Roleplay in Tuluk

[helix]

I don't mean to write yet another 'roleplay in Tuluk is about subtlety' thread - but well over half my time in this game has been devoted to this often misunderstood and sometimes maligned city - this isn't an attempt to say how it should be played, but a few suggestions that I've learned to help carry the day.

First, what makes a Tuluki... Tuluki?

The culture of Tuluk is not, as some people say, "happy bunny tree-huggers". Tuluk is founded on a tribal culture - tribal cultures tend to have different values and ideals than that non-tribal based societies. These particular aspects of tribal culture could be described as:

Strong hierarchy with semi-permeable boundries: The caste system in Tuluk is not as rigid as some people seem to think that it is. Yes - sexual relationships between castes are unthinkable (see: Tuluki Roleplay docs) but friendships - often strong ones, can be developed. The key to this (this is the semi-permeable boundry part) is the strong hierarchy. Tuluk is founded on tribal cultures - these cultures revere and idolize their elders. However, this relationship is vastly different than southern relationships. Chosen can be reasoned with, bargained with, schemed with - they can be involved with your character on a meaningful, personal level. It's like a very polite young person having a debate with a parent - the interaction is absolutely one of respect, but differences of opinion are possible. Not because they are noble but because you believe that they are better. In the end, however, the noble will always win out, unless they are swayed to the commoner's opinion. Because they are better.

Like any hierarchical system, respect is of great concern. Not just upward-caste respect, but inter-caste respect also. Its important to note that respect does not always mean deference, though it can. What I mean by this is - if you are a no-name grebber, you need to show respect to those who are your betters, even in the Commoner caste. This shows that you are one of the 'in-crowd' - someone that can be counted on to perceive social status correctly, interpret it, and elicit the proper response. Being a part of this 'in-crowd' is how you gain entry to plots in Tuluk, because the LAST thing your plot-giver wants is to be embarrassed by someone who makes a social faux pas, lowering their own social status.

Isolationism:Tuluk, much more than Allanak (that I remember), is able to foster an 'us against them' mentality. If you consider that Tuluk is made up of a series of urbanized tribes, this makes more sense. Traditions are guarded jealously, followed without question. Outsiders are distrusted - though not openly. To get over this distrust requires a pseudo relationship - the partisan system. The commoner isn't sure that the noble can represent his interests, but the noble convinces him that he will represent his concerns fairly. The noble isn't sure that the commoner can provide the support that the noble needs, but they agree to 'feel each other out'. The partisan system is too often used as a supplement to House employees, I believe - its not being used (as I feel it should) to evaluate the level of trust between two parties.

Friends and enemies:The politeness of Tuluk is often mistaken for everyone getting along. True, this sometimes happens, but Tuluk is a place where the old adage, "keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer" holds true. Remember that, with tribal roots, Tuluki society fears and distrusts outsiders. Outsiders being other Houses, sometimes the Templarate, sometimes unaffiliated commoners. Because of this innate distrust of motive, no word or action is taken at face value. This is the root of the 'subtlety' that everyone talks about in Tuluk. It's not being about being subtle.

Imagine you are sitting across from someone that you believe may or may not be an enemy. They may or may not want to cast you down, destroy all your careful planning, and take your assets for their own. They are an outsider - not from your House, and an unknown quantity. You're unsure of their strength, and their own position on matters. Your task, then, is to give away as little as possible while gaining as much as possible. How do you do this? That is what people commonly refer to as 'Tuluki subtlety'. Its not actually subtlety at all - its attempting to outwit someone you believe may have designs on something you consider your own.

Rules:Like most tribal societies, Tuluk has a definite ruleset for formalized rituals for resolving conflict and determining station. This is the fabric of Tuluki society - the caste system, the power base, and the rules of ritualized combat. Combat is Tuluk is played out in assassinations and thievery, in slander and rumor. Because these stringent rules affect the strong hierarchy so much, they MUST be followed in public. In Tuluk, the way to KEEP face is to make every appearance of following every rule (this is mostly for Chosen and above) and having absolute faith in the Sun King. Having said that the way to GAIN face is to USE those rules to your advantage - circumventing them where you can to accomplish your goals.

For instance - instead of assassinating someone in the city, which requires a license, have it done outside the city by a third party. Instead of responding to an insult, appear to be above it while having a bard compose a song to your steadfast courage, and how you are often unfairly wronged because of how much you care about the common people. The point of the rules of Tuluk is not to prevent you from doing what you want - its to force creativity in working around the rules to accomplish it without anyone being able to prove you did it.

Implicit rank versus explicit rank:Unlike Allanak, the way to spot a power player in Tuluk is when they appear to have less rank than they actually do. Generally, the highest ranking individuals in an interaction will make some attempt to lower themselves to the lower ranking individual's station - because it is not necessary to explicitly state one's rank. It is understood by the lower ranking person that the upper is still above them, only making a gesture of rapport generation. The easiest way to slight someone in Tuluk is to equate your social standing with them while it is not actually so if you're of lower rank, or if you're of upper rank, to not make some kind of friendly gesture towards the lower ranking individual to know that its acceptable for them to talk to you. Basically, a snub.

Brutality:The last thing that makes a Tuluki Tuluki is the idea of brutality. When it is time to strike - strike. Don't hold back. Tribal warfare is harsh, short-lived, and decisive. There are no permanent allies, and no permanent friends, either. You use people for your own gain, except those that are in your House or tribe.

These are the things that make playing in Tuluk different for people, in my opinion. It took me well over a year to understand some of the above - and I still get it wrong, sometimes.



Now... what are Tuluki characters LIKE?

Those characters that have a distinctly Tuluki feel, rather than a generic feel, I feel have the following properties:

Traditions: Tuluki characters are strongly rooted in tradition, culture and family. I don't mean culture like the Poet's Circle necessarily - I mean having their own distinct words, phrases, and ideas that reflect their tribal past. There are differing degrees of this. You can play someone who is completely urbane who disdains these traditions (but will still recognise that they have them) or you can go the complete opposite, to someone whom the guards will barely let into the gates.

Faith: Unlike Allanak, Tuluk's people are generally well-disposed towards the Sun King and the Templarate in general. Faith and devotion run rampant not because of fear, but of love, desire and trust. People honestly, deeply believe that Templars are better than they are. Chosen are better than they are. That the Sun King is wise, and nearly all-knowing, and that he is a benevolent figure in people's lives. This gives Tuluki characters a completely different feel from Allanaki ones.

Fear: Because of its tribal roots, characters have a fear of being not a part of the group. People want to be included (note that this contrasts the isolationism of Tuluk, we're talking about on a character-level here) and they want to be seen as worth something. Many of the best characters I've seen were motivated by fear of being cast out, and let that social peer pressure get them into a lot of situations.

There's more than this, but man I'm tired. These are only my thoughts and what my past experience has shown me to be true most of the time. I see roleplay in Tuluk as challenging and rewarding, especially from the social perspective, once you finally 'get it', and completely different from Allanak.

[NoteworthyFellow]

Overall, I think this post is excellent.  I do disagree somewhat with this section?

Faith: Unlike Allanak, Tuluk's people are generally well-disposed towards the Sun King and the Templarate in general. Faith and devotion run rampant not because of fear, but of love, desire and trust. People honestly, deeply believe that Templars are better than they are. Chosen are better than they are. That the Sun King is wise, and nearly all-knowing, and that he is a benevolent figure in people's lives. This gives Tuluki characters a completely different feel from Allanaki ones.

I think the portrayal of Allanaki faith is a little misleading.  Many Allanakis do love their Highlord, though they often fear him as well.  They also believe (or, at least, should believe) that Templars are simply inherently better than they are.

Your post has convinced me that my next character needs to be in Tuluk, though.  I've never had a Tuluki who lived long enough for my tastes, so I feel like I never gave it a fair shake, even though I've always loved the concept of Tuluk.

[brytta.leofa]

This reminds me of bits I've read about Japanese culture, especially in business.  The man doing the talking is not the boss.

[Dalmeth]

Faith: Unlike Allanak, Tuluk's people are generally well-disposed towards the Sun King and the Templarate in general. Faith and devotion run rampant not because of fear, but of love, desire and trust. People honestly, deeply believe that Templars are better than they are. Chosen are better than they are. That the Sun King is wise, and nearly all-knowing, and that he is a benevolent figure in people's lives. This gives Tuluki characters a completely different feel from Allanaki ones.

I personally think the faith comes largely from a greater emphasis on the application of the law.  Everyone has their place, everyone has their limits, and if anyone does push them, the Faithful, the hand of Muk Utep, comes down on them hard.   This goes for the Chosen as much as any commoner.

That, in my mind, is why Tuluki enjoy, "subtlety."  It's when you uphold the law, both from the Faithful and the more vague social conventions, and still manage to get your way that you gain respect.

[Gimfalisette]

Hmmm. I don't really disagree with most of what you've put here, helix, but...well...I have a slightly different perspective.

About tribalism: Yes, Tuluk's roots are "tribal." (Technically, so are Allanak's.) But for most people in Tuluk, and most of the noble houses, that heritage goes back over 1000 years. So, IMO, tribalism is not the single most influential force in Tuluk that shapes everything.

What else is shaping Tuluk? In a word: History. Especially recent history. Examples:

-- The caste system - Was born out of the Allanaki occupation, which still is within memory for some NPCs/VNPCs/PCs. The semi-permeable boundaries you see did -not- exist before Allanak occupied Tuluk, and the nobles had to go into hiding and be sheltered by the commoners. Prior to the occupation, it's my understanding that the attitudes of Tuluki nobility and roleplay thereof were much more similar to Allanak. The mutual respect and dependence between noble and commoner in Tuluk therefore is NOT based on tribalism, but actually on very recent history.

-- The patronage system - Has nothing to do with tribalism. It also is a product of the Allanaki occupation. Patronage rose up afterward as a method of representing the loose filial bonds between nobles and commoners which occurred during the occupation. Patronage is (at least in part) a representation of the commoner's interests, by the noble; a statement from the noble to the partisan and others that "I've got this one's back."

-- Subtlety - I do very much disagree with your take on Tuluki subtlety. It really IS about being subtle. This is another tradition that is a direct result of the Allanaki occupation; when Allanak was in town, it was vital to the survival of the oppressed Tulukis (and vital to the survival of the Rebellion) that Tulukis be able to communicate with one another in ways that the Nakkis couldn't detect, AND Tulukis had to learn to hold their tongues enough to not get deaded by the Nakkis. Subtlety was a method of subversion and rebellion, a way to strike at the enemy in unpunishable ways, and that is what it still is.

What I don't see in Tuluk, nearly often enough, is nobles and templars and bards being the absolute exemplars of subtlety that they should be. Nobles should be sitting in the Sanc insulting each other (maybe truly insulting, perhaps just jesting) so that other players can overhear and get clued in. Bards should be performing subtly derisive works aimed at targets within current Tuluki society, but I think I'm the only bard player I've ever seen do this.

-- Rules and Traditions - Aren't for working around, they're for working with. Killing someone outside city walls isn't very artful, IMO, and I don't think your typical Tuluki would think it is either. Yeah, you can get away with it more easily, but where's the glory and status in that? Status comes from pulling off an artful deed, having everyone know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you did it, and yet having guilt be unprovable. Status doesn't come from merely getting the job done. Rules in Tuluk are certainly "tribal" in origin, insofar as Tuluk is just an extremely tradition-minded society. Tradition is good. Non-tradition is bad. Therefore the rules are good, because they are tradition. Therefore circumventing them IS bad.

-- Competence and hard work - Another effect of the Nakki occupation was, as it pushed Tuluk toward the brink of extinction, to inspire in the populace a very serious understanding that everyone, EVERYONE, had to pull their weight. This included templars and nobles; gone was the idea that nobles could sit around and be useless. While in hiding in the shelter of the commoners, the nobles learned to hunt and work with their hands, and many have kept up these pursuits since the liberation. Nobles are also very often schooled at Poets' Circle, so they are well-versed in Tuluki society overall, and have spent a lot of time hanging out with commoners. They are comfortable with commoners. (Mostly. I've met NPC nobles who definitely weren't, heh.) Additionally, all the noble houses have some kind of real, solid work that they do for the city--above and beyond governorship of qynar. This is totally unlike Allanak--there are no "party" houses in Tuluk, everyone is doing real work.

-- Faith - Yeah, I think a lot of Tulukis have it, and I've always played my Tulukis at least mostly that way. Minimally, on the surface, Tulukis should be professing faith to some extent. (Though the pressure to be "more faithful than thou" always kind of rankles me.) Though, analytically speaking, I'm not sure that faith is THE motivating factor for most Tulukis. Disappearances are not unheard of, and templars are freakin' scary. Fear is also a huge factor. Fear is not simply about not being part of the group, it's about wrong thinking and wrong doing, which everyone knows DO lead to disappearances. (Also, I have to chime in for Allanak. There are plenty of Highlord-lovin' Nakkis, too. Playing it either way in either city is A-OK.)

[brytta.leofa]

(Also, I have to chime in for Allanak. There are plenty of Highlord-lovin' Nakkis, too.

And (derailing! sorry!) sometimes for very good, practical reasons.  It's not just superstition, and I suppose this is true for Northies, too.

[Gimfalisette]

(Also, I have to chime in for Allanak. There are plenty of Highlord-lovin' Nakkis, too.

And (derailing! sorry!) sometimes for very good, practical reasons.  It's not just superstition, and I suppose this is true for Northies, too.

In my experience, it's really important for templar PCs to inspire the faith/fear that's appropriate for the culture. Both north and south. They should do it differently, with the style that's right for their city, but they should be doing it. (And no, I don't mean just by saying "Walk in His light/shadow." * That ain't enough.)

I was fortunate enough to have awesome interactions with a well-played Tuluki Lirathan on my first Tuluki PC, and a well-played Nakki blue robe on my first real Allanaki PC, that really showed me how faith/fear interplay and can be done in those locations.

* "Walk in His shadow," IMO, has a wonderful implication both of protection and threat. Shadow is shade, protection from the heat, but also implies that Tek is looming over you and ready to stomp you if needed. "Walk in His light" has similar connotations: Light is illuminating and helpful, and yet when you're in the light, they can -see- you...and everything you're doing wrong. Thus, both faith and fear, in both cities.

Edited to add: The above is why I don't really like "Walk in His radiance" so much as a greeting/parting in Tuluk. Radiance doesn't have the same faith/fear factor, to me. It just sounds pretty unambivalently beneficial.

[helix]

About tribalism: Yes, Tuluk's roots are "tribal." (Technically, so are Allanak's.) But for most people in Tuluk, and most of the noble houses, that heritage goes back over 1000 years. So, IMO, tribalism is not the single most influential force in Tuluk that shapes everything.

It isn't, that's correct. But its still a large part of it - but its a large part of Tuluk's general flavor and traditions. Its also a part that, in my opinion, doesn't get touched on very often.

-- The caste system - Was born out of the Allanaki occupation, which still is within memory for some NPCs/VNPCs/PCs. The semi-permeable boundaries you see did -not- exist before Allanak occupied Tuluk, and the nobles had to go into hiding and be sheltered by the commoners. Prior to the occupation, it's my understanding that the attitudes of Tuluki nobility and roleplay thereof were much more similar to Allanak. The mutual respect and dependence between noble and commoner in Tuluk therefore is NOT based on tribalism, but actually on very recent history.

That, unfortunately, is before my time and there's not really any place where things like that are recorded - except for long-time players, that information becomes lost rather easily. But, I didn't mean to imply that tribalism was the root of the caste system, my point was simply how tribalism could enhance it.

-- The patronage system - Has nothing to do with tribalism. It also is a product of the Allanaki occupation. Patronage rose up afterward as a method of representing the loose filial bonds between nobles and commoners which occurred during the occupation. Patronage is (at least in part) a representation of the commoner's interests, by the noble; a statement from the noble to the partisan and others that "I've got this one's back."

Again - I'm not pointing to it and saying its roots are a thousand years old. I'm saying, essentially, that a lot of Tulukis are an insular and paranoid lot - why? Distrust of outsiders. I understand how it came about and how it was developed, but I see it being used in-game as more of an extension of House employees rather than the representational process or the feeling out process that it was meant to be. A partisan relationship isn't nearly so rigid as its sometimes represented in-game. Its both a feeling out process and a measure to gain trust - on both parts of the equation. I'm not trying to say (in any of this stuff) where it comes from, only what its actually used for.

-- Subtlety - I do very much disagree with your take on Tuluki subtlety. It really IS about being subtle. This is another tradition that is a direct result of the Allanaki occupation; when Allanak was in town, it was vital to the survival of the oppressed Tulukis (and vital to the survival of the Rebellion) that Tulukis be able to communicate with one another in ways that the Nakkis couldn't detect, AND Tulukis had to learn to hold their tongues enough to not get deaded by the Nakkis. Subtlety was a method of subversion and rebellion, a way to strike at the enemy in unpunishable ways, and that is what it still is.

"Imagine you are sitting across from someone that you believe may or may not be an enemy. They may or may not want to cast you down, destroy all your careful planning, and take your assets for their own. They are an outsider - not from your House, and an unknown quantity. You're unsure of their strength, and their own position on matters. Your task, then, is to give away as little as possible while gaining as much as possible. How do you do this? That is what people commonly refer to as 'Tuluki subtlety'. Its not actually subtlety at all - its attempting to outwit someone you believe may have designs on something you consider your own."

You said, essentially, what I said - except you based it in the occupation. Its not enough to say, "Tulukis are subtle." How? Why? How Much? What are their thought processes? Too much of Tuluk's culture is - and I don't mean this in a bad way - in older player's minds, and not somewhere on paper.

The difference is - I've no idea how Tuluk was before the occupation (as, again, these things aren't recorded anywhere) so I'd assumed the subtlety had always been there. If it wasn't, then I retract the statement about why its there - but the fact that it is there still remains, and I think the thought process is still the same.

-- Rules and Traditions - Aren't for working around, they're for working with. Killing someone outside city walls isn't very artful, IMO, and I don't think your typical Tuluki would think it is either. Yeah, you can get away with it more easily, but where's the glory and status in that? Status comes from pulling off an artful deed, having everyone know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you did it, and yet having guilt be unprovable. Status doesn't come from merely getting the job done. Rules in Tuluk are certainly "tribal" in origin, insofar as Tuluk is just an extremely tradition-minded society. Tradition is good. Non-tradition is bad. Therefore the rules are good, because they are tradition. Therefore circumventing them IS bad.

On this... I think we'll just have to disagree. Brytta brought up Japan - that's really a very good comparison. Rules are in-place to keep the Commoners in line. The Chosen's quickest way to increase face is to show that they understand the letter of the rules, and can act within and around them where necessary. That is what makes an 'artful' move. You do something that may be 'against' the rules, but you do it in such a way that you are following the rules without question. That is 'artful' - not hiring someone to kill some guy in an apartment with terradin.

[Gimfalisette]

About tribalism: Yes, Tuluk's roots are "tribal." (Technically, so are Allanak's.) But for most people in Tuluk, and most of the noble houses, that heritage goes back over 1000 years. So, IMO, tribalism is not the single most influential force in Tuluk that shapes everything.

It isn't, that's correct. But its still a large part of it - but its a large part of Tuluk's general flavor and traditions. Its also a part that, in my opinion, doesn't get touched on very often.

I agree with you on that. Tribalism is something that could stand to be represented better within Tuluk, by those who are actually Tuluki citizens...rather than merely by characters who've taken the nomad subguild for its benefits and yet claim no true affiliation to the city. (I'm really somewhat sick of seeing "tribal lites" in Tuluk.)

-- The caste system - Was born out of the Allanaki occupation, which still is within memory for some NPCs/VNPCs/PCs. The semi-permeable boundaries you see did -not- exist before Allanak occupied Tuluk, and the nobles had to go into hiding and be sheltered by the commoners. Prior to the occupation, it's my understanding that the attitudes of Tuluki nobility and roleplay thereof were much more similar to Allanak. The mutual respect and dependence between noble and commoner in Tuluk therefore is NOT based on tribalism, but actually on very recent history.

That, unfortunately, is before my time and there's not really any place where things like that are recorded - except for long-time players, that information becomes lost rather easily. But, I didn't mean to imply that tribalism was the root of the caste system, my point was simply how tribalism could enhance it.

I'm not really a long-time player. (I think I've only been playing a little longer than you have.) I didn't play in old Tuluk either. I -think- that I learned this stuff either through the docs, or through marko's many wonderful posts on Tuluk. If you haven't read all his posts, go search for them and read up. Marko taught me so much, both through his posts and through roleplaying with him.

-- The patronage system - Has nothing to do with tribalism. It also is a product of the Allanaki occupation. Patronage rose up afterward as a method of representing the loose filial bonds between nobles and commoners which occurred during the occupation. Patronage is (at least in part) a representation of the commoner's interests, by the noble; a statement from the noble to the partisan and others that "I've got this one's back."

I see it being used in-game as more of an extension of House employees rather than the representational process or the feeling out process that it was meant to be. A partisan relationship isn't nearly so rigid as its sometimes represented in-game. Its both a feeling out process and a measure to gain trust - on both parts of the equation. I'm not trying to say (in any of this stuff) where it comes from, only what its actually used for.

Yeah, I agree with you there. Partisans aren't employees, they're indies with extra status and clout due to their relationship to the noble. It should be much more fluid than it's usually played.

An additional note is that I really hate to see bards of the Circle take on actual employment with houses, either noble or GMH. Bards should be anti-rigidity, IMO. They should consider taking a "job" that's not barding to be -beneath- them, because they are bards. Yeah, that makes it a little tougher to scrape together rent money, and there's no free food or water...but that's a good thing. That means bards have to learn to survive by BARDING.

-- Subtlety - I do very much disagree with your take on Tuluki subtlety. It really IS about being subtle. This is another tradition that is a direct result of the Allanaki occupation; when Allanak was in town, it was vital to the survival of the oppressed Tulukis (and vital to the survival of the Rebellion) that Tulukis be able to communicate with one another in ways that the Nakkis couldn't detect, AND Tulukis had to learn to hold their tongues enough to not get deaded by the Nakkis. Subtlety was a method of subversion and rebellion, a way to strike at the enemy in unpunishable ways, and that is what it still is.

You said, essentially, what I said - except you based it in the occupation. Its not enough to say, "Tulukis are subtle." How? Why? How Much? What are their thought processes? Too much of Tuluk's culture is - and I don't mean this in a bad way - in older player's minds, and not somewhere on paper.

The difference is - I've no idea how Tuluk was before the occupation (as, again, these things aren't recorded anywhere) so I'd assumed the subtlety had always been there. If it wasn't, then I retract the statement about why its there - but the fact that it is there still remains, and I think the thought process is still the same.

I'm very certain subtlety is an outgrowth of recent history.

So let's talk about subtlety and the why, how, when, etc.

Why? Subtlety has a few potential goals: 1. Insult your enemies without them knowing it or, minimally, being able to accuse you of doing it. It's a form of stress relief and combat. 2. Raise your own status by accomplishing this; it's like counting coup on an enemy. When you succeed, it's a victory. 3. Communicate to your allies without being detected or accused by the enemy. Sometimes this is to transfer information, sometimes you're just wanting them to notice you're counting coup.

How? Subtlety takes many potential forms. Verbal subtlety - wit, insults, adages, riddles, songs, poems. Physical subtlety - Communicating through gesture or touch or look. Political subtlety - the art of bribery, the art of meetings, the art of using minions for various purposes, the art of the deal.

How Much? There's a time and place to be subtle, and a time and place to be unsubtle. Sometimes the person you're trying to communicate too just doesn't get it, and you might need to be a little more blatant. Or, talking to an ally or making a deal behind closed doors, dropping the subtle is good there too, and often very appreciated. Subtlety should ALWAYS be present in public situations, simply because it's the true dance of Tuluk. It's fun, it's entertaining, it's good RP when it's done well. It's a game.

Thought Process? Tulukis are paranoid and fearful underneath it all. It's important not to show your true hand, or the strength of it. Subtlety is a cover, an approach method, a way of testing, a way of mastery, a way of victory. In essence, it's a guerilla tactic descended from the Rebellion.

If you'd like, I'll try to dream up some examples of subtlety and not-subtlety. I'm not sure if my explanations are really hanging together well, but subtlety is one of those things that I know it when I see it

[Nyr]

If you'd like, I'll try to dream up some examples of subtlety and not-subtlety. I'm not sure if my explanations are really hanging together well, but subtlety is one of those things that I know it when I see it

I don't see what you did there.

[staggerlee]

If you'd like, I'll try to dream up some examples of subtlety and not-subtlety. I'm not sure if my explanations are really hanging together well, but subtlety is one of those things that I know it when I see it

I don't see what you did there.

Ha!  Subtlety in Tuluk? I never noticed any!

It seems to call for a lot of use of the 'think' command and conspiring to arrange public affairs to turn out in a particular way, which I'm all for.  Carefully controlled public image is kind of fun, as contrasted to southern nobility's displays of untouchable power.   
I love conspiring.   The hunched, hairy manservant says in northern accented sirihish "M'lord, I have a cunning plan."

[Desertman]

-- Subtlety - I do very much disagree with your take on Tuluki subtlety. It really IS about being subtle. This is another tradition that is a direct result of the Allanaki occupation; when Allanak was in town, it was vital to the survival of the oppressed Tulukis (and vital to the survival of the Rebellion) that Tulukis be able to communicate with one another in ways that the Nakkis couldn't detect, AND Tulukis had to learn to hold their tongues enough to not get deaded by the Nakkis. Subtlety was a method of subversion and rebellion, a way to strike at the enemy in unpunishable ways, and that is what it still is.

THIS, OH GOOD GOD THIS!!!

[Gimfalisette]

Ha!  Subtlety in Tuluk? I never noticed any!

I've seen it. Recently, even. There are some issues, though.

-- When whoever you're being subtle at just doesn't get it, the subtlety fails. Not due to lack of skill on the subtle player's part, but due to lack of skill or simple documentary knowledge on the receiver's part. I've seen this happen twice within the last week. It behooves every noble, templar, and bard in Tuluk to read, re-read, and read again the documentation, and posts on this forum, until they can live and breathe it. Every system grokked fully. If you can't tell me the meaning of a Tuluki caste or status tattoo off the top of your head, you fail. Got it?

-- People are afraid of trying the subtle. Maybe it will fail. But maybe it won't! Please please please do just try more often. We all need the practice.

-- At its most basic, subtlety is just subtext. If an additional meaning can be read in your words, you've succeeded. Don't make subtlety out to be more complicated than it really is.


Fictitious Examples

To a bard, after they play a song you think sucks: "Such delicate, uncalloused hands you have. Why, it's almost like you've never touched an instrument at all."

To a noble peer you think is a fool: "Your mind is delightful, Amos, unfettered as it is by the burden of age."

How to woo a Tuluki girl: She admires a rival's pretty jewelry. You somehow get the rival disappeared, and bribe a templar to give you the jewelry. Give jewelry to girl, get girl.

How to bribe a Tuluki templar: Get a pretty box. Inside the box put some item that would be of particular interest to that particular templar--maybe they have a stamp collection and you found a rare one for them. Also inside the box is a nice fat sack of coins. Present the gift as "a token of appreciation for all your service." You're so smooth, you get status-props from everyone.


I could kind of go on and on, but I don't want to spill all my best sekrets

[staggerlee]

Ha!  Subtlety in Tuluk? I never noticed any!

I've seen it. Recently, even. There are some issues, though.

*cough*  Think about that one again, without taking it at face value.   

I'm sure there is some amount of subtlety and politicking going on.

-- When whoever you're being subtle at just doesn't get it, the subtlety fails.

I guess I'm still rusty.

[Gimfalisette]

Ha!  Subtlety in Tuluk? I never noticed any!

I've seen it. Recently, even. There are some issues, though.

*cough*  Think about that one again, without taking it at face value.   

I'm sure there is some amount of subtlety and politicking going on.

I'm an idiot 

Honestly, I don't think I'm all that good at subtlety. But I do try.

[staggerlee]

Honestly, I don't think I'm all that good at subtlety. But I do try.

Sorry I was being a smartass, that didn't contribute much.
The examples look pretty sharp. It's hard to put into practice than it is on paper, and it's like playing a pc with a higher wisdom than you.  Nobles in Tuluk would be trained in birth for these things, and we're just poor imitators trying to play the part.  I know it'd take me a whole lot of practice to get it down.

[Gimfalisette]

Another tip on how to play subtlety: Don't expect to be able to do it off-the-cuff, necessarily. When I'm playing in Tuluk, I actually think ahead of time about how I might insult so-and-so the next time I see them. And of course, if I'm playing a bard and a performance is demanded which will have some kind of political text/subtext to it, I put a LOT of time in beforehand crafting it.

So yeah, it takes practice and preparation to do it decently. (For me at least. I think marko was born subtle, the jerk )

[Lizzie]

If subtlety involves inside jokes, the "behoovement" of every player who does the GAME a FAVOR by taking on a difficult role to memorize a few dozen docs, and being able to manipulate plots that no one who "isn't in on it" never gets to see, then I retract my previous high opinion of Tuluk. In addition, I find it amusing that Gimf has issues with "tribal lites" in Tuluk.

Edited to add: Fortunately, I don't believe for one second that subtlety is all about all that, and I still have a high opinion of Tuluk. Though the whole "tribal lite" thing still gives me a tickle.

[Malken]

I be nay e'en tryin' t' understand Tuluk anymore, looks like only Gimfalisette an' this so called "Marko" guy knows how t' do 't right 

And, yah, tribal lites? Screw you too.

[Gimfalisette]

By "tribal lites" I mean people who take the nomad subguild, aren't part of a coded tribe and/or haven't done any background for themselves as tribals, and aren't Tuluki citizens. The ones who, when you ask them what tribe they're from, they stare at you blankly, and it's clear they haven't really thought about the role. I've seen dozens of this type in Tuluk during my course of play there.

Misinterpret much, guys?

If subtlety involves inside jokes, the "behoovement" of every player who does the GAME a FAVOR by taking on a difficult role to memorize a few dozen docs, and being able to manipulate plots that no one who "isn't in on it" never gets to see, then I retract my previous high opinion of Tuluk.

Part of playing a sponsored role in any clan is actually working on embodying that role within the game. Yes, it's hard, but that's why the roles are sponsored roles.

And I have no clue where you're getting this idea about inside jokes.

Actually I find your whole tone offensive and unnecessary.

[Malken]

By "tribal lites" I mean people who take the nomad subguild, aren't part of a coded tribe and/or haven't done any background for themselves as tribals, and aren't Tuluki citizens. The ones who, when you ask them what tribe they're from, they stare at you blankly, and it's clear they haven't really thought about the role. I've seen dozens of this type in Tuluk during my course of play there.

Creatin' a "virtual" tribe an' havin' t' explain 't t' every sea dogs an' land lubbers ye meet an' answer a chestfull o' questions about 't brings a lot more headaches an' pains than jus' answerin', "I be from so an' so, they's all dead, now."

I don't blame 'em wi' th' nomad subguild if they don't want t' spend an hour havin' t' explain the'r virtual non-existant an' non-coded tribe t' swabbies who always get a kick at embarassin' an' shamin' players on accoun' o' they haven't
spent hours devlopin' a virtual tribe an' family.

Arr.

[staggerlee]

And I have no clue where you're getting this idea about inside jokes.

It looks like confusion between secretive, exclusive, scheming ic groups and some kind of ooc exclusiveness.  But I don't want to misrepresent her argument.
Behooved sure is a great word though.

[Yam]

I've seen some really awesome play from Tulukis lately.

[ale six]

Hey, I've missed threads like this! Good post, even if I don't necessarily agree with all of it.

Isolationism:Tuluk, much more than Allanak (that I remember), is able to foster an 'us against them' mentality. If you consider that Tuluk is made up of a series of urbanized tribes, this makes more sense. Traditions are guarded jealously, followed without question. Outsiders are distrusted - though not openly.

My experience has been that Tuluk has been a more open and welcoming society than Allanak. In Allanaki, racism and prejudice is everywhere, it is overt, and it smacks you straight in the face or knives you in the guts. Rinthers, breeds, elves, dwarves, northerners, Kuraci, gypsies, and even human tribals get ostracized everywhere. Most of the noble houses won't hire any of them, the few that do are usually special exceptions. Tuluk isn't completely free of racism or prejudice, but I noticed a lot less of it when I played there.

Implicit rank versus explicit rank:Unlike Allanak, the way to spot a power player in Tuluk is when they appear to have less rank than they actually do. Generally, the highest ranking individuals in an interaction will make some attempt to lower themselves to the lower ranking individual's station - because it is not necessary to explicitly state one's rank. It is understood by the lower ranking person that the upper is still above them, only making a gesture of rapport generation. The easiest way to slight someone in Tuluk is to equate your social standing with them while it is not actually so if you're of lower rank, or if you're of upper rank, to not make some kind of friendly gesture towards the lower ranking individual to know that its acceptable for them to talk to you. Basically, a snub.

Very true. Notice the ranks of the templars in Allanak are much easier to tell than in Tuluk -- in fact I couldn't tell you what the differences between a normal Lirathan and a High Templar Lirathan and a Precentor's uniforms are, despite having played in Tuluk for a long time with one of my characters. Nobles in Tuluk are also lots less overt about their rank and position and duties. I'm sure influential bards and commoners would all emulate this too.

Faith: Unlike Allanak, Tuluk's people are generally well-disposed towards the Sun King and the Templarate in general. Faith and devotion run rampant not because of fear, but of love, desire and trust. People honestly, deeply believe that Templars are better than they are. Chosen are better than they are. That the Sun King is wise, and nearly all-knowing, and that he is a benevolent figure in people's lives. This gives Tuluki characters a completely different feel from Allanaki ones.

Strongly disagree. Being faithful and trusting of Tektolnes is entirely possible and common in Allanak. I also think it's just as common and acceptable to play a Tuluki and be terrified of Muk Utep, believing him a tyrant sorcerer king, and be terrified of Tuluki Faithful, too. In both cities, believing that the nobility are better than you is a given.

[staggerlee]

So out of curiosity I went back to read some of Marko's posts.
This one in particular I thought could stand to be repeated:

My problem with Tuluk is that there's an idea there where everyone has to be refined, clean, and socially graceful. Lower class just isn't in the vocabulary up there. If you play a rough and tumble, dirty, and gruff character, it's like you're out of place.

I'm not sure if this is still the case.  I've met a variety of characters in Tuluk who weren't refined or clean and they fit Tuluk's theme perfectly.  I think the "need" to do the refined and polite thing is the first response people have towards Tuluk's culture and then, as it is explored they realize they can still be a "gritty" (just had to use that term) hunter type who is fairly rough and tumble and gruff and still fit the environment.

I'd put this as part of the growth cycle for Tuluk.

Course, I should probably add that rough and tumble does not mean pulling weapons out in public, threatening people in public, or attacking others in public - those are all very much against the law and there are other mechanisms in Tuluk for handling being upset with someone.  Specifically assassination or using thieves.  Also, note the public aspect - in private... that's a whole other ballgame.

And a thread on patronage for those who haven't seen it yet, I think patronage needs more lovin' from the players:

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,22298.msg236210.html#msg236210