Why do we kill (ICly and OOCly)

[Dakurus]

So as not to hijack Gimf's other thread, I put this up.
I thought we might attempt to be open and accumulate a list of reasons why we as characters or the players behind those characters may choose to resolve a conflict in armageddon by killing. I think this is mostly relevant with regards to PC to PC confrontation, since those certainly have the best interaction and potential, but it can certainly apply to PC to NPC conflict as well. And although discussing other options for killing game and wild beasts would be interesting, let's keep it to sentient conflict that has potential.

I'm hoping that after coming up with a list of reasons for why we choose death and killing, we might look at some of them and discuss what we might do to encourage other options, and if it's even appropriate.

To start:

1. To avoid revenge - they'll eventually try and get you back, be it the insult, theft, disfigurement, or whatever - death means no revenge
2. To keep anonimity - if you don't kill them, they'll tell all their friends, the authorities, and their mother. This is bad for you.
3. To get ALL the loot - it's just easier to make sure you got the good stuff hidden in their clothes when you kill them.
4. It's quicker - Getting someone to submit, stop, strip, and so on with RP can take upwards of IC days as they stall.
5. It's a message - It don't get more direct then death, even if it's not very creative.

These are just a taste, I'm sure you all have many IC and OOC additions.

[Marauder Moe]

Avenging the death of a close friend or loved one.

To protect a secret.

Because they really really pissed you off.

[Dakurus]

Because my boss told me to.

Because the laws of my city or clan said to (deserter, criminal, etc)

Because it says I'm a homicidal maniac in my bio and staff approved it

[Gimfalisette]

Thinking back over the reasons why I've killed PCs:

-- Because I thought it was what you were supposed to do when you had a conflict with another PC. (I was a n00b...still sorry, Barzalene!) I would definitely take this back if I could.

-- To avoid IC consequences from an underling's mistake. Looking back on it, I should have chosen to exile this PC instead--because honestly, the IC consequences weren't going to be THAT bad, and it's highly probably I could have gotten the PC to cooperate with whatever my demands were--but I was a n00b to playing leadership and didn't know better. (Sorry, Ourla!)

-- To get rid of a troublesome underling that I had put hours and hours and hours of effort into attempting to bring into line. I'd do this one over, still...it was a completely valid IC reason and the only solution my PC saw.

-- When ordered to kill PCs. These were all quite valid, and usually reflected great stupidity on the part of the PCs being killed...running from the law repeatedly, mouthing off to the wrong people despite warnings, flaunting "unnatural" abilities, etc. Nothing I'd change here, sometimes people will force the hand of authority and bring about their own doom.

[Morrolan]

Many of my characters would agree with Jayne:

I'll kill a man in a fair fight, or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight... If he bothers me, or if there's a woman... Or if I'm gettin' paid. Mostly only when I'm gettin' paid.

Morrolan

[Cutthroat]

Self-defense: if someone else attacks you for a different reason.

Entertainment: you're stuck in the arena? Sucks for you.

To stop a message: if the person knows something you don't want someone else to know.

Territorial reasons: Someone stepped onto Tribe X's land, or the X side of the 'rinth, or whatever else there may be.

[Marauder Moe]

Morrolan wins the thread.

[Fathi]

The most common reason I've PKed is because my leader characters have had their hand forced into it.

Employee A breaks Rule A which states they should get a light punishment or be dealt with at the leader's discretion.

Employee A decides to play the, "SCREW YOU, MAN, I DON'T HAVE TO PUT UP WITH YOUR CRAP!" card and attacks my character/attacks my character's other employees/attacks another superior/tries to loot the compound/flees from capture and deserts.

[Gimfalisette]

-- Because it's OOCly fun.

-- Because it feels like winning. "HAHA, I KILLED YOU!" Also mostly an OOC feeling. Killing seems to provide this feeling of "win" better than other stimuli in the game.

I don't have these reasons myself; I used to think it would be fun to PK, before I did it. But I've found it mostly a drag for a lot of reasons.

[Rhyden]

I used to pkill for various reasons. Bounties, out of anger, posing a threat, etc.

I haven't killed a single player for about two years now and will only do so as a last resort.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Because it's in character to do so.

I often refrain from killing another character because the character I'm trying to portray is not a killer. Know what I mean?

[Sokotra]

All, or most, of those reasons I've seen are pretty good reasons... but yeah, most of the time there's other alternatives that are more fun.  If nothing else, you can leave mercy on and just RP like you thought they were dead.. even though OOCly you know that they are just stunned or unconscious.  I'd say 90% of the time, or at least more times or not, there are probably better alternatives that add more to the game, overall.

[Synthesis]

I think a lot of these replies are missing the point:  it's not "give me reasons why you killed," it's "give me reasons why you killed instead of doing X, Y, or Z."

I think Dakurus pretty much covered the legitimate reasons in his initial post.

And hey, look, Gimfalisette just covered the noob reasons.

I think that about covers it.

I've killed quite a few PCs over the years, and it's slowly become clear that this is quite simply the smart thing to do.  -Every- time I've failed to kill someone, I've lived to regret it (unless an unrelated doom met me somewhere along the way).  Whether the PC managed to escape or I had mercy on them, when people live, they invariably involve others in the hunt for you, and while that may create some interesting conflict, 9 times out of 10, my (IC and OOC) goal is NOT simply to create conflict.  Killing you was a means to an end, and very often such ends are not attainable when the entire world is looking for you.

If you want to get butt-hurt about it, that's fine...but Armageddon's motto is: "Murder. Corruption. Betrayal." not "Second chances.  Multi-line emotes.  Conflict resolution."

[Barzalene]

Because they keep making trouble.

[Delstro]

I kill because:
My hand was forced.
They were a magicker.


I make people kill me because:

It is easier to die and start over when the entire population of PCs in a given city ridicule you.

[a strange shadow]

If you want to get butt-hurt about it, that's fine...but Armageddon's motto is: "Murder. Corruption. Betrayal." not "Second chances.  Multi-line emotes.  Conflict resolution."

I gotta say, this one made me chuckle.

The above posts pretty much covered everything I could have contributed otherwise.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Also, just wanted to say... I'd rather die to another PC in a well-played scene than due to falling off a cliff, accidentally drinking cleaning solution, or getting eaten by scrab #138.
I'm the kind of guy that sends kudos for a good death. We all gotta go sometime, and it's kind of comforting to know that, at the very least, I provided somebody with a nice pair of boots.

[Sokotra]

My #1 reason for killing: Because I knew it was Synth's character. 

Just kidding... I hope nobody holds grudges like that, because I'd be getting killed a lot.  Wait, I already do get killed a lot.  You bastards.

[Fnord]

Your boots. Every time.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I kill because it is IC to do so, because of batrayal, and because it needs to happen. If you deserve it, you deserve it.

[Malken]

-- Because it feels like winning. "HAHA, I KILLED YOU!" Also mostly an OOC feeling. Killing seems to provide this feeling of "win" better than other stimuli in the game.

I win Armageddon with at least 90% of my characters and I only had to kill one PC in the last.. Five years or so maybe?

[X-D]

Reason #1 is by far, "my hand was forced" Normaly it is a PC i've left alive because the PC should know mine is FAR to powerful to bother (at least alone..hint hint) And the third of forth time around my PC has simply had enough. All the rest are as Fathi and others have said, I have a leader PC of some sort and the other pc throws the I'M NOT AFRAID OF YOU card.

The second reason is simply and sadly there are some things that the mercy command simply does not work on.

[Tisiphone]

Because killing is easier to think of and execute than other methods of 'resolution' or 'winning', e.g. disfigurement, exile, ostracization.

Because killing is kinder (sometimes!) than other possibilities, e.g. permacrimming someone and letting them rot.

Because killing is liberating. I come originally from a non-permadeath MUD. The ability to just permanently erase a problem is like a breath of fresh air.

(See above) Because sometimes conflict is seen as a problem instead of an opportunity.

Death is one of the few ways we have of actually inconveniencing the PLAYERS behind the characters. It causes players to lose something, and to need to put more work into the game. Death is the point where player and character interests most naturally coincide, and so the easiest method to use to modify player behaviour.

[jhunter]

When they leave me no other alternative.
To protect anonymity.
When they refuse to play along and act out a scene. (Basically when you try to rp out a scene such as a raid and they pgame in order to escape without anything up.) I've had raider pcs where all I wanted was their water and 'sids. I've had a few people play along and give some up and let them go on their way, some others...foolishly would prefer to die than to give up some coins or a skin of water.
If you escape me pgaming instead of acting out a scene, my pc will kill yours without hesitation the next time they see you. If you're lucky I'll give you a courtesy emote after dropping you with mercy on before finishing you.

[Yam]

Because I don't like the way they played their character.


^ I haven't actually done that one.


Yet.