Bribery

[Malken]

Is there any help files that relate to bribes in general in game?

Would there be a difference in the ways you'd want to bribe a northern Templar versus a southern Templar?

Would a northern Templar be 'insulted' if you gave him money instead of 'subtle' gifts? Could you just walk up to a southern Templar and give him coins in front of everyone and that'd be just fine?

Would it be bad roleplay for anyone to feel 'insulted' that you are attempting to bribe them? I don't mean bad roleplay that your bribe isn't working, but bad roleplay that they feel insulted that you are attempting
to sway their opinion of you or anything else with gifts and money?

[NoteworthyFellow]

Would there be a difference in the ways you'd want to bribe a northern Templar versus a southern Templar?

Would a northern Templar be 'insulted' if you gave him money instead of 'subtle' gifts? Could you just walk up to a southern Templar and give him coins in front of everyone and that'd be just fine?

I'd say yes, though it depends on the Templar.  Northern Templars, I imagine, like money just as much as southern ones do, and so I expect a good portion of them would accept it, though I think the method of "gifting" it should be considered.  But really, the same goes for most southern Templars I've encountered: it never hurts to keep bribery as under-the-table as possible, if you ask me.

Would it be bad roleplay for anyone to feel 'insulted' that you are attempting to bribe them? I don't mean bad roleplay that your bribe isn't working, but bad roleplay that they feel insulted that you are attempting
to sway their opinion of you or anything else with gifts and money?

I don't see why someone couldn't roleplay an honorable, "virtuous" Templar or soldier.  If it's in-character for your character to be insulted, then it's perfectly okay roleplay.  Keep in mind, however, that the majority of authority figures probably aren't like that, so it makes your character more of an "exception," and may put you into conflict with other authorities (which, y'know, is a perfectly fine thing).

[Janna]

Is there any help files that relate to bribes in general in game?

Nothing extensive that I know of. Like a set, "You should pay 50 coins to Lord Templar hard nose if you were caught defiling a kalan in a bar."

Would there be a difference in the ways you'd want to bribe a northern Templar versus a southern Templar?

Depends on the Templar and their spin on the role. Some Templars from the North may find it not very subtle or some such. Play it by ear.

Would a northern Templar be 'insulted' if you gave him money instead of 'subtle' gifts?

Maybe.

Could you just walk up to a southern Templar and give him coins in front of everyone and that'd be just fine?

Sure. Reactions may vary.

Would it be bad roleplay for anyone to feel 'insulted' that you are attempting to bribe them?

Not if they have some character that is "On the straight and narrow." Rare, but it does happen I imagine.

I don't mean bad roleplay that your bribe isn't working, but bad roleplay that they feel insulted that you are attempting
to sway their opinion of you or anything else with gifts and money?

Same as the last. Depends on the character they created. However, for the most part, corruption is the name of the game.

[FantasyWriter]

I have always wished there were a way to find PC templars, instead of having to wish up to have an NPC one animated.

If there is one, I have missed it.

[Vessol]

I have always wished there were a way to find PC templars, instead of having to wish up to have an NPC one animated.

If there is one, I have missed it.

Find out IG .

[ale six]

As long as your bribe isn't something as blatant as killing a guy in cold blood on the street, then tossing a pouch of coin to a templar and saying "Can I go now?", I think you could get away with bribing a Jihaen or Lirathan with money.

Southern templars might even let you off in the above scenario. On the other hand, if you offend a southern templar with your bribe you're more likely to get a smiting right there on the spot for it.

I don't think it's bad roleplay to be insulted that someone attempted to bribe you. Maybe your character has a reputation for being a paragon of uncorruptness, or maybe they're insulted that you think you can bribe your way out of a heinous crime.

[jstorrie]

I've found that the real wildcards are high-ranking templars. They might feel more pride in doing their job properly, or they might simply be so rich that your fifty coins mean nothing to them. They might have become bored with fucking over commoners, or they might have become increasingly irritable. They might have become so powerful that vaporizing you is like blinking, or they might be so conscious of their power that they don't want to waste any of it smiting a nobody. They might want to maintain their rep as a hardass, or they might feel they have even more to lose by making enemies.

The big templar/little templar divide is probably more significant than the north/south divide. Then again, the docs already tell you to be scared shitless around Red Robes and Jihaen Knight Templars, so this should not be surprising.

[Ourla]

I've always thought the best way to bribe a templar is to do it way before your PC even gets into trouble.  If your character might come into contact in a negative way with a templar in the future, sweeten 'em up now with favors, gifts, coin, etc.

[brytta.leofa]

Is "bribery is wrong" really anything but an odd and outlandish thought in Zalanthas?  Are we letting our first-world culture intrude?

I would suppose a more typical line of thought to be: "This bribe is not enough to compensate me and my superiors for the damage and inconvenience of the crime.  How could you think your offense so insignificant?"

[Tisiphone]

I've always thought the best way to bribe a templar is to do it way before your PC even gets into trouble.

[brytta.leofa]

I've found that the real wildcards are high-ranking templars. They might feel more pride in doing their job properly, or they might simply be so rich that your fifty coins mean nothing to them.

I suspect that post-offense bribery should always be combined with extreme contrition.  The Lord|Lady Templar is not a merchant and you aren't buying a commodity.

[Southie]

I suspect that post-offense bribery should always be combined with extreme contrition. The Lord|Lady Templar is not a merchant and you aren't buying a commodity.

QFT.

[jstorrie]

Well, you are buying a commodity–an official's time and attention–but you have to buy it with cash and an apology.

The old "I am really very sorry to have wasted your time! Please, take this money to make up for it, I won't step out of line again!" is a classic approach which will almost never fail.

[Fathi]

I've always thought the best way to bribe a templar is to do it way before your PC even gets into trouble.

This goes equally well for both cities.

Here are some tips I've got, as well:

1. In Tuluk, it's only natural to assume that bribing your way out of an unlicensed crime will be much more difficult than bribing your way to freedom if you've gone through the legal channels. A license WILL NOT absolve you of your crimes, but having no license is liable to severely hurt your case.

2. In Tuluk, I would treat bribes as less like an outright bribe and more like a gift. Again, ideally, such a gift should be given BEFORE you screw up and get caught.

3. In Allanak, there is no licensed theivery and assassination... but that doesn't mean templars don't sometimes need theives and assassins working for them. This is very risky depending on the templar in question, but a hefty coinpouch and repeatedly turning in any interesting contraband you steal could potentially go a long way toward keeping Allanak's Finest off your back--provided you steal from who the templar says you can.

4. In Allanak, consider that it's not always templars that need bribing. If your criminal activity is infringing upon the criminal activity of active criminal groups in the active criminal areas, expect a visit or perhaps pay them preemptively if you can make the right contacts.

5. SOLDIERS IN BOTH CITIES CAN BE BRIBED, TOO, AND THEY ALMOST UNIVERSALLY LIKE IT. If you're treating the  AoD sergeants to some occasional 'sid and paying off the Lt. well, you might not even have to meet a templar, as high-ranked PC soldiers have a certain amount of power to make petty crimes mean a lot less. I wouldn't expect a lieutenant to be able to get you out of murdering someone in either city, but often times, reports of your crimes are filtered through these sergeants first. They have the power to just not pass that information further up the food chain, which makes things much easier for you.

[Marauder Moe]

The problem with preemptive bribing, though, is that you don't always know which templar/soldier is going to be the one to catch you.  Most likely, Lord Templar Hardnose isn't going to give a shit about how you give Lord Templar Fluffypants a bottle of Oash '23 every month.  He only cares about what you can do for him.

[Vessol]

The problem with preemptive bribing, though, is that you don't always know which templar/soldier is going to be the one to catch you.  Most likely, Lord Templar Hardnose isn't going to give a shit about how you give Lord Templar Fluffypants a bottle of Oash '23 every month.  He only cares about what you can do for him.

That's why you have to have a deep pocket to bribe them all .

[Zoan]

I wholly approve of bribing soldiers. O_O

[brytta.leofa]

I wholly approve of bribing soldiers. O_O

The grizzled soldier of Tektolnes says, squinting at you, in sirihish,
"Yeh, pay's only two small a month for Privates.  'Course, a good soldier'll make more."

[Zoan]

In theory, it's two small a month for Privates. BUT, I'm not gonna say more as it's too Keep It IC to mention anything more. ^_^;;

[Marauder Moe]

The problem with preemptive bribing, though, is that you don't always know which templar/soldier is going to be the one to catch you.  Most likely, Lord Templar Hardnose isn't going to give a shit about how you give Lord Templar Fluffypants a bottle of Oash '23 every month.  He only cares about what you can do for him.

That's why you have to have a deep pocket to bribe them all .

And by "all" I assume you mean the two or three max active PC templars? 

[spawnloser]

Yeah, I've tried bribing Templars.  Why is it that they've all rejected my bribes?  This is on five different occasions.  Was it because I offered too little?  Seriously, 100 'sid is a fortune to some people and should be enough to get out of a simple failed pick pocket attempt.  One time I know it was because I offered too little and it was 500 'sid.  That was RIDICULOUS.  I think the players of PC Templars let too many things go too their head and fail on many occasions to remember the value of money in game.

[ale six]

Yeah, I've tried bribing Templars.  Why is it that they've all rejected my bribes?  This is on five different occasions.  Was it because I offered too little?  Seriously, 100 'sid is a fortune to some people and should be enough to get out of a simple failed pick pocket attempt.  One time I know it was because I offered too little and it was 500 'sid.  That was RIDICULOUS.  I think the players of PC Templars let too many things go too their head and fail on many occasions to remember the value of money in game.

I suspect that post-offense bribery should always be combined with extreme contrition.

Spawnloser, I mean this in the nicest way possible, but based on your GDB personality, I have a hard time seeing you as contrite.

Also, 100 sid isn't really a 'fortune' to anyone except maybe a rinther. I could see it being enough to get you out of a failed pickpocket attempt if the attempt was on an absolute nobody and you didn't annoy the templar at all. If you try and pick the pocket of Lord Fale's First LoveWhatsit, I don't think 100 sid is gonna get you far. 500 should, for thieving, but again... who were you trying to rob, and what was your attitude like when you got caught?

[Malken]

Yeah, I've tried bribing Templars.  Why is it that they've all rejected my bribes?  This is on five different occasions.  Was it because I offered too little?  Seriously, 100 'sid is a fortune to some people and should be enough to get out of a simple failed pick pocket attempt.  One time I know it was because I offered too little and it was 500 'sid.  That was RIDICULOUS.  I think the players of PC Templars let too many things go too their head and fail on many occasions to remember the value of money in game.

When a Templar fines you 150 'sid because you left your mount in a 'crowded' street, I can see how your mere little 100 'sid don't count for much, yah

Nowadays I feel really cheap if any of my gifts to a Templar is less than a large in value.

[Sokotra]

This is a case where I think the RP of how the game world is SUPPOSED to work should influence the RP of how it actually works.  Yes, people can easily make thousands and thousands of 'sid in various ways but 100 should be considered enough for a petty crime.  500 is more than enough for a petty crime and should probably be enough for a lot of stuff much more serious.  If nothing else, a bribe of 100 to 300 coins should cause regular soldiers and stuff to turn their heads and at least greatly influence the upper authorities like Templars to have a much less homicidal view on the situation.

In fact, they should take the coins and be off... looking forward to the next time they catch you breaking a law so they can make another quick couple hundred 'sid.

[ale six]

Be the change you want to see! Lobby the Allanaki Senate to pass a resolution setting maximum fines for each type of crime.

[Sokotra]

Be the change you want to see! Lobby the Allanaki Senate to pass a resolution setting maximum fines for each type of crime.

Now that's just silly.

[ale six]

... and so is complaining on the GDB about templars being mean.

[Mood]

... and so is complaining on the GDB about templars being mean.

Sky five.

[Malken]

... and so is complaining on the GDB about templars being mean.

But it feels so good!

Don't you like feeling good? 

[Sokotra]

... and so is complaining on the GDB about templars being mean.

I wasn't complaining, I don't know about the other person... but I was just pointing out a certain inconsistency with how things work and how they are supposed to work.  *shrug* 

[Tisiphone]

Thing is, petty crime should never GET to a templar. A small would be plenty enough for the soldier turning you in, but if you've caught a templar's attention for picking pockets, you should expect him to be annoyed.

Now, I understand NPC soldiers don't really give you that choice, so there'd be some playability leeway, but I really think one of the best solutions aside from an overhaul of the crim-code system (derail alert!) would be to give soldiers access to the prisons.

[brytta.leofa]

Now, I understand NPC soldiers don't really give you that choice, so there'd be some playability leeway, but I really think one of the best solutions aside from an overhaul of the crim-code system (derail alert!) would be to give soldiers access to the prisons.

This does seem to happen, but not at the Private level.

[Yam]

Bribable NPCs ala Elder Scrolls.

[Vessol]

Bribable NPCs ala Elder Scrolls.

Only if I can have four choices of things to say to them to either piss them or make them love me.

[Yam]

Bribable NPCs ala Elder Scrolls.

Only if I can have four choices of things to say to them to either piss them or make them love me.

?

[Vessol]

Bribable NPCs ala Elder Scrolls.

Only if I can have four choices of things to say to them to either piss them or make them love me.

?

In the game you can bribe or use persuasion, I'm too lazy to go look for a screenshot. And I was being sarcastic as well.

[a strange shadow]

The value of money does seem to be suffering from inflation... or at least, the documented value doesn't line up well with what's viable and practical when dealing with in-game politics.

[Malken]

The value of money does seem to be suffering from inflation... or at least, the documented value doesn't line up well with what's viable and practical when dealing with in-game politics.

Some people, like spawnloser, plays like they always did, and 'per the docs', in a way, which is all good, but many play like they realize that people now are much more aware how to make quick money, and that those players have been
telling their friends who have been telling their friends who have been telling their friends for the last 10 years.

So it's hard to know if you'll bump into an ol' school Templar who thinks that your 100 sid bribe is all that and a new school Templar who's been playing a dwarf mining obsidian for his last six characters that will laugh and toss your 500 sid in your face.

Wondering if you're facing an ol' school Templar or a new school Templar is a mini-game all in itself!

[BlackMagic0]

The value of money does seem to be suffering from inflation... or at least, the documented value doesn't line up well with what's viable and practical when dealing with in-game politics.

Some people, like spawnloser, plays like they always did, and 'per the docs', in a way, which is all good, but many play like they realize that people now are much more aware how to make quick money, and that those players have been
telling their friends who have been telling their friends who have been telling their friends for the last 10 years.

So it's hard to know if you'll bump into an ol' school Templar who thinks that your 100 sid bribe is all that and a new school Templar who's been playing a dwarf mining obsidian for his last six characters that will laugh and toss your 500 sid in your face.

Wondering if you're facing an ol' school Templar or a new school Templar is a mini-game all in itself!

Problem is, Not -everyone- knows these uber sekrits to making the 'sid you want constantly. And some people like to keep with the poor side of the commoners life, it makes role playing funnier for some, and not have thousands of 'sid in their back pocket.  Just a random cookie-of-thought for you to nibble. And milk.

[Malken]

The value of money does seem to be suffering from inflation... or at least, the documented value doesn't line up well with what's viable and practical when dealing with in-game politics.

Some people, like spawnloser, plays like they always did, and 'per the docs', in a way, which is all good, but many play like they realize that people now are much more aware how to make quick money, and that those players have been
telling their friends who have been telling their friends who have been telling their friends for the last 10 years.

So it's hard to know if you'll bump into an ol' school Templar who thinks that your 100 sid bribe is all that and a new school Templar who's been playing a dwarf mining obsidian for his last six characters that will laugh and toss your 500 sid in your face.

Wondering if you're facing an ol' school Templar or a new school Templar is a mini-game all in itself!

Problem is, Not -everyone- knows these uber sekrits to making the 'sid you want constantly. And some people like to keep with the poor side of the commoners life, it makes role playing funnier for some, and not have thousands of 'sid in their back pocket.  Just a random cookie-of-thought for you to nibble. And milk.

Well, I agree, and I'm quite happy to still have people who enjoys being poor and 'rinthis. I was just saying that it's hard to come to a compromise when someone makes a fortune a day and the other is happy with a chunk of rat meat and grey water a day.

When the two clashes, it's sad that the fortune guy often wins it out.

[staggerlee]

I've never had a problem dropping bribes in game that were under a hundred sid.  It's easy money for the person receiving the bribe, especially if you're respectful and they don't think they'll be having any trouble from you.  I tend to take the approach of bribing pre-emptively or after the fact to smooth things over in the future though, if you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar it's going to be a hard sell.  Especially since once someone does have you under their power they can just take the sid from you, at which point it's much too late for bribes.  Also remember that if you've endeared yourself to a clan, they might be paying a few sid here and there to keep other organizations off your back.

[Fathi]

One reason a templar might throw a 100 'sid bribe back in your face is if you LOOK like you have access to a whole lot more. It might not be that a templar wants more than 100 coins, but that they want a bribe proportional to your character's income and social stature.

If you're wearing a full suit of Kuraci desert gear, have top of the line weapons from Salarr that don't spawn in normal stores, carrying a good bow with a full quiver of arrows, and have a nice mount on top of it all... and then you try to bribe my templar with 100 'sid, there's a good chance I'd toss it back in your face, too.

Not because I'm choosing OOCly to ignore the docs, but because my character has noticed that your character is in possession of several thousand coins' worth of items, so a 100 coin bribe wouldn't be seen as a very significant gesture. If you're trying to make an impression on my templar to ignore your crimes and they get the impression you're tossing them pocket change, they might get a little offended.

Sure, you may have saved up for years for that Kurac stuff, those may be your only weapons, that may be your only inix... but regardless, it looks like you've got access to far more than 100 coins.

[Tisiphone]

Tangential, generating from Fathi's point, is that it might work better to promise to get something that can't be taken from you while you're in custody - whether that be quite a bit more coin, performing some task you're uniquely suited for, spying, etc...not only does that, upon acceptance, necessitate your freedom, but it also spawns more interaction, conflict, and plots.

[Bebop]

I would say use your own discretion.

Bribery requires eloquence, tact and sometimes subtly - oh and of course money.  This is something that varies with each circumstances.  I will say that Ourla is offering some damned sound advice.  Also, I would say be mindful of the amount for various reasons.  To small and the "gift" may become an insult, to "much" and some eyebrows might be raised or more might be expected from you in the future.  However, if you are trying to give the impression you are wealthy and wish to be treated this way, a large, large sum is the only way to go.  But like I said, each circumstance varies.  I don't think this is something the docs can really cover appropriately as it will vary so much on individual and circumstance.

[Zoan]

I reckon less could be taken by soldiers if EVERYONE wasn't working for/protected by Lord Hardnose and went and whined to said noble if/when the big bad militiaman shook them down for coin. The only marks a soldier has is the random newbie grebber who just happens to not be working for anyone at the time.

[Tisiphone]

I reckon less could be taken by soldiers if EVERYONE wasn't working for/protected by Lord Hardnose and went and whined to said noble if/when the big bad militiaman shook them down for coin. The only marks a soldier has is the random newbie grebber who just happens to not be working for anyone at the time.

This can actually make it fun when you're the favourite Sergeant of Lord Templar Hardnose, and Lord Hardnose tries to get into a snit with him.

However, I see your point. People just need to be made to understand that being a noble's aide doesn't mean protection from the soldiers. It should mean that you have enough money/influence to bribe said soldiers beforehand.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Err, doesn't it, though, if said Hardnose is really a hardnose? Being a servant of certian Nobles should really make things safer for you, I would think. At the very least, smaller bribes required or something. Because if that Noble can hang you up by your toes, you probably should leave her and his toes alone, I'd think. Being a soldier doesn't make you immune either.

[Zoan]

Not saying soldiers should be allowed to abuse noble servants. But 80% of people in a city serve nobles either directly, or indirectly and can still kick up a fuss to their benefactor if they get bullied about by the local authorities.

[number13]

It should mean that you have enough money/influence to bribe said soldiers beforehand.

Pffft. Only grebbers, rinthi scavengers, and independent merchants have that kind of money.

To make the point crystal clear: My rinthi scum/grebber characters could easily bribe templars/soldiers/ganglords.  A few of those characters did so with some regularity.  My employed characters generally do not enjoy the luxury of being able to bribe with more than a few drinks -- and then only via forgoing other reasonable purchases.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

People who serve nobles indirectly should not be treated as noble servants. Just because they do favors now and then for that noble does not mean that that noble is even aware of their existance for more than a moment a day. And obviously, if they are serving indirectly, they are not valuable enough to employ, too valuable to employ, or too embarrassing to employ. After you find out which, put a boot right up their asses if you like, as long as you can live with what might happen based on their status.