The Formal Title for Hlum Nobles

[Ourla]

However, in Tuluk, templars only and always come from noble houses, not merchant houses.

Or they're bred like racehorses. 

Scary, scary racehorses.

[Adhira]

Hlum do not lose their noble title, the only Chosen who are likely to become 'Un-Chosen' are consorts, who are slightly different than the Hlum given their nobility as Grey Hunt winners. Consorts are Chosen for the life of their noble, Grey Hunt winning, partner. In effect the noble has Chosen them and Muk Utep has agreed.

Once the noble dies the Consort is allowed to return to their previous life without attached stigma, they would be thought of as a loyal Tuluki citizen though in no way would they be regarded as nobility any longer.

[Lizzie]

Ah, that definitely clears up some confusion Adhira, thank you!

[KIA]

Once the noble dies the Consort is allowed to return to their previous life without attached stigma, they would be thought of as a loyal Tuluki citizen though in no way would they be regarded as nobility any longer.

This begs the question: does the Consort have to be chosen at the time when the Hlum title is won? Other Chosen would never consider it possible to marry a commoner, but I wonder if the Hlum Chosen can forgo this technicality for the proper partner. That he can also try to move into a Surif family seems to be a possibility according to this thread.

[Tlaloc]

I would imagine that it would be possible (and may be a smart move) for a Hlum to marry a Surif. And even though they may be the red-headed step-children of the Tuluki nobility, in some instances, a Surif may actually want to marry a Hlum. All of that would likely depend on the political landscape of Tuluk at the time.

I always imagined it to be like Dune: one could imagine Duke Leto to be like a Hlum (or even a Surif noble), skipping over hitching up with his One True Love in order to hold out for a political arrangement that could eventually lead him to the Throne. Eventually, things don't work out for him: one of his best friends stabs him in the back, yanks out his teeth, and destroys his House; he blows his one last chance to kill his archenemy before he dies, who turns around and kills the aformentioned former best friend, and enslaves another; and, finally, he regrets his decision to never have hitched his commoner girlfriend - a very Armageddon end.

I would note that Hlum titles make Partisanship much more interesting. I would imagine that a if you're a Surif, a Hlum in your pocket is better than a Hlum in the pocket of your rivals. Thus, if a Grey Hunt rolls around, you may want to support your Partisans over someone else's Partisans (unless you have some sort of 'arrangement'). Worse: someone who isn't a Partisan of any kind at all! I would imagine, even, that the Templarate may note a spike in the number of assassination licences for Partisans (and even non-partisans) coincidentally peaking around the time of Grey Hunts. I always imagined Grey Hunt periods to be intrigue-filled times, with entrants mysteriously having spates of "accidents" and "illnessess" and occasionally falling down "sets of stairs" onto "an open crate of poisoned knives".

Such is the price of Nobility.

[bardbard#4]

I likewise, think that Hlum are probably apt to marry into a Surif House for political reasons.

You may be putting too much southern sauce on your northern ideas, bardbard#4 

I guess really the point I'm trying to make, and I think Tlaloc reaffirmed this, is that ALL Tuluki marriages have a pragmatic/political reason behind them.  It would be extremely rare for a low-ranking noble to pick who they get to marry, be it a Hlum or Surif they have their eye on.  Having played a noble who tried to do this, I can attest to the fact that I hit a fairly immovable road block from above.

[tortall]

I likewise, think that Hlum are probably apt to marry into a Surif House for political reasons.

You may be putting too much southern sauce on your northern ideas, bardbard#4 

I guess really the point I'm trying to make, and I think Tlaloc reaffirmed this, is that ALL Tuluki marriages have a pragmatic/political reason behind them.  It would be extremely rare for a low-ranking noble to pick who they get to marry, be it a Hlum or Surif they have their eye on.  Having played a noble who tried to do this, I can attest to the fact that I hit a fairly immovable road block from above.

HAHAHA! So, not only can Tuluki nobles not have sex, but they can't even choose who they MARRY?! ROFL!!! HAHAHAHA! Poor nobles... ~snickers~

[bardbard#4]

I likewise, think that Hlum are probably apt to marry into a Surif House for political reasons.

You may be putting too much southern sauce on your northern ideas, bardbard#4 

I guess really the point I'm trying to make, and I think Tlaloc reaffirmed this, is that ALL Tuluki marriages have a pragmatic/political reason behind them.  It would be extremely rare for a low-ranking noble to pick who they get to marry, be it a Hlum or Surif they have their eye on.  Having played a noble who tried to do this, I can attest to the fact that I hit a fairly immovable road block from above.

HAHAHA! So, not only can Tuluki nobles not have sex, but they can't even choose who they MARRY?! ROFL!!! HAHAHAHA! Poor nobles... ~snickers~

Uh...ya.  Pretty much.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

I don't think any nobles, or even very many people out of merchant houses, get to choose who they marry.  Marriage in Arm is more like a contract designed to bear children and bring a certain amount of prestige to each family.  No one else gets married, except in exceedingly rare and unusual circumstances.

So... yeah.

I would be amused at the number of merchants/nobles who have probably snuck in Sekret Lovers' babies into their houses without the house knowing.  I mean, what are they going to do?  Paternity test the little bastard?  Highly unlikely. 

[Tisiphone]

I would be amused at the number of merchants/nobles who have probably snuck in Sekret Lovers' babies into their houses with the house knowing, because who cares? They make good, trustworthy servants. 

[Shiroi Tsuki]

That too, what.

[amish overlord]

I would see hlum's as very prestigious and looked up to by commoners, they did some great accomplishment besides just being born to be a noble. A surif house might want some of that prestige to rub off on them and may work with that hlum or even marry them into the family. Another possibility is for a noble who somehow falls in love with some lowly commoner, aiding them in winning the title and then getting that marriage.

Amish Overlord 

[Rahnevyn]

This begs the question: does the Consort have to be chosen at the time when the Hlum title is won? Other Chosen would never consider it possible to marry a commoner, but I wonder if the Hlum Chosen can forgo this technicality for the proper partner. That he can also try to move into a Surif family seems to be a possibility according to this thread.

The Consort does have to be chosen at the time when the Hlum is won. It's intended to allow for the Hlum to bring a pre-existing lover up with him so he isn't driven crazy(er) by caste restrictions. It's very different from a southern noble choosing a concubine(s) in that the consort must have a prior relationship and attachment, not just be a pretty face picked from a lineup.