The Current Languishing of Tuluki Nobility

[a strange shadow]

For the record, Hlum nobles ARE nobles. They are not commoners, or "commoner nobles". They have ascended to the noble caste; but there is a distinction, they are Hlum (of common birth) as opposed to Surif (of noble birth). There's a slightly similar situation in the Templarate caste as well.. They (Hlum) are permitted to get as naughty as they want with the Surif, the question is whether the Surif would want to. Consorts are further... discouraged... from such actions, even though they're lawfully allowed to, since they're not even the actual winners of the Hunt, and they're essentially married for life to their Chosen Lord/Lady. If a Surif was sleeping with a Hlum noble, they would probably have very good reasons (i.e. marriage contract, which is permitted) and/or it would be kept reasonably low-key.

This is my impression of how things are in the game, at least.

[Jingo]

And I am intrigued.

Once I'm done with this character, I'll app a Tuluki noble. Hopefully there will be a few foppish mudsexxors thinking the same thing.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I do believe I'll be joining in with the group planning on apping for nobles after their current character. 

[path]

This is the best thread I've read in at least the last two years. I really learned a few things about Tuluk, mostly from Tlaloc's posts, which were amazing, though I really enjoyed all of A Strange Shadow's comments as well.

I'm startled to find after reading all this I am actually interested in playing a northern noble. Too bad I have my hands full with my current role. Good luck and god speed, kiddos.

I was disappointed more staff didn't weigh in (not to discount Nyr).

[tortall]

Ok, after following this and the thread about what role mudsex plays for you, I understand WHY the caste system is set up the way it is.

However, I think the lack of viable romantic realtionships for Tuluki nobles is a HUGE part of why people don't stick around. I am sorry, but a vNPC relationship is just plain BORING! There is no room for it to change the plot, and MANY plots come from trechery due to love/lust/romance. I feel that such a strong barrier for any romantic relationship, even if the CHARACTERS never have sex but are secretly interested in each other, is a bit overmuch. I am SURE that the Tuluki nobles have heard about how it is in Nak, think they're whores for sleepign around as they do, so they don't. But being attracted to someone?

So, here's my question: If a noble devlopes more than friendly feelings for a commoner, but does not ACT on them, is that a problem? I mean, they know they're not suppose to feel this way and would be... put to death?... if anyone knew about their feelings, but they can't help what they feel, right? Ok, yes, you the player can take away those feelings. I just think something like that would make the Tuluki nobles more interesting to play.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'd rather see such relationships punishable by death, than to see them OOCly banned. I do feel like it makes a harsher roleplaying experience than nessessary. If you tell players their characters can die from acting out, and then actually pay attention to what's going on and what VNPCs and NPCs will see what, then I think that's enough enforcement.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

I'd rather see such relationships punishable by death, than to see them OOCly banned.

I'm totally on this boat.  IC consequences for IC actions are entirely what I'm about.  I can understand that there would be way too many 'exceptions' if there wasn't a rule, but it's an IC rule so I'd be happier if the consequences were IC.  Especially if the forced storing was replaced by a scene where you have to take poison while someone tells you how much you've humiliated your bloodlines.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'll add another potential reason that Tuluki Nobility is hurting right now. Aside from political foes, options have been cut down a tad as far as plotting and scheming go outside of our States. Those who know, know what I am talking about, and while it's cool in a way and it's open to a bit of interpretation, it keeps us from having another ... oh, say, Copper War.

[Barzalene]

Ok, after following this and the thread about what role mudsex plays for you, I understand WHY the caste system is set up the way it is.

However, I think the lack of viable romantic realtionships for Tuluki nobles is a HUGE part of why people don't stick around. I am sorry, but a vNPC relationship is just plain BORING! There is no room for it to change the plot, and MANY plots come from trechery due to love/lust/romance. I feel that such a strong barrier for any romantic relationship, even if the CHARACTERS never have sex but are secretly interested in each other, is a bit overmuch. I am SURE that the Tuluki nobles have heard about how it is in Nak, think they're whores for sleepign around as they do, so they don't. But being attracted to someone?

So, here's my question: If a noble devlopes more than friendly feelings for a commoner, but does not ACT on them, is that a problem? I mean, they know they're not suppose to feel this way and would be... put to death?... if anyone knew about their feelings, but they can't help what they feel, right? Ok, yes, you the player can take away those feelings. I just think something like that would make the Tuluki nobles more interesting to play.

That's valid. And not playing this role because that aspect of the role is not appealing is valid. I don't play magickers. That said there are people who can enjoy roles that are not centered around romantic rp. Some of -them- should consider filling this void.

[Barzalene]

I'd rather see such relationships punishable by death, than to see them OOCly banned. I do feel like it makes a harsher roleplaying experience than nessessary. If you tell players their characters can die from acting out, and then actually pay attention to what's going on and what VNPCs and NPCs will see what, then I think that's enough enforcement.

Very very cool idea.

And oh my goodness imagine the fun of trying to pull off this kind of relationship. Disguises. Hiding. Lovely.

[Mood]

I'll add another potential reason that Tuluki Nobility is hurting right now. Aside from political foes, options have been cut down a tad as far as plotting and scheming go outside of our States. Those who know, know what I am talking about, and while it's cool in a way and it's open to a bit of interpretation, it keeps us from having another ... oh, say, Copper War.

This has bothered me for quite some time, and it really extends beyond the city-states.

I hate it.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Yeh. However, ICly, it was and is the right thing to do. OOCly, we know it was Staff encouraged, above and beyond player efforts.

[brytta.leofa]

It's obviously time for a Crazy Eddy.

(You've created a monster here, Tisiphone, really.)

[NoteworthyFellow]

Yeh. However, ICly, it was and is the right thing to do. OOCly, we know it was Staff encouraged, above and beyond player efforts.

Yeah, I agree about the whole thing, but I think it opens up avenues for a whole different sort of conflict, even where it shuts some down.

[ale six]

I had the chance to play a trusted senior servant to Tenneshi once a while ago, before the New Tuluk stuff, and I enjoyed it a whole lot. My girl's relationship with her Chosen Lady had different dynamics than the typical noble-servant relationship in the south does. On some levels my northern servant felt a lot closer "professionally" to the Chosen because she wasn't there to be eye candy or a sex object, she was just there to do a job and do it well. Her Chosen treated her closer to an equal in lots of ways, and confided in her, and trusted her with a lot of things you wouldn't typically see in the south. Of course I had the privledge of playing with Synoru Tenneshi and she was awesome.

Having played in both, though, I still like Allanaki politics more. I think on average they're sharper, deadlier, more brutal, haughtier, more cruel, and no less subtle. Much of that is probably because the nobility are richer, silkier, bitchier and seemingly have more to fight over -- and plus, Blue Robes are always fighting too, and that's something 'nakki nobles can take sides on.

The new Tuluki system does sound intriguing to me, and I'd probably get in on it, except I've sworn off that kinda stuff with my future characters.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

You can swear off intrigue in this game?     Where does that happen?

[flurry]

I suspect the biggest problem here is that inactivity begets inactivity in the noble caste. I know I would be reluctant to apply for a Tuluki noble role, largely because of concerns that there aren't any active ones. For me, the social limitations would be mostly irrelevant, as long as there were people to scheme with and against.

Having said that, change only happens when people step up and do it.

[Dalmeth]

My personal opinion is that the current stale situation stems solely from the fact that there hasn't been someone with the nerve to really push things around in some time.  You can list any number of factors, but the start of any good environment is a player willing to stick through the slow times and wait for other players to start playing around him/her.   Some people will wait forever because all they do is wait for someone else to start something.

The people who can create something from nothing are truly a rare breed.

[a strange shadow]

Untrue. There was recently a very motivated Surif Chosen in Tuluk. They kicked ass and took numbers. Unfortunately there were no other Surif around to recieve or aid in said asskickings, but even so, that sole existing Surif did a lot.

That said, it's unfair to expect the burden of "starting something" to rest entirely on one PCs shoulders, especially when their player may have reasons not to be the "star of the show" - whether that is RL concerns, character traits, IC limitations, or a combination of those factors. There should be a number of Chosen if Tuluk is to work at all as intended, and to help share the burden of public interaction, employing PCs, and running whatever plots their character gets wrapped up in. As well, many plots may be of a sensitive or otherwise non-public nature, and it's better to assume that someone's up to something you don't know about, rather than assuming that they're doing nothing because you don't see them parked in the tavern every day.

If you perceive a lack and want to start something, start something. As flurry's signature says, be the change.

[tortall]

YES! Exactally. Punish the out of caste stuff ICLY!! And not because your imms were watching and know what you're thinking if you use the think command. But because you did something stupid to show your feelings.


.... There was something else I wanted to say, and I just read over the posts again.... I still can't remember. ~sigh~

[Reiloth]

There was a 'karma off of 2007' not too long ago. The result forced me to look at why I played Magickers, and for nearly a year, foreswore playing one, and stored the Whiran I was playing at the time.

*hint hint*

[Tlaloc]

YES! Exactally. Punish the out of caste stuff ICLY!! And not because your imms were watching and know what you're thinking if you use the think command. But because you did something stupid to show your feelings.


.... There was something else I wanted to say, and I just read over the posts again.... I still can't remember. ~sigh~

To be fair, I think the implication was supposed to be that your PC would be punished ICly, the results of which would be death (ie: storage) of the character. It being Tuluk, however, the only evidence of anything amiss might have been a swath of sudden and mysterious dissappearances of the noble, the commoner, the cook and chamber maid who knew of the affair, and the commoner's immediate family. By coincidence, a new series of songs, tales, and plays would suddenly come into fashion in Tuluk, who's themes seemed to ironically point to the folly of inter-caste mingling.

[a strange shadow]

I would love to see things related to Tuluki culture like that be played out more often, but as things stand now, it would require a lot of even-handed staff dedication and some serious attention to running and maintaining plots, which is currently lacking.  As well, I have noticed an overall trend to apply the restrictions or downsides more heavily than the opportunities or upsides; players usually need no help in making their character's lives difficult and/or challenging, and could often use support instead (which does not translate to a free ride), especially in a role which has mostly virtual components and/or influences.

This isn't meant to be an attack, or to disparage the efforts of no-doubt busy staff members, but to point out that things simply aren't happening as apparently intended. If the Tuluki staff are feeling overwhelmed or unable to keep up with things (and there is NO shame in that, I've staffed at another RPI in the past and know very well how that can happen), perhaps that's an issue that should be addressed.

[Fathi]

This is going to sound like a snipe, but it's really not. It's an honest opinion from a player with a fair deal of Tuluki experience and other experiences to compare it to.

I believe that Tuluk's societal leanings toward subtlety and its behind-closed-doors style of politics hampers the formation of conflict, plots, and interaction among the castes, and in the end hurts the playerbase's desire to play nobility up there.

For one thing, I always used to see people on the GDB saying, "Well if you aren't involved in stuff in Tuluk right now you're just not trying hard enough!" or "you're looking in the wrong places!" or other comments.

Which begs the question... is it conducive to our overall fun to have an entire population centre in the game where if you want fun and plots, you have to go digging for them, even from your own employers? Is it helpful to new players or infrequent players or off-peak players or players unfamiliar with that area of the game to establish a culture where the intrigue and moving-and-shaking is purposefully hidden from view?

It's easy to just say, "Oh, Fathi, if you didn't get involved in shit when you were playing in Tuluk, you were doing it wrong," but this isn't about my personal experiences.

What I'm trying to say is that in other areas of the game, it's much, much easier to notice when Cool Things are Going On. Which is an important draw for new or new-to-the-area players. People may be wary of apping Chosen or sticking with roles that would make things more entertaining for Chosen because when they've played in Tuluk, they weren't able to discern the difference between "cultivated air of calm" and "nothing going on."

[Janna]

While I may agree with some points of that, Fathi, right now I'd just like to see the Tuluki Noble staff weigh in on this if with nothing more then "We're looking into it." or something. Once Tuluk actually see's some love in the way of (Active) leaders, then maybe the issue of how to bring about easier conflict could be brought up.

I really, really, really like the Tuluk set up and system. I can do that, and still agree with Fathi that is -would- be helpful if more open conflict -could- be brought about if necessary/worthwhile to create plots and more fun for the city/players as a whole.