What role does mudsex play for you?

[Tlaloc]

Partial derail from the "Current Languishing of Tuluki Nobility" thread found here: http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,32304.0.html.As a side question of my curiosity, can anyone explain the why and what function the relationship barrier between castes exists? On a more broader perspective though, what role does mud sex play for you and your character? Let's try to keep this umm...mature.

I think Gim makes some pretty valid points on some of the historical reasons behind the Tuluki cultural mores.

However, I think it boils down to this: they are simply a different culture from our own.

To explain a bit more: I think it's safe to say that almost everyone who plays this game comes from a "Western" culture. Our own culture colors our belief system, and we - usually without thinking about it - can make judgements based on our Western bias. Allanak can be easier to understand as a culture because it's very familiar to us, and has a more classical "western" society. Tuluk on the other hand, is different. Tuluk has many concepts which are, frankly, rather alien to modern western eyes. Legal assassinations and theft? Bu-whaa?

Inter-caste sexuality is one of these. While it might make sense to you, as a westerner, that sexual relations between two different castes would be "a good thing" and "no big deal", to the Tulukis it is. To Tuluki's it's just one of those things that you just don't do - kind of like how we don't (at least openly) have sex with our sisters or marry 13 year-olds. To other cultures, having sex with your sister or marrying a 13 year-old is "no big deal". In our culture, you're probably going to be ostracized for the first, and you're going to jail for the second.

I think it can be hard for people to remove the veil of the trappings that their own culture gives them. This is more or less what the whole concept of Cultural Relativity in Anthropology revolves around: individual or group beliefs and activities (and their moral weight) can only be understood in terms of that person's own culture. While the behavior might not make sense to you, it makes perfect sense to the Tuluki.

What this means for players (of any roleplaying game) is that it's important to try and remove yourself from your own cultural trappings, and embrace the cultural trappings of the role and character you're playing. You are all cultural anthropologists, emersing yourselves in the culture you are playing in. In many ways, people do this quite often already: people are A-Ok playing elves who don't ride mounts, and like to steal things and lie a lot. I think this is supported with many, many years of people playing elves who didn't ride mounts, and liked to lie and steal a lot.

The problem with Tuluk is that it's still (even years and years later) kind of "new". It can be hard to accept "new" things, and strict rules (like if you pork someone outisde of your caste, you'll be stored) were put in place in order to help the historical culture develop. That isn't to say there aren't pervert Tuluki's who like sneaking off to make inter-caste whoopie, but that they are the exception to the rule, and not the norm. Since you cannot have exceptions without a steady, standard baseline already in place, I imagine the staff would rather everyone play a "standard" role for the most part, and special app for the pervs.

[Briarfox]

While sex is forbidden between the castes in Tuluk, romantic relationships have happened before. There is always repercussions for both castes.

Personally, for me, the sexual taboos of Tuluk was the appeal to play a noble for various reasons.

[Gimfalisette]

And I resent that there is an assumption that *characters* who have intimate romantic interests in other *characters* are the result of *players* who want to mudsex. I also resent that people who -do- want to mudsex, perpetuate this myth on purpose.

Why get so worked up about what other people do or don't do, or enjoy or don't enjoy, in game? Sure, there are a lot of players looking for mudsex. There are also a lot of players looking to smash a scrab. Or find Steinal. Or whatever. But their desires don't dictate what I do; they don't affect me.

Though, I have to say, two years ago the whole phenomena of IC relationships and mudsex freaked me out quite a bit. (Who did it, why were they doing it, were they getting off on it, what was their ulterior motive, were they going to use it against me or anyone else OOCly, were they really stalkers waiting for an outlet?) But since then I've come to trust the playerbase and my own judgment on these things.

[Nyr]

Moderated a post.  Please don't troll threads or flame players.

[Rairen]

Partial derail from the "Current Languishing of Tuluki Nobility" thread found here: http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,32304.0.html. While reading a few posts on the thread, people were mentioning that having the intimate relationship barrier between castes was a detriment to the role. As a side question of my curiosity, can anyone explain the why and what function the relationship barrier between castes exists? On a more broader perspective though, what role does mud sex play for you and your character? Let's try to keep this umm...mature.

Two pages in, and I nearly forgot what the OP was asking for.   

1.  To me, the function is to ensure differences (as Barzalene explained), in two ways.  Culturally, it's tougher, it's more challenging, and it's ultimately more rewarding - because it prevents the world from dissolving into two-dimensions, although it does mean some players have to sacrifice things to make it work.  We actually have two city-states with cultural differences not driven by pop culture (a la, Lord of the Rings).  How cool is that?  It also helps give roleplaying ideas to us sods who need a little... creative guidance.

"How would I play a person who would have no sexual attraction to a person, who is really, really attractive?"
"What is love without sex?" 
"How do I keep a character human under all of these restrictions?"

All the sorts of curious questions from which memorable character experiences are born.  I, for one, doubt I ever would have seriously thought over some of the things playing in Tuluk has in the past made me ponder.  -_-

2.  I think my favorite kind of drama is of the romantic kind.  Coupled with an overwhelming love of messing with players' (and to an extent characters') heads and I'd say that sex, love, and everything in between takes up a majority of my mundane & memorable RPing time.  Those conflicts have a way of perking my interest.

[FuSoYa]

I just want to say Tlaloc has some great perspective on shit. 

As for mudsex/relationships.  Well, I've only been playing a year and some change but I'm one of those characters who doesn't go out actively looking for relationships yet I've had a few rather successful PCs who have had very meaningful relationships.  They just didn't every really make it more then friendships.

It's just not my thing.  As for being a young American male.  Yea... I guess.  I'm 24, white, male.... so yes, but I do have a girlfriend IRL and we've been in a relationship over a year.

At the end of the day it's something I've always considered with my PCs and something that might come up in the future it's just not something I actively go out of my way to find or even to encourage.  It just seems two dimensional to me... I don't know, I get all the relationship I need in real life so the game is a bit of an escape.

Sorry, probably babbling.

Brandon

[Nile]

Mudsex = lame

If I wanted to pick up girls I'd walk outside.

[Haze]

What role does mud sex play for you and your character?

I've always found that my characters never "click" with me until they get into a romantic relationship.  I may enjoy my characters, but they never feel juuuuust right until that happens.  It's something that solidifies the reason I play an RPI mud instead of just playing Fallout 3, or writing a short story: the romantic interest becomes an integral part of my character's story that I really have little control over, and it forces me to flesh them out into a fully multi-dimensional character.  (I can't say the same for my character's non-romantic frienships and relationships, but I suspect that's because I'm paranoid and always assume my character's "friends" will betray my character at some point.)

Mudsex for me is a game of RP chicken.  It's not something I actively seek; if anything, I try and avoid it because it's just so damned time-consuming while accomplishing very little, but it ultimately comes up in my character's romantic relationships.  When mudsex does come up, I'm forced to wrestle with my desire, as a player, to not waste too much time whispering sweet nothings, my desire NOT to break character, and my desire to act out all of my character's events wide-eyed, through the good, bad, and gruesome.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

I personally have always found romantic relationships (and the drama they bring) or a lack of romantic relationships or attraction (and the reasons why) to be really interesting facets of my characters.

Anything else I would have wanted to say has already been said.

[tortall]

So here's a kinda of new question.... Since Tuluki nobles have no interest in anyone other than Tuluki nobles... Does that means it is common to be attracted to a cousin or sister/brother? Or even a mother/father?

The cousin thing is probably hard to aviod since there were such few numbers years ago, but how is that seen now?

[Lizzie]

So here's a kinda of new question.... Since Tuluki nobles have no interest in anyone other than Tuluki nobles... Does that means it is common to be attracted to a cousin or sister/brother? Or even a mother/father?

The cousin thing is probably hard to aviod since there were such few numbers years ago, but how is that seen now?

I think, people are expected to take the virtual population into consideration. If there is only one PC Tenneshi, and no other PC nobles at all, that Tenneshi has HUNDREDS of people to be attracted to, in the virtual world of virtual noble houses. He can be best friends with Virtual Chosen Lady Matilda Winrothol and he can solo-emote his virtual tea party while they virtually flirt, but don't do anything about it, because he is virtually attracted to men and she is a virtual lesbian but the virtual flirting game is FUN regardless And in the meantime, he is virtually boinking Virtual Chosen Lord Foopy Negean every third Nekrete, with all kinds of fun fades and virtual graphics (because Virtual Foopy consents, yay!). While the rest of us non-noble players are free to enjoy the dynamics of actual PC-PC interaction in terms of romance, vague attraction with no forthcoming results, sex itself, love, cuddling, physical affection of ANY sort including the platonic sort, the solo PC noble's player must be satisfied with his virtual playpals. Or, he can retire, and join the rest of the PC population that is allowed to have dynamic relationships with each other.

[Gimfalisette]

So here's a kinda of new question.... Since Tuluki nobles have no interest in anyone other than Tuluki nobles... Does that means it is common to be attracted to a cousin or sister/brother? Or even a mother/father?

The cousin thing is probably hard to aviod since there were such few numbers years ago, but how is that seen now?

Each of the Tuluki noble houses probably has somewhere in the realm of 200 noble family members. Maybe a little more or little less. They are not ginormous like the Allanaki noble families, but there's plenty of them for marriages between the houses. Or for falling in love with, potentially.

Also Tuluki nobles use infertile, human sex slaves for when there's a purely sexual urge.

[brytta.leofa]

I find that a romantic relationship makes for a much greater depth of feeling than most others.  It's almost a shortcut, really: you can reach a level of emotional entanglement in a few months that would take many years and near-death experiences to match with a mere coworker.

The death of my good huntin' buddy Amos is to be avenged with all due diligence.  But the death of my mate...that's to be avenged with extreme prejudice.  That means blood.  And fingers.

I'm afraid that I always play excessively romantic characters.

[Is Friday]

I like romance in all aspects, whether it be dirty byn-loving or snooty Kadian drama. I draw the line when it becomes a fixation of spending the most time possible in an apartment. There are ways for me to enjoy my character without mudsex!

[FantasyWriter]

So here's a kinda of new question.... Since Tuluki nobles have no interest in anyone other than Tuluki nobles... Does that means it is common to be attracted to a cousin or sister/brother? Or even a mother/father?

The cousin thing is probably hard to aviod since there were such few numbers years ago, but how is that seen now?

For more information on Armageddon insest, please visit the Jul Tavan documentation.

[tortall]

I wasn't asking that so I could mudsex, just fyi. I was wondering if that is part of the culture of Tuluk. After reading all this I understand WHY, it's that way, I just think it makes it harder to play, and.... Well, this derails to the Tuluki noble thing, so I'll post the continuation in there.

But I was not asking so I could have mudsex. :-p

And as soon as I get to my own computer I'll do just that FW. This computer hates loading pages and I am about ready to shoot it. :-D

[Clearsighted]

How does the whole 'infertile human sex slave' thing work?

Aren't those sex slaves in a different caste? Or is there a special 'sex slave only caste' ?

It seems a bit weird to have such a massive taboo against inter-caste dating a poet or such on one hand, and then flippant references to hordes of virtually subhuman slaves to get off on.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Slaves aren't people.  They don't count as 'below your caste' because they don't count as people.  They're.. slaves.  Sex slaves are for sex.  They're brought up for it, trained to it, and that's all they're for.

[jstorrie]

On a more broader perspective though, what role does mud sex play for you and your character?

None.

[ale six]

Do I NEED romance in my characters' lives? No, and sometimes I do get tired by all the drama associated with it. But it can be fun to have, and it's a good method for establishing some hooks and relationships with other characters. It's not essential, but it's an aspect of a character like anything else, and I like to roleplay serious character concepts that are as close to somebody real as I can get them.

Roleplaying sex is just a product of roleplaying a romantic relationship. I don't think there's any shame in it -- just like real relationships can develop through sex, your characters' relationships can too. It's character development, and that's good. Of course, it can also be a real chore, but that's why you can fade to black or gloss over things.

I don't think there's any shame in it.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

I'll also say that I as a player have let my characters do some really stupid, crazy stupid things when lovers of my characters have died that they definitely wouldn't have done if rational, if they're the types of characters that are attached to their lovers.  One of those instances was actually one of my favorite roleplay moments on Arm.  To reiterate that intimate relationships aren't ALL about the mudsex.

[Is Friday]

I got no shame in baring it all.

No shame.

I've drank a little tonight.

[Dakkon Black]

I try to just keep my shit IC, so there have been a few times when people were dropping clothing and I was in the room, but that's just what was happening in the game. I definately don't go out looking for love since for the most part I like playing exploring, adventure etc. more than passionate embraces. In the end for 93 percent of the time the ftb is preferred by me, playing it out it low on my priority list.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

I don't think the adventurely exploring type and the passionately embracing type are mutually exclusive.

[Barzalene]

Well, in Dakkon's defense, It's hard to run from those spiders with your pants around your ankles and your woman wrapped around your waist.