Can my PC really punch yours? Brawl Anywhere

[Sephiroto]

I'd like to brawl anywhere.  Brawling outside of taverns would give melee-only emotes, i.e., pushes, shoves, punching in the face, but not smashing mugs of ale or throwing barstools.

Why?  Well, as far as I know there is no way to make an aggressive, non-combat roll against someone to aid in RP.  I really don't want to powermote grabbing someone and punching them in the nose.  If I do this, whether or not I have the skill to, the other person can emote dodging out of the way.  Or dodging then punching me back.

Sometimes though you've just got to that jerk in the alley eat a knuckle sandwitch, and using the "kill" command to prove your combat prowress isn't condusive to keeping either character alive.

[FantasyWriter]

I agree, ESPECIALLY since brawl (hit) and kill are completely separate commands now.

[brytta.leofa]

Mm...getting roughed on the street up by a gang of grizzled Bynners...

But if the crime code weren't so thorough, I'd say that brawling in the presence of militia and outside of a tavern should be a flaggable offense.  (I'd love to see an overhaul of the interdiction code, by the way: particularly, less lethality in breaking up a fight, and more use of things like clubs and saps.)

[KIA]

I'd like someone to brawl me in the street and get what's coming to them. Not from the law. From me.

[ale six]

Get rid of the chintzy canned brawl emotes and I'd be all for it.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Three thumbs up.  I don't know who the third belongs to, but now that the syntax is separated, I would love to be able to take a swing at someone anywhere without immediately throwing myself at them in a fist-flailing attempt to beat the shit out of them.

[Fathi]

I think there should be certain exceptions to 'anywhere', because in Arm, there really are areas that are high-class enough or chock full of enough paranoid guards that throwing a punch at somebody probably should still initiate incrimination.

If I try to punch a guy out in the Ivory Pyramid or the Rennik Arboretum, I'd still expect my PC to get hauled off to jail or at least kicked out of the establishment, provided my character isn't a noble or templar.

Otherwise, hell yes.

[KIA]

New command:

Code Select Expand

>hit test

This would let you know if you can brawl in the room or not.

[fourTwenty]

New command:

Code Select Expand

>hit test

This would let you know if you can brawl in the room or not.

Not New, been around for a long time. Also not the point exactly.

I think it'd be nice to be able to beat the shit out of somebody -almost- anywhere. Would really help with the rugged and harshness thing.

[elvenchipmunk]

I think there should be certain exceptions to 'anywhere', because in Arm, there really are areas that are high-class enough or chock full of enough paranoid guards that throwing a punch at somebody probably should still initiate incrimination.

If I try to punch a guy out in the Ivory Pyramid or the Rennik Arboretum, I'd still expect my PC to get hauled off to jail or at least kicked out of the establishment, provided my character isn't a noble or templar.

Otherwise, hell yes.

Placing NPC soldiers in these areas will cause incrimination currently. Of course, it might not be possible to put a soldier in every adjacent room, but you could cover some decent area by doing this.

Flagging all of those rooms is a more thorough possibility and is of course better.

[Synthesis]

I think "rugged harshness" within the city walls is supposed to be meted out by the guards, not by your random commoner with a bad attitude.

In Allanak, I'd be more inclined to think that Templars would settle the urge to brawl in the streets by simply tossing all of your punk asses into the Arena.

[fourTwenty]

I think "rugged harshness" within the city walls is supposed to be meted out by the guards, not by your random commoner with a bad attitude.

In Allanak, I'd be more inclined to think that Templars would settle the urge to brawl in the streets by simply tossing all of your punk asses into the Arena.

Think of the great RP situations.
"Feck you"
"No, Feck you"
dude takes a swing
templar shows up
asses fry

[Bogre]

I like the ideas of commoners being able to knock someone else in the jaw, without it looking like they're trying to seriously murder the other person.

[Riev]

I like the ideas of commoners being able to knock someone else in the jaw, without it looking like they're trying to seriously murder the other person.

This.

I've had a couple opportunities outside the walls where I'd get into a fight, and I noticed that if I disengaged after typing kill, and then emoting, the other person would actually emote back. (This does -not- happen all the time)

It would be mucho bettero if I could just hit them, if they were mouthing off. Maybe they're a badass warrior, and I shouldn't have hit them. Maybe -I- am the badass warrior and they need to watch their tongue. I can see this being especially useful in 'Nak where you want someone to shut up, but don't have the coin to bribe a templar, or time to wait outside the gates with a crossbow and a burlap sack.

[Dar]

You know. You 'can' swing at someone without power emoting. Just leave the success of the punch open ended. And if the guy is prefers to rp superman and dodges all blows, then convince him otherwise through a coded fight. Shrug.

[Fathi]

You know. You 'can' swing at someone without power emoting. Just leave the success of the punch open ended. And if the guy is prefers to rp superman and dodges all blows, then convince him otherwise through a coded fight. Shrug.

The problem with your scenario is that if you did that, under most circumstances, it would end with your character being incriminated by the crime code and either dragged off to jail or slaughtered by somewhere between two and seventy thousand soldiers in a gratuitous display of law enforcement overkill worthy of a Tarantino movie.

I support this code change because I think it's silly that every soldier within the city limits suddenly would want my character dead or imprisoned for punching somebody.

[Dar]

You know. You 'can' swing at someone without power emoting. Just leave the success of the punch open ended. And if the guy is prefers to rp superman and dodges all blows, then convince him otherwise through a coded fight. Shrug.

The problem with your scenario is that if you did that, under most circumstances, it would end with your character being incriminated by the crime code and either dragged off to jail or slaughtered by somewhere between two and seventy thousand soldiers in a gratuitous display of law enforcement overkill worthy of a Tarantino movie.

I support this code change because I think it's silly that every soldier within the city limits suddenly would want my character dead or imprisoned for punching somebody.

I fail to see the problem. If you want to just 'punch' someone, use emote. If they choose to evade all your punches and you dont get satisfied, go all out, crazy like, which is kill. Then it stops being a matter of just a singular punch and becomes  an all out fight. Personally, I dont even 'like' brawling code all so much. Just emote a fight out, leave each punch open ended, let your target choose if it's succesfull or not. Or goad them into three cuts outside the city and make the three cuts twenty.

[RogueGunslinger]

You havent been in many all emote fights have you?

I'd say i'm only satisfied with them about 33% of the time.

[Qzzrbl]

It's ridiculous that my 5000 day warrior open-end emote-punches at a 1 day blind, legless midget merchant who can just "emote laughs as he totally dodges your punch".

And yes, it happens.

Alot.

I want to just knock the shit out of someone without guards crawling up my ass. And I don't want to wait until it's late at night, or before dawn to do it.

I really think the guards should stop giving shits about unarmed fights.

I mean, if someone pulls a knife, then yeah, they've gotta step in and do their thing.

I'd like to see guards give verbal warnings before whipping out their greatswords and cleaving you in two, maybe a, "In the name of Tektolnes, break it up!", and if the brawling continues, they try to arrest.

Maybe give the guards a few more dimensions than the subdue/killbots they currently are.

It would also be neat if you could give guards a few hundred coins to have them ignore whatever crime you're about to commit.

Let's say you want to shank someone as they leave the Gaj.

Pay off the guards in the perimeter a thousand or so a piece, and proceed to shank as they turn their heads.

[Sephiroto]

Personally, I'd rather not rely on the "kill" command to show someone that I have the upper hand. 

Conversely, if I don't have the upper hand, I'd rather not find out by using the "kill" command.  If the other guy wants to be an OOC jerk he can forget to type "disengage."

This is an RP game, but we demand on the code telling us just how much we can do.  Like, if I have a 1 day Krathi it would be be a bad idea to emote a great big ball of fire falling from the sky and burning everything.  But, if I have a 30 day Krathi with the "Pits of Suk-Krath" spell, then the great big ball of fire emote would probably be more acceptable in accordance with skill.

[Riev]

It's ridiculous that my 5000 day warrior open-end emote-punches at a 1 day blind, legless midget merchant who can just "emote laughs as he totally dodges your punch".

And yes, it happens.

Alot.

I want to just knock the shit out of someone without guards crawling up my ass. And I don't want to wait until it's late at night, or before dawn to do it.

I really think the guards should stop giving shits about unarmed fights.

I mean, if someone pulls a knife, then yeah, they've gotta step in and do their thing.

I'd like to see guards give verbal warnings before whipping out their greatswords and cleaving you in two, maybe a, "In the name of Tektolnes, break it up!", and if the brawling continues, they try to arrest.

Maybe give the guards a few more dimensions than the subdue/killbots they currently are.

It would also be neat if you could give guards a few hundred coins to have them ignore whatever crime you're about to commit.

Let's say you want to shank someone as they leave the Gaj.

Pay off the guards in the perimeter a thousand or so a piece, and proceed to shank as they turn their heads.

You can do most of this, but sadly it would require immtervention. You can also pay off a PC guard to take the patrols away from the area where you're going to be fighting (I'm pretty sure they can do that) and you would have a few squares to do your thing. Can't do much about the crim-code though.

Guard don't really attack you for crimes, as much as they do notice you got crimflagged. You could be a rogue 'gicker, or you tripper over Lord Fancyboots' fancy boots, the guards will react the same. Perhaps the code needs to change in crimcode insomuch as not just jailtime dependent on crime committed, but how aggro the guards are?

[Gimfalisette]

You can also pay off a PC guard to take the patrols away from the area where you're going to be fighting (I'm pretty sure they can do that) and you would have a few squares to do your thing. Can't do much about the crim-code though.

PC soldiers cannot give NPC soldiers orders, so no, paying off a PC soldier won't work for this.

[fourTwenty]

It's ridiculous that my 5000 day warrior open-end emote-punches at a 1 day blind, legless midget merchant who can just "emote laughs as he totally dodges your punch".

And yes, it happens.

Alot.

I want to just knock the shit out of someone without guards crawling up my ass. And I don't want to wait until it's late at night, or before dawn to do it.

I really think the guards should stop giving shits about unarmed fights.

I mean, if someone pulls a knife, then yeah, they've gotta step in and do their thing.

I'd like to see guards give verbal warnings before whipping out their greatswords and cleaving you in two, maybe a, "In the name of Tektolnes, break it up!", and if the brawling continues, they try to arrest.

Maybe give the guards a few more dimensions than the subdue/killbots they currently are.

It would also be neat if you could give guards a few hundred coins to have them ignore whatever crime you're about to commit.

Let's say you want to shank someone as they leave the Gaj.

Pay off the guards in the perimeter a thousand or so a piece, and proceed to shank as they turn their heads.

All great ideas.

One thing I do wish could be adjusted is the lawlessness in 'Nak. As it stands it's stricter than the town I live in IRL. Maybe the guards could not give a crap to varying degrees depending on the soldier. One that the player would actually have no idea to. Say one soldier may step in the instant a punch is thrown and another may go so far as to even let murder slide if it's not a popular area. Maybe he just doesn't care. But don't let the players know where that limit for each guard is. Let us bribe the guard to possibly up that limit. Include proper checks and fails and make it a robust system.

As far as beating somebody down with no guard in sight. Should be way legal, I mean RL is supposed to be less harsh than Arm and there's a pretty good chance you can get in a fight with somebody, knock them out, and casually walk off quickly IRL. Also, emoted fights suck, 33% would be nice. I've had a Byn Sergeant try to back hand a teenage merchant and , of course, miss badly. (Though that situation happened to be in a brawlable area so I let the code back me up a little bit.)

All that said, I really like the recent changes in the crim code. I know there's been a tiny bit of not-the-greatest RP related to it but I haven't seen much at -all-. The recent changes actually make me think twice about using certain streets and stuff, it's great.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I would be happy to see the command 'hit person' initiate the combat code. You could only use hit if you had no weapons equipped. If you were IN a room with soldiers, outside of a tavern, the crim code would kick in. In ANY OTHER SCENARIO, it would not. When you used hit to get someone, the code would put a flag on you called 'brawler'. Soldiers NOT in the room with you would not take notice of you. If you used the command 'draw weapon' or EP or ES, the code would delete the 'brawler' flag from you.


A City Road [EW]
This road winds through the common quarters of Manthalis. Shacks
and lean-toes line the road, and refuse clogs the byways. The citizens
hurry along through this area, heads down, intent on their business.
A dark-skinned ruffian stands here, looking menacing.
A bent, bowed woman walks by, a basket on her back.
A broken mullish slave tends to the refuse here.

You walk over to a dark-skinned ruffian, sneering at him.

>hit ruffian
Your hit grazes a dark-skinned ruffian on the arm.
Your hit grazes a dark-skinned ruffian on the neck.
A dark-skinned ruffian reels.

A dark-skinned ruffian kicks you hard.
A dark-skinned ruffian hits you on the body.
A dark-skinned ruffian barely grazes you on the neck.

A lanky white-clad soldier has arrived from the west.

Your hit grazes a dark-skinned ruffian on the arm.
Your hit grazes a dark-skinned ruffian on the neck.
A dark-skinned ruffian reels.

A dark-skinned ruffian draws an obsidian dagger.

A lanky white-clad soldier draws a bone club.
A lanky white-clad soldier says, in sirihish:
  "Ho, there ... no murder."
A lanky white-clad soldier clubs a dark-skinned ruffian on the head, wounding him.
A dark-skinned ruffian crumbles to the ground.
An obsidian dagger clatters to the ground.

A thick white-clad mullish soldier has arrived from the west.
A thick white-clad soldier subdues a dark-skinned ruffian.

[Qzzrbl]

But some of us just wanna belt someone across the jaw once, not the full-on laying into the other person with your fists that the combat code brings on.

Though I would like it if 7DV's scenario came into play too.

I just want unarmed combat in general to lose the insta-crim, unless there's a guard directly in the room with you, or if you were in a very crowded area.

A fight breaking out in the markets at high sun, I could see someone screaming for the guards to break it up after a few rounds of combat go through. But nobody would say anything if I just punched my buddy in the face for being an ass, with no further attackage.

And it would be nice if the guards did just that, break it up. No uber-death mob, no dragging away to the jails to idle for twenty minutes, just breaking it up and sending the brawlers on their way.

[Kryos]

I'd love to see the ability to fistfight everywhere.  And crim code support the less-lethal engagements.  Definitely a pro move.

[musashi]

I confess, I was very tempted to cut and paste your "I can't see that this adds anything meaningful to the game, you can do it on your own if you want to." bit from a different thread and put it here, but ... sorry, just a moment of weakness.

In terms of gaining the most, while working the least, I think it would be a good idea if the current brawl code was used ... but the areas where it was ok to use it were increased quite a bit (like, making it ok everywhere except places like in front of the noble's quarter, the Artrium, ect ect, places where the guards would take issue with even a simple brawl) ... and ... if we did away with the auto-emotes that the brawl code throws out, and just left it to people to emote it themselves, so we could do something like:

emo throws a punch at %sillylittlemerchant jaw.
hit sillylittlemerchant
You punch the silly little merchant, making solid contact.

... ... Now the silly little merchant would look like an idiot for emoting that he dodged away with the quickness of the ninja, and the bawl code wouldn't look so clumsy when you try to RP while using it.