Return Armageddon to its roots: Double all Movement Costs

[Winterless]

I also agree that you absolutely would need to at least make a stop mid-way, no matter what you travel in, or on.

I do this anyway for the sake of RP and haven't really seen many others not stop either.

[Heade]

Not to derail here, but AIM blast chat? There like a channel for Arm players or something?

[Sephiroto]

I am with Mansa.  Make mounts with high move more expensive.  MUCH more expensive.  Add NPC's.  Maybe not gith (because of copywrite stuff) but something else.

Gone are the days of the 3gith raiding parts and their gnarled spears that killed so many PC's.  I kind of want those back.  I want tembo crawling out of the Grey Forst -all the time-.  I want gortok infestations.  I want to see raptor run amuck.

I don't want to see double move points.  Now I'll just see nothing but gritty, blowing sand for twice as long be cause really there's not much else out there.

[Qzzrbl]

I don't want to see double move points.  Now I'll just see nothing but gritty, blowing sand for twice as long be cause really there's not much else out there.

[broken record]As soon as you can no longer see three rooms out in the desert, get somewhere safe.[/broken record]

"But with having to spend double move points per move, I won't be able to get back in time!"

Don't venture so far away from safe places.

[Fathi]

Yes, Qzz. We know you have no sympathy for anyone. We know you're so hardcore. We get it. I'm sitting here being impressed by you.

[Sephiroto]

I don't want to see double move points.  Now I'll just see nothing but gritty, blowing sand for twice as long be cause really there's not much else out there.

[broken record]As soon as you can no longer see three rooms out in the desert, get somewhere safe.[/broken record]

"But with having to spend double move points per move, I won't be able to get back in time!"

Don't venture so far away from safe places.

I'm not talking about being stuck in a sandstorm.  I'm talking about the Zalanthan wilderness being so freaking boring lately that all I see are sparsely blowing sands and .1% danger instead of 1000% danger.

[Qzzrbl]

Yes, Qzz. We know you have no sympathy for anyone. We know you're so hardcore. We get it. I'm sitting here being impressed by you.

I just get tired of people getting surprised when they die in the desert, or how hard it is to travel in the desert when a lot of their troubles could be easily avoided. It has nothing do to with being hardcore or not having sympathy, or trying to impress you.... Sorry. 

[Qzzrbl]

I don't want to see double move points.  Now I'll just see nothing but gritty, blowing sand for twice as long be cause really there's not much else out there.

[broken record]As soon as you can no longer see three rooms out in the desert, get somewhere safe.[/broken record]

"But with having to spend double move points per move, I won't be able to get back in time!"

Don't venture so far away from safe places.

I'm not talking about being stuck in a sandstorm.  I'm talking about the Zalanthan wilderness being so freaking boring lately that all I see are sparsely blowing sands and .1% danger instead of 1000% danger.

Oh.... Yeah. Agreed then.

[Lizzie]

I just get tired of people getting surprised when they die in the desert, or how hard it is to travel in the desert when a lot of their troubles could be easily avoided. It has nothing do to with being hardcore or not having sympathy, or trying to impress you.... Sorry. 

...could be easily avoided by making it -harder- to travel in the desert? You acknowledge that it -is- hard to travel in the desert. You acknowledge that other people know this - whether they already knew because they've been playing Arm long enough to find out, or they found out just yesterday, is irrelevent. They know. It's dangerous out there. So why again are you so emphatic about making it harder?

All it will do, is punish people who play characters that LIVE outside the cities...and players who play characters who are clanned in houses as employees required to WORK outside the cities, and bring more people back INTO the cities to sit on stools in bars, wishing their lives away and being bored to tears because they don't have a group of people big enough to go with them.

Yeah that sounds like a fun game. Put me first in line.

The reason people are so annoyed with the current way things are, is because those people have learned their way around it all. They've learned about "that carru" that a LOT of people have never experienced. They have been told over AIM, or in IRC chat, or in other ways, about this or that death-trap hole you can fall into, so they know to look for a hole when they're in "that" part of the game. And they don't have  to look for any holes in "that other" part of the game, because their best Arm pal who introduced them was so kind to tell them there was no hole there.

So all the "secret surprises" and spawn points of critters and death traps and dangers and locations of hiding gith have been exposed to lots and lots of people, mostly people who know how to avoid them, or are instructed how to avoid them.

My answer to those people: sucks to be you. Really. If Armageddon is so boring to you, go play somewhere else. I'm not bored at all. When I ride down "that" corridor of non-city road, my heart thumps like crazy because I know that at any moment, a wayward "some kind of critter" might pop around the corner. I know that the moment I step foot into the grasslands, I might get accosted by a wandering bahamet who chased a duskhorn too close to the gate. I know that my next step away from Allanak could be the step that convinces Mister Mekillot that there's a tasty treat just around the corner.

Just because YOU believe, or were informed, or know, that these critters are few and far between, doesn't mean I know it. And if I don't know it, then all you're doing by "harshening" this game world, is giving YOU some new surprises to learn about and exploit, while making it more difficult for me to even -want- to play.

Here's an idea to make things harsher for you all: turn off your AIM, and get out of IRC chat, and destroy that map that everyone insists doesn't exist.

[Qzzrbl]

I just get tired of people getting surprised when they die in the desert, or how hard it is to travel in the desert when a lot of their troubles could be easily avoided. It has nothing do to with being hardcore or not having sympathy, or trying to impress you.... Sorry. 

...could be easily avoided by making it -harder- to travel in the desert? You acknowledge that it -is- hard to travel in the desert. You acknowledge that other people know this - whether they already knew because they've been playing Arm long enough to find out, or they found out just yesterday, is irrelevent. They know. It's dangerous out there. So why again are you so emphatic about making it harder?

That's not exactly the point I was trying to get across.

The desert is dangerous sure.... sometimes.

It's not uniformly dangerous all around. People can go back and forth from Tuluk to Allanak with no problems for a good long time, and a lot of people do this on a regular basis.

I want it to be dangerous -all the time-.

Not just every now and then.

I don't want it harshened so I can feel a little bit of a thrill when getting from point A to point B. I want it harshened so the game will actually be harsh, just like it's touted to be.

Nobody hires the Byn anymore.

Why?

Travel is too easy.

Nobody ever really hires desert guides anymore.

Why?

Desert's too safe.

Sure, travel can be hard and dangerous. But not as often as it should be.

I've never had the feeling of, "Phew, I'm so lucky to have gotten from Red Storm to Tuluk -on foot- with no troubles whatsoever."

Ever.

Since I started the game.

I always hear people talking about how harsh the game used to be, and I'd like to experience that, and I'm sure a lot of other people would too.

[Fathi]

Nobody hires the Byn anymore.

Why?

Travel is too easy.

Nobody ever really hires desert guides anymore.

Why?

Desert's too safe.

I try to hire both on a regular basis and normally get shot down like the president of the AV Club on prom night. With common grebbers, with leaders, with a noble, and I've seen other PCs get similarly rejected.

If Bynners and desert guides wanted more work, they'd be getting it. Trust me.

As long as rangers try to charge 400+ coins just to ride somebody through a storm without guarding them... they won't get hired much.

As long as Byn sergeants say that escort/guard contracts are "beneath them," they won't get many jobs like that.

I do agree that travel between the cities is too easy, but I fail to see how making it plodding and slow makes it more dangerous at all. If nothing's out there to pounce you while you're resting, resting just prolongs the trip. It doesn't make it dangerous or tense.




I think the solution to making travel more dangerous is to reopen gith as a playable race.

Edited for clarity. I mix words up.

[musashi]

I am behind the idea of making the main roads and well known travel routes much more dangerous than they currently are as I've said in my post before (I think that would revive the need for Byn escourt, and desert guides) ... but uniformly dangerous all throughout the entire waste seems like a bit much to me if that equates to aggro-mobs in every other room, all pumped to the point that only 5+ day old warriors can stand a chance against them.

I think that if one stays off the main roads and takes to the wilderness instead, it should hold different hazards, but in terms of aggro-mobs, I think a very slight increase, if any, is all that would be needed for areas not on the main path. What do I mean by different hazards?

Sandstorms.
Having to climb cliffs/Avoid holes.
Perhaps the need to sneak through some tribe's territory.
Needing to rest more often because there isn't a road, hence the journey taking longer.
Dark tunnels through the Shield Wall.
And Lastly ... perhpas running afoul of a nasty animal out on the hunt.

I'm all for raiders on the road, because as people wanting to raid, they know they stand a better chance of finding people on the north road than they do standing in the middle of the grasslands watching the whipleaf grow.

But I don't like the idea of raptors/carru/gortok/other monsters of the week prowling the north road. Those animals probably do not consider sentient beings their main source of food (carru eat plants for God's sake) ... ... ... ok well maybe scarabs do but other than them ... I feel like those animals should be staying clear of the roads by and large since they should have figured out by now that approaching the argosy = being dead.

I hope that's comming across clear. I'd like two seperate types of dangers for the wilds. Danger for the folks who want to move through it like merchants and "from city to city travellers" (ie on the roads), and different dangers for the folks who live in the desert or travel through it without feeling the need to stick to the path ... like your rangers, solo-magickers, tribals, and so on.

[staggerlee]

An idea brought up by Psionic Fungus on the AIM Blast chat is that you increase the movement delay when you are "outside".   I definitely do not think that increasing the movement penalty will solve anything, except to keep players who do not have enough time on their hands.

Did someone else bring that up?

No. But it's another good idea.

Yeah I suggested that in another thread, and stand by it.  Hell, leave roads at normal delay, I'm only interested in wilderness rooms.

[Is Friday]

Nobody hires the Byn anymore.

Why?

Travel is too easy.

Nobody ever really hires desert guides anymore.

Why?

Desert's too safe.

I try to hire both on a regular basis and normally get shot down like the president of the AV Club on prom night. With common grebbers, with leaders, with a noble, and I've seen other PCs get similarly rejected.

If Bynners and desert guides wanted more work, they'd be getting it. Trust me.

As long as rangers try to charge 400+ coins just to ride somebody through a storm without guarding them... they won't get hired much.

As long as Byn sergeants say that escort/guard contracts are "beneath them," they won't get many jobs like that.

I do agree that travel between the cities is too easy, but I fail to see how making it plodding and slow makes it more dangerous at all. If nothing's out there to pounce you while you're resting, resting just prolongs the trip. It doesn't make it dangerous or tense.




I think the solution to making travel more dangerous is to reopen gith as a playable race.

Edited for clarity. I mix words up.

When I was in the byn I hated simple guard contracts simply because it wasn't dangerous. Put me in the byn doing the same "boring" escorting contracts during the age of gith captains and marauding raptor packs, hells yes I'm taking those contracts.

[Kryos]

I can't agree that this needs to be done.  I've recently seen that the north road is not NEARLY so safe as claims have been made.  The balance of travel seems just about right here, and newbs(read people like me) still get slaughtered horribly for exploring.  Further, this only polarizes even further the people who know the game in and out and those that don't.  Doubling the movement costs just exploits ooc knowledge.  I do not want.

[Lizzie]

There's really only one thing that "needs" to be done, to give everyone much more of a rush when venturaing out of cities:

randomize the spawn points.

If you don't know that "the carru" is going to show up in "that" room...

even if you know there's a carru somewhere along this area...somewhere..maybe..

then you'll re-gain that element of surprise that seems to be lacking in the minds and enjoyment of some players.

If you don't know that the tembo is within chasing distance today - whereas 2 RL days ago it spawned 20 rooms deeper into the area...

if you don't know that the trio of gortoks is spawning today 5 rooms southwest of the gate, instead of 25...

if they're not just chasing people to those spots, but actually spawning in those spots..

raptors, spawning 1 room off the road, instead of 2?

even meks - showing up at a closer spot on the grid to the road outside the merchant gate than usual..

but still allow a "perimeter of safety" for spawn points so nothing is spawning ON the road...or on the room just outside the gate...

since it doesn't make sense for these critters to *want* to be in those locations..but there's nothing stopping them from wanting to be close enough to smell your sweat when you venture out to the unknown.

In summary, provide more of an unknown factor. More critters will mean *nothing* once everyone learns where those critters are spawning. We'll be right back where we are now, with people begging for changes to make it more dangerous.

I repeat - the only reason it isn't dangerous, is because you the player know how to avoid the danger. Randomize the spawn points, and you will cease to know, and your challenge will be restored.

[FantasyWriter]

Doubling movement points will not make the wild seem harsher IC. Just make trips longer and possibly a Pain in the back OOCly.

More NPCs baddies would make desert travel harsher.

More expensive mounts and the fear of loosing them would make dessert travel harsher.

A byn Sgt. that won't take contracts (never seen this happen when they had the men for the job) should be quickly disposed of by a trooper who things he knows better.



If you think it should take more than 5 minutes to get from point A to point B, MAKE IT TAKE MORE THAN FIVE MINUTES.
If you don't want to wait on staff to make the road more dangerous, find an IC reason to go off road (will be more dangerous AND take longer).




PS- All you people that keep bringing up the staff opening/reopening a PC raiding clan... BUILD A PC RAIDING CLAN IC.

[Thunkkin]

There's really only one thing that "needs" to be done, to give everyone much more of a rush when venturing out of cities:

This.

As a newb, I still wet myself every time something unexpected wanders into the same room as me.  I want you all to have that damp, self-wetted feeling, too.

Also, for the random spawnpoints, make "special spawns" occasionally possible.  If I may be so crass as to pull a suggestion from WoW ... occasionally, have an "elite" spawn where a normal critter would.  An old, scarred, albino raptor or an especially cunning gortok or an especially hungry halfling.  Or, a 1/100 chance that in the lone gith spawn spot, a small war-band will spawn and then head for the nearest road.  That way, randomly, once every few RL weeks, there will be a real threat on the roads that needs to be taken care of, but it will be random, so no one can quite plan on it but also automated, so the staff don't have to spend time making a special event (once the first coding has been done).

[musashi]

I think we might be sort of saying the same things over and over now.

[brytta.leofa]

Two opinions to throw out there:

(1) Increasing off-road movement cost will severely hurt hunters.  Unless they're all road-huntin'.

(2) Danger in the wilderness: persistent, low-level danger is good and makes people careful.  Rare, high-level danger doesn't make people careful, it just makes 'em dead.

[Delstro]

I say:
Lower max Stamina to 75% of what it is now.
Add in more mid level threats to the road.

[tortall]

I say:
Lower max Stamina to 75% of what it is now.
Add in more mid level threats to the road.

My current stam in 113, 102 if I don't sleep. So you're going to give me 75 stam? Thanks. I'll never be able to chop wood again or forage for anything. Then add on scan or watch or listen, and I'm down to 65 probably, IF I have a good skill level. No thank you. More smaller baddies, random popping. That is what we need.

[Delstro]

You are not a mount, my friend. Well. I will not mount you. I am sorry.


I meant for mounts.

[tortall]

You are not a mount, my friend. Well. I will not mount you. I am sorry.


I meant for mounts.

Might want to clarify that in your orgnial post then.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

I think the randomization of spawn points is the best idea I've heard out there, period, as far as adding excitement to my traveling life goes.  Second I wouldn't mind doubling movement point costs for mounts or lowering their max stamina.  It is kind of ridiculous how far and fast you can travel on a mount, along the roads.

However, most of the rest of the ideas presented here would just make my game experience either more boring, which is bad, or that the 'benefits' would entirely not offset the ARGH! factor.

Finally...

As long as rangers the Byn try tries to charge 400+ coins just to ride somebody through a storm without guarding them... they won't get hired much.

I fixed you Fathi!

I don't see how hiring the Byn should factor into the argument.  I wouldn't hire the Byn even IF the roads were more dangerous, because any quote I have ever gotten from the Byn, period, has been too expensive for my average character.  Heck they were nearly too expensive for an escort job on my noble stipend.