Steal is overpowered

[Dar]

if I understand correctly, and I might be off. You 'always' get the tagging echo if something bulky gets taken. Most 'definately' a pack. Prolly pants/torso cloth too. Now ... if your stamina is too low, and you cant wake up even though you feel being stolen from, then ... well, it's on you . You're too damn exhausted to notice being rolled over like a rag doll.

[Yokunama]

if I understand correctly, and I might be off. You 'always' get the tagging echo if something bulky gets taken. Most 'definately' a pack. Prolly pants/torso cloth too. Now ... if your stamina is too low, and you cant wake up even though you feel being stolen from, then ... well, it's on you . You're too damn exhausted to notice being rolled over like a rag doll.

I agree with this. If you ever had anyone try to take your clothes off while you sleep in the real world, you'll know its nearly impossible to do while waking you.

[Tlaloc]

I do think it would be neat if the code took the difference between "sleeping" and "unconscious" when taking roguery into consideration. If your character is asleep, then I can see an argument for suddenly waking while someone attempts to remove an item that is being worn. Sleeves, shirts, pants, gloves should all be very hard to steal without waking the victim, with heavy items being harder to swipe than lighter things. Loose items like hats and cloaks should be easier, while things like sheathed weapons and jailers keyrings on belts should be very easy. Your inventory is fair game, and a thief should be able to open your backpack and swipe things from inside without too much trouble while you're busy snoozing away.

That's while you're sleeping. If you're unconscious, then all bets are off. If you are physically unable to wake up (because you were sapped, poisoned, or drunk, for example), then you should count yourself lucky they're just taking your stuff.

Now to expand on some ideas: Nerf sleep (the command, no the spell). Sleeping should take what you're wearing in to account. Having worn armor in my lifetime, I do think sleeping in heavy armor is possible, but I'm not sure it would be very restful, unless I was completely exhausted. Perhaps sleeping should be harder to do (or regenerate your HP/Stam/Whatever slower) if you're wearing that heavy-spiked obsidian wrist-razored anakore claw full platemail of doom. Maybe if you wear heavy stuff like that, you find yourself waking up a lot as you try and sleep, as you toss and turn trying to get comphy. Sleeping should be easier and more restful if you're wearing only your silken Faleish boxers.

Also, maybe characters should randomly drop things from their inventories as they sleep. I mean - if I fall asleep with something in my hand, it's a crapshoot if I'm going to be still holding it when I wake.

So, while thieves may have a harder time stealing from you while you sleep, maybe it should also be harder to sleep with a bunch of junk anyway.

While thinking about this, I briefly thought that it would be cool if there was a chance of becoming incriminated if you were swiping an unconscious person's stuff in common rooms (like the Gaj). However, the more I think about it, the more I think it's just not in line with the harshness of the game. Nobody should be perfectly safe anywhere, and on Zalanthas, I think people try to keep their noses out of other peoples business. If I'm trying to get a good nights sleep in the Gaj, why would I start hollering about the Guilder who's stripping some poor bastard next to me? If I talk, he might break my knees!

I think ultimately, the truth is: if you want to be safe and not get your stuff stolen, take steps to prevent that from happening. Find some friends to guard you while you sleep, join a clan, make enough money for an apartment, etc. etc. etc.

[Synthesis]

Fuck having to take your gear off to sleep.

Such a pain to dick around with inventory/eq.

[mansa]

Sleep;
That's where I'm a viking.

[Tisiphone]

Possibility: when stealing from a sleeping person, there could be a check against your steal skill to see if you can pull it off without waking your target. Penalize this check if you're trying to steal something they have equipped, since you would have to unstrap it or otherwise pull it off of them. Failure wakes the target up.

I like this. Make the check dependent on the reasons for sleep, intoxication and spice level (with the right kind of spice), and so on, and I'd be very happy with this idea.

[audrey]

Oh, crap, sorry about the IC information. It was in context, but IC, so yeah, sorry

Also, I'm not really fond of the idea that you can't sleep in public just because of thieves. I get the idea that it's trying to discourage you from healing in an unsafe area. But c'mon, it's supposed to be a realistic game. Everyone talks about sleeping in public as if it's swimming in the Silt Sea. It shouldn't be a death sentence to sleep.

What I'm most annoyed is that while PCs won't 'abuse' steal, a typical NPC could and will do it well. A legendary 40-day thief stealing the pants from an sleeping person, I understand. But c'mon.. a common Amos NPC ripping off your entire inventory in an hour and hiding it in his pants.. without an echo? That's ridiculous.

[Yam]

Oh, crap, sorry about the IC information. It was in context, but IC, so yeah, sorry

Also, I'm not really fond of the idea that you can't sleep in public just because of thieves. I get the idea that it's trying to discourage you from healing in an unsafe area. But c'mon, it's supposed to be a realistic game. Everyone talks about sleeping in public as if it's swimming in the Silt Sea. It shouldn't be a death sentence to sleep.

What I'm most annoyed is that while PCs won't 'abuse' steal, a typical NPC could and will do it well. A legendary 40-day thief stealing the pants from an sleeping person, I understand. But c'mon.. a common Amos NPC ripping off your entire inventory in an hour and hiding it in his pants.. without an echo? That's ridiculous.

You DO get an echo if an unskilled person steals things from you while you sleep.

[Tlaloc]

Fuck having to take your gear off to sleep.

Such a pain to dick around with inventory/eq.

Just as a quick aside - I was mostly kidding about nerfing sleep. While it's a funny mental exercise, I think playability and fun trumps realism in this case. Looking back, I think Jstorrie basically said what I was trying to say, in a much more succinct manner.

[Synthesis]

Fuck having to take your gear off to sleep.

Such a pain to dick around with inventory/eq.

Just as a quick aside - I was mostly kidding about nerfing sleep. While it's a funny mental exercise, I think playability and fun trumps realism in this case. Looking back, I think Jstorrie basically said what I was trying to say, in a much more succinct manner.

I got trolled by Tlaloc 

[RogueGunslinger]

Is it not possible to steal from a table, or bar, or other object that objects can be on?

Syntax?

[Yam]

steal thing place

[RogueGunslinger]

Code Select Expand

93/93 111/115 90/90 standing-walking-sirihish-northern
neutral->
steal mug bar
You quietly approach your target.

93/93 111/115 90/90 standing-walking-sirihish-northern
neutral->

Steal what?

93/93 111/115 90/90 standing-walking-sirihish-northern
neutral->

Code Select Expand


93/93 111/115 90/90 standing-walking-sirihish-northern
neutral->
l table
  Carved from a single board of light agafari wood, - Edited-
Some rickety, wooden chairs are drawn up to it.

On a agafari table (here) :
nothing

93/93 111/115 90/90 standing-walking-sirihish-northern
neutral->
put wine table
You put your finely made glass goblet onto a compact agafari table.

93/93 111/115 90/90 standing-walking-sirihish-northern
neutral->
steal wine table
You quietly approach your target.

93/93 111/115 90/90 standing-walking-sirihish-northern
neutral->

Steal what?

93/93 111/115 90/90 standing-walking-sirihish-northern
neutral->

[Cutthroat]

I think you can only steal if it's dropped in the room.

From something like a bar you'd have to use sleight of hand.

[RogueGunslinger]

You're right... That's very silly...

[Cutthroat]

Yes. Yes, it is.

- Cutthroat hopes a coder will take pity on the thieves of Zalanthas, and let steal work on objects in objects in a room.

[RogueGunslinger]

But you can steal [item] [person] pack... Code is annoying....

[Yam]

Use palm.

[mansa]

Is it not possible to steal from a table, or bar, or other object that objects can be on?

Syntax?

palm item table
slip item table

You need the sleight of hand skill

You can place items on the ground without people knowing, using the plant skill
You can take items from the ground, using the steal skill.

[RogueGunslinger]

I understand... But it obviously shouldn't work like that. I'll just assume there is a reason.

Either stealing items from the floor should use the sleight of hand skill, or stealing items from a table should use the steal skill.

It's just inconsistent is all.

I'll bug it.

[Yam]

I understand... But it obviously shouldn't work like that. I'll just assume there is a reason.

Either stealing items from the floor should use the sleight of hand skill, or stealing items from a table should use the steal skill.

It's just inconsistent is all.

I'll bug it.

It's coded that way because tables and the like are considered containers.

[RogueGunslinger]

But you can steal [item] [person] pack... Code is annoying....

Does that mean you can't Steal [item] pack if the pack is on the ground? You have to palm it?

[Yam]

But you can steal [item] [person] pack... Code is annoying....

Does that mean you can't Steal [item] pack if the pack is on the ground? You have to palm it?

They are considered as a neutral container, not the property of someone else.

[mansa]

palm & slip are designed to palm items from containers that you are carrying.   Like a belt, boot, pack.

The game doesn't differentiate a container that is worn, to a container on the ground.

[RogueGunslinger]

What???

You're making me feel really stupid.

If the code doesn't differentiate a container that's worn or one on the ground how come you can steal from a pack on a person, but not the ground? And you can palm/slip from a pack on the ground, and on your person, but not on another person.