Merchant Guild

[tarsier]

I was reading over some older posts about merchants and stuff,
and I unearthed some very important information:

Merchants are good crafters!


Now, I never would have know this!
The Merchant guild description doesn't even mention that they possess crafting skills!
I thought crafting was done with a subguild.
I know I'm new, so maybe it's just because of that,
but new players may be turned off by the Merchant class because they don't know it grants crafting skills.

Staff, might I suggest taht you edit the Merchant guild's description to include the fact that they are good at crafting?

[DANCE COMMANDER]

lol

[Lizzie]

I wondered the same thing actually. My first character, I picked merchant/hunter because I wanted her to be able to survive in or out of the city, and be able to pilot a wagon or ride...and I think it was knifemaking on the hunter list that I assumed was a good way to get a crafting skill (or fletchery? I can't remember..whatever the blurb says).

I had NO idea that merchants came with crafting skills.

[Rahnevyn]

>help guild merchant
Guild Merchant                                                  (Character)

   Merchants are the blood which binds the world together, the carriers of
desperately needed goods from one land to another. Usually descendants of
the old Dune Traders, merchants quickly learn the ways of the desert, the
most profitable trade routes, and possess a handy charm for making friends
of even the most bitter templar.
   Merchants possess the ability to ride animals and pilot the argosies
that cross the lands between villages and cities. They are also skilled at
assessing an object's value, getting excellent prices from all but the
stingiest traders, and noticing every detail around them. Furthermore, they
have great talent in many forms of crafting, from simple cups to intricate
forms of weaponry.
   While faced with a hard life, merchants are often the richest people in
any given city-state. The most sure way to find work as a merchant is to
travel widely, joining caravans at every opportunity. Whenever he/she can,
a merchant ought to find a village's or a city's traders and learn the
prices of things there. By compiling this knowledge (knowing true item costs
can be invaluable in doing this), the merchant can devise superior trade
routes and make a great deal of money.

See Also:
   guilds

?

[Lizzie]

Ah, that must've been added in the past couple years. I'm pretty sure that line wasn't there when I first looked over the website before I created my first character. I haven't looked since <g>


Good looking out!

[kreial]

While it does read that way IG from typing 'help merchant', the docs on the site lack it.
http://www.armageddon.org/general/guilds.html#merchant

I had no idea that merchants could craft, since I get pretty much all of my information from the web documentation.

[tarsier]

Yeah, it should say it in the online documentation,
since that's where players will look when creating their first characters.
(Since they have no character in the game to read IG helpfiles, obviously)

[Cutthroat]

Actually, it will be in the helpfiles available from the site.

http://www.armageddon.org/help/index_frames.html

But that's besides the point. A few of the other guild blurbs on the site are inconsistent with the help files, and it would be nice to see some recoordination there, to eliminate confusion.

[Rahnevyn]

Good catch guys. I'll post this on the IDB and let someone who handles the website take a look at it.

[Marauder Moe]

Update the other guilds too while you're at it!   

[Cutthroat]

Yeah, pickpocket is slightly different, and assassin too, off the top of my head. Can't remember if the others are the same or not.

[Lizzie]

And don't forget to add the spell lists for the elementalists!

And an armor stats page...I mean, the duskhorn hauberk really does look better with my green silk veil, but if the turquoise chitin-plated vest protects better, I could probably live with the clash in colors and just toss a purple cloak over the whole thing. I wouldn't know without that stats page!!!111

[AmandaGreathouse]

And don't forget to add the spell lists for the elementalists!

And an armor stats page...I mean, the duskhorn hauberk really does look better with my green silk veil, but if the turquoise chitin-plated vest protects better, I could probably live with the clash in colors and just toss a purple cloak over the whole thing. I wouldn't know without that stats page!!!111

Um??? Is it wrong that if I, through playing the character have to rely on a set of hardcoded skills I want to know what they are so I don't wind up with a character whose skills mismatch their life experiences, or even more simply, skills that I, as a player do not enjoy, due to inaccurate information to go of off?

[Lizzie]

Ahem..I was teasing. Making a funny. Having a little giggle - pretending I was a H&S'er... sorry!

[Marauder Moe]

I just want the ridiculous things like "In nearly all warriors there exists some notion of honor and fairness" and the employability of mages changed.

[Desertman]

I just want the ridiculous things like "In nearly all warriors there exists some notion of honor and fairness" and the employability of mages changed.

I love it when I get those warriors who are roleplaying the "honor" code. The new ones who havent figured out you just have to ignore some docs.

Man, I have a blast with those guys. Most of them think honor=gullability, which is a beautiful thing.

[Tisiphone]

I love it when I get those warriors who are roleplaying the "honor" code. The new ones who havent figured out you just have to ignore some docs.

Most warriors in Zalanthas -do- have a sense of honour, and you should follow the docs until an imm says they're out of date and changes them.

That said, "honour" among Zalanthas probably has more to do with pride than chivalry.

[Gimfalisette]

Guyz, "honor and fairness" are just a euphemisms for a warrior's full skill list. "Honor" = "is codedly uber with weapons and takes rightful pride in that," "fairness" = "doesn't fight dirty (backstab) like some nasty assassin type." Sure, there's one or two skills left out...maybe...but that's pretty much the extent of it!

[LoD]

The perception of honor in Zalanthas is very likely a combination of pride and self respect on the part of the formally trained warrior. 

For example, people might assume that a warrior wouldn't kill a child because the warrior is honorable and, therefore, knows that hurting a defenseless child is immoral and wrong.  I'd be more inclined to believe that the warrior won't kill the child because it is beneath them and what they've been trained to do.  If you had trained for years to become a fierce and terrible fighting machine, what would be your reaction if someone asked you to slaughter a 10 year old?

For a real world example, what if you are a professionally trained musician and, during an interview with some orchestra, were told that your primary duties would be to clean the instruments and sweep up the stage after each performance.  Would you consider the work beneath you?  Enough to refuse the job?  Would the mention of such work compared to your resume of professional training and work even be considered offensive to you?

The notion here is that anyone can kill a defenseless child.  Asking a professionally trained warrior to accomplish the same task might be considered beneath their ability.  That may not only be offensive to them, but potentially damaging to their reputation if they accept.

The same could be applied to notions of fairness.  They may not be excited to slaughter an unarmed opponent, or an obviously inferior target, and prefer instead to "even the odds" so that they can feel that the use of their trained hand was warranted.  Warriors may also demonstrate fair behavior because of mutual respect for someone who has obviously worked hard and achieved something through rigorous training. While that grudging respect may not stop them from stomping your face into the ground when the chips are on the table, it may translate into sets of behavior that could be perceived as being fair.

Lastly, warriors are ultimately trained to be death dealers.  Veterans may well depart some sense of respect for death and the dying to them, since there usually is a method and ritual that develops when your daily exercises involve the potential death of others.  There becomes almost a code that one develops, a set of rules they will follow because of the situations that are presented to them.  These personal codes and rules as they apply when dealing death could be interpreted as honor and fairness in the eyes of some.

-LoD

[Marauder Moe]

Yeah but newbies who read those help files aren't going to think about what "honor and fairness" really mean in terms of the world of Zalanthas as much as you would, LoD.  They're going to read it at face value, and/or in terms of the typical fantasy settings they are familiar with.

I strongly disagree that "honor and fairness" is the best and clearest way to describe the mentality of the typical Zalanthan warrior.

EDIT: actually I don't even believe that any of the guilds should impart a "mentality" of any sort upon the characters that choose them.

[brytta.leofa]

If you had trained for years to become a fierce and terrible fighting machine, what would be your reaction if someone asked you to slaughter a 10 year old?

Good post, LoD; but, with apologies to George R.R. Martin:

> ep child
You brandish the adorable, tousle-headed youngster.
> say (sighing) The things I do for love...
You say, sighing, in sirihish,
 "The things I do for love..."

[Sokotra]

I strongly disagree that "honor and fairness" is the best and clearest way to describe the mentality of the typical Zalanthan warrior.

True, but if they've read the rest of the docs then they should know what "honor and fairness" means in Zalanthas.  And as someone else said, it could just mean they don't have the "backstab" skill.    But you are right, it could probably be explained a little differently. 

[LoD]

Yeah but newbies who read those help files aren't going to think about what "honor and fairness" really mean in terms of the world of Zalanthas as much as you would, LoD.  They're going to read it at face value, and/or in terms of the typical fantasy settings they are familiar with.

I strongly disagree that "honor and fairness" is the best and clearest way to describe the mentality of the typical Zalanthan warrior.

EDIT: actually I don't even believe that any of the guilds should impart a "mentality" of any sort upon the characters that choose them.

I agree that the wording doesn't accurately convey to mentality of the Zalanthan warrior, but I suppose I haven't noticed enough chivalrous knight types running around to warrant the exposition that might be necessary to paint an accurate picture.  And perhaps there's enough variety between civilization centers and cultures to incorporate a few different interpretations of honor and fairness between them.

I'd argue for brevity in this case, but I'd be happy with any reasonable alternative.  Perhaps those words could be linked to another help file discussing notions of honor, fairness, nobility, and other qualities as they belong within the average Zalanthan's life.

-LoD

[Is Friday]

As a document that indoctrinates new players to the game, why should it be confusing or go against commonalities in thought of modern society?

[Desertman]

The beautiful thing is everyone can and usually does play the "exception" to the rule.

So while most warriors should have a sense of honor and fairness, most wont, which is good in this case, IMO.

[Sokotra]

The beautiful thing is everyone can and usually does play the "exception" to the rule.

So while most warriors should have a sense of honor and fairness, most wont, which is good in this case, IMO.

Heh, good point... amusing AND confusing.  Kinda like chocolate and peanut butter.

[Rahnevyn]

Guys, if you could keep this thread on topic (specifically, inconsistencies with docs on the website), I'd really appreciate it. It'll help staff trying to fix stuff.

Not saying that a discussion of honor vs. fairness isn't a great thing to have, but take it to Roleplaying Discussion, if you could.

[Marauder Moe]

Are inconsistencies between the documents and the actual game fair discussion?

[Rahnevyn]

Yes, just try and keep it narrowly focused on things staff would be able to target and fix.

[Desertman]

Yes, just try and keep it narrowly focused on things staff would be able to target and fix.

Something about this made me feel warm and fuzzy.

While we are at...

Has anyone else noticed you cant..."Forage Kindling"

You can forage stuff you can make into kindling...But then you apparently have to have a skill to make the kindling.

I guess...

The help files should be changed to reflect that you can forage "kindling-possible" items, because forage kindling, doesnt produce kindling.

This had me going in circles for about two RL hours, trying to figure out exactly what I was doing wrong.

[Only He Stands There]

Nearly all (if not all) the elementalist helpfiles need to be changed.

For example:

Guild Stone Elementalist                                         (Character)

   Stone elementalists are mages who have given their lives to the practice of
the elemental magicks of Ruk. They can eventually wield considerable power
over all things which are composed of matter, even as far as altering an
object's composition from one material to another.
   The spells which stone mages learn always revolve around the earth.
Ruk is the name of the elemental plane of earth, and is often mentioned in
the spells of stone mages.
   Stone mages may be employed as part of an army or scouting group, for
they are well able to weave protective magicks around their companions.
Stone mages can also be invaluable as travelling companions because of
their abilities to conjure mounts and construct shelters for rests during
long journeys. Stone mages are, however, the most druidic of all the
mages, and usually come to appreciate solitude and long quiet communes with
the earth.

The emboldened part seems to suggest, to the untrained player, that mages are highly employable and sought-after traveling companions, which we know just ain't the case. The italicized part seems to be a "this is how you should roleplay stone mages" statement.

Water mages are highly employable, amongst those who would hire any
mage to begin with. As companions on journeys they can be worth incredible
sums of money, and as permanent parts of clans or Houses worth even more.
Due to the widespread unease generally felt around any mage, however, only
large organizations generally will consider hiring a water elementalist.

This one seems much, much better, but it also suggests that larger organizations would hire mages - which they don't (above the table), unless those organizations are Oash, the Southern Templarate, or the CAM.

[Elgiva]

While we are at...

Has anyone else noticed you cant..."Forage Kindling"

I am sure I used "forage kindling" before... and not that long ago.

[Desertman]

While we are at...

Has anyone else noticed you cant..."Forage Kindling"

I am sure I used "forage kindling" before... and not that long ago.

I used it a RL hour ago.

It produces stuff, but it doesnt produce kindling.

[Jenred]

Nearly all (if not all) the elementalist helpfiles need to be changed.

For example:

Guild Stone Elementalist                                         (Character)

   Stone elementalists are mages who have given their lives to the practice of
the elemental magicks of Ruk. They can eventually wield considerable power
over all things which are composed of matter, even as far as altering an
object's composition from one material to another.
   The spells which stone mages learn always revolve around the earth.
Ruk is the name of the elemental plane of earth, and is often mentioned in
the spells of stone mages.
   Stone mages may be employed as part of an army or scouting group, for
they are well able to weave protective magicks around their companions.
Stone mages can also be invaluable as travelling companions because of
their abilities to conjure mounts and construct shelters for rests during
long journeys. Stone mages are, however, the most druidic of all the
mages, and usually come to appreciate solitude and long quiet communes with
the earth.

The emboldened part seems to suggest, to the untrained player, that mages are highly employable and sought-after traveling companions, which we know just ain't the case. The italicized part seems to be a "this is how you should roleplay stone mages" statement.

Water mages are highly employable, amongst those who would hire any
mage to begin with. As companions on journeys they can be worth incredible
sums of money, and as permanent parts of clans or Houses worth even more.
Due to the widespread unease generally felt around any mage, however, only
large organizations generally will consider hiring a water elementalist.

This one seems much, much better, but it also suggests that larger organizations would hire mages - which they don't (above the table), unless those organizations are Oash, the Southern Templarate, or the CAM.

Mages are highly employable, and decently sought-after. They are just also feared. They are also Karma required, so no new player should be confused when playing one, because they technically shouldn't be new when playing them.

And large organizations do hire mages. I've seen most southern organizations (Tor, Oash, Borsail, the Templarate, House Kadius, and Salarr) employ mages of certain elements, on many occasions. One doesn't need to prance around organizational HQs, wear cloaks and insignia to be considered being hired.

It might look quite dishonoring to know that Borsail is utilizing a plethora of Wind and Fire elementalists as Assassins to eliminate their rivals (this is purely hypothetical).