The Current Languishing of Tuluki Nobility

[FuSoYa]

A note... just because you don't see them running around and doing things doesn't mean they aren't there when you are, aren't there when you aren't, or any other situation like that. 

That's the kind of reasoning that won't get the Tuluk problem solved.

I hope I'm not being rude by saying this, but I think that Jihaen Templars are probably the least of what makes Tuluk what it is supposed to be.

To make Tuluk what it is supposed to be, I think we really need at the very least two -active- Lirathan templars and at the very least three Chosen Nobles.

Saying that "It's not because you don't see them around that they aren't active", when some of the players in this thread are spending 80% of their online time at the Sanctuary and still
never manage to see a Chosen or a Faithful Lady is not very productive to getting the problem solved.

The #1 issue is the need for another Faithful Lady, and I absolutely don't understand why there hasn't been any new request for one in the last six months.

So I'm just going to assume that it's an IC thing and the Nobles of Tuluk share a genetic component with the kanks and are slowly disappearing as well.

Nothing I said had anything to do with the current problem.  I just didn't think it was fair to make assumptions on the two current Tuluki templars who are active.  I'd love to see the north's politics flourish I just think consideration should be taken of the other players when posting. 

Most people do their best with what they have.

Brandon

[Gimfalisette]

Nothing I said had anything to do with the current problem.  I just didn't think it was fair to make assumptions on the two current Tuluki templars who are active.  I'd love to see the north's politics flourish I just think consideration should be taken of the other players when posting. 

Most people do their best with what they have.

No one's blaming the current active templar(s) or noble(s). In fact, part of what we're saying is that it's not fair for the burden of leadership to rest entirely on one or two people, when the city is designed for a minimum of 1 each active -junior- Lirathan and Jihaen, and 4 junior Surif Chosen. While Allanak can get by with just one pretty active blue robe (because generally speaking blue robes are all the same), Tuluk can't do without both Jihaens and Lirathans in public view; their functions are just too different.

And I'll make a further note: Above, I said what's needed is -junior- leadership. This is always true in both Allanak and Tuluk. High Templars and Red Robes and Senior nobles are all well and good, but due to the loftiness of their positions they really should be directing the activities of templars and nobles just under them, not the common rabble. Also, they generally do not have the freshness and spark of a player who's new to the role and trying to get stuff going.

[Malken]

Most people do their best with what they have.

Brandon

I totally agree on that, real life comes first, always, but I don't think it's an insult to them either to say that they appear only somewhat partly active if that is the truth.

Unless they've all suddenly started popping back in game since last week, there IS a lack of Faithful Ladies and Chosens currently in game, and us saying so has nothing to do with the players currently playing one.

Hmm, yah, what Gimfy says.

It still boggles me that there's a lack of response from the Tuluk Staff on this *sigh*

If it's for an IC reason, then please tell us that it's for an IC reason.

Otherwise, please explain to us why there isn't any openings for Chosens in Tuluk and at least a new Faithful Lady, when it seems like we see announcements for a new Tor noble and Allanak templars every month or so.

[Janna]

Last check on Tuluki Templars returned a response that (at the time - a month/month and a half ago) was there were too many.

As for the Chosen, no response yet.

[Lizzie]

Last check on Tuluki Templars returned a response that (at the time - a month/month and a half ago) was there were too many.

As for the Chosen, no response yet.

Too many? Where did you read that? Since when is one Lirathan whose player can't play actively, regularly, "too many" Lirathans? (I say can't, because I assume that if she could, she would. Her character certainly is interesting and missed)

[Jingo]

As for the Chosen, no response yet.

I'll be moving on for now.

[Malken]

Last check on Tuluki Templars returned a response that (at the time - a month/month and a half ago) was there were too many.

As for the Chosen, no response yet.

Too many? Where did you read that? Since when is one Lirathan whose player can't play actively, regularly, "too many" Lirathans? (I say can't, because I assume that if she could, she would. Her character certainly is interesting and missed)

This is what bothers me as well, when I emailed the Tuluki Staff a few weeks ago, they told me that they had "three active Faithful" in Tuluk, and that Tuluk has more Faithful per citizen than they do in Allanak. (I'm certainly not sure about that, but it's part of the reply I've received).

I don't know if they just look at numbers and not really at the time played by those Faithful, but it is not true that we have three active Faithfuls in Tuluk.

We have two semi active ones and, the most important, in my mind, a lack of Faithful Lady. (Now I really feel guilty because it sounds like we are putting pressure on that player to log in more often than she probably can, when in fact, like Gimfalisette says, we need more
active -new- Faithful Ladies, not to pressure the High Templar Lady to log in if she can't)

I was also told that the Staff agreed with me that they could certainly use more Chosen (The email was on the 8/15), and that "With the clan rotations and recent changes in the northern noble houses, the new staff of northern nobles may address that."

I don't know what those recent changes are or if the clan rotations happened yet, but this would be nice if it was addressed in this thread.

[Gimfalisette]

Side note related to the discussion: I really wish that important clan roles were measured in terms of total play hours, rather than by quantity of PCs in those roles. Example, Tuluk might need:

10 hours peak-time Lirathan representation per week
10 hours peak-time Jihaen representation per week
20 hours peak-time Chosen representation per week
10 hours Kadian family member merchant representation per week
10 hours Salarri family member merchant representation per week
Etc.

Instead of:
1 Lirathan templar
2 Jihaen templars
4 Chosen
1 Kadian
1 Salarri
Etc.

Then players could commit to a certain quantity of hours per week and split up the burden amongst them.

I mean, yes, Tuluk "has" a Lirathan right now. But if that Lirathan's player is currently unable to play, or to play more than a couple hours per week, then the role may as well be unfilled. If there was another Lirathan who could take up the missing hours, I'm sure that would help both the playerbase AND the player of the existing Lirathan. One of the reasons that these roles become so burdensome over the long run is precisely because of the ongoing demands on time.

[Lizzie]

It's especially frustrating, when the -only- active "this or that" goes on vacation for a RL week. It's like, ok, everyone just - don't bother logging in this week, because you have no one to report to, no one to pay you, no one to catch you fucking up, no one to give you tasks, no one to collect the shit we asked for the week before. We are IT - and we are on vacation, so just go away and don't bother trying, cause everything is at a standstill until we get back.

That is why we need more than one of each....and why at LEAST one of those, needs to be active, regularly, during peak time.

[a strange shadow]

One of the reasons that these roles become so burdensome over the long run is precisely because of the ongoing demands on time.

QFFE.

(Quoted For Fucking Emphasis)

[NoteworthyFellow]

One of the reasons that these roles become so burdensome over the long run is precisely because of the ongoing demands on time.

QFFE.

(Quoted For Fucking Emphasis)

DQFFTAEADIMT

(Double-Quoted For Fucking Truth And Emphasis And Did I Mention Truth)

[Malken]

One of the reasons that these roles become so burdensome over the long run is precisely because of the ongoing demands on time.

QFFE.

(Quoted For Fucking Emphasis)

QFFFFFE.

The main reason I stop enjoying a role is when I start feeling like everyone else is waiting for me to log on to poor buckets full of questions and demands on.

You know it gets pretty bad when the minute you log in you already have three people in your head wanting for you to solve their problems and it goes on
like this until you log out, and you have no one else to send them to.

The more I feel like this is happening, the less I want to log in, and the worse it gets the moment I log back in.

When you wake up at 4am trying to solve a PC's problem in your half-awaken dream state, you know it's time to store and move on ;p

THAT'S WHY I MUST SAY AGAIN THAT THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THOSE WHO ARE CURRENTLY PLAYING A FAITHFUL OR CHOSEN ROLE, WE LOVE YOU AND TREASURE THE TIME YOU CAN GIVE US.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

And I sorta like this: I'm a control freak.

[Delstro]

Since my last comment was ignored it looks like.

The way the new Tuluki noble system is designed would work better if the Tuluki noble "clan" was open, as in anyone could apply and play a noble after submitting a special request to have one. Much like how D-elves work currently, but everyone needs to be pre-approved, not just magicker d-elves.

I like Malken's Dilemma. I love doing that.

[Lizzie]

THAT'S WHY I MUST SAY AGAIN THAT THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THOSE WHO ARE CURRENTLY PLAYING A FAITHFUL OR CHOSEN ROLE, WE LOVE YOU AND TREASURE THE TIME YOU CAN GIVE US.

BUT: WE NEED MORE FILLED QUANTITIES OF THESE ROLES. (Well, and SOME Surif Chosen, since there aren't any and more than 0 could still be less than 1.)

Edited to clarify Surif, thanks to strange shadow, cause we already do have "a Chosen" but it's different.

[Southie]

Speaking without any knowledge of the current state in Tuluk, but just as somebody who plays leaders in general...

The more I see players unapologetically complaining about how often I play or not, the less excited I am to go and play.

[a strange shadow]

WE NEED MORE FILLED QUANTITIES OF THESE ROLES. (Well, and SOME Surif Chosen, since there aren't any and more than 0 could still be less than 1.)

ftfy.

[Gimfalisette]

And I sorta like this: I'm a control freak.

Probably most people who thrive in the leader role enjoy a certain quantity of being needed and wanted. But when the role becomes ALL business, and one's time is limited in some way, and one's character is encountering the same problems over and over, and one does not have a suitable minion (or three) to whom to delegate...then it stops being fun. This is what things appear to be for the current nobles and templars in Tuluk. There are too few, with too few hours, and when they log in they get slammed to take care of non-interesting details.

I mean, there's only so many merchant licenses, sneaky licenses (in Tuluk), gems (in Nak), complaints about petty theft, complaints about soldiers, etc. that a single authority figure can handle, proportionate to total time spent in game, and still have fun. But the playerbase doesn't stop needing this stuff just because a templar only has 2 hours per week to give. The burden needs to be shared so that templars and nobles can both get their IC jobs done, AND have fun.

Speaking without any knowledge of the current state in Tuluk, but just as somebody who plays leaders in general...

The more I see players unapologetically complaining about how often I play or not, the less excited I am to go and play.

You really haven't been reading the thread if you are characterizing it like that.

[Nyr]

Noble roles won't ever be like desert elves in the way they are accepted/set up.  The scope of support is very, very, very different on the staff side.
I'm helping get some of these Surif apps reviewed.

[Gimfalisette]

I'm helping get some of these Surif apps reviewed.

<3

[Southie]

Speaking without any knowledge of the current state in Tuluk, but just as somebody who plays leaders in general...

The more I see players unapologetically complaining about how often I play or not, the less excited I am to go and play.

You really haven't been reading the thread if you are characterizing it like that.

I wasn't characterizing the whole thread, just some of it. I actually agree with your idea of measuring activity by hours of playtime, not by how many characters are in a role.

[Gimfalisette]

I wasn't characterizing the whole thread, just some of it. I actually agree with your idea of measuring activity by hours of playtime, not by how many characters are in a role.

It would really work well for a lot of things. Sometimes clan leaders get told to stop hiring just because of body count in the clan, but that doesn't mean the clan necessarily is sucking up too much of the total playerbase hours. The power of a clan when it comes to PCs is largely dependent on player hours (at all levels from leader down to grunt), not simple player count.

[NoteworthyFellow]

Sometimes clan leaders get told to stop hiring just because of body count in the clan, but that doesn't mean the clan necessarily is sucking up too much of the total playerbase hours. The power of a clan when it comes to PCs is largely dependent on player hours (at all levels from leader down to grunt), not simple player count.

Total playerbase hours would be a fantastic statistic to have.  Just sayin'.

Noble roles won't ever be like desert elves in the way they are accepted/set up.  The scope of support is very, very, very different on the staff side.

I don't know if it was meant to mean that Tuluki nobles would be as open and frequently granted as desert elf roles, but that they would simply always be open for applications to any House, and the staff, when they receive an app, could simply say, "Well, we have too many Tuluki nobles now, but thanks for applying," or, if there happens to be a gap when someone submits an app, "Hey, good timing, we could use a new noble up in Tuluk!"

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember a time when noble roles were like that, even in the South.  In 2001 or so, I believe I applied for an Oashi noble (and was granted the role) just by emailing the House Oash staff with my application.  I don't think there was an open call at all, but again, I could be remembering incorrectly.

I'm helping get some of these Surif apps reviewed.

Jawesome.

[tortall]

Re: The Current Languishing of Tuluki Nobility
« Reply #141 on: September 11, 2008, 01:43:19 am »
   Reply with quote
The above statement is misleading.

Just because a clan is listed as "Open" doesn't necessarily mean the staff are accepting applications for new nobles at a given time. What it means is the clan is open for play and has staff assigned (as opposed to "Closed" clans and tribes, which have no assigned staff and aren't open to players.) I can't speak for the staff on Tuluki Nobles, but if/when they're ready to accept new applications, they'll post something.

Re: The Current Languishing of Tuluki Nobility
« Reply #142 on: September 11, 2008, 01:47:06 am »
   Reply with quote
I think she just mean more along the lines of: "If you don't like the way things are, quite griping, get off your butt, and do something about it."

That is indeed what I meant. I get really frustrated when people don't realize they can send imms an app for whatever even if there's no call for it. I don't think one of my apps for a family member for a noble or merchant house was ever requested. I just sent it in and started playing.

On an exciting note I heard from a friend that the Tuluki Noble imms are currently reviewing several apps. I sure hope several go though so we'll have say... Five at least semi active?

And someone should pm me on how to make these crazy quotes work. I apparently am doing it wrong.

[Jherlen]

I am really confused on how this works:

I'm not asking really 'how' it works, but rather, 'does' it work, code-wise. Are these written authorizations backed up by the code? In other words, if Chosen Governor Jimbob is authorized to pass localized laws in the Warrens, and says "no more wearing of pink clothing on Nekrete!" does he have -coded- authority to arrest someone who is caught wearing pink in the warrens on Nekrete?

In terms of coded authority, i.e. crim code immunity, my understanding is no.

If he arrests them, is there a place he can take them? I mean do they go to the Tuluk jail in the Heart? Do Chosen Governors even have access to it?

I don't believe there are coded jails for each qynar, nor do Governors have access to the Tuluk jails.

Will the *Legion* NPC soldiers gank the noble, or the noble's First Senior Master Henchman, if either of them try to subdue their "criminal?"

Yup.

All of these incongruities take the feet out from under the system and are a large part of the reason why I don't think it works as envisioned.