Poison

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

One thing I don't understand is how a simple taste/sip of a poisoned object will almost always (if not 100% of the time) poison you, yet a poisoned arrow/knife has a chance of not poisoning you.

Ingestion (inhalation, digestion) of any virus is way more deadly than imprecise injection.

[Lakota]

Ingestion (inhalation, digestion) of any virus is way more deadly than imprecise injection.

That so? I figured injecting a poison directly into your bloodstream would yield swift results. Especially a neck or body shot.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

That's true, but a thrown dart/knife/arrow doesn't have that great a chance to hit an artery. I said indirect injection. There is a reason crackheads aim for a vein instead of the general area of the arm.

[Lakota]

That's true, but a thrown dart/knife/arrow doesn't have that great a chance to hit an artery.

It doesn't have to. Besides, we're talking about knives that might all be tapered and thin. Some may be wide and serrated with hollow tips that better deliver poison. Some have wide edges (the entirety of which is coated in poison, mind you) that have a great chance of at least entering -one- vein, artery, or capillary network of blood vessels, seeing as how the human/humanoid body is absolutely riddled with them.

Furthermore, an experienced archery/missle thrower would likely have a great chance of hitting a rather vital section of their target's body. That's why they nail more neck shots than others, and consequently deal out far more damage. Poisoning and the chance to do so should reflect said skill, IMHO.

I said indirect injection. There is a reason crackheads aim for a vein instead of the general area of the arm.

I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by "indirect." Do you mean imprecise? A human body has not only arteries and veins but an intricate system of capillaries as well that can just as readily distribute poison to the body.

Besides, not all poisons work as fast if inhaled/ingested. I suppose we could delve into how specific poisons react in specific ways to the human body, but I don't think ArmageddonMUD's code need reflect that much depth.

[spawnloser]

The issue I bring up is not how a poison is delivered but that a readily available poison to anyone with desire to find a poison is as devestating as to kill a character that doesn't have nosave on and has an endurance at or above human maximum.  Poison, in my opinion, is too powerful... especially since magick isn't even so powerful (with some of the recent changes to certain types of spells).

[Lakota]

The issue I bring up is not how a poison is delivered but that a readily available poison to anyone with desire to find a poison is as devestating as to kill a character that doesn't have nosave on and has an endurance at or above human maximum.

Spawnloser...I feel you man. We've already agreed (well, you and myself in any case) that bloodburn, and in some cases even grishen, is a bit too beefy.

The discussion has just evolved onto other topics.

If I were you I'd simply mail the mud with a proposal of ideas. You might find the results more to your liking, seeing as how perusing the GDB backup/support usually yields nothing in your (generally speaking, nothing personal) favor.

Poison, in my opinion, is too powerful... especially since magick isn't even so powerful (with some of the recent changes to certain types of spells).

Eh, you have a point, but to be fair the spells you are likely referencing are, once they land, instadeath for the character on the receiving end (unless your magicker is just raiding). There's a big difference between mundane poisons and magickal spells. No one said there has been or should be a balance. Nessalin himself has stated this before, if I am not mistaken.

[spawnloser]

Issue 1:  Poison is available to anyone with 0 karma.  Magick requires karma.
Issue 2:  I have USED the spells I've referenced and NEVER killed another PC by my use of them because I think it doesn't add to the game, unlike those that seek only to win.
Issue 3:  Why mail the mud when I want the players to discuss this issue so that there is more than one person's opinion to be listened to?
Issue 4:  If the discussion has evolved to other topics, why not take those other topics to other threads?

[Only He Stands There]

When rugged muls die of bloodburn, something's wrong. I agree with spawnloser.

[Clearsighted]

Issue 1:  Poison is available to anyone with 0 karma.  Magick requires karma.
Issue 2:  I have USED the spells I've referenced and NEVER killed another PC by my use of them because I think it doesn't add to the game, unlike those that seek only to win.
Issue 3:  Why mail the mud when I want the players to discuss this issue so that there is more than one person's opinion to be listened to?
Issue 4:  If the discussion has evolved to other topics, why not take those other topics to other threads?

Sounds like someone's magicker died to some poison not too long ago.

Bloodburn is already weak enough to be almost inconsequential. And there are a myriad ways to overcome poison. Fully half the mundane classes have some means to make the tablets eventually.

It seems you want to make poison weak enough to where you don't even need to carry tablets half the time, and nothing that will inconvenience you longer than it takes your spells to whack your would be poisoner.

I don't have any pity for someone if they're so ISO that they can't possibly get a tablet from one of the four or five NPC shops (at least one in a very isolated location) or make a single contact. It's just a risk they take. And I think it is lame to suggest in the same post that those who do go out of their way to cover that eventuality are somehow twinking.

[Dar]

I agree with clearsighted. There are many guilds who have the ability to overcome poison. I can think of atleast 4 which have a variable degree of methods that can make any poison except heramide/pereine to be near irrelevent.

So personally, I disagree that poisons are too powerful. What I do not like about poisons is how 'easilly' are they procured. Common and Terradin poisons is 'very' easy to procure, and do so in great quantities at that.  But then again, making cures for them is also very easy.

I'm a bit puzzled about it though, because I heard of people 'enduring' common poison, but never done it before. Maybe it was a bit 'exaggerated'.

As for Spawnloser. Bud, the core of the issue is that your character had very little contact with anybody else. That put you in a great deal of disadvantage. Including lack of antidotes, lack of good armor, lack of good weapons, lack of anything that you yourself couldnt make. You shouldnt blame the poison, you should blame your tribemates (if this was of a tribe), who've failed to create a reasonable supply of antidotes for their buddies. Or you should blame the harsh rules of the tribe, for generally making people survive on their own, exercising survival of the fittest. Your character ... wasnt the fittest. But I might be off, since I do not know IC events.

[Lakota]

Poison is available to anyone with 0 karma.  Magick requires karma.

So? It's relatively easy to acquire tablets man. If you've got a little over fifty 'sid you can buy one.

Issue 2:  I have USED the spells I've referenced and NEVER killed another PC by my use of them because I think it doesn't add to the game, unlike those that seek only to win.

Then you're better than half the tards out there with karma. I congratulate you.

Issue 3:  Why mail the mud when I want the players to discuss this issue so that there is more than one person's opinion to be listened to?

Because discussing the issue with players often times solves nothing. The playerbase does not control the code. Email Morgenes.

Issue 4:  If the discussion has evolved to other topics, why not take those other topics to other threads?

Maybe because the thread has evolved and moved on to other topics? Why not be more polite in your posts, as opposed to expressing yourself in such an abrasive and confrontational manner. You might not make many friends, or care to for that matter, but people might respect you more, and in turn be more inclined to hear you out. A little courtesy goes a long way.

[spawnloser]

Bud, the core of the issue is that your character had very little contact with anybody else. That put you in a great deal of disadvantage. Including lack of antidotes, lack of good armor, lack of good weapons, lack of anything that you yourself couldnt make. You shouldnt blame the poison, you should blame your tribemates (if this was of a tribe), who've failed to create a reasonable supply of antidotes for their buddies. Or you should blame the harsh rules of the tribe, for generally making people survive on their own, exercising survival of the fittest. Your character ... wasnt the fittest. But I might be off, since I do not know IC events.

So I should blame everyone else that played with me that didn't produce... when their characters did not have the skill?  That sounds just as productive as blaming you personally for not coming to my character to provide the cures.  I like this plan.  It's your fault.

Oh, and Lakota, I am direct.  I have a problem.  I state it.  You have a problem with me doing so, don't clutter up a thread about what I see an issue.  Stay on topic.  Oh, and don't defend people for derailing a thread.  Threads have subjects for a reason on a discussion board.

[Clearsighted]

Bud, the core of the issue is that your character had very little contact with anybody else. That put you in a great deal of disadvantage. Including lack of antidotes, lack of good armor, lack of good weapons, lack of anything that you yourself couldnt make. You shouldnt blame the poison, you should blame your tribemates (if this was of a tribe), who've failed to create a reasonable supply of antidotes for their buddies. Or you should blame the harsh rules of the tribe, for generally making people survive on their own, exercising survival of the fittest. Your character ... wasnt the fittest. But I might be off, since I do not know IC events.

So I should blame everyone else that played with me that didn't produce... when their characters did not have the skill?  That sounds just as productive as blaming you personally for not coming to my character to provide the cures.  I like this plan.  It's your fault.

Oh, and Lakota, I am direct.  I have a problem.  I state it.  You have a problem with me doing so, don't clutter up a thread about what I see an issue.  Stay on topic.  Oh, and don't defend people for derailing a thread.  Threads have subjects for a reason on a discussion board.

I'd say that if there weren't a single person in your Clan that not only was unable to make a tablet, but that furthermore, lacked the ability to even acquire one without twinking (if acquiring cures for basic poisons is somehow twinking), whether themselves or through some other contact...That you were just unlucky and paying the toll for being in a iso clan. For the vast majority of the playerbase, all but the rarest of poisons are 20-50 sid inconvenience already. And the 'rarest' poisons not only have a higher fail rate, but with recent code changes, it is far more easier to snap out of the state they put into. 

[FightClub]

Then why even post, e-mail.

An email doesn't send my message to the entire playerbase that may feel similarly.  An email will probably only be seen by one person that may just disagree with me, and I don't care to be swept under the carpet by one person.  It'll take a platoon.

A-typically people do not read what Spawnloser posts, because A-typically spawnloser is ranting away with his "better than all" speech.  As opposed to people not reading what I post because I troll.  Anyway, I have my doubts that you'll get much of anything from anyone, because you are spawnloser, should've used an alternative account, does wonders.

Bud, the core of the issue is that your character had very little contact with anybody else. That put you in a great deal of disadvantage. Including lack of antidotes, lack of good armor, lack of good weapons, lack of anything that you yourself couldnt make. You shouldnt blame the poison, you should blame your tribemates (if this was of a tribe), who've failed to create a reasonable supply of antidotes for their buddies. Or you should blame the harsh rules of the tribe, for generally making people survive on their own, exercising survival of the fittest. Your character ... wasnt the fittest. But I might be off, since I do not know IC events.

So I should blame everyone else that played with me that didn't produce... when their characters did not have the skill?  That sounds just as productive as blaming you personally for not coming to my character to provide the cures.  I like this plan.  It's your fault.

Oh, and Lakota, I am direct.  I have a problem.  I state it.  You have a problem with me doing so, don't clutter up a thread about what I see an issue.  Stay on topic.  Oh, and don't defend people for derailing a thread.  Threads have subjects for a reason on a discussion board.

And don't tell people what to do, you're not a moderator, you're not an imm, leave it to those who are qualified for the matter.

[Ammut]

I've lost quite a few characters to bloodburn, basically because I didn't have tablets.  Only one character miraculously survived after being unconscious outside of the Allanak gates for like 6 hours in game (why no one killed him or took his stuff, I don't know). 

Even my dwarves who supposedly have some crazy poison resistance are affected by bloodburn to the point that I've almost died waiting to see if I would just... shrug it off.  I had to pop a tablet and was pretty irritated that my endurance wasn't able to fight off the affects.

I think poisons should be re-looked, yes.  I think that some classes rely on poisons, so it would be unfair to make it difficult to kill someone with them if they had above average endurance or more.  I'm not sure where to draw the line, but I think it should be re-drawn, or perhaps make certain types of those poisons either weaker/stronger.

[Olgaris]

Stop being snippy jerks.