The world ain't that harsh...

[Galdun]

The world just isn't that harsh.  There is hardly any hatred, bigotry, disgust for anything and all the people I've played around recently all seem to be perfect examples law abiding, friendly citizens.  The outside environment isn't even as frightening as its made out to be.  Does this strike anyone as a problem considering the game world is described as harsh and un merciful?  Hmmm.  Maybe it's just Tuluk.

[Marauder Moe]

Probably just Tuluk.  You Northerners are all soft!  

Yes, just skim the forums and you'll see that said over and over.
It is very much just Tuluk.

Tuluk has been built into the 'fun' place to play. The environment isnt desert-ish, there is basically free food, and if even not free its cheap. There are weak creatures, and lotsa helpful people.

Its even okay to play a helpful person in the north. In the south its almost expected that people be cruel because of where they live.

If I were living in a small piss-poor, smelly neighborhood nearly starving to death every night in a blistering hot desert Id be upset and mean too.

If I was living in a cool, forest-like city with lotsa food and life growing around me, as well as just a generally happier peacefuller atmosphere I might be a bit nicer.

There is an underside to Tuluk but its alot less apparent then the mean hateful South, and probably takes alot more to get into.

Hope that helps.

[Angela Christine]

There is also a problem in that because we know this is a game there is usually just three settings for prejudice:

1) Bury your feelings, be outwordly friendly while inwardly seething.  The problem with this is that if everyone does it it looks like there is no ill feeling anywhere.

2) Ignore the object of your hatred, just pretend you don't notice them.  This is the usual setting for dealing with magickers in Allanak, you might snort or wrinkle your nose in digust but basically you don't interact with them at all.

3) Attempt to murder the subject of your hatred in cold blood.  I think this happens more often than is plausible, most real life biggots do not become serial killers.

Talking trash or giving a non-lethal beating to those damned elves/halfbreeds/southerners/magickers/etc. would be the most common response, but it rarely happens in the game.  No one bothers with non-lethal beatings, once you are winning the fight you go ahead and kill them so you can loot the corpse, woo!  In real life killing a person is a big deal, even if it is an ugly or unsavory person.  Police officers are trained to use weapons and expect that they may have to use them, but if they do shoot a criminal in the line of duty they have to get counseling because even killing a bad guy that you are supposed to kill has emotional repercussions.  But PKing in game has no consequences, it's a thrill for some players and there are very few characters that admit to having a problem with it.  Since people killing is allowed (assuming you have the flimsiest of IC justifications) most people are reluctant to commit themselves even to name calling and trash talking, because there is a good chance your target will respond by trying to kill you.  The only accepted way to "teach someone a lesson" is to try to kill them.  

You resent that southerners repressed your people for 40 years?  The obvious response is to try to kill any southerner you find alone in the woods, even ones too young to have been alive during the occupation and ones too poor to have had anything to do with it.  Yee haw.  You are a human that dislikes elves, or an elf that dislikes humans, so you should attempt to kill any that you come accross outside the cities.   It is insane.  The culture of death makes mild to moderate prejudice less common than it should be, because you don't want to risk agrovating someone who is probably willing and able to kill you on any pretext.  

AC

[halfbreed]

This idea keeps cropping up over and over, and once again... I have to say if things aren't harsh enough for you, it's YOUR fault and nobody elses.  It is PLENTY harsh out there.  I repeat, PLENTY!

I have tried to get no fewer than 5 people to play this game within the last month, and 4 of them have essentially given up because they find the game too difficult, even with me giving them all the tips I can for survival.  Now being something of a longer-time veteran (at least from the distant past) I have a fairly easy time... but that's because I've paid my dues.

Also, I've been in life-threatening situations dozens of times since I started playing the game again a couple of months ago.  There is an amazing amount of danger near Tuluk, if you just go looking for it...  so I do, on occasion, get pretty tired of the "Northlands is Too Soft" mantra... since all it will do is make Tuluk like another 'nak... where your best choice in life is to never leave the gates at all, essentially cutting off that avenue of RP for people.

Heaven forbid you can actually live off the land.

Get out there and make trouble if you have trouble with the world.  I know I do.

Heh.

Also, I've been in life-threatening situations dozens of times since I started playing the game again a couple of months ago. There is an amazing amount of danger near Tuluk

Most new people to Arm consider the fact that they need to eat harsh.
And that they dont have 4000 HP and cant kill every soldier that walks by for their awesome l00t.

The game is not harsh up north if you act realistically. Get a job, do your job, have fun on your time off, etc. But most people dont want to play the game like they do their life, which brings in the unreal and harsh elements. I.e. hunting in the highly-underplayed dangers of the forest where vicious tembo, gortok packs, and Halflings rule.

People think they can go outside unadequetely trained and fight off the hoardes of danger out there? that is their problem, its unrealistic to even think you could survive all these dangers undaunted, at least for extended periods of time.

Like a complaint I heard once "I died on my way to the halfling village. this game sucks" that is exaggerated, but someone did once ask me why it was so hard to travel through the forest to find Ptarken.

Anyways, I think you get the point.

[Dakkon Black]

About the facts of being a jerk IC, AC was really on the spot. Here after a night of drinking I'm very likely to beat the snot out of some guy and the cops wont notice or care other than to give me a ticket. giving someone a shot to the arm in arm is the same as cleaving thier head open. Perhaps we should import more brawlers code into the taverns as a way to give better consequences. Personally I hate picking a fight with someone that I oocly would because IC I'll be tossed in jail and or killed because I though his goatee looked funny. Just some ideas.

[Swordsman]

Tuluk might not seem harsh in the open, but neither do the mafia. If it's obvious, unsubtle harshness you want, head south and I doubt you'll be saying the game isn't harsh again. Hehe.

Swordsman

[halfbreed]

Jenred, I wasn't trying to single you out or anything... but rather all the "Northlands are Weak" posts I've seen.  I simply disagree.  And of course we all have known people who have come from other muds who come here and quit immediately because they have to find food and can't start out with full platemail armor while shooting fireballs out of their proverbial butts.  

However, the friends I am referring to aren't that sort.  They are all older players who come from an RP'ing background who simply find the complexity of the code, history, and sheer size of the cities overwhelming.  If you're a vet mudder or Arm-addict, this is easy to forget... but I remember when I was first plopped down in the middle of Tuluk, I couldn't remember where anything was, and I couldn't figure out how I could ever find out where the food shop was in relation to the nearest inn.  But I digress, that's not the issue... everyone goes through a newbie phase.

My point, though, is that if you play to make the game simple and livable and easy, yes... you can survive alright.  Get a crafting job with a House, never leave the city gates, of course you can survive indefinately.  And you should.  Even in a harsh world, life in the city isn't going to be extremely dangerous for the average person.

But if you do go outside the gates, you can either face grave dangers or little danger, depending on how you play your character.  If you have good knowledge of the dangers outside, you can often steer clear of danger, but your average tembo, raptor, or *insert-death-dealing-pack-of-critters-here* will make mince-meat out of your average-to-mid range players.  By life-threatening dangers I've faced, I'm talking about things that could easily, with a bad roll of the dice, kill a 20+ day warrior.  That kind of life-threatening.  Yes, in the Northlands.

Feel free to PM me if you don't believe me, but I don't want to post too much IC info here.  I just want to say that I don't believe hard-coded difficulties is the way to go for making the world more dangerous.  AC's post has some excellent points in it.  The best dangers by far are from other PCs.  That makes the game more fun, more interesting, whereas setting up a pack of 8 killer gith two spaces outside of the gates will not do either... and in fact have quite the opposite effect.

I personally would like to see more strife and outright bigotry... though Swordsman is right in that there is plenty of turmoil seething beneath the surface if you scratch deep enough.  But PC raider clans, or code-sanctioned PC-theives/assassins guilds seem to be the correct road to increasing trouble, not making the land unlivable through code-changes.

[Anonymous]

Tuluk might not seem harsh in the open, but neither do the mafia.

What!?!  I've never thought of a mafia as anything but harsh.

[naatok]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but Zalanthas IS harsh!
If you don't notice that you are one of a few PCs who lucked out with a cushy job with room and board inclusive.

People are dying all over the fucking place in Zalanthas.  Hell, I find bodies lying in the streets!  Not just our poor npc and virtual populations...I'm talking about PCs.

If you want mega-harsh, I suggest you try playing a desert loner, or a 'rinth rat trying to eke out a living in the crawl.

And please remember that danger comes in many forms and not all are overt.  And death has many faces, and some of those faces wear a smile and  compassionate demeanor.

The mangled-faced ruffian exclaims, in sirihish:
    "You just watch yourself!  We're wanted men.  -I- have the death sentence in two city-states!"
With a faint smile, the blue-eyed youth says, in sirihish:
    "I'll be careful."
Snarling, the mangled-faced ruffian exclaims, in sirihish:
    "You'll be -dead-!!"

-From the soon-to-be-released movie, 'Dune Wars', Episode IV, 'No Hope'

[Anonymous]

If you like it rough...
1.  Play a rinther.  Use your starting money for tattoos.  I'm confident that the Allanaki PCs will treat you right!
2.  Start in Luir's without joining House Kurac (Just to make life really hard).  From there explore the wonders of the Table-lands.
3.  Start in Red Storm, keep one eye on the huge beetles and the other on the Silt flyers as you make your forture in the spice trade.
4.  Start in Tuluk, play a lone hunter.  
After 60+ characters, I assure you the Harshness is here!

[Delirium]

There IS conflict in Tuluk, it's simply a lot more subtle than Allanak's conflict, and kept mostly behind closed doors. Which is the way politics are meant to be in Tuluk. They're more civilized up there, not like you barbaric Southerners! In Tuluk, any public tension would remain subtle and played out without most even realizing it unless they were of those Houses involved.

Like someone said, if you like straightforward political tension, 'Nak's the place for you. If you like subtle, behind-closed-doors treachery, Tuluk's the place for you. Or if you want harshness that has nothing to do with oppression and politics, step out the gates, in either Tuluk or Allanak, I guarantee you that you'll find something or someone willing to get harsh.

Though, I do have to back up ACs post, people seem like they're too afraid to even insult anyone for fear of death. That's silly. Maybe some insults could lead to death, but I figure most insult exchanging would result in heated words or maybe a brawl, etc. Life is too short and hard to throw it all away over a few words, unless it was a severe insult to your honor or what-have-you. Depends on the character, really, I guess.

And yeah, get some more bigotry going, people. I have noticed a tendancy for people to be overly pleasant even when it's not regarding politics at all. Like humans treating an uppity half-elf like a well respected member of society, or if you check your pockets and look worried when that longneck gets too close to you they ask what's wrong. ;p
Thing is, I think that much is mostly due to newcomers not knowing any better, so if we just set a good example it should pass.