With great power comes great assininity (in the rinth)

[IAmJacksOpinion]

I've been thinking some things about the rinth, and how it's run by the people in power.

First off, I realise the rinth isn't the place for whiners, and that's not what I'm trying to do. I realise the need to keep it lawless and dangerous. What good would it be otherwise?

My problem comes from the people in power. Don't get me wrong, some of them are great. They hire, start plots, and keep intrigue going. That's awesome. That's what the rinth needs. My issue is when people who lead clans, are unquestionably powerful, or have people of unquestionable power in their employ, and basically have little to fear from the common thug - but kill him anyway!

Two things come to mind:

One is spice dealing. What would a powerhouse organization of spice sales have to fear from my newbie PC selling a grain or two? I realise that it make sense to take out the competition, but if you run a spice house, or a huge organization, what is my client gonna do to dent you, really? A few PCs might switch over to buying from me, but you've still got the other 99% of the virtual rinth buying from you! If I start walking around with a body guard and amassing 1,000s of sid, then by all means take action, but why can't I play a lowly rinthi dealer?

Second is tribute. Why would a large organization care so much about one poor ass beggar who doesn't give you two coins out of the eight he made selling pants he found? I understand how tribute works. If I'm discovered to be a good thief, or a good fence, or mugger, or well-paid informant, then take some coins. But if I'm dressed in the rattiest of rags and selling corpses to eat, why do you care that you don't have a share of what little sid I have? Tribute is designed to make money from people who HAVE money. I'm not saying you can't beat up my little forager, or threaten him from time to time, but KILLING him because he doesn't have enough coin to pay you AND feed himself....

I know that everything I'm protesting does make sense, but my point of vew is this: what fun is the rinth if you can't try and hash out a concept without paying out the ass to all the existing powerhouses, or joining them? There's always another small-time thug trying to take what I have, why do I have to worry about someone who should have something better to do with his time killing me over the smallest of things? Their power comes from controlling a majority. My PC is not a majority. The rinth is far more fun without these so called "leaders" around. When you give one PC too much power in such an unchecked environment, they almost always behave the same way with it - join me, pay me, or die. It doesn't make any sense IG, and it sure as hell doesn't make any sense OOC.

This isn't a post to point fingures, or complain about the current leaders. It's just to say - the rinth is fun because it's lawless and free. Let me have some damned freedom! Just a little. Please?

Does anyone see where I'm coming from on this, or should I just hike my skirt up?

[Dusky]

As a lover of Kurac and a spicy player, I have to agree with you completely.  There should be plenty of room for the little guy.  You aren't selling knots, thals or bricks, you should be fine.

And there should be plenty of competition at your level so that the dirt is fighting amongst themselves for the local corner - but Kurac (and other big organizations) wouldn't bother you.  Heck, they might even decide to supply you.

[spicemustflow]

Spot on, and not only for the rinth leaders. I wish to see Kurac in flames.

But as you said, rinth is not for whiners and seeing how the playerbase is very quick on the draw even in places where there's law around, just hide and sneak, and wait your turn. The leaders in rinth are just like n00bles and new templars only on war spice. I wonder, do you get to be the leader of the guild or a gang by your hard work, or by applying for the position?

[roughneck]

The generally see two things driving the decision making by leaders and powerful players in the 'rinth.  One is fear and the other is boredom.

Often times they just kill any kind of competitor or pc that doesn't work for or with them just to prevent having a character around that could perhaps be a danger in the future.  I had a an assassin once who was living providing for an orphanage he grew up in, after refusing work for one of they big dogs the henchman who offered me the job just came in and killed me while I was resting with poison and a couple rounds of combat.  The only reason I can see for something like this is OOC being worried that I could live long enough to become a competitor - it wasn't for coins because they had plenty - wasn't for respect because I had been submitting so I think my assumption is correct.

It's sort of lame, but it's hard to expel the feeling of the 'rinth being a place of PC competition.  Which it usually ends up happening anyways but it's nice to let a little bit of a story develop along side it.  Leaders/skilled characters that aren't insecure in their place end up being the best ones to play with because they don't worry/interfere with other PC's shit until someone crosses them or there is a real interest or gain in going after them and they allow very cool stories develop that end up including many different players.

[Barzalene]

Some of this is going to depend on you and how you choose to sell spice and not pay tribute.
But, I disagree. The power of those groups is they rule with fear. And the reason people aren't selling bricks and thumbing their nose at tribute is because if you mess with them and they catch you, you don't get to mess with them again.
Now if you can avoid their notice, if you can, when caught, convince them you really didn't do it, and you didn't do it on purpose and you're very sorry, then they should give you an out on killing you, the same way a templar should. But only if you're contrite, pay up and amend your ways.

[Qzzrbl]

I wish people in 'Rinth would just -beat you up- instead of -killing- you.

And that people who got beat up would just give a counter-beating instead of killing.

There's just too much killing going on sometimes. >~<

[manonfire]

My problem with the 'rinth has always been this: If it lacks capable, intelligent leadership, it's little more than a mindless hack 'n slash area of the MUD.

[Qzzrbl]

More like sneak 'n stab.

You'll get backstabbed and poisoned if you openly display your combat prowess for being too strong and a potential threat.

[RogueGunslinger]

My problem with the 'rinth has always been this: If it lacks capable, intelligent leadership, it's little more than a mindless hack 'n slash area of the MUD.

Very, very true.

And guess what? Those leaders, because of their lack of planning, and intelligence, are -very- easy to overthrow. You just have to think things out a bit.

I had a character go in and stir up some shit rather easily and managed to gain a quick upper-hand over a few -way- more powerful PC's, which would have had him in a power position in no time, had something not of happened completely done by choice on my part.

And guess what. I wasn't a magicker, assassin, psionicist, nilazi, sorcerer, or mul either.

If leadership were more my thing, I'd gladly re-attempt to take shit over.


Now, some problems people tend to have about the 'rinth is that coded strength=power. Which in a lot of cases is true, but isn't so bad that it can't be worked around. I certainly agree that less unnecessary death would be a plus.


What it realy needs though? More diverse players and more veteran players.

Right now it just seems like the 'rinth is chock full of noobies and twinkers, with the occasional cool character.

[Malken]

My friend said that she tried the 'rinth and some NPC kept sapping her over and over again and she had to use a script to stand up and run away the second she'd wake up in the end, and that the same NPC kept going at her even if
she was totally naked except for her n00b boots.. Is that a normal 'rinth story?

[Delstro]

Not unless she had some really awesome noob boots.

[fourTwenty]

Sounds exactly like it should be.
There is no small time dealer, this is my hood. Your either dealing for me or your not dealing. One way or the other.
. <--- That's the period.

[Qzzrbl]

Not unless she had some really awesome noob boots.

She could've just wandered into the wrong area too.

Remember kids, the east side belongs to the elves.

[RogueGunslinger]

My friend said that she tried the 'rinth and some NPC kept sapping her over and over again and she had to use a script to stand up and run away the second she'd wake up in the end, and that the same NPC kept going at her even if
she was totally naked except for her n00b boots.. Is that a normal 'rinth story?

Don't know if it's normal, but it's certainly happened to me. It's infuriating. Seemingly for no reason at all too. This was after I had a couple 'rinth characters already, and knew how to avoid it.

So yeah... I think there are some serious code issues with the 'rinth, but nothing that can't be easily worked around.

[touringCompl3t3]

The original poster is spot-on.

The problem stems from the fact that big-shot players often crush the competition.  Quickly, and too efficiently.

Then they get bored and start going after the small fish, even though it's out of character for them to do so.  Pretty soon they run everyone out of town.  It becomes unrealistic, and unplayable. 

[Salt Merchant]

Sounds exactly like it should be.
There is no small time dealer, this is my hood. Your either dealing for me or your not dealing. One way or the other.
. <--- That's the period.

So does your character kill NPCs that won't deal too? Or is it that magical, special aura that surrounds PCs coming into play again?

[Malken]

The original poster is spot-on.

The problem stems from the fact that big-shot players often crush the competition.  Quickly, and too efficiently.

Then they get bored and start going after the small fish, even though it's out of character for them to do so.  Pretty soon they run everyone out of town.  It becomes unrealistic, and unplayable. 

That's a universal problem, though, just not the 'rinth.

Happens all the time, there's nothing that pisses me off more than someone that comes and PK a whole bunch of characters in a location that needed good players and was just starting to get interesting.

[Synthesis]

Lol.

A few weeks ago, I post something that gets a bunch of people excited about playing in the 'rinth.

A bunch of people roll up 'rinth characters.

Now everyone is complaining.

It all reminds me of a line from a skit on a Fugees album..."cats are always killin' other cats, when it's the -dogs- they should be worryin' about."

I just wish I was there to witness the mayhem.

[Kyviantre]

I think the 'join us', part of join/pay/die was made so people would have clannies to play with.  Least, that was always my excuse for that one 

[staggerlee]

It's probably not a particularly good idea to complain about existing player leadership on a public forum.
I'd send concerns about the roleplaying of people and organizations to the mud account instead.   

Also keep in mind that you don't know why these people have made the decisions they have, whether it's a personal choice, an organizational thing, a cultural thing, or whether maybe they just don't like your attitude.  The last option is very possible, judging from the way you've described the situation and people involved.
 
It's a harsh world, there are ways to survive and flourish in it, but spitting in the eye of the powers that be and striding out alone won't work in any part of the game world.

[Fathi]

I see where you're coming from, but I can't help but disagree, at least in regards to the area I have some experience with.

The reason Kurac has their virtual monopoly on spice in the Known World is because of tactics such as you described.

Sure, your small-time dealer isn't going to actually put a dent in Kurac's profits or contacts, but what about the hundreds of virtual small-time dealers throughout the world? Kurac has the monopoly on spice dealing because they've ruthlessly beat down the competition time and again, just like Kadius and Salarr have (although to a slightly lesser extent, as armour and fancy clothes are a little less specific a market than spice). If they give one or two small-time dealers a break, it opens a dangerous door.

When I played a recent stint in a Great Merchant House, we had a number of plotlines over the IC years that revolved around identifying competition and either employing it or squelching it, sometimes messily.

Because that's how monopolies work.

That being said, there are plenty of ways to do business in spice and fly under Kurac's radar if that's what your PC's goal is. It takes a little brainpower, but it's possible.

And you could always try talking to someone.

Traditionally, leader PCs are known to be a lot more lenient than you'd expect if you come to them openly with a deal on the table as opposed to just trying to deal behind their backs, and in my experience, this is no different in the 'Rinth than it is anywhere else.

[fourTwenty]

Sounds exactly like it should be.
There is no small time dealer, this is my hood. Your either dealing for me or your not dealing. One way or the other.
. <--- That's the period.

So does your character kill NPCs that won't deal too? Or is it that magical, special aura that surrounds PCs coming into play again?

My character would kill -anyone- he saw dealing on his turf. <--See, period again.

[mansa]

All the questions are from the choices the playerbase has done.  None of these problems are documented nor destined to be followed by each and every leader in the 'rinth.

/side point

[touringCompl3t3]

My character would kill -anyone- he saw dealing on his turf. <--See, period again.

Yeah, but your character doesn't have unlimited powers of enforcement.

Take me, for example.  While I was outside working on my car this evening, I killed --every-- mosquito that I noticed trying to bite me.

I must have killed about seven of the little bastards.  I still got bit about twelve times by sneaky little mosquitos that I didn't even see.  I can't catch all of them.

And your PC can't catch all of the competition, not in the vice trade.  If you want to play a big, bad gangster you need to make sure that there are several PC little gangsters running around.  If you don't have little mosquitoes biting you now and then, it's not believable. 

There's a difference between enforcing your turf and spam-enforcing your turf.  You simply can't catch everyone.  Can't.  (Period.)

Al Capone may have smuggled 90% of the liquor into Chicago, but he didn't smuggle all of it.  Victor Bout may have smuggled a tun of guns into Sierra Leonne, but he didn't smuggle all of them.  Mike Tyson may have robbed a lot of liquor stores in the Bronx, but he didn't commit every single robbery.

That's just not how it works.  Bill Gaites doesn't care if you pirate two copies of Windows XP.  Carl Icahn isn't going to send goons over to your house if you buy up five shares of yahoo and try to game his take-over trade.  House Salarr isn't going to kick in your door if you carve your Mom a spear for her birthday.  The Guild isn't going to cut off two of your fingers if you sell spice to five of your friends.  Vlad Putin isn't going to bring a lawsuit against you if you drink Latvian Vodka instead of Russian Vodka.  The Church of Scientology isn't going to burn your house down if you start your own irresponsible cult.

That's not how monopolies work. 




Edit: practically speaking, at some point you have to way the cost of enforcement against the penalty for ignoring partial infringements on your monopoly.  It's a business decision. 
Go to http://www.nissan.com
It isn't even --owned-- by Nissan.

Edit 2: That's why the militia keeps dropping your characters, dude.  You PK all of the other crim PCs, and so the militia PCs have no one to chase and get bored.  Boredom is a far bigger danger to your "turf" than a rival spice dealer, dude.

[fourTwenty]

Simple. I'm a bigger better gangster than any of the aforementioned.

And your exactly right, not gonna kill what I don't see happening.
So don't get seen and you wont have to make the choice: pay/join/die