What is your problem with magickers/magick?

[Mood]

My problem with magickers is that rangers always twink-kill me before I branch.

Sorry about that...Seeing them floating about in the distance makes my bow arm tingle.

That's not what I'm talking about.

"OH FUCK, THERE'S A GUY WITHOUT A MOUNT IN A ZONE WHERE STAMINA REGENS PRETTY QUICKLY AND PAINLESSLY!"

shout DIE 'GICKER;charge magicker

[Sokotra]

That may be true if the documentation was being upheld on both ends, but it isn't.  Magick is not rare and mysterious.  It's common and overbearing in today's scene.  Within the first 2 hours of my latest PC, mining quietly outside of Allanak, I saw no less than 7 magickers, 2 casting outside of the gates within sight and 1 of them chasing me, unprovoked, down the road with obvious magickal properties.  Running in fear, I went into the local tavern to relay my tale of fright and wonder.  What I was met with were cold shoulder shrugs, two more magickers in the bar trying to defend themselves and their good intentions, and a handful of mundanes growing angry with me because I was making their magicker friends upset.

Whether this happens frequently or not, I don't know.. but it probably would happen more if people would be treating magickers a little more like the cursed freaks that they should be treated as.  I understand that some people may have IC reasons for being friends with magickers or whatever... but I think you have to stop at a certain point (even if the magicker is your friend) and not be quite so loyal to the 'freak' and offensive toward others that point out certain things like the amount of magickers running about wildly.

I can understand the cold shoulder treatment, but I really have a problem with the "handful of mundanes growing angry" at the specified mundane PC because he was making their magicker friend upset.  That just doesn't seem right at all.  Being a friend of the magicker is one thing, but being so fiercely loyal that you are putting the value of the feelings of the magicker above that of a mundanes complaints just doesn't seem to be how things are supposed to be in Zalanthas.

[Dalmeth]

Solution? I've always thought more strain between opposite elements would be cool RP. Should Vivs and Krathis want to make sweet love? Maybe some documentation around which elements are sympathetic and antipathetic? As for allowing magickers to interact with the pbase more effectively so they don't seek each other out and form bands? You got me...

Actually, Vivs and Krathi would be some steamy action.  It's Krathi and Drovians that don't mix.  Actually, Vivs would mix well with just about everyone.  I don't think Elkran and Rukkian elementalists would get along very well, though.

I haven't gotten my point across very well, but we don't have to go by classical elemental relationships.

[Dalmeth]

I'm sure many of you won't want to take my word on this, but I believe the issue here is as much player perception as anything else.

The problem with problems of perception is that they are problems.  They're just near impossible to measure.  You may not see magickers acting irresponsibly, but what if that is because they've set an oppressive status quo?  What if other players are specifically moving in ways that don't irk their ire?  I believe this can occur completely contrary to any side's intentions, so it can be rather hard to point a finger of blame.

Still, your advice for players to do what they want to do is best.   At least then, if there is a problem, you'll have something to measure.

[Forest Junkie]

When it comes down to...ONE HIT KILL....It doesnt really matter if its a fireball, or having your brain melted.

James, you of all people know how powerful archery is. Does that mean we should limit the amount of rangers in game? C'mon now man, just because a guild has the potential to one-shot you doesn't mean there should be only two of them in game. Every guild has the potential to be deadly in their own way.

I guess you completely missed the part where the IC info is contained in your post? Maybe you should edit. I edited your quote in my post, for reference if you need it.

Ah, good point, that didn't even cross my mind when I was posting. I'll edit in a sec.

You continually smokescreen the issue of plots. The question at hand is about imm-backed super-plots that have the potential to involve many, many characters. You are attempting to divert attention from the problem by claiming that those who want MUNDANE plots of this kind somehow have the power to whip them up. Having played mundane leadership characters for a good long while now (with, in theory, imm backing), I have to say your perspective on the issue is naive.

I'm not attempting to divert attention from anything. I made a point and I will stick by it - if you want more mundane plots, create them. It's not that hard. I played a templar for a year, give or take, and yes, I did push my own plots, and even pushed forth construction on certain things, as well as worked with particular nobles and house agents alike to design and oversee construction of some really cool stuff. I didn't have to have staff backing for any of this until it was time for construction, and when I laid my plans before them, they usually were willing to work with me on a variety of issues. To call me naive and assume I've never been in a position similar to yours is, quite frankly, ignorant.

Neither is browbeating thread participants.  20% of the posts in the thread at the moment are by you, so maybe you should let the thread breathe a little before you attack anyone else or their ideas.  I'm sure you'd appreciate the same courtesy if you'd started a thread designed to solicit information from multiple sources rather than watching one person aggressively chase participants down and hijack the thread.

Browbeating? I politely asked her to remove some information. I hardly consider that browbeating, so lay off, eh? So what if 20% of the posts in this thread are by myself? No one stops you from marching into every magicker thread to spread the same argument you've been giving for the past five years, so why get on my ass? If I have something to add to the discussion, you can bet your bottom dollar I will. I have the right to, just as you friend.

...

I was agreeing with Desertman that certain classes should perhaps have more limited numbers, i.e. psionicists and sorcerors. Furthermore, I've also championed having karma regen slowly over the course of a few months, as have other players. My apologies if I made it unclear in my previous post. I wasn't simply disagreeing with you only to turn around and agree with someone else. Sorry about the mixup.

[Desertman]

Archery does get to be badass I agree.

But you and I both know the amount of time and devotion it takes to get to that point, as opposed to how long it takes to get good enough with a magicker to have ten times the devestation affect.

We can also both agree that the danger involved in growing archery (Having to go out and shoot stuff, not to mention attaining coins somehow to get the arrows to shoot) as a skill isnt comparable to being able to sit in a temple with NPC guards watching over you while you spam cast.

Its like comparing Mt. Everest to an ant hill in your yard in terms of overall power, time taken to achieve it, and danger involved in growing that skill.

[Yam]

Am I really the only one who complained about magickers not being powerful enough?

Heh heh heh.

[Desertman]

Am I really the only one who complained about magickers not being powerful enough?

Heh heh heh.

Oh no, in the "Not Limiting Magickers" thread I address this.

I am 100% for making magickers more powerful than they are now.

I would rather see three magickers who are fifty times more powerful than the current variety of magicker, than 50 of the current variety of magicker.

[Yam]

Oh. I thought that thread was about not limiting the number of play slots.


Don't I feel silly.

[Forest Junkie]

When it comes down to...ONE HIT KILL....It doesnt really matter if its a fireball, or having your brain melted.

James, you of all people know how powerful archery is. Does that mean we should limit the amount of rangers in game? C'mon now man, just because a guild has the potential to one-shot you doesn't mean there should be only two of them in game. Every guild has the potential to be deadly in their own way.

I guess you completely missed the part where the IC info is contained in your post? Maybe you should edit. I edited your quote in my post, for reference if you need it.

Ah, good point, that didn't even cross my mind when I was posting. I'll edit in a sec.

You continually smokescreen the issue of plots. The question at hand is about imm-backed super-plots that have the potential to involve many, many characters. You are attempting to divert attention from the problem by claiming that those who want MUNDANE plots of this kind somehow have the power to whip them up. Having played mundane leadership characters for a good long while now (with, in theory, imm backing), I have to say your perspective on the issue is naive.

I'm not attempting to divert attention from anything. I made a point and I will stick by it - if you want more mundane plots, create them. It's not that hard. I played a templar for a year, give or take, and yes, I did push my own plots, and even pushed forth construction on certain things, as well as worked with particular nobles and house agents alike to design and oversee construction of some really cool stuff. I didn't have to have staff backing for any of this until it was time for construction, and when I laid my plans before them, they usually were willing to work with me on a variety of issues. To call me naive and assume I've never been in a position similar to yours is, quite frankly, ignorant.

Neither is browbeating thread participants.  20% of the posts in the thread at the moment are by you, so maybe you should let the thread breathe a little before you attack anyone else or their ideas.  I'm sure you'd appreciate the same courtesy if you'd started a thread designed to solicit information from multiple sources rather than watching one person aggressively chase participants down and hijack the thread.

Browbeating? I politely asked her to remove some information. I hardly consider that browbeating, so lay off, eh? So what if 20% of the posts in this thread are by myself? No one stops you from marching into every magicker thread to spread the same argument you've been giving for the past five years, so why get on my ass? If I have something to add to the discussion, you can bet your bottom dollar I will. I have the right to, just as you friend.

...

I was agreeing with Desertman that certain classes should perhaps have more limited numbers, i.e. psionicists and sorcerors. Furthermore, I've also championed having karma regen slowly over the course of a few months, as have other players. My apologies if I made it unclear in my previous post. I wasn't simply disagreeing with you only to turn around agree with someone else. My fault.

*edit* Weird...I somehow copied my first post into this one. Whoops

[Archbaron]

I would rather see three magickers who are fifty times more powerful than the current variety of magicker, than 50 of the current variety of magicker.

Yes, please.

[Malken]

Those who say that magickers are not able to do anything else than magick-y stuff, is it because the subclasses are not good enough to allow you to have a side job or a side role?

I know that the last rogue magicker I played, I was able to fool everyone into thinking that I was a merchant trader for months, with subclass jewelry.. So much so that at some point
I was wishing that I had picked merchant guild instead of Rukkian because I was so good at it and I was at the point where I could just trick people into thinking that everything
I would buy from shops to sell to characters, it was all made by me. Kadius was always trying to hire me, and I know I could have had a whole career in Kadius if I had wanted to..

Maybe if the fighting and sneaky-type subclasses were made slightly more powerful until the end of Arm 1 and until we can play a half-mage, half-warrior?

Would that make both sides happier?

[Tuannon]

...
I -do- have a problem when the -players- of -mundanes- or leaders ramrod a spoon down your throat to like/accept mages because they're important to them/some plot/friends IC or whatever the case may be and toss the docs clean out the window.
...

Here, here.

However, you can always..

Talk to them, communicate the leader's needs.. Like them, no.. Plot to get them in trouble with some power bloc, yes..

[Desertman]

Oh. I thought that thread was about not limiting the number of play slots.


Don't I feel silly.

I think it was origionally supposed to be for that, but the posters of that thread just kind of went on a tangent. *shrugs*

[number13]

I would rather see three magickers who are fifty times more powerful than the current variety of magicker, than 50 of the current variety of magicker.

I vote for this. (yeah, i know i don't get a vote)

[Tallulah]

My problem is all the people who seem bent on going out and hunting mages, as if they aren't afraid in the slightest of what sort of horrors and atrocities those abominations can inflict on them with only a crooked glance.  My fear is that this happens because of OOC knowledge of the weak points in code that make magickers vulnerable.


Also, I hate the fact that magicker guilds don't ever get any perception skills like listen or scan unless you pick one of the subguilds that comes with them.  It's my feeling that all guilds should have those skills, just with different caps.  I really don't think that being a magicker (or a warrior!!) means that you should be perceptionally impaired.

[Sokotra]

Those who say that magickers are not able to do anything else than magick-y stuff, is it because the subclasses are not good enough to allow you to have a side job or a side role?
...
Maybe if the fighting and sneaky-type subclasses were made slightly more powerful until the end of Arm 1 and until we can play a half-mage, half-warrior?

Would that make both sides happier?

I wouldn't mind seeing something like this take place in Arm1 and/or Arm2.  There's easy ways (not that the code work is always easy) to balance things out without making them too powerful (or too weak, as the sub-guilds sorta seem currently).

[Desertman]

My problem is all the people who seem bent on going out and hunting mages, as if they aren't afraid in the slightest of what sort of horrors and atrocities those abominations can inflict on them with only a crooked glance.  My fear is that this happens because of OOC knowledge of the weak points in code that make magickers vulnerable.


Also, I hate the fact that magicker guilds don't ever get any perception skills like listen or scan unless you pick one of the subguilds that comes with them.  It's my feeling that all guilds should have those skills, just with different caps.  I really don't think that being a magicker (or a warrior!!) means that you should be perceptionally impaired.

And I dont think that being a ranger means you should never learn how to knock someone on thier ass by crashing into them (Bash) or lift your boot into thier crotch (Kick).

But, thats why we have guilds.

[spawnloser]

I have no problems with magick or magickers but with people that have a problem with magick/magickers without having good information.

[Winterless]

I have never played a magicker. I don't really have any problems with them or their numbers. What I do have a problem with is that there's so many freaking threads about it. It's really annoying/boring/tiring to come on the GDB every day and find a new thread about someone complaining about the number of magickers or other issues along the same lines. The issue has been run into the ground.

I mean, come on... why do we need five active threads about the number of magickers or problems with how they are "preferred" or how to limit them?

/end rant

[ale six]

My problem with magick is that we don't have any Heart Elementalists.

HOW THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO FORM CAPTAIN PLANET???

[Winterless]

My problem with magick is that we don't have any Heart Elementalists.

HOW THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO FORM CAPTAIN PLANET???

lol

[Barzalene]

On topic (What is your problem with magickers/magick?):

My problem with magickers is that much of magick is centered around combat.

Maybe most players dont want to play a magicker who can find someone's lost sword, assist with childbirth, put a curse on a thief, and make a lucky charm and a love potion...

...but I guess I do.

Morrolan

Ahh, I might want one to curse my enemy, but I don't want them around my unborn/newborn, touching my swords, or tricking me with some cursed charm that they tell me is lucky.

[Fathi]

Those who say that magickers are not able to do anything else than magick-y stuff, is it because the subclasses are not good enough to allow you to have a side job or a side role?

I know that the last rogue magicker I played, I was able to fool everyone into thinking that I was a merchant trader for months, with subclass jewelry.. So much so that at some point
I was wishing that I had picked merchant guild instead of Rukkian because I was so good at it and I was at the point where I could just trick people into thinking that everything
I would buy from shops to sell to characters, it was all made by me. Kadius was always trying to hire me, and I know I could have had a whole career in Kadius if I had wanted to..

Maybe if the fighting and sneaky-type subclasses were made slightly more powerful until the end of Arm 1 and until we can play a half-mage, half-warrior?

Would that make both sides happier?

This would make me very happy indeed.

When I made my first serious mage character, I did not intend to use her magick very much at all. The guild was chosen mostly because being an elementalist would mesh more with my character concept than being a fighter or merchant or what-have-you.

Perhaps stupidly, I picked a subguild that fit my character's background as opposed to a subguild that would give me more Things To Do. The subguild I chose -did- come with two crafting skills, but out of dozens of attempts, I managed to successfully craft one item with one skill and two items with the other.

I ended up playing with magick and casting spells much, much more than I wanted to because it was the only thing my character could do right. She wasted more money on buying materials to make her crafts (because of course, magickers don't come with some of the basic skills to help you get materials--apparently, being able to cast spells makes you incapable of snapping piles of bones into smaller peices) than on anything she ever owned... and just never got good at it.

Now, I understood the social limitations of the role when I first made the PC, but having never played a character that relied on subguild crafting before, I thought my PC would be able to entertain/employ herself a lot more with it. This wasn't the case.

With social stigma and mage-killing pushing magickers to the isolated ends of the map and most subguilds--I won't say all, but the majority of the ones I've encountered--failing to provide a character with anything they can use to pass the time, it's no surprise to me that a lot of magickers end up doing nothing but sitting around casting spells or end up being raiders or end up forming little mage groups that people on the GDB love to bitch about. There aren't exactly many other choices.

[Mood]

-Snip-

Ex-fucking-actly.