Is unarmed combat underpowered?

[Sephiroto]

I'd like to see unarmed combat beefed up for fighting classes.

Discuss.

[touringCompl3t3]

It is kind of underpowered when you compare unarmed dude trying to fight unarmed dude.

But it's pretty well-balanced for unarmed dude against armed dude.

If you beefed up unarmed combat, the most immediate effect that I can predict (besides a tiny improvement in realism) is a decrease in the importance of weapons in the game, coupled with a slight decrease in the level of strategy associated with combat.*

So your idea is not really bad, I just think it will bring us a questionable gain.




*for the reason that weapons will no longer be such a large consideration.

[FuSoYa]

I would love to have unarmed combat expanded somewhat but not ever have a dude who can fight with no weapons take on a dude with some super sharp 'sid swords.

Brandon

[fourTwenty]

As a side note, I think a subguild that allowed you to become uber-badass unarmed would be pretty cool.

I think that if your Merchant attacks my Warrior I should be able to easily whip your ass without weapons. In fact, I should be able to take your weapon from you and beat your ass with it. I think if two warriors go at it and one is super badass unarmed he should hold his own, but not for long. I think Assassins should get a small boost to unarmed combat as well.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

It is kind of underpowered when you compare unarmed dude trying to fight unarmed dude.

But it's pretty well-balanced for unarmed dude against armed dude.

QFT.

[Clearsighted]

I'd like to see more options with unarmed, for the 'fighting' classes (warrior, ranger, assassin).

[Is Friday]

It strikes me as odd that disarm has such a large penalty when unarmed. Perhaps there should be two different skills regarding this? It's obviously very different trying to disarm someone with a weapon of your own and not having one. Why not have skills reflect this?

Disarming someone without having a weapon of your own isn't as absolutely stunningly difficult if you take into account how the body works, grappling, and humanoid pressure points. It just works differently, and I think a second skill could easily reflect this.

At least I think so.

edit: It would be cool if it were easier to disarm someone, or bash them, or kick them, if they were "reeling".

[fourTwenty]

It strikes me as odd that disarm has such a large penalty when unarmed. Perhaps there should be two different skills regarding this? It's obviously very different trying to disarm someone with a weapon of your own and not having one. Why not have skills reflect this?

Disarming someone without having a weapon of your own isn't as absolutely stunningly difficult if you take into account how the body works, grappling, and humanoid pressure points. It just works differently, and I think a second skill could easily reflect this.

At least I think so.

edit: It would be cool if it were easier to disarm someone, or bash them, or kick them, if they were "reeling".

ALLLLLLL O' Dis

[Qzzrbl]

It strikes me as odd that disarm has such a large penalty when unarmed. Perhaps there should be two different skills regarding this? It's obviously very different trying to disarm someone with a weapon of your own and not having one. Why not have skills reflect this?

Disarming someone without having a weapon of your own isn't as absolutely stunningly difficult if you take into account how the body works, grappling, and humanoid pressure points. It just works differently, and I think a second skill could easily reflect this.

At least I think so.

edit: It would be cool if it were easier to disarm someone, or bash them, or kick them, if they were "reeling".

Since 2.Arm will have an "unarmed combat" skill, I think should cover disarm in accordance to your unarmed combat skill.

And yes, it would be awesome if it were easier to use combat skills on a reeled opponent.

[Fathi]

If anything, unarmed combat is overpowered.

That said, if people want to introduce martial arts styles of unarmed combat into Arm 2 or have it be something you can actually train and skill up, go for it. I wouldn't use it because it's not really my bag, but I see how it could add flavour to the game.

[Yam]

Keep an eye on your stun the next time someone punches your character in the head.

[Clearsighted]

It is true that once you get your off/def to ridiculous levels, then unarmed combat becomes very ninja. Especially if you're a warrior and can disarm, bash and kick. But seeing it get a bit more versatility would still be nice.

[Sephiroto]

How is unarmed combat overpowered?  Well, I'll concede that an unarmed blow can easily knock someone out, but the chances of punching someone who is armed and a decent fighter is almost impossible unless you are an amazing fighter yourself.  Even then it is almost worthless.

A badass fighter will likely get pwned by an average fighter with the rinky-dinkiest of clubs.  I disagree with this balance.

[Fathi]

the chances of punching someone who is armed and a decent fighter is almost impossible unless you are an amazing fighter yourself.

The problem isn't hitting them, from my experience. It does not seem all that difficult to land punches to an armed party in an attack, in my anecdotal experience, at least. The problem is that you get cut the hell up when you try to do it.

But I think that's how it should be, so we'll just have to agree to disagree, there.

I don't think that unarmed combat should ever be on par with armed combat. In all but the most extreme of cases--such as a massive gap in skill or physical prowess between the two individuals--I think that armed combat should trump unarmed combat, and by a considerable margin at that.

[Tisiphone]

I don't think that unarmed combat should ever be on par with armed combat. In all but the most extreme of cases--such as a massive gap in skill or physical prowess between the two individuals--I think that armed combat should trump unarmed combat, and by a considerable margin at that.

Aye. We use tools for a reason.

[The Spoony Bard]

Haven't you guys watched a martial arts movie before? A unarmed monk always beats some sissy with a sword or a gun. Always.

[musashi]

You guys should go watch aikido demonstrations.

It's very possible to pwn someone who has a weapon when you don't, if you put the hours into learning how.

The thing is ... it's just a lot easier and quicker to learn how to use a tool (ie a weapon) instead, so the path of least resistance won out through the course of history. And ... well there isn't anything wrong with that.

So I'm all for having martial arts or unarmed combat in the game, and having it be trainable to such a level that it can be on par with armed combat. I just think it should take at least double the amount of time to get it there because it is the more difficult, time consuming path to follow.

[Nusku]

Unarmed combat is functioning at exactly the level we want it to. There is no Bruce Lee, Royce Gracie, or Chuck Norris in Armageddon, and we like it fine that way.

[brytta.leofa]

I would far rather see us err on the side of underpowering unarmed combat than otherwise.

[musashi]

Unarmed combat is functioning at exactly the level we want it to. There is no Bruce Lee, Royce Gracie, or Chuck Norris in Armageddon, and we like it fine that way.

Damn. 

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

So I'm all for having martial arts or unarmed combat in the game, and having it be trainable to such a level that it can be on par with armed combat. I just think it should take at least double the amount of time to get it there because it is the more difficult, time consuming path to follow.

This is already possible, in certain aspects. There are characters who can, unarmed, beat down armed characters. This is because it took 5-10 times longer to get to this point than it took the armed fighter to get to their point.

[Lakota]

It's only underpowered if you're fighting someone with a huge battleaxe. If you're brawling other unarmed people, it works just fine.

I have seen badass warriors beat armed opponents bare-handed. It's fine to me.

[fourTwenty]

There is no Royce Gracie in Armageddon, and we like it fine that way.

Thank god, I am begging you to never change this.
I spend to much time on this game as it is and if grappling was ever introduce to this degree I'd fucking waste away and die. Thank you.

Unarmed combat is fine! Shut up and sit down! I need a social life.

[Nyr]

One-armed combat is also working as intended.

[Dalmeth]

One-armed combat is also working as intended.

Yeah, it's totally awesome!  Good job up there in staff land!