Sdescs over the Way -- A Suggestion and Discussion

[NoteworthyFellow]

Nyr suggested in the barrier thread that this topic (sdesc sniffing over the Way) receive its own thread, so here it is!

Sdesc sniffing through contacting someone is a potentially plot-ruining little feature that many would like to see gone.  I assume many feel differently, as well, but here's my suggestion.

When you first contact someone, you don't see the sdesc of the person you contacted.

Code Select Expand

> contact amos
You suffer from use of the Way.
Your mind makes contact with another.

Or some sort of echo like that, you get the idea.  Then, if you psi them, you do send your own sdesc with the message; the same goes for if someone else sends you a telepathic message.  Therefore, sdescs will always be sent with telepathic messages.

Now, for a new command: image.

Code Select Expand

> contact amos
You suffer from use of the Way.
Your mind makes contact with another.

> image
You suffer from use of the Way.
The image of the tall, muscular man appears in your head.

Therefore, you can consciously attempt to see the person you're contacting.  What good does this do someone who doesn't want their sdesc sniffed, then?  Well, the delay from contact that the initiator will incur gives the contacted one time to use expel or simply put their barrier back up, thus blocking the image attempt.

I also suggest another setting for nosave, nosave image.  By default, your character will not try to resist someone mentally imagining them over the Way (just like with nosave arrest); if you toggle that nosave off, then your character will attempt to resist being mentally "seen," and the roll could use the initiator's contact skill vs. the target's barrier skill.  If you fail the roll, you won't know you've been mentally "seen;" if you succeed, you will.  If you don't save against it, you won't know, either.

With nosave image off, then, if you succeed your save:

Code Select Expand

>
A foreign presence contacts your mind.

>
You feel a mental eye scanning you and mentally block it.

Or something that sounds less terrible.

Thoughts?

[fourTwenty]

I actually like this idea.

Most of it anyway. I like the idea of not having your sdesc pop-up until you way something back. As far as <Image> goes I'd say either make it a psion ability or toss it out completely. You shouldn't know what I look like if I don't Way back to you.

[Archbaron]

I've been for an idea like this for a while.

[Qzzrbl]

I won all of Delstro's karma for this idea, so I reckon it's worth throwing in here too.

Why don't we make it to where a character meeting another character decides what keyword to use?

Amos meets Malik, the tall, muscular man. Up to this point, Amos has to use Malik's sdesc to target him. Malik introduces himself as Jak.

Amos types in "Keyword the tall, muscular man; Jak"

Gets the echo, "You now know the tall, muscular man as Jak"

And from then on out, Amos can refer to Malik as Jak, or any other nickname he so chooses to give him.

Sdescs cannot be used for contacting someone, because there are likely a thousand other tall, muscular men in the world at any given moment.

[tortall]

I actually like this idea.

Most of it anyway. I like the idea of not having your sdesc pop-up until you way something back. As far as <Image> goes I'd say either make it a psion ability or toss it out completely. You shouldn't know what I look like if I don't Way back to you.

I agree

I won all of Delstro's karma for this idea, so I reckon it's worth throwing in here too.

Why don't we make it to where a character meeting another character decides what keyword to use?

Amos meets Malik, the tall, muscular man. Up to this point, Amos has to use Malik's sdesc to target him. Malik introduces himself as Jak.

Amos types in "Keyword the tall, muscular man; Jak"

Gets the echo, "You now know the tall, muscular man as Jak"

And from then on out, Amos can refer to Malik as Jak, or any other nickname he so chooses to give him.

Sdescs cannot be used for contacting someone, because there are likely a thousand other tall, muscular men in the world at any given moment.

Seeing as how if Malik adds one of his keywords HIMSELF as Jak, you should be able to contact him AS Jak.

I personally don't use keywords to contact people unless they have a common name. Contact amos large(the large musculal man named amos).

[Qzzrbl]

I won all of Delstro's karma for this idea, so I reckon it's worth throwing in here too.

Why don't we make it to where a character meeting another character decides what keyword to use?

Amos meets Malik, the tall, muscular man. Up to this point, Amos has to use Malik's sdesc to target him. Malik introduces himself as Jak.

Amos types in "Keyword the tall, muscular man; Jak"

Gets the echo, "You now know the tall, muscular man as Jak"

And from then on out, Amos can refer to Malik as Jak, or any other nickname he so chooses to give him.

Sdescs cannot be used for contacting someone, because there are likely a thousand other tall, muscular men in the world at any given moment.

Seeing as how if Malik adds one of his keywords HIMSELF as Jak, you should be able to contact him AS Jak.

Why?

Malik knows himself as Jak.

But Amos has no idea Jak's real name is Malik, nor does he know that Jak is an alias.

How should Amos know that Jak = Malik?



::EDIT:: The idea is, a player doesn't add keywords to himself. Other than his sdesc, which probably wouldn't be contactable, he will have no keywords.

Other players will add keywords for him to their own little keyword "bank" for that character.

[touringCompl3t3]

Original poster's idea definitely has potential.

Here's another idea -- each character has both a physical sdesc and a mental sdesc

example:

Bob
physcical: the tall, muscular man
mental: the focused, fiery mind


yes?

[tortall]

Why?

Malik knows himself as Jak.

But Amos has no idea Jak's real name is Malik, nor does he know that Jak is an alias.

How should Amos know that Jak = Malik?



::EDIT:: The idea is, a player doesn't add keywords to himself. Other than his sdesc, which probably wouldn't be contactable, he will have no keywords.

Other players will add keywords for him to their own little keyword "bank" for that character.

Because it's not something worth putting in/changing. If Malik is too lazy to add a name to his keywords that he chose to introduce himself as, then why should Amos be able to contact him? With the way it currently stands, if Malik does NOT add Jak as a keyword:
1) Amos's player will KNOW it's not his real name and it will be VERY hard to keep that information ooc.
2) Amos trys to contact "Jak". He cannot reach the "Jak" he is looking for.

So again, why does this need to be changed?

[Qzzrbl]

I mean, if Amos adds the keyword "Jak" for Malik, and he types "contact Jak" he will contact Malik.

Amos knows Malik as "Jak" and for all intents and purposes, Jak is Malik's name to Amos.

When Amos thinks of Jak, he thinks of Malik, and can thusly connect that name to him, and will be able to contact Malik using "Jak".

Since Amos doesn't know that "Jak's" real name is Malik, he will not be able to contact "Jak" using 'Contact Malik'.

Malik doesn't need to add "Jak" to his keywords for Amos to contact him.

It doesn't makes sense for someone to be able to contact another person they've never met/seen before using their name or sdesc.

[Nusku]

Personally (i.e. this is not a staff position I am advocating) I like the idea of having a "psionic sdesc" that you create at character generation. This sdesc would be used in lieu of someone's actual sdesc when you contact them. This psionic sdesc could be a representation of their personality, their mental self-image, etc.

Example:
Bob - the short, dark man (real sdesc) also has "a fizzing ball of purple goo" as his psionic sdesc.
Sandy - the tall, blond woman (real sdesc) also has "a bloody, bruised fist" as her psionic sdesc.

Bob attempts to contact Sandy -
> contact Sandy
You contact <a bloody, bruised fist>.

Sandy attempts to contact Bob -
> contact fizzing ball goo
You contact <a fizzing ball of purple goo>.

Bob attempts to contact Sandy -
> contact tall blond woman
You contact <a bloody, bruised fist>.

The psionic sdesc would not be available to use as keywords for anything besides psionics; that is, "look fizzing" wouldn't target Bob.

However... that being said, I think people get a bit too uptight about "sdesc sniffing." A hooded cloak is not a magick illusion that prevents people from getting a look at your features. On the other hand, I think we should entertain the idea of "levels of hiddenness." A cloak with a deep enough hood to really mask you from being identified is going to have drawbacks - loss of peripheral vision and hearing are going to impact skills like scan, listen, and watch. A facewrap that is opaque enough to conceal your facial features might cut down your visual range by a room. In other words, if we're going to implement items that are really and truly designed to make someone difficult to identify, I'm ok with that, but there have to be tradeoffs.

[Riev]

As much as Qzzrbl's post makes my brain.... something....


I've always had a small issue with people not adding keywords to themselves because they don't want them. I -do-, please believe me, understand the reason not to. I'm the type of guy that says "Wow, they're nicknaming me Tuluk... maybe I'll addkeyword that"

But maybe the OP is a good idea, in that addkeyword is actually for -other- people. Type in an sdesc, a separator, and a name. Might cause a bit of added Space to contain it all, but it makes a little more sense.

Maybe Jak, to me, is "Jakhal-face". I would want to contact jakhal-face to get into contact with him. Maybe it would just be a serverside alias at that point? When "Jakhal-Face's Sdesc" contacts you, it aliases to just "Jakhal-Face", so Jakhal-face says to you over the way: "Cut that out".



Maybe not for this incarnation, but a good idea?

[Lizzie]

It doesn't makes sense for someone to be able to contact another person they've never met/seen before using their name or sdesc.

I'm not sure why it needs to make sense. It's a matter of playability. You'd end up with new players sitting at the bar, waiting for RL weeks to find a Byn Sergeant, all because the Sergeant happens to be in the other city on a mission. Even if he's posted on the tavern board that he's looking to hire, that he can be found, that this is his name, and this is what he looks like

Or if your GMH Merchant is stuck in meetings between the estate and the Ghaati Teahouse for a RL week, and just plain can't make it to the Sanctuary, and you miss out on a dozen 2000-sid orders from nobles who know you exist, know your name, know what you look like, whose aides buy from you all the time, and you're having sex with three of their guards, these nobles even know about the mole on your thigh, but they can't find your mind just because they've never met you.

That, to me, makes much less sense than being able to way someone if you know their sdesc, a keyword, or a name, without ever having met that person, in person. The whole point of psionics is to reach -beyond- the body and directly into the mind and thoughts. I personally find it amusing to try to contact "maria" and end up contacting the brown-eyed gith NPC who also happens to be named Maria, just because the Maria I'm trying to find is either dead or not logged in and the gith is the first available Maria in the game. It's fun to RP that out...maybe some day of having experienced this one too many times, actually try to TALK to this gith. Maybe offer to meet her for tea, or poached SLK Elf on a Stick or something.

[FantasyWriter]

However... that being said, I think people get a bit too uptight about "sdesc sniffing." A hooded cloak is not a magick illusion that prevents people from getting a look at your features. On the other hand, I think we should entertain the idea of "levels of hiddenness." A cloak with a deep enough hood to really mask you from being identified is going to have drawbacks - loss of peripheral vision and hearing are going to impact skills like scan, listen, and watch. A facewrap that is opaque enough to conceal your facial features might cut down your visual range by a room. In other words, if we're going to implement items that are really and truly designed to make someone difficult to identify, I'm ok with that, but there have to be tradeoffs.

I for one would like to see this:
1)  It is very realistic.
2)  The trade off truly hiding sdesc from people (no way phishing), IMHO, would be quite worth it.

[Qzzrbl]

It doesn't makes sense for someone to be able to contact another person they've never met/seen before using their name or sdesc.

I'm not sure why it needs to make sense. It's a matter of playability. You'd end up with new players sitting at the bar, waiting for RL weeks to find a Byn Sergeant, all because the Sergeant happens to be in the other city on a mission. Even if he's posted on the tavern board that he's looking to hire, that he can be found, that this is his name, and this is what he looks like

Or if your GMH Merchant is stuck in meetings between the estate and the Ghaati Teahouse for a RL week, and just plain can't make it to the Sanctuary, and you miss out on a dozen 2000-sid orders from nobles who know you exist, know your name, know what you look like, whose aides buy from you all the time, and you're having sex with three of their guards, these nobles even know about the mole on your thigh, but they can't find your mind just because they've never met you.

That, to me, makes much less sense than being able to way someone if you know their sdesc, a keyword, or a name, without ever having met that person, in person. The whole point of psionics is to reach -beyond- the body and directly into the mind and thoughts. I personally find it amusing to try to contact "maria" and end up contacting the brown-eyed gith NPC who also happens to be named Maria, just because the Maria I'm trying to find is either dead or not logged in and the gith is the first available Maria in the game. It's fun to RP that out...maybe some day of having experienced this one too many times, actually try to TALK to this gith. Maybe offer to meet her for tea, or poached SLK Elf on a Stick or something.

Here's an amazing idea that will change the face of Zalanthas entirely.

Ask around.

You want to find a Byn sergeant? Ask around at the Gaj. Ask people to pass the word along that you're looking for a Byn sergeant. Interact with other players.

You're a noble looking for a merchant, but can't find said merchant, but your guards and aides do? Ask your aides/guards to get in touch with him, since they already know him and all.

Ask around and interact with other players, see if anyone else you know can contact this merchant so you can set up a meeting.

It's a truly amazing concept, I know, but I think it can be done.

[NoteworthyFellow]

However... that being said, I think people get a bit too uptight about "sdesc sniffing." A hooded cloak is not a magick illusion that prevents people from getting a look at your features. On the other hand, I think we should entertain the idea of "levels of hiddenness." A cloak with a deep enough hood to really mask you from being identified is going to have drawbacks - loss of peripheral vision and hearing are going to impact skills like scan, listen, and watch. A facewrap that is opaque enough to conceal your facial features might cut down your visual range by a room. In other words, if we're going to implement items that are really and truly designed to make someone difficult to identify, I'm ok with that, but there have to be tradeoffs.

I for one would like to see this:
1)  It is very realistic.
2)  The trade off truly hiding sdesc from people (no way phishing), IMHO, would be quite worth it.

I dig this and 100% support it.

[Lizzie]

What does that have to do with the "reality" of the situation Q? I'm not complaining that you can't find a Byn Sarge. I'm saying that IF you are trying to find one, and you have -alreadylearned-:

1. The Byn Sarge definitely exists.
2. You have learned that yes, he is hiring.
3. You have learned that his name is Amos.
4. You have asked around and learned from the only two runners who got stuck not going on the mission that he is on a mission, and has been for a week, but is alive and well at last report.
5. You have asked around and learned he is a tall man with muscular muscles and length in his torso.
6. You have also learned that he's been fucking your PC sister Susie for months, and she has described every intimate detail about his naked self and you could probably identify him blindfolded based solely on the bumps on his penis...

and yet

You can't way him because you've never met him.

I find that makes zero sense whatsoever.

[Archbaron]

Original poster's idea definitely has potential.

Here's another idea -- each character has both a physical sdesc and a mental sdesc

example:

Bob
physcical: the tall, muscular man
mental: the focused, fiery mind


yes?

Yes.

[Nusku]

Ask around and interact with other players, see if anyone else you know can contact this merchant so you can set up a meeting.

It's a truly amazing concept, I know, but I think it can be done.

The logistics of playing times and in-game population density make this an unlikely prospect at best. If I had a dollar for every wish that went something like, "I've been looking for a Byn Sergeant for two weeks RL, can someone animate this NPC?" I could pay off my mortgage. Sometimes pragmatism for the sake of gameplay has to take precedence over other considerations.

[Riev]

Original poster's idea definitely has potential.

Here's another idea -- each character has both a physical sdesc and a mental sdesc

example:

Bob
physcical: the tall, muscular man
mental: the focused, fiery mind

Can I have all my mental Sdescs be the same? Also, can there be duplicate Psi-Sdescs? What if two people REALLY like having an agafari-colored castle for a mind?

Regardless of the policing, I think that would help. When you tell someone to go find Amos, you can say "You'll know you've found his mind when you feel like if you see any more blue, you'll throw up" because his mind is "the azure-field of blue flowers".

God -damn- would that be better than:

contact the-only-damn-amos-in-game
psi hey, is this Amos?

[Reiloth]

What does that have to do with the "reality" of the situation Q? I'm not complaining that you can't find a Byn Sarge. I'm saying that IF you are trying to find one, and you have -alreadylearned-:

1. The Byn Sarge definitely exists.
2. You have learned that yes, he is hiring.
3. You have learned that his name is Amos.
4. You have asked around and learned from the only two runners who got stuck not going on the mission that he is on a mission, and has been for a week, but is alive and well at last report.
5. You have asked around and learned he is a tall man with muscular muscles and length in his torso.
6. You have also learned that he's been fucking your PC sister Susie for months, and she has described every intimate detail about his naked self and you could probably identify him blindfolded based solely on the bumps on his penis...

and yet

You can't way him because you've never met him.

I find that makes zero sense whatsoever.

I find psychic abilities to make zero sense whatsoever.

Realism doesn't really come into play when you are talking about a fantastical concept. The way, as it is used now, is like a cell-phone. I find it silly, unrealistic, and kind of jarring and bizarre. I would be giddy with joy if we just...Did away with mundane use of the way entirely!

However, beside this point, I think Nusku's concept of different levels of 'hiddenness' applied to objects is an astounding, fresh idea. A wide brimmed hat may provide some obscurity from a distance of, say, two leagues. "There! A man with a hat, over there!". But upon entering the room, the person's sdesc would be apparent. It may make running from the authorities, or getting 'lost in the crowd' a bit easier, if peoples sdesc's weren't blatant from a MILE away, through a crowd of thousands of vNPC's. It would be nice if it randomly took some article of their clothing as an identifier, and perhaps that changes depending on who's looking at them.

So a woman wearing a black turban, white linen pants and a shirt, and a bright red cloak might show to someone a few rooms away as "The person wearing a bright red cloak stands here", or "The person wearing a black turban stands here". That may change from person to person, so if you and your friend Dan are chasing a 'rinth-rat into a throng of people, it would be relatively easy for the person to get away. Unless you were watching them. Then, their sdesc remains, they don't blend into the crowd at all from a distance.

Just a thought.

[Nusku]

A wide brimmed hat may provide some obscurity from a distance of, say, two leagues. "There! A man with a hat, over there!".

"Suspect is hatless. I repeat, hatless."

[Fathi]

A wide brimmed hat may provide some obscurity from a distance of, say, two leagues. "There! A man with a hat, over there!".

"Suspect is hatless. I repeat, hatless."

I had a character with a sdesc-hiding hat once.

It was pretty much the best thing ever.

Edit: I pictured it as basically walking around with a bucket on her head or something. A very large bucket that she could somehow see out of.

[Qzzrbl]

What does that have to do with the "reality" of the situation Q? I'm not complaining that you can't find a Byn Sarge. I'm saying that IF you are trying to find one, and you have -alreadylearned-:

1. The Byn Sarge definitely exists.
2. You have learned that yes, he is hiring.
3. You have learned that his name is Amos.
4. You have asked around and learned from the only two runners who got stuck not going on the mission that he is on a mission, and has been for a week, but is alive and well at last report.
5. You have asked around and learned he is a tall man with muscular muscles and length in his torso.
6. You have also learned that he's been fucking your PC sister Susie for months, and she has described every intimate detail about his naked self and you could probably identify him blindfolded based solely on the bumps on his penis...

and yet

You can't way him because you've never met him.

I find that makes zero sense whatsoever.

How can you establish a mental connection with someone just from knowing what they look like?

He could probably have a twin somewhere.

Those bumps on his penis and that mole on his ass could be a magickal disguise.

His hair might not really be black, but dyed some other color.

Maybe he lost his nose and both eyes on that mission?

Amos might not even be his real name.

Maybe he binged on candy and gained 200 pounds.

-shrug-

[Lizzie]

And maybe it has nothing to do with realism Q, and everything to do with playability and pragmatism, as Nusku, myself, and a few others have said.

[Qzzrbl]

And maybe it has nothing to do with realism Q, and everything to do with playability and pragmatism, as Nusku, myself, and a few others have said.

Well, the way it is now makes it very hard to hide one's identity.

Especially with barrier being knocked out at the initiation of combat.

It's now become very unplayable and nigh impossible for raiders and other players of that sort to do their thing.

::EDIT:: Where'd all the people who once supported my idea go? 

::2.EDIT:: And I'm still having a little trouble seeing how my idea will make the game terribly much more unplayable.

If a player can't find a Byn sergeant for over two RL weeks, then it's very unlikely that any sergeants are even online when that player is, so this idea wouldn't make that problem any worse.

::3.EDIT:: Also, this idea encourages player interaction while making it easier for people to hide their identity if they so choose to. I thought that was a good thing?