Player Retention: What the DATA shows

[Gimfalisette]

I'd like to invite y'all to look for a moment, with me, at ARM as if it were a business. Businesses live and die on their ability to do a fairly short list of basic things, which includes:

-- Find and attract prospects (marketing)
-- Convert prospects into customers (sales)
-- Retain existing customers (customer service)

A business which cannot do all of the above tasks will not grow, due to simple math; making new customers + keeping existing customers = growth over time. If a business is not growing, then it is failing at one or more of the above tasks. The basic question here is, "What is our month-to-month growth rate?" If it is weak, stagnant, or negative...there is a problem.

In business, data analysis is the tool used to determine which of these tasks the organization is screwing up. There are a few key variables which need to be looked at, but it's pretty simple, overall. Questions include:

-- How many inquiries did we get during X time period from new prospects? (This could be a phone call, a walk-in, or an email / webform inquiry.)
-- During that time period, how many prospects converted to customers? (Usually this means purchased something.)
-- During that time period, how many existing customers stopped being customers? (Sometimes a little harder to measure, but it could be things like didn't renew a subscription, opted out of emails, didn't repeat-buy.)

My contention that ARM has a problem with player retention is based on the data; on the facts which are publicly published and to which you all have access. ARM's month-to-month growth rate is extremely weak; so weak that, from a business perspective, it could be called stagnant, and at times in the last 3 years it's actually been negative. Here is the relevant, accessible data on player retention:

-- Prior to The Announcement in November 2006, unique players per week ran in the 340 range.
-- Post-Announcement, unique players per week dipped down to as low as the 220 range around May 2007. That is a 35% reduction in the size of the playerbase.
-- Since May 2007, the unique player per week count has slowly crawled back up into the 270 range, current. This is still 20% below where we were, 2.5 years on. That's a recovery of only 15% in 20 months, an average of less than 1% growth per month. To be really concrete, we're only gaining a NET of 2 to 3 players per month. (New players coming in - veterans leaving = net new players.)
-- We get in the range of 100 to 150 new player accounts per month, based on data published last year. These folks are our prospective new players, and we are only converting them to actual players at a rate of about 2% minimum to probably 5% maximum. (Unfortunately I don't have access to data on veterans leaving which would allow me to calculate our actual maximum prospect conversion rate.) This, from a business perspective, is horrendous suck. Typically, businesses are looking for conversion rates in the 20 to 60% range, in my experience.
-- My conservative, educated guess at our rate of loss of veteran players, based on the above data, is that we are losing probably 1% of the existing playerbase per month; 2 to 3 veteran players. Now, if we are actually converting new players at a higher rate than I think we are, then we may be also losing veterans at a higher rate; it's impossible for me to know without the data. So take this guess as conservative.

Really?   Really.


Because I see a whole forum board full of pretty fucking dedicated players.


And I see a whole game full of pretty fucking dedicated players.


And I see a whole lot of people not fucking leaving.


Two drops of water does not a sinking ship make.


I can think of several recent additions to our game who are more than making a mark, including the legendary Amandagreathouse and the uncanny and awesome Musashi.  This isn't even counting the Staggerlees or the Alicedavignons of our little world.


And if there's this huge exodus of players, how is it that our numbers remain, hmm, pretty consistent?  Fifty to sixty people on average at peak times during school... yeah, gosh, sounds like it's pretty much the same as it's been for the last several years.

People come, and people go, and then people come back.

You can rant at me all you like about the topic, but it doesn't change the relevant data. I don't base my opinions on one or two players announcing that they've quit, either; I base it on the numbers which by trade and experience I'm qualified to interpret. Now, perhaps you don't see negative and stagnant growth as a problem; that's a different question entirely. Personally, I see our current growth rate as a big problem, and a focus on both converting prospective players AND retaining veteran players as the logical solution.

[mansa]

I'm trying, gimf momma.  I'm trying to help the problem.
See link in my signature.

[Adhira]

While player retention is important to us as staff and we do consider player base numbers as one of the signs that we're doing a decent job I would offer that growth of the playerbase is not the only way to mark Armageddon as successful.

I also argue that the business model you presented is not the only model that is used to measure success. I have been employed in businesses where we had to actively monitor subscription to our programs and services, and maintaining the numbers was our measurement of success, rather than increasing beyond what we had set as the capacity limit for the program based on a number of criteria. Growth is a common measurement but there are many organisations for which this is a lesser concern.

So while I can agree with your data, I do not agree with your overall analysis. I believe that as staff and players we need to work to create an environment that both attracts and retains players. However, I do not believe that every person who plays this game will find it to their liking, or that they will always play it. People move on for a variety of reasons, and peoples perceptions change over time as well.

The loss of veteran players is not new, in my opinion the loss of veteran players has been steady ever since I joined staff, and indeed since I started playing the game. Therefore I am not alarmed by recent losses as I see no noticeable changed in patterns. I believe that 2 -3 per month leaving would be an overestimation also, but I don't have the data on that to back up the statement, just my general observation.

In saying that, while I'm not alarmed by the losses I would like our playerbase to be larger on the whole.  There are definitely areas that could use improvement, specifically marketing and public relations, but also in how we manage the gameplay.

However, I feel that we do a decent job attracting and retaining a reasonable number of players for a considerable length of time, given what this game is - a niche market with a volunteer staff.

[Bluefae]

     Gimf, thank you for posting this well-reasoned and lucid break-down of the situation.  On a personal level, I'm always out "casting the net" to get more folks into our little madhouse.  Having enjoyed your GDB presence for some time now, I'd be surprised if you didn't have some possible answers rattling around.  Care to share?

[brytta.leofa]

Does Arm have a capacity limit?  If so, are we near it?

Strikes me that we could probably double most clans' enrollment without especially stretching leadership or staff...but I've never worked at either myself.

[Rahnevyn]

I'm going to come down in the middle on this. I definitely want to see us grow more faster, and I'd like to foster more of a community feeling in the game than we have now, which I think will help that. We could do a better job marketing ourselves, we could certainly update our help resources, and we could overhaul our website. All of that would probably help attraction and newbie retention, which may be our biggest problems. We need to set realistic goals for ourselves, and find out what metrics to judge ourselves by, too. Not everyone who makes an account makes a character; lots of people realise we have a long, involved application system and simply turn away. Knowing this, what goal should we set for new player account retention? 5%, 10%? We need to know how many new accounts get past their first approval, which is data we don't have handy at the moment.

Veteran retention is another animal entirely. I will quote one of my idols of game design, Dr. Richard Bartle, from his book Designing Virtual Worlds:

Contrary to what many players and some community managers believe, most established players do not leave after blazing, public rows. Most of them simply disconnect and drift away. Players who complain the loudest care the most; they're complaining because they see faults that they perceive as a threat to their world and their community, so of course they're not going to leave! They may threaten to leave, and may even act on that threat, but in most cases they're back within two weeks if they do. No, most player - the "silent majority" - simply drift away without a word. They appear less and less frequently, until eventually they don't appear at all.

So with all apologies to anyone who's left recently (I hope you come back!), I don't think anyone should be too worried or take anything recent as a trend to be afraid of. Veteran drift happens constantly and quietly, and needs to be accepted. Bartle goes on to say that the best way to prevent it is to form a solid player community to keep people around, which we have to some degree (we have plenty of former players who still stick around on the GDB an don't play, for example.) We can definitely do better, and we should. But as the numbers suggest, our playerbase is slowly gaining, not diminishing. If we start hitting sustained negative player growth, I'd be much more worried.

[Gimfalisette]

In saying that, while I'm not alarmed by the losses I would like our playerbase to be larger on the whole.  There are definitely areas that could use improvement, specifically marketing and public relations, but also in how we manage the gameplay.

However, I feel that we do a decent job attracting and retaining a reasonable number of players for a considerable length of time, given what this game is - a niche market with a volunteer staff.

If you (general you) want the playerbase to be larger on the whole, then attention needs to be paid both to conversion of prospective players, and retention of veteran players. Veteran players help maintain the quality of ARM; many players I've spoken to about growth are afraid of the specter of "too many newbies flooding in and diluting the awesome." If there are not active efforts to retain and engage veteran players, then growth may be a positive in the numbers sense but a negative in the quality sense.

We do a decent job of attracting players for really putting no attention to it at all, yes. But we have here a staff and playerbase FULL of talent and experience which could be applied to this problem. We are certainly a niche market, but I'm fairly sure that we aren't reaching anywhere near our market potential.

     Gimf, thank you for posting this well-reasoned and lucid break-down of the situation.  On a personal level, I'm always out "casting the net" to get more folks into our little madhouse.  Having enjoyed your GDB presence for some time now, I'd be surprised if you didn't have some possible answers rattling around.  Care to share?

I think there are lots of possibilities. Examples of things that could be done:

-- Targeted marketing campaigns to attract a higher number of looks at the website and new accounts.
-- Organized word-of-mouth campaigns wherein staff engages current/vet players to actively bring in new accounts. There could possibly even be out-of-game recognition or prizes, if that doesn't break our licensing and whatnot.
-- Promotion of the game's current overarching plots (the kind with staff oversight) as marketing fodder. Would have to be vague enough to not be totally spilling IC information, but it would help answer the "what am I supposed to do?" question for newbies if they know something is going on NOW.
-- More prominent promotion of the helper system to get newbies hooked up right away.
-- Website redesign which focuses on converting, educating, and involving new players.
-- A newbie school in the game--perhaps even just a room or two with scripted NPCs and other help.
-- A newbie help channel in the game. Yes, Morg says this will be in for 2.ARM, but that's in the distant and undefined future somewhere.
-- More emphasis on apped leaders being available to recruit and involve newbies. This could even be an agreement in taking on certain roles like Byn Sarge, or agent for Kadius / Salarr / Kurac. Easy to quantify, too. This also gives veteran players a way to feel they are contributing.
-- A new focus on how to challenge veteran players; how can staff listen to them more effectively, work with vets as partners for the good of the game, help vets improve their RP, help vets contribute to the game in tangible and intangible ways? What I'm suggesting is that there should be -something- between "newbie" and "staff member." Currently there is almost nothing.

Veteran drift happens constantly and quietly, and needs to be accepted. Bartle goes on to say that the best way to prevent it is to form a solid player community to keep people around, which we have to some degree (we have plenty of former players who still stick around on the GDB an don't play, for example.) We can definitely do better, and we should. But as the numbers suggest, our playerbase is slowly gaining, not diminishing. If we start hitting sustained negative player growth, I'd be much more worried.

I just don't agree that veteran drift "needs to be accepted." Analogy: If I choose to eat the Standard American Diet which is high in simple carbs and low in veggies, then I may "need to accept" that I'll get fat and probably develop diabetes and heart disease. But guess what, I don't have to eat the Standard American Diet, so I don't have to accept its consequences.

I see here a belief that the loss of veteran players is simply benign and inevitable; but unless you can show me the data that supports your claim, I have to say you don't know why you are losing veteran players. And if you don't know why you're losing vets, then you don't know whether anything can be done about it, and you don't know whether it "needs to be accepted."

[Tisiphone]

I don't have much to say on this topic except that Armageddon is one of those unique models, being based more around a community than a product, for which veteran retention is extremely important. I understand veteran drift is constant and not at any particular high point, but I still would like to see some thought go into how the trend can be changed.

[Gimfalisette]

     Gimf, thank you for posting this well-reasoned and lucid break-down of the situation.  On a personal level, I'm always out "casting the net" to get more folks into our little madhouse.  Having enjoyed your GDB presence for some time now, I'd be surprised if you didn't have some possible answers rattling around.  Care to share?

A note: I think what's most important, if player conversion/retention is seen to be a problem that needs to be solved, is not any particular solution but rather simply working through solutions, based on the data. Some solutions may not work, or may not work profitably enough compared to the quantity of effort they require. That is OK; those solutions can be dropped and new solutions can be tried. In marketing, if you spend $1000 on one solution and you only get two new customers, but you spend $500 on a different solution and get 10 new customers, then you're going to pick what's most effective.

That's what the staff and engaged playerbase should do here; use experimentation and the numbers to determine which strategies are most effective, and then do those things.

[Zoan]

Ohgod, Tizzle's joined in. This thread's doomed. Just watch words like 'concatenate' start getting hurled about between the two girls.

[Adhira]

By no means are we stating that the loss of all veteran players is 'benign and inevitable'. However, what we are stating is that the majority of veteran players we lose are those ones that Bartle has alluded to - the disconnect and drift away. Many of the players I've seen post on the GDB that they are leaving are ones such of these. In fact, often times someone will be leaving who has only being playing sporadically over a period of months or years, yet has remained active within the community and the GDB.

I am well aware that veteran players are those that add the flavor and value to the game, but I would say that sometimes those newbies are the ones doing a better job of it than the veterans. What you have managed to pinpoint is what I think is a true criteria for Armageddon, that of quality. I've seen many veterans leave, and I see other newer players coming up, like yourself, who have helped to keep the quality of roleplay.

[Gimfalisette]

By no means are we stating that the loss of all veteran players is 'benign and inevitable'. However, what we are stating is that the majority of veteran players we lose are those ones that Bartle has alluded to - the disconnect and drift away.

But you don't know that this is the cause of veteran players leaving unless you have actually culled and analyzed the data, which would necessarily include exit surveys with those leaving. Simply observing that veteran players do leave does not tell you why they are leaving. WHY do veteran players drift? And once that is known, does staff want to do anything about those causes?

[Reiloth]

Armageddon is a niche community. I would prefer that it stay that way.

Seeing all this marketing mumbo makes my head spin and hurt. Then again I -am- still drunk.

And I think we all know why Veteran players drift. They move on. They grow tired of the same staff telling them no to all of their ideas, or they grow some paranoid second head that tells them the staff are out to get them and know where they live. Seriously -- You would be surprised how true the latter statement is.

I have been frustrated more often than appreciative of what some veteran players have to say about the direction of Armageddon, as it turns out to be a cyclical commentary on personal vendettas made by the staff against the players, which I find both vain and groundless. The staff is -not- out to get you. It is not up to one staff member to answer your question, or allow you to build that building, or give you the sword of awesome when you complete your quest and get 140 experience points. They are a team, and they make decisions together. That is why decisions take a while to reach a verdict on. That is why your email has gone unanswered for a week. It isn't laziness, or the staff forgetting about it.

Veteran players are leaving because they think the game world should revolve around their characters, and their ideas, rather than working with the staff to involve the playerbase on a much less specific level. That is my opinion. Rip it to shreds if you like.

[Marauder Moe]

I know why we lose veteran players...

1) Armageddon is a very involved hobby for many.  As people mature over the years (get out of school, get a job, get a family) their lifestyle no longer supports what they feel is a sufficient amount of time to play the game.

2) For some people, game content can be consumed faster than it's created.  There are plenty of people who have simply done it all.  Played every guild, every city, every clan.

3) They are driven away by the few ways the game does change (or is perceived to have changed).  Those who left after the Arm Reborn announcement are part of this category.

4) They join staff (and the staff has their own retention issues I'm sure).

Sorry Gimf, I'm with Dr. Bartle on this one.  No game can expect to ever have a 100% veteran player retention rate, and as far as MUDs and MMOs go, I think Arm is doing pretty well in that regard.

I believe that we have more room for improvement on the newbie retention and even just getting characters created than we do on keeping the old veterans around.


To throw out a suggestion that hasn't been mentioned (on this thread yet), I support letting new accounts use a random character generator for their first character or two.  The one that's been talked about lately is pretty good (but we probably want to tone down the backgrounds and personalities a bit).

[staggerlee]

I see here a belief that the loss of veteran players is simply benign and inevitable; but unless you can show me the data that supports your claim, I have to say you don't know why you are losing veteran players. And if you don't know why you're losing vets, then you don't know whether anything can be done about it, and you don't know whether it "needs to be accepted."

I definitely feel with the kind of intensity and focus that most people approach Arm, it's inevitable, even desirable that they eventually stumble away and rediscover the world.

The kind of playtimes people put into the game are unsustainable, and if the game expects or encourages that kind of commitment then it is inevitable that relationships, hobbies and health will suffer until most feel they have to choose between the game and their life.

It's just a minor point, but probably important to recognize. I really don't see that it's reasonable to expect people to play four plus hours a night and never leave.  I suspect that a lot of older veterans leave and come back, or find ways to maintain a more casual relationship with the game.

[mattrious]

I believe what makes Armageddon great? The players. Sure, we are fortunate that we have a wonderful staff that volunteers countless hours to make the game enjoyable for all of us. Though, what would that staff be if there were no players to spin plots for, etc?

The staff? They all came from the player base. This is why it is crucially important that we continue to try and broaden our vision and horizon. I think we should increase the marketing and the different venues in which we advertise at/on. I'm not sure if this is still true but I believe the staff actually use to set up a booth at Dragoncon? MMORPG's are a HUGE hit and people love them? Sure, they're graphically charged, etc. But, where did they come from? Look down the family tree and you'll find the mudding community. That is why I think we should go after player niches that are into MMORPG's and the like. Sure we do not have the graphics, but we have the community and we're free.

I think it would be a good idea to start advertising on these sites that have attracted the individuals who play WoW, EQ, DAoC, AoC, Darkfall, etc. You say that this is not the type of player we want? Well, I'm sure we can help get them to the level the rest of us are at in regards to game play and role play, our staff are competent and trustworthy individuals.

[Lakota]

Armageddon is a niche community. I would prefer that it stay that way

Let word of mouth lead the charge. I only invite people I know would be interested or are capable of roleplay on a consistent basis.

Let's be frank:

1) Some veterans leave because the game gets boring to them.

2) Some veterans leave because they cannot devote the time to the game anymore.

3) Some players simply move on to other things in life. They get jobs, lives, significant others, and babies.

4) Some players (for whatever reason) become jaded with their time at ArmageddonMUD, either because they are not progressing as a player, or because they feel cheated or wronged by staff.

We can do nothing about #2 or #3 - people come and go, and no amount of marketing-blitz campaigns or data-crunches will change that. Eventually, #2 and #3 may even come back once time permits.

The only things we can really affect would be #1 and #4. How? By excelling as players and staff, naturally.

Push more plots, both mundane and magickal. Players have a big part in this, but can only do so much. Encourage staff members to step up and begin penning new plots that slowly push Zalanthas towards 2.0.

How? Bring back that badass muthafuckin' world ending plot. You know, the one that had Zalanthas rockin' for about four months straight without a breather? Create a new arc and take the plot sideways (a sidestory, of sorts) that allows for time for 2.0 to be ready before shifting back into drive once more. Have overarching plots, themes, characters, and stories. Allow old merchant houses to succeed or fail/live or die (yes, even the mighty, invincible Kurac).

Give us players the chance to change things - to REALLY change things, and affect the outcome of the world as the first iteration of this MUD slowly winds down.

Will elves survive in some form or fashion on into 2.0? Who knows, it's (should be) possible! They won't be playable most likely, but perhaps they can survive on as a small npc tribe?

Want Kurac, any of the GMH, or noble houses, or the Byn, mayhaps, to survive in history, if not the flesh? Begin penning texts that can be brought over to 2.0 and serve as ancient tomes.

The list goes on, and on, and on. We as players and staff can do so much to retain veterans in the ways mentioned above, but we have to start by giving a damn about keeping them. I guarantee you players will not stay if they are bored. In response, give them something to do. Not all players are magnets that draw plots and player-characters around them. Some need little pushes, or need to be led gently, or with a kick to the ass, in the right direction.

So let's do it. Let's have two staff members volunteer to create two plots. Both of you: author the plots apart from one another. Do not even -speak- to one another about your plot. Rather, let events unfold as they may in game, and let the plots naturally meld and arc over one another. In turn we will have amazing consequences, with outcomes deemed good or bad, depending on who lived and died.

I've offered but a fraction of ideas as to what we can do to retain veterans. There's plenty more we can do. We just need to focus on making the game fun, and focus on keeping it that way.

[mattrious]

Armageddon is a niche community. I would prefer that it stay that way

Let word of mouth lead the charge. I only invite people I know would be interested or are capable of roleplay on a consistent basis.

Let's be frank:

1) Some veterans leave because the game gets boring to them.

2) Some veterans leave because they cannot devote the time to the game anymore.

3) Some players simply move on to other things in life. They get jobs, lives, significant others, and babies.

4) Some players (for whatever reason) become jaded with their time at ArmageddonMUD, either because they are not progressing as a player, or because they feel cheated or wronged by staff.

We can do nothing about #2 or #3 - people come and go, and no amount of marketing-blitz campaigns or data-crunches will change that. Eventually, #2 and #3 may even come back once time permits.

The only things we can really affect would be #1 and #4. How? By excelling as players and staff, naturally.

Push more plots, both mundane and magickal. Players have a big part in this, but can only do so much. Encourage staff members to step up and begin penning new plots that slowly push Zalanthas towards 2.0.

How? Bring back that badass muthafuckin' world ending plot. You know, the one that had Zalanthas rockin' for about four months straight without a breather? Create a new arc and take the plot sideways (a sidestory, of sorts) that allows for time for 2.0 to be ready before shifting back into drive once more. Have overarching plots, themes, characters, and stories. Allow old merchant houses to succeed or fail/live or die (yes, even the mighty, invincible Kurac).

Give us players the chance to change things - to REALLY change things, and affect the outcome of the world as the first iteration of this MUD slowly winds down.

Will elves survive in some form or fashion on into 2.0? Who knows, it's (should be) possible! They won't be playable most likely, but perhaps they can survive on as a small npc tribe?

Want Kurac, any of the GMH, or noble houses, or the Byn, mayhaps, to survive in history, if not the flesh? Begin penning texts that can be brought over to 2.0 and serve as ancient tomes.

The list goes on, and on, and on. We as players and staff can do so much to retain veterans in the ways mentioned above, but we have to start by giving a damn about keeping them. I guarantee you players will not stay if they are bored. In response, give them something to do. Not all players are magnets that draw plots and player-characters around them. Some need little pushes, or need to be led gently, or with a kick to the ass, in the right direction.

So let's do it. Let's have two staff members volunteer to create two plots. Both of you: author the plots apart from one another. Do not even -speak- to one another about your plot. Rather, let events unfold as they may in game, and let the plots naturally meld and arc over one another. In turn we will have amazing consequences, with outcomes deemed good or bad, depending on who lived and died.

I've offered but a fraction of ideas as to what we can do to retain veterans. There's plenty more we can do. We just need to focus on making the game fun, and focus on keeping it that way.

This.

[Rahnevyn]

We do a decent job of attracting players for really putting no attention to it at all, yes. But we have here a staff and playerbase FULL of talent and experience which could be applied to this problem. We are certainly a niche market, but I'm fairly sure that we aren't reaching anywhere near our market potential.

Agreed, and that's where we should focus.

I just don't agree that veteran drift "needs to be accepted." ... I see here a belief that the loss of veteran players is simply benign and inevitable; but unless you can show me the data that supports your claim, I have to say you don't know why you are losing veteran players. And if you don't know why you're losing vets, then you don't know whether anything can be done about it, and you don't know whether it "needs to be accepted."

First, I'll definitely recommend anyone interested in the designer/administrator side of this grab a copy of the book I quoted and read Chapter 3, pages 212-245. That's the perspective I'm seeing this from and by and large I think it's spot on.

I can't give you specific reasons why players leave, because those  likely vary as widely as our players do. Some players may be losing interest in the game - either they've played everything they wanted to try and nothing feels new and exciting anymore, or they've found other games that attract them more, or after some time playing they've discovered Armageddon just isn't right for them. Other veteran players leave quietly because of real life issues; school, jobs, kids, etc.This has always been going on, and while we can address some of those factors, we can't completely mitigate them short of forcing everyone to keep playing even when unhappy.

I can, however, theorize that experienced players are not leaving in unusual numbers because of a single reason or even a small number of reasons -- if there was a mass exodus going on born by one thing, we'd have heard about it. (The drop after the Armageddon 2 announcement is an example of a large exodus based around one thing.) We haven't seen that since, which leads me to believe by and large, whatever drift is occuring is due to the "normal reasons" -- i.e., the same reasons people have been leaving our game and other games throughout the history of virtual worlds.

This side of the coin is a lot trickier to define than newbie attraction/retention. How do we define a "veteran"? Is it someone who's played for six months, a year, two years, five, or ten? Should we determine it by how visible a player has been or what roles they've played? How do you determine when someone has left? Unlike commercial games we have no subscriptions for people to cancel. If a player logs in once a week after formerly playing every day, have they "left?" What about once a month? What about players who haven't played seriously in a while but still read the GDB?

Ultimately yes, this is an issue we can better work to address. We can work to build a better community to retain players, and we can work to better involve players in the direction of the game. I recognize that and I'm sure other staff do as well. But yes, the fact that some people are going to leave the game does simply need to be accepted, as with any business. 0% drift is an admirable bar to reach for, but we'll never get there. In terms of effort versus payoff, I see far more problems with, and opportunities to improve on, our marketing, PR, and help resources. Unless we notice and identify a few single issues people are leaving that we can address - and again, right now, I haven't seen evidence of any - there isn't much we can effectively do short of chasing down every individual player who wants to leave and enticing them to stay on a case by case basis.

[LoD]

If we are going to discuss player retention, and I'll focus on veteran player retention here, then it's important to address the many reasons why people may stop playing Armageddon and discern whether or not there's even a path of correction, or whether it's out of our hands.

Real Life Changes

I would place this in the uncontrollable category, meaning that I don't feel that any of these reasons could be combated by marketing ploys, game features, or community hooks.

• Change to a person's availability (i.e work schedule, school schedule, incarceration)
• Change in family status (i.e. marriage, divorce, birth, death)
• Change in focus (i.e. focusing on career, family, or personal goals)

Competition

I would place this in the controllable category.

• Competition from more visual games (i.e. MMO's, PC Single Player)
• Competition from more friend-based games (i.e. Sports, Cooperative Console or PC Games)
• Competition from other MUDs that offer them an experience or range of features that they cannot, or will not, find in Armageddon.

Frustration

I would place this in the partially controllable category.

• Frustration from playing off peak and being unable to participate in enough events to warrant the time spent
• Frustration from conflicting personalities (i.e. Staff-Staff, Staff-Player, Player-Player relations)
• Frustration from unpopular game or policy decisions (i.e. Magicker changes, proposed cat race for Arm Reborn, code change that affect a favorite class or race, etc...)
• frustration from being unsuccessful in achieving some goal or experience that was the entire reason for which that person played (i.e. creating a specific desert elf clan that eventually gets closed, enjoying the code before changes to sneak/hide/watch, perceived objection to their goals or actions by clan Imms, etc...)
• Frustration from the handling of an event, decision, or request that adversely impacts or disallows a project into which a player had poured days, months, or years worth of work.

Complacency

I would place this in the controllable category.

• The world becomes less magickal and smaller because you have learned (ICly or otherwise) many of the mysteries the world has to offer.
• What you truly want most (i.e. classless system, dynamically changing game world, 100% PC-run plots) is not easily achievable despite any of your efforts.
• The character concepts you're having don't seem to feel as fresh or fit into the world in the way they once did, and you find yourself making replicas of the same type over and over.

The next step would be to refine this list and then analyze how each of the reasons we consider "controllable" could be lessened, combated, or completely negated.

-LoD

[Synthesis]

I see here a belief that the loss of veteran players is simply benign and inevitable; but unless you can show me the data that supports your claim, I have to say you don't know why you are losing veteran players. And if you don't know why you're losing vets, then you don't know whether anything can be done about it, and you don't know whether it "needs to be accepted."

I definitely feel with the kind of intensity and focus that most people approach Arm, it's inevitable, even desirable that they eventually stumble away and rediscover the world.

The kind of playtimes people put into the game are unsustainable, and if the game expects or encourages that kind of commitment then it is inevitable that relationships, hobbies and health will suffer until most feel they have to choose between the game and their life.

It's just a minor point, but probably important to recognize. I really don't see that it's reasonable to expect people to play four plus hours a night and never leave.  I suspect that a lot of older veterans leave and come back, or find ways to maintain a more casual relationship with the game.

This right here is why I hardly bother playing the game unless I've come up with an idea that I think is totally awesome/intriguing/etc.  When those characters die, it's starting to take longer and longer to dream up/get interested in something else.  I think my last hiatus was around 3 months or so.  But yeah, I can't justify spending 4+ hours a day on some random Amos the Ranger or Malik the 'rinther, unless it's to roll up a family/tribe member to hang out with someone I know.  Apologies for spamming up the special application queue (relatively), but at this point it's the only thing that keeps me interested in the game, because I've pretty much exhausted the possibilities of the regular application process. However, I'm an achiever/explorer (or whatever those archetypes are) on that Bartle thingamawhooie, so that probably accounts for my particular outlook.

[Gimfalisette]

But yes, the fact that some people are going to leave the game does simply need to be accepted, as with any business. 0% drift is an admirable bar to reach for, but we'll never get there. In terms of effort versus payoff, I see far more problems with, and opportunities to improve on, our marketing, PR, and help resources. Unless we notice and identify a few single issues people are leaving that we can address - and again, right now, I haven't seen evidence of any - there isn't much we can effectively do short of chasing down every individual player who wants to leave and enticing them to stay on a case by case basis.

I never said that we could achieve 0% player loss over time, so I'm not sure why you're kind of putting those words in my mouth. What I've said, mostly, is that:

-- We don't even actually know how many veteran players we're losing over time. I made a guess, but it's based on assumptions, not full data, as I said.
-- We don't know the causes of losing those veteran players. Everyone seems to have guesses, feelings, beliefs, suspicions, opinions, etc. about this; but that's not the same as knowing.

People's lists of reasons and so on are all well and good, but they're just lists of possible reasons without any weight to the reasons; beginning points for exploration of the data, they are not the data itself.

Businesses that want to improve employee retention do exit interviews to find out why employees are leaving. Or if they want to improve customer retention, they do surveys. None of these things are rocket science, even the definitions such as "what is a veteran player?"; things simply need to be defined somehow, then the definitions are used as a basis for further exploration of the questions.

[Synthesis]

Ha, I wonder if it would be to obnoxious to develop a survey that would be sent to the e-mail address linked to the player account after a period of 6 months of inactivity.

Just put some basic questions in it, and maybe the mystery will be solved.

[FantasyWriter]

Instead on doing "side plots," why not finish it the way staff intended?

Destroy the world, block off the cities OOCly like the areas that were destroyed ICly in the past were done.
Spare the d-elf outpost, and either Luir's or Red Storm.

Make it new and exciting while we wait on 2.Armageddon.
Make the kank plague spread to one of the playable races that wont be in 2.Arm and wipe them out.

All this would consolidate the player base, make things exciting, be something we could advertise to bring in new players amd bring back a few of the old ones.

[Gimfalisette]

Ha, I wonder if it would be to obnoxious to develop a survey that would be sent to the e-mail address linked to the player account after a period of 6 months of inactivity.

Just put some basic questions in it, and maybe the mystery will be solved.

I'd probably do it after one month of inactivity, and make it a general "Hey, why haven't we heard from you in a while? We'd love to know." kind of thing, with a list of possibilities and a promise that it will be kept confidential and not risk the wrath of the staff. Would depend on what our standing agreement with new accounts is about sending them emails; my assumption is that there's a basic permission of "the admins can send you emails" in there.

[Lakota]

Instead on doing "side plots," why not finish it the way staff intended?

That would be lovely. We are not ready as a community yet to move forward, though. 2.0 is simply not ready.

I don't know about you, but I don't want a nuclear explosion to wipe out the mud I love in one awesome series of events, only to be without a game to enjoy for another year or two.

Hence, I propose side-plots that will in turn affect the outcome of the world and relate to the main theme/ending plot, but will also be separate in their own right.
[/quote]

[Gimfalisette]

Added point: Following up, surveying, etc of players both new and old would probably have the effect of increasing retention in and of itself, if it's done in a way that makes players feel like someone actually cares. This is why churches do Monday visitation to new attendees, and call if a congregant's been missing church; that communication of "we miss you, you're important to us" is often all that's needed to keep people around. In a community environment like ARM, that could be especially powerful.

[FantasyWriter]

I don't know about you, but I don't want a nuclear explosion to wipe out the mud I love in one awesome series of events, only to be without a game to enjoy for another year or two.

i wasn't suggesting that the game end, just that the end plot be fulfilled and we live in the post-post apocalyptic world and keep having fun, instead of running plots that were "second choice" ones instead of the one that was years in planing and became stagnant because of the OOC issue of 2.Arm taking longer that staff originally thought.

[Rahnevyn]

I never said that we could achieve 0% player loss over time, so I'm not sure why you're kind of putting those words in my mouth. What I've said, mostly, is that:
-- We don't even actually know how many veteran players we're losing over time. I made a guess, but it's based on assumptions, not full data, as I said.
-- We don't know the causes of losing those veteran players. Everyone seems to have guesses, feelings, beliefs, suspicions, opinions, etc. about this; but that's not the same as knowing.

Correct on both accounts. Also, I didn't intend to put words in your mouth or anyone's, no need to be defensive. This isn't an adversarial discussion.

I agree with you, my basic thrust to counter is that:
-- Based on what we can surmise from what we know right now, veteran player drift does not seem to be a huge factor dragging down our game, and some drift likely can't be helped no matter what we do. Other drift might be very resource intensive to address.
-- Based on our data available, new player retention can be much improved, and we have specific things we can target to improve upon it (the website, helpfiles, community resources.)
-- Staff resources are not limitless and in fact quite constrained; our most efficient option for gaining numbers is to focus on what we perceive to give us the most payoff for our effort.

Businesses that want to improve employee retention do exit interviews to find out why employees are leaving. Or if they want to improve customer retention, they do surveys. None of these things are rocket science, even the definitions such as "what is a veteran player?"; things simply need to be defined somehow, then the definitions are used as a basis for further exploration of the questions.

I actually floated an idea of doing a survey like this in advance of the player-staff meeting, but I couldn't make it happen due to limits on my own time and desire to do it well. I wanted to let players remain anonymous (to ensure more truthful answers), but still track which accounts had completed the survey or not (to prevent padding the results.) Unfortunately the technical aspects of this would have been too much to get done on top of everything else. If someone has a good suggestion on something we could use (not third party sites, since again, we want a one-account, one-answer system), please let me know.

[Lakota]

i wasn't suggesting that the game end, just that the end plot be fulfilled and we live in the post-post apocalyptic world and keep having fun, instead of running plots that were "second choice" ones instead of the one that was years in planing and became stagnant because of the OOC issue of 2.Arm taking longer that staff originally thought.

Right then. Well..I like the idea, but I do not think, for IC reasons I cannot discuss, that that would be possible.

[Gimfalisette]

Also, I didn't intend to put words in your mouth or anyone's, no need to be defensive. This isn't an adversarial discussion.

I wasn't being defensive, I was being clear about what I did and did not say, in case you were not clear about it. Apparently you were already clear about it, so that's all good.

If someone has a good suggestion on something we could use (not third party sites, since again, we want a one-account, one-answer system), please let me know.

Who do you want to survey exactly, what do you want to survey them about, and what form do you want their answers to take? E.g. current players, plot ideas, single answer from a list of choices; veteran players, reasons for leaving, essay; current players, top three ice cream flavors, multiple answers from a list of choices; etc.

[Rahnevyn]

Ideally I'd want something that lets anyone with a registered account sign in and complete the survey if they haven't yet.

In terms of how answers are formatted, I'd like to be able to have anything from "pick the best answer", "pick all that apply", to open freeform text. I'd probably lean on the first two over open response questions, because it'd be easier for staff to review answers that way.

As far as what we'd survey about... anything. I'd be interested in everything from basic demographic info to very focused questions about game issues.

edit: I'm mainly asking for a framework or shareware program we can put on ginka can do this, not suggestions on how to handle the survey itself. We need to get the capability first.

[Gimfalisette]

I'd probably use something like Constant Contact for what you want. Export from the account database into a spreadsheet a list of email addresses associated with all accounts that have been active within the last X days (say, 180 days for a 6-month range), then import that data into the tool as your survey list. The tool tracks your responses, and if you've done a good job designing the survey then you'll have meaningful data.

Should be free up to a certain quantity of email addresses and/or for a certain time period; but it looks like it's still only $15 or so per month which is money WELL spent on any kind of marketing effort.

[Jingo]

Just throwing in my 2 cents and saying that I don't think there is a problem.

Armageddon is a niche game that is always going to have a small, tight-knit community. I hype it all the time to my nerd-friends but it's obvious they're not really interested once they figure out the work involved for making a new character.

I'm not very worried about veterans either. Because even I have threatened to quit at some point.

[IntuitiveApathy]

To throw out a suggestion that hasn't been mentioned (on this thread yet), I support letting new accounts use a random character generator for their first character or two.  The one that's been talked about lately is pretty good (but we probably want to tone down the backgrounds and personalities a bit).

I think this is an absolutely fantastic idea.

As Jingo just mentioned, many people (and my friends to whom I've tried to sell the game to as well), just won't even get started because they hit the first stumbling block: making their first character.  For some people, they're just willing to throw something in there and see if it goes or not.  But I would guess that the majority of Armageddon players, and those that Arm would want to retain for the future, are not those type of people.  The game world, as advertised (and rightly so), is rich and deep.  These latter type of players would want to know about the world and how the game works so that they could properly design a character and fit in from the get go.  In order to do that, there's a massive amount of documentation to go through.  Even the slimmed-down new player documentation is quite a bit of reading to do.  The question for new players is then: Should I really be investing this time into something I don't actually know the true worth of yet?  With the wealth of much more easily accessible competition (ranging from other games to any other kind of entertainment) out there, I think Armageddon really loses out in this respect.  Which is a real pity, because people don't actually get to see how fantastic the game is.  I'm sure there are a whole lot of people out there that if they just had that taste of Armageddon, they'd be strong players.

The random character generator for new accounts would allow new players to have an easy trial of Armageddon - they could hop right in with a predetermined character concept and experience the game world first hand.  The hope is that the initial experience hooks them and they'll be much more willing to spend the time to delve further into the docs and come up with a character concept of their own when it comes time.  I feel it's important that these character concepts be detailed enough that they would be easy for a newbie to follow, but varied enough that you couldn't tell the PC is on a new account, at least by way of the character itself (not the playstyle/game knowledge).  This way, new players wouldn't feel like they'd be playing something someone else had just played last week and vets would maintain the level of comfort they currently have interacting with new players.

Veteran loss/drift is going to happen.  Yes, there's things that can be done about it.  But it's much much easier to improve the other side of the coin - new player retention.  And in my opinion, there's a much bigger upside to the time/effort to be spent on it, too.

[Lizzie]

None of this is relevent, because the "studies" alluded to regarding business models have nothing to do with MUDs. Retention rate of a mud playerbase *cannot* be compared, in any way, shape, or form, to any other business, of any kind, ever, period, end of story. Not even magazine subscription rates.

A few studies were done in the past on mud retention rates, and the generally agreed-upon consensus was that anything over 1% was a good thing. So - for every 100 players who come and go - if at the end of the year you have 1 more player per hundred than the year before, then you're doing just fine.

[Lakota]

None of this is relevent, because the "studies" alluded to regarding business models have nothing to do with MUDs. Retention rate of a mud playerbase *cannot* be compared, in any way, shape, or form, to any other business, of any kind, ever, period, end of story. Not even magazine subscription rates.

I think Gimf put up a good case that comparisons could be drawn. So...I disagree?

So - for every 100 players who come and go - if at the end of the year you have 1 more player per hundred than the year before, then you're doing just fine.

Not if you're losing great players and gaining in turn shitty players. I'd rather have one ale six over one hundred Deleraks anyday, but c'mon.

[Lizzie]

Well then you're not talking about retention Lakota, you're talking about improved or maintained quality. If you want to retain or improve quality, then you should check studies (or create your own) on that. This (I thought) was about player retention, with no particular emphasis on the quality of the retained player.

[Gimfalisette]

We're talking about retention of already-converted players (veterans), as well as conversion of prospective players. You're talking about conversion of prospective players, which is in essence the sales cycle. (Prospect to customer.)

[Lakota]

Well then you're not talking about retention Lakota, you're talking about improved or maintained quality.

Is there not a direct, inherent relationship between player retention and improved/maintained quality?

[Clearsighted]

Ultimately, whatever staff does, will have little effect in retaining players except on the periphery. Those who retain and inspire players, are the vast majority of the time, the IC leaders and companions in the game world. That also works in reverse. Particularly poor leaders from whom there is felt to be no IC escape, tend to drive them away.

[SMuz]

Honestly, I'd leave the game as soon as my player dies - but I'll make another side character, not a hero this time, just a sidekick. Or a mini-villain. This game takes up a lot of time, just like any other other game which I tend to stop playing after a while. It's not that the game is bad or anything; it's that it's just too good

But I promise, I'll try to get as many people to join the game when I do leave

The trick of course, is in retaining them. Sure, most newbies are bad, but it takes a while to suck 'em in and train them till they get better. The main thing keeping away players, IMHO, is the concept itself - a harsh, rude, cruel world full of backstabbing (political and physical), corruption, etc. Low fantasy, as opposed to Shadows of Isildur's high fantasy concept.

[Tisiphone]

Honestly, I'd leave the game as soon as my player dies...

I daresay you will. However, I should hope one of Armageddon's retention problems isn't killing players.

[Clearsighted]

The trick of course, is in retaining them. Sure, most newbies are bad, but it takes a while to suck 'em in and train them till they get better. The main thing keeping away players, IMHO, is the concept itself - a harsh, rude, cruel world full of backstabbing (political and physical), corruption, etc. Low fantasy, as opposed to Shadows of Isildur's high fantasy concept.

Dunno about that. It's the IC harshness and cruelty that keeps me. I think the main difficulty with newbies is the OOC harshness and cruelty it takes to endure in order to really grasp the game. Considering how (relatively) little OOC help is given.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I kind of like the idea of making no karma give you a human only option. Noobs no longer have to worry about racial roleplay, and they can work anywhere and do anything. It's a clever idea.

[Only He Stands There]

I'm split on that.

For one thing, it really helps new players get acclimated, it makes learning the races easier, and so forth.

On the other hand, though, it also sucks for new players to not be able to play anything but humans, especially if they're players who have been around for a long time and just overlooked for karma.

Perhaps making it so that your first PC/first couple of PCs could only be human, rather than a "0 karma = human only" option?

[Lakota]

I daresay you will. However, I should hope one of Armageddon's retention problems isn't killing players.

ROFL!!!!

You kill me.

[Rahnevyn]

Morgenes and I found an open source survey framework we think we might be able to use. I'm planning to hack around with it over the weekend and see if we can get it running. If we can, we ought to be able to do some surveys without needing a third party.

[staggerlee]

I'm not sure that limiting race options is going to do anything to improve player retention.
I could elaborate on why... but I'm not sure I need to. If you think about it there are a lot of factors that could scare people off and make the game inaccessible, and failing to portray an elf or dwarf in a nuanced, consistent manner is probably not the largest of them.

[Gimfalisette]

If you think about it there are a lot of factors that could scare people off and make the game inaccessible, and failing to portray an elf or dwarf in a nuanced, consistent manner is probably not the largest of them.

I think the point being made is not about whether or not the newbie has the ability to portray a non-human race; it's about non-humans being less likely able to find employment or interact socially than humans. Making an elf and then getting in game to find out everyone hates your PC from the start, you can't find a job, you receive open abuse, and no-one wants to be friends? Confusing and off-putting. Likewise, making a PC in Red Storm and then not being able to find even one other player? "Quit."

[Lakota]

Morgenes and I found an open source survey framework we think we might be able to use. I'm planning to hack around with it over the weekend and see if we can get it running. If we can, we ought to be able to do some surveys without needing a third party.

Glad to see staff is doing something. Thanks.

[Armaddict]

Didn't read the whole thread.  I do come back and peek and see how the game is coming along, now and then.

But I will have it noted that the 'silent drifting away' of veteran players is often preceded by them making lots and lots of posts and critiques, and it's only once these are ignored or mashed down under the rolling snowball of the new that they drift off.

It isn't that they stop caring.  It's that the game changes in some way, or the player status changes, -something- usually changes that makes it easier to break off from the addiction that is this game.  There's no attempt to call them back, since they leave quietly, and it just fades.  That's just my opinion on it.  XD

[roughneck]

A point that's been made about veteran players that I would elaborate a little on now is that of the player's RL circumstances.

I think this is easily the biggest reason veterans leaves the game.  I started playing with three other guys in highschool, we all played for three years pretty actively.  Now only two of us play while one other has a character made but rarely ever logs in.  Of the two of us that play now, I took two years out and the other has taken a year out at some point as well.  None of us became cynical, angry or even really bored, just busy busy busy.

I don't know how many of you have felt the way I have, but at times I'll finally lose a character that I've put a lot of work into and like very much and feel -relieved-.  Relieved because the commitment to that character has been stressing me out and straining my commitment to other things in life.  Maybe just because at times the only way I can play this game is by sacrificing sleep and I'm so damn tired and grumpy I get excited about the decent sleeps I'm going to be getting for the next week.

Then I roll up another character when life gets a little slower.

I see the amount of time some players and staff put into this game and I think there's just as much merit to having links to addictions counselling/dangers on the home page as there is to having player retention programs.

Which leads me to another point and that's the amount OOC procedure and communication that can be burdenning to players and I speculate wear staff right out.  When you're plotting against other characters you need to be more worried about covering your ass and thinking up some flowery emote than you do about actually plotting how you're somehow by the love of Tek' going to take out that sorcerer with you're elven child pickpocket because of the complaint that sorcerer is going to send with the complaint tool (which I think is lame and un-armageddon, but that's a different post) about how unfair life is and he had no chance.  All that to say, the more we can do to limit obligations the better, I think, for staff and players.

And the game just changes, and veterans normally don't like it.  It's like having a younger brother (in many cases).  The veterans have grown up with a different set of rules - armageddon used to be a very unforgiving place to play.  There was (I thought) very clear rules and rp expectations and you got your wrist slapped when you stepped out of line, much like it is now (although I've hears some horror stories about times past but I really have no experiences like that).  However, things have changed and as we try and make armageddon more friendly place, develop policies about being nice to other players etc. the rules change for the 'younger brother' and then the veteran gets frustrated.

All that to say, I really appreciate and understand where these ideas are coming from and I do what I can to help new players and I think programs for new players (players that have been at arm for less than six months IMO) are a very good thing.  What I'd like to see, and I feel that I'm a minority on this, is armageddon getting back to towing the hard line it did in the past.  Everyone who loves the game adapts to the same set of rules and you buck up and stop bitching when you think something's unfair or somebody hurt your feelings.  Don't overburden the staff with a mountain of emails, requests and complaints and do what you need to get done IG with other characters.

Don't compromise the ideals of badassity for player retention, that's my message.  People will play at armageddon because it's better than other muds and because it's just as hard and gutsy OOC as it is IC.  Nobody needs to be treated like a prick but nobody needs to be babysat either.

[Lizzie]

...screw it.

[Reiloth]

I see the amount of time some players and staff put into this game and I think there's just as much merit to having links to addictions counselling/dangers on the home page as there is to having player retention programs.

[Archbaron]

I've seen the newbie NPCs that give out mini-quests and tours on other MUDs, even RPI MUDs, and I have to say that if Armageddon was to incorporate this, it would have to be really, really polished. It general gives the game the feel that it's based around quests, which isn't a good impression from the start. I think that if players can't read the documentation or find the wealth of helping documents on the website and GDB, then they aren't the quality of player's we're looking for.

One could argue that training players is always a plus, but what we should be looking at is not player retention but player attraction. If we attract a lot of people, then the ones cut out for this game will stay and the others will leave.

Armageddon is like a sieve in the sand at the beach. Most of the players (the sand) falls right through at different rates, but after each batch, there's always an ugly lump or broken bit of glass or condom wrapper. Those people are us.

We should work towards fixing our website to make it more friendly to people who want to learn. That doesn't mean holding their hand, it just means pointing them in the right direction. We should update a lot of the documents, especially the ones related to getting into the game and creating characters because 90% of that is severely outdated. It's been proposed as a community project before, but it's something that we really need to focus on.

[Fathi]

Personally, I think one of the biggest hurdles for new players is the lack of an available glossary of terms, other than helpfiles. Armageddon has a lot of unique jargon, and unfortunately, if you aren't already part of the culture, it looks like Greek in a lot of ways.

Terms and concepts like VNPC, RPT, storyteller, highlord, and even GDB are pretty foreign to those outside the community, and it took me a long time to figure out a lot of them when I was a fresh-faced newb.

Seriously, GDB. Who the hell calls a 'forum' or a 'BBS' a 'GDB'?

[musashi]

Armageddon is like a sieve in the sand at the beach. Most of the players (the sand) falls right through at different rates, but after each batch, there's always an ugly lump or broken bit of glass or condom wrapper. Those people are us.

This made me snort milk through my nose laughing.

[Archbaron]

Personally, I think one of the biggest hurdles for new players is the lack of an available glossary of terms, other than helpfiles. Armageddon has a lot of unique jargon, and unfortunately, if you aren't already part of the culture, it looks like Greek in a lot of ways.

Terms and concepts like VNPC, RPT, storyteller, highlord, and even GDB are pretty foreign to those outside the community, and it took me a long time to figure out a lot of them when I was a fresh-faced newb.

Seriously, GDB. Who the hell calls a 'forum' or a 'BBS' a 'GDB'?

I highly endorse this, as it was a major hurdle for me as well.

[FantasyWriter]

Personally, I think one of the biggest hurdles for new players is the lack of an available glossary of terms, other than helpfiles. Armageddon has a lot of unique jargon, and unfortunately, if you aren't already part of the culture, it looks like Greek in a lot of ways.

Terms and concepts like VNPC, RPT, storyteller, highlord, and even GDB are pretty foreign to those outside the community, and it took me a long time to figure out a lot of them when I was a fresh-faced newb.

Seriously, GDB. Who the hell calls a 'forum' or a 'BBS' a 'GDB'?

Great idea, Fathi, those things could and should be added to the help files--which is the closest thing we have to a glossary--and I think it would help a alot.

[Morgenes]

Personally, I think one of the biggest hurdles for new players is the lack of an available glossary of terms, other than helpfiles. Armageddon has a lot of unique jargon, and unfortunately, if you aren't already part of the culture, it looks like Greek in a lot of ways.

Terms and concepts like VNPC, RPT, storyteller, highlord, and even GDB are pretty foreign to those outside the community, and it took me a long time to figure out a lot of them when I was a fresh-faced newb.

Seriously, GDB. Who the hell calls a 'forum' or a 'BBS' a 'GDB'?

Great idea, Fathi, those things could and should be added to the help files--which is the closest thing we have to a glossary--and I think it would help a alot.

Note that before today, RPT and GDB were already in the Help files, which are available through the website and in the game.  Shalooonsh and I have added VNPC and are working on the other suggestions.

[Shalooonsh]

Done.

[flurry]

Some other potentially newbie-confusing jargon that's not in the help files:

twink
immortal
mantis head
kudos
sids

[FantasyWriter]

Note that before today, RPT and GDB were already in the Help files, which are available through the website and in the game.  Shalooonsh and I have added VNPC and are working on the other suggestions.

Done.

As always...
Armageddon staff rocks!

Thanks, you two!

[Morgenes]

Some other potentially newbie-confusing jargon that's not in the help files:

twink
immortal
mantis head
kudos
sids

Linked 'immortal' to 'staff' and 'sids' to 'obsidian'.

We'll get the other three up ASAP.

[Marauder Moe]

I would think one should never ever hear the word "twink" in-game, even over OOC.

"Kudos" and "mantis head" are likewise OOC terms that don't really relate to the type of discussions that the OOC command is meant for.

[Archbaron]

Another that comes to mind is Ginka.

I know ginka is a fruit in the game, but we also refer to it as our server, and refer to it a lot on the GDB as such. Might help to differentiate the two.

[Gimfalisette]

I would think one should never ever hear the word "twink" in-game, even over OOC.

"Kudos" and "mantis head" are likewise OOC terms that don't really relate to the type of discussions that the OOC command is meant for.

No, but help files don't have to just be about what's said in game. Having glossary terms related to GDB discussions is helpful too.

[Archbaron]

This glossary should also be on the forum, and not just in help files.

[FantasyWriter]

This glossary should also be on the forum, and not just in help files.

Help files are fairly easy to navigate, especially with all the links at the bottom of the "definition."

If it were on the GDB, I don't see how it could be anything but a list.

I assume if one wanted to take the time out (I can't see it taking less than 12 hours), they could start a post and copy and past from the help files, but OMG that would be one hell of a long post.

Said player would also need to be willing to keep it edited and updated which could also be a rather daunting task.

Edited to add: I would definatly make sure to ask the staff about it before you get started, Archbaron... or anyone else who wanted to do it.

[Bebop]

1) I think that the Help Files should be more newbie friendly
        The abbreviations are a start.  Less lingo in the help files.  They should be more direct and spaced out with bullets and bolded text so that they're more comprehensive.

2) I HAVE seen veteran players falling off left and right since the game has begun to end.

Even if people come back some really key players are seriously considering quitting.  Even if they come back who is to say they won't dwindle off?  Gimf is right.  Player retention IS important.

Even before I said I was indefinitely quitting I had already dwindled back and and forth.  During the times I was back I didn't have the best experiences either though I can not elaborate.  I am not necessarily a veteran player, but I have been around four years and am quiet familiar with the game.

I learned how to play by watching other Veteran players.  Though their play types were not all the same I took a little of each as I went along and learned and created my own style.  Veteran players set the standard.  The lack of veteran players and the slow changing and dismissing of some of our veteran ideals is some of the reason I feel that the quality of RP has decrease.  We aren't maintaining the same standards we had four years ago when I started playing (in my perspective) and that is disappointing.  Time and time again I have watched people approach the game with complete disregard for documentation for whatever reason it may be (lack of understanding, lacking the will to follow the rules etc).  Regardless, when you have more people like newbs in the game that lack the understanding than you have veterans (because you aren't retaining the veterans who set the standard) undoubtly the standard of RP is going to decrease.

Gimf is also right that sucesss can be interrepted by our game growing.  Armageddon is a niche game.  But that does not mean that we should be exempt from growing (even slowly) as the years progress.  At some point Armageddon DID grow.  But I think she is right.  It has stopped growing.  I've been playing for four years and while I do think we've seen a small margin of growth I'm not sure it's just that small and I'm not sure that lately we're even retaining it.

I honestly believe that if the second version of the game is not successful it will have the power to completely end Armageddon or at least end Armageddon as we know it with the quality of RP that we've come to expect and has maintained the few old, old players that remain AND continue to play actively.

3) My third suggestion is that the homepage remain easy to read but much more enticing by using the excellent art of our members and choosing a more aesthetically pleasing layout to make a more appealling first impression.  It also must immediately show what Armageddon offers, combat, realism, and amazing magick system.  So what if we toot our own horn?  Why isn't there something on the homepage that represents?

Armageddon is a highly modified DIKU MUD, a form of multiplayer online roleplaying game (MMORG), designed to provide a roleplaying experience in the harsh desert world of Zalanthas. The game is entirely textual, providing a coded backdrop in which players enact their characters' storylines. Players are required to stay in character on the game, but chatting about the game and its community takes place on the discussion boards. To get started, telnet to armageddon.org 4050 and create an account (the game is free). Once you have an account, you can create a character and begin playing.

We strongly suggest that new players take the time to review the wealth of documents describing the rich cultural and historical detail of Zalanthas in order to help them design and roleplay an interesting, compelling character. At the same time, we invite current players to continue perusing the docs as new ones are added and existing ones augmented, as well as to visit our bookstore, which lists titles that have influenced the game and staff recommendations. If you want to try the game before investing too much time in the documentation, please read our Quickstart.

This site serves as a central location for documentation about the game and its world, as well as to provide an introduction for users new to our environment. We've included artwork, poetry and stories from both staff and players depicting aspects of our harsh desert world, and welcome more. Submissions, questions, and commentary should be sent to mud@armageddon.org.

Why doesn't the front page read a little more like this?  (And be gentle I have to go get on the treadmill before going to bed and I'm on like a full day of work and five hours of sleep here:)

A barren land desiccated by the magick rituals of it's power hungry denizens awaits you.  Two opposing city-states loom over the dunes and the scattered Outposts of the land.  Performers entice pedestrians wandering across the cobbled stone streets and past canvas tents, they offer to distract them from their daily struggle for survival and water.  Cunning nobility and socialites and rulers are lavished in wealth and bide their time in player driven power struggles.  

Armagedon is a text-based MMORG RPG like no other available online.  Set in the harsh desert realms of Zalanthas, experience life as a savvy merchant, a deft archer and woods man or risk it all by manipulating your way through society in the deadly games of politics.  Immerse yourself in the online world that is Armagedon.

In the making for over ten years Armageddon is a text-based game with a coded backdrop where you will experience an unparallel and intense level of role-play in which your character has boundless potential to accomplish their goals or live out the simple but busy life of a skilled commoner.  Armageddon also features a player driven economy, history and even a black market where crafty criminals can manipulate society at it's underbelly.  Based on a class system character creation is simple and documentation  for new players is available on the link below.  Click here to open Armageddon's free telnet application or use your on MUD Client by logging on to www.armageddon.org at port 4050 to create your account.  

After you've logged into Armageddon the game will take you through the steps to create your character.  To ensure our high level of role-play your character will have to be approved.  Applications are approved within twenty four hours.  Once approved begin the life of your character and enjoy unrestricted travel through the dangerous and incredible world of Zalanthas.

Sounds much more fun to me.

[Bebop]

My fifteen minute jpg attempt at a more "flashy" webpage.



Banners and updates could be added at the space at the bottom.

Disclaimer:  Art is that of Defunct and Goodbit from Original Submissions.

Full view:

http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc267/yomparhere/?action=view&current=webpage5.jpg

When shrunk the stuff got a little blurry but you get the idea.

[Archbaron]

 

[number13]

Armaggedon MUD is the ongoing story of a barren land desiccated by cursed magick.  Two opposing city-states loom over the wastes -- between them scattered outposts and tribes fend for survival.  Over the past ten years, the story of Armaggedon has been advanced thanks to the contributions of hundreds of players.

A game like no other, Armaggedon features intense mandatory role-play in the cutthroat world of Zalanthas.  Experience life as a hard-scrabbling hunter, a savvy merchant, a grizzled mercenary, a desperate criminal, a vicious noble, a hated magicker, or a thousand other roles.  Be forewarned -- Zalanthas is an unforgiving place. Death is permanent. Murder, theft, and other crimes are not restricted by artificial rules, but via enforcement of the city-state's laws. Actions have very real consequences for your character and the world.

Documentation for new players is available on the link below.  Click here to open Armageddon's free telnet application or use your on MUD Client by logging on to www.armageddon.org at port 4050 to create your account.

After you've logged into Armageddon the game will take you through the steps to create your character.  To ensure our high level of role-play your character will have to be approved.  Applications are usually approved within twenty four hours.  Once approved begin the life of your character and enjoy unrestricted travel through the dangerous and incredible world of Zalanthas.

......

If you do not yet have a MUD client, the following are recommended: blah blah blah.  Armaggeddon is a heavily modified DIKU Mud.  The original DIKU mud was created by blah bah blah.

I'd also include a nice side-bar of links to some very fluffy descriptions of Allanak, Tuluk, the Rinth, Luirs, the Tablelands, etc. etc. along with pictures.  A link on the side bar also features some examples of play mined from the best of the logs.

[spawnloser]

I stopped reading half way through the first page.  I think your perception of the data is skewed.  I yawn at you.  Really play the game if you want others to play with you.  That is all.

[jhunter]

I wholeheartedly agree with Bebop about the website. I would love to see it spiffied up more with game-related artwork and such.

[Ammut]

I like what you did, Bebop.  It looks cool.

[mansa]

I stopped reading half way through the first page.  I think your perception of the data is skewed.  I yawn at you.  Really play the game if you want others to play with you.  That is all.

Shall I name names of the previous "power Players" that have left the game over the past 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 years?

Spawnloser, I expect more from you.  You've been at it a lot longer than other players.  You're an example of someone who's come and gone and come and gone and come.  What keeps you coming back?

[AmandaGreathouse]

Fantastic look, Bebop. Thanks for the effort you put in, I really like it, though I do agree with the person who posted something about links to info about each city with a tiny bit of info on each on the main page.

[LoD]

Shall I name names of the previous "power Players" that have left the game over the past 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 years?

Sure, but I'd like to see someone name any computer game that hasn't lost veteran, long-standing, or frequent players -- any computer game ever made.  Why would we be any different?  And why would we choose to see that natural phenomenon as anything other than what it is?  There's always room for improvement, but I don't believe we'll ever stop this from happening.

-LoD

[Shalooonsh]

mantis head and kudos are both in on help files.

[FantasyWriter]

mantis head and kudos are both in on help files.

I would be afraid to type "help mantis head' in-game...

I would be afraid that it would think I was asking for its help and show up...

[musashi]

mantis head and kudos are both in on help files.

I would be afraid to type "help mantis head' in-game...

I would be afraid that it would think I was asking for its help and show up...

I have similiar fears about typing "contant tektolnes" or "kiss echri".

[Bluefae]

     Very nice work, Bebop.  The artwork really helps to make the world come alive, especially for folks who aren't used to it and/or might not have a fantasy gaming background.  Even for vets of other MUDs or gaming in general, the Arm-specific items (in this case, webbed boots, non-metal weapon, and possibly a sandcloth facewrap) immediately help to convey the experience to which they can look forward.