One-handed

[RogueGunslinger]

Was any though put into the idea of implementing a one-handed skill, like dual-wield, and two-handed? I know it's been discussed before.

[Clearsighted]

There is. It's called 'shield use'.

[RogueGunslinger]

And if one doesn't want to use a shield? I'm sure there are many styles of weapon play that involve an open hand.

[Jingo]

If you want to have a one-handed style I figure you can just two-hand it. And maybe just emote grappling or something with your free hand.

[RogueGunslinger]

If you want to have a one-handed style I figure you can just two-hand it. And maybe just emote grappling or something with your free hand.

And if my character is one-armed?

Heh, stretching a bit here, but it seems like a simple code addition.

[Jingo]

If you want to have a one-handed style I figure you can just two-hand it. And maybe just emote grappling or something with your free hand.

And if my character is one-armed?

Heh, stretching a bit here, but it seems like a simple code addition.

*shrug* I dunno.

[Marauder Moe]

I thought I read somewhere that the code does account for fighting with one free hand.

EDIT: but the only official word a quick search resulted in was here: http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,4367.0.html

I may be imagining things again, heh.

[Clearsighted]

If you want to have a one-handed style I figure you can just two-hand it. And maybe just emote grappling or something with your free hand.

And if my character is one-armed?

Heh, stretching a bit here, but it seems like a simple code addition.

One armed people should be a disadvantage when participating in melee combat. And I don't think even emoting as wielding a sword in one hand when actually etwoing it is kosher, since it increases your damage enormously.

[X-D]

Single weapon no shield already has certain advantages and disadvantages...same as any other style.

[RogueGunslinger]

Benefits that can be compared to a leveling skill? If so then rock on.

[SMuz]

I think, by default, the weapon skill itself accounts for single-weapon use. My character is quite proficient in using a single weapon, but dual wielding it is very difficult for him.

[Good Gortok]

Having experimented extensively with one-handed combat with an empty left hand, I made the following observations:

> It appears to be slightly easier to hit a target when using just one weapon and an empty off-hand

> The damage per hit appears to be the same

> Defense seems worse because you get no bonus from dual-wield or, obviously, a shield

> You will never beat an opponent who uses a shield, two weapons or a two-handed weapons if all else is equal

> You do not get any kind of bonus attack or utility with your off-hand

> You are fucked if you get disarmed


I can see one-handed combat being remotely useful if you really need to land just one hit on a superior opponent, such as if you need to poison them. Other than that, there's no advantage.


There doesn't need to be a specific skill for single-handed combat, the weapon skill itself servers that purpose. I don't really think it should be better than other styles in the hands of a skilled combatant, but I feel that it should have a significant edge over unskilled dual-wielders, and perhaps provide the best defense short of using a shield. That doesn't seem to be the case.

[SMuz]

I've tried it. It has better much better defense than two-handed. Defense is certainly lower than weapon + shield.

IMHO, it's what it should be. Just like unarmed combat is worse than weapon combat. People in real life never went to battle using only a single sword. It's always been either two weapons, a big-ass weapon, or a weapon and a shield.

No, waitl, historically, there are some examples, like the Southeast Asian warriors who fought with only a dagger and empty hand, but those warriors would rely more on martial arts. It'd be nice if you could also punch when wielding a single weapon (like you can with a shield). And if having a hand free greatly increases your chance for disarming and bashing.

[Clearsighted]

I've tried it. It has better much better defense than two-handed. Defense is certainly lower than weapon + shield.

IMHO, it's what it should be. Just like unarmed combat is worse than weapon combat. People in real life never went to battle using only a single sword. It's always been either two weapons, a big-ass weapon, or a weapon and a shield.

No, waitl, historically, there are some examples, like the Southeast Asian warriors who fought with only a dagger and empty hand, but those warriors would rely more on martial arts. It'd be nice if you could also punch when wielding a single weapon (like you can with a shield). And if having a hand free greatly increases your chance for disarming and bashing.

Actually, for whatever reason, defense is higher with the two-handed style. Moreso than even weapon + shield, actually. Except with shield, you get the added chance to block. So it seems more defensive.

Fighting one-handed is basically for sparring. It doesn't need anything special added to it. Not every whacky thing should be as viable as everything else. And there are in fact, a couple rare situations where fighting one-handed is actually necessary (depending), as X-D mentioned.

I like combat how it is, currently.

[HTX]

IMHO, it's what it should be. Just like unarmed combat is worse than weapon combat. People in real life never went to battle using only a single sword. It's always been either two weapons, a big-ass weapon, or a weapon and a shield.

You sure about that? I've always been under the impression that dual wielding in real life is clumsy and awkward, and a single-handed fighting style was more common than dual wielding.

[Majikal]

IMHO, it's what it should be. Just like unarmed combat is worse than weapon combat. People in real life never went to battle using only a single sword. It's always been either two weapons, a big-ass weapon, or a weapon and a shield.

You sure about that? I've always been under the impression that dual wielding in real life is clumsy and awkward, and a single-handed fighting style was more common than dual wielding.

Dual wielding is definitely the least common of all those fighting styles, except in hollywood.

Or arm.

[RogueGunslinger]

Whew, I'm so glad someone else came in here and said that.

[SMuz]

Nope, they've been a lot of real warriors who use dual weapons. Not infantry, definitely, but check out some RL bandits and rebels, especially the ones in the China, Japanese regions. See some armed martial arts too. But then again, a lot of those guys are almost mythical, like Miyamoto Musashi and a few Chinese bandits. And for some reason, the Southeast Asian warriors, who actually used real parrying daggers, didn't actually dual-wield, even though they carried a few daggers with them into battle.

Infantry have almost always relied on shields, polearms, or even a large axe or sword. The only one-handed weapon infantry I know of are the Southeast Asian ones, but mostly because they need the spare hand for grabbing, disarming, deflecting, etc. They also did suck horribly in battle with the Europeans though, who conquered an entire city-state with only a few ships full of men

Modern policemen do use single weapons, as do serial killers. But they don't train in it exclusively.

But back to the original point, people to practice up dual-weapons and get better at it, if only in the same way that person gets better at juggling.
People practice shield + weapon and get better in the style.
People practice wielding a weapon in two hands and get better in the style.
Mastering a single weapon? Most people who do get good in a single weapon are actually better with a shield in the other hand, unless it's to use the free hand to pull off a disarm attempt, a knockdown, or for more flexibility in dodging. And the code supports that quite well. You could actually play the game quite well with only a single weapon, if that's what you want

[Bluefae]

     For those with interest in some real-life "dual wielding" techniques, here are some links:

     Not the best article, but it conveys the basics - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskrima  I've worked with this sporadically over the years, and it's really surprisingly easy to pick up, even with using both hands.  The core techniques have a very nice intuitive flow, at least to me.

     And from Europe - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_school_of_swordsmanship  Some of the combinations discovered in 16th century manuals are quite interesting.  ("Sword and cape" anyone?) 

     Of course, neither of the above developed in a vacuum, and so aren't necessarily applicable to the game.  For example, a rapier's a fine weapon for dueling, but not necessarily on a field of mass combat, nor was it employed against heavy armor with much success.  One of the oddities of Arm. is that a vast array of weapons and armor all happily co-exist alongside one another, mixing and matching from almost the entire breadth of human melee combat history (a "crude bone club" all the way to the masterpieces that Salarr might produce); off the top of my head, I can't think of a real-world analog to this state of affairs.  Even Europe didn't historically exhibit the entire range that exists in the game at any one time.
     Although, pegging the "tech level" of Zalanthas is quite complicated, so maybe this does make sense.  It certainly makes the game more interesting. 

[RogueGunslinger]

Nope, they've been a lot of real warriors who use dual weapons. Not infantry, definitely, but check out some RL bandits and rebels, especially the ones in the China, Japanese regions. See some armed martial arts too. But then again, a lot of those guys are almost mythical, like Miyamoto Musashi and a few Chinese bandits. And for some reason, the Southeast Asian warriors, who actually used real parrying daggers, didn't actually dual-wield, even though they carried a few daggers with them into battle.

Infantry have almost always relied on shields, polearms, or even a large axe or sword. The only one-handed weapon infantry I know of are the Southeast Asian ones, but mostly because they need the spare hand for grabbing, disarming, deflecting, etc. They also did suck horribly in battle with the Europeans though, who conquered an entire city-state with only a few ships full of men

Modern policemen do use single weapons, as do serial killers. But they don't train in it exclusively.

But back to the original point, people to practice up dual-weapons and get better at it, if only in the same way that person gets better at juggling.
People practice shield + weapon and get better in the style.
People practice wielding a weapon in two hands and get better in the style.
Mastering a single weapon? Most people who do get good in a single weapon are actually better with a shield in the other hand, unless it's to use the free hand to pull off a disarm attempt, a knockdown, or for more flexibility in dodging. And the code supports that quite well. You could actually play the game quite well with only a single weapon, if that's what you want

Certainly there' a reason fencing, and swashbuckling exist, right?

[Krath]

What X-D Said

[RogueGunslinger]

"Something like this is in place, just not in any way we can tell you about" Leaves such a bitter taste in my mouth. But I understand.

[Cavaticus]

Certainly there' a reason fencing, and swashbuckling exist, right?

I think your swashbuckling fighting styles evolved because a free hand was super important on a pitching and rolling ship. But even in the age of the rapier and sabre, a parrying dagger or main gauche was generally preferable to a free hand.

[Qzzrbl]

Even so, free-handed swordsmen were in no way inferior to shield-users, dual-wielders, or two-handers.

There's no reason one weapon freehand shouldn't have a weapon skill.

The same could be said for unarmed, but I suppose these will be taken into account for Reborn.

[Good Gortok]

The weapon skill itself suffices for one-handed combat. There are separate skills for each other style (dual wield, shield, two-handed) and all the current system may need, if one agrees that changes are necessary, are some adjustments to the coded bonuses when not employing one of the three distinctive styles. I'd like to see a noticeable dodge bonus.