Fletchery, The Other Skill

[Desertman]

Anyone who has played a ranger for an extended period of time and has read the documentation can pretty much assume, you get fletchery eventually.

I dont think that is too IC, it says in the docs if you get good with your bow you learn how to make arrows.

Has anyone else noticed that by the time you branch fletchery, you are usually so succsessful, its kind of silly to make instead of buy your arrows?

The only thing fletchery is good for, by the time you actually branch it with a ranger, is sitting around and looking uber cool as you make your own arrows. Which I agree, is cool, but kind of silly when you put it into perspective.

Hunter subclass starts with fletchery, and I actually find it USEFUL. Because when you start out, you dont have the coins to go and buy arrows, you HAVE to make your own if you want to use your bow, or spend every sid you get spam hunting to fill your quiver.

Anyways, the point to this post is...Lets start rangers with fletchery, or atleast let them branch it MUCH earlier, so it will actually be useful, and not just a shiny perk to have.

[FuSoYa]

Not much to add but I agree with this.  It's not a huge skill but one that would be immensely useful to a starting ranger.

Brandon

[Arabian Nights]

Definitely. It makes sense that they'd be learning to construct their own arrows in the beginning rather than later on.

[Malken]

I still think that you should be able to craft arrows BY THE DOZEN, instead of one at a time.. It's such a pain to do.

craft log into a bundle of arrowshafts.

craft blocky piece of stone into a group of sharp <insert type of stone> arrowheads.

craft feather feather feather into a bundle of feathers.

craft bundle group bundle into a dozen of <type of arrow> arrows.

[Desertman]

Well, it does "make sense". A subclass hunter who will never have the potential with a bow that a ranger will starts out making his own arrows, but a ranger, the "Bow Class", has no clue how to make arrows until after he is a uber badass archer.

Mostly, its just silly from a playability standpoint.

By the time any ranger I play branches fletchery, its a waste of time to actually make arrows instead of buy them. Unless I am purposefully playing a poverty stricken ranger, which most pc's are not.

It adds nothing but a "cool" factor to a ranger to make your own arrows after you are already uber succsessful.

If you sat around making your arrows in the beginning because you were to poor afford someone else making them for you, that sounds realistic and harsh, not leet and uber.

The only reason I can see for having it the way it is now, is so merchants will be able to use thier own starting fletchery, but since starting rangers dont typically have the coins to buy arrows from the starting merchants anyways, you end up with the same cycle. The only rangers who can afford to buy arrows from the merchants are the ones that typically can already make thier own arrows, they just dont want to waste time doing it, now that its more time efficient to just buy them.

So, rangers really have no realistic reason for having fletchery so late in thier careers, except its "cool". I like cool, dont get me wrong. I like realistic and cool, more.

I would much rather see fletchery from the beginning, and something "cool" like featherworking to make custom uber ranger arrows later on.

Give us fletchery for realism and playability. Give us featherworking for "Coolness" instead. But thats an entirely different debate.

[Desertman]

I still think that you should be able to craft arrows BY THE DOZEN, instead of one at a time.. It's such a pain to do.

craft log into a bundle of arrowshafts.

craft blocky piece of stone into a group of sharp <insert type of stone> arrowheads.

craft feather feather feather into a bundle of feathers.

craft bundle group bundle into a dozen of <type of arrow> arrows.

Not what this thread is about, but I agree in general.

I dont want to see this early on obviously, but once it gets to the point that you can make 30 arrows in a row without failing, its just a pain in the butt to spend forever crafting them.

Of course, considering making arrows is already unrealistically fast, compared to how long it would take to make one IRL, I cant see voting for this change for any reason other than, I find fletching boring once I am already badass at it.

I dont think "I'm bored" with the way it is, is a good excuse to make the change. Realistically, its already superhuman fast.

[evil_erdlu]

When you master it, fletching arrows is... I believe... unbelieveably fast... *ducks and covers*..
.....
*slowly rises from the ground looking around for the possible late bashing* But about rangers, I agree.. They should have a bit of knack for it at the very start of their career. To tell the truth, I thought they already did.

[Desertman]

I agree, once you get good, fletchery is already unrealistically fast. I dont see a -need- for a change there.

Sadly, rangers dont get the ability to make arrows until after they dont -need- to make arrows anymore.

Maybe its intentionally that way...Maybe its supposed to just be a "cool" skill instead of a realistically useful skill. I would much rather have realistically useful though.

[flurry]

The only thing fletchery is good for, by the time you actually branch it with a ranger, is sitting around and looking uber cool as you make your own arrows. Which I agree, is cool, but kind of silly when you put it into perspective.

No, the other good thing it's for, which is really central to the idea of a ranger, is that it means you're more self-sufficient. You don't need to buy arrows off anyone. If you want to live your life away from the cities, you can.

Also, whenever I've had the fletchery skill, buying arrows feels like throwing away money that I'd rather use for other things.

It feels about right for me, when it comes for rangers, but I don't think we're supposed to discuss how soon things branch, so I'll leave it at that.

[Desertman]

The only thing fletchery is good for, by the time you actually branch it with a ranger, is sitting around and looking uber cool as you make your own arrows. Which I agree, is cool, but kind of silly when you put it into perspective.

No, the other good thing it's for, which is really central to the idea of a ranger, is that it means you're more self-sufficient. You don't need to buy arrows off anyone. If you want to live your life away from the cities, you can.

The vast majority of PC rangers dont actually live thier lives away from cities. Most of them still come back to buy arrows because its what they have gotten accustom to.

Also, whenever I've had the fletchery skill, buying arrows feels like throwing away money that I'd rather use for other things.

Whenever I've had the fletchery skill with a guild ranger taking the time to gather up materials to make my own arrows seemed like a huge waste because I could easily produce enough sid to buy twice as many arrows in the time it would take me to "make" them.

It feels about right for me, when it comes for rangers, but I don't think we're supposed to discuss how soon things branch, so I'll leave it at that.

To each his own.

[Rhyden]

With the running price on arrows, I can't help but agree with Desertman's idea.

[Desertman]

With the running price on arrows, I can't help but agree with Desertman's idea.

CANT HELP BUT!?!?!?!

As though it would be painful to agree with me!!!

I thought I knew you man, I thought I knew you!!!

I WILL NOT FORGIVE THIS DISHONOR YOU HAVE CAST DOWN UPON ME LIKE SO MANY ARROWS MY UBER RANGER DOESNT YET KNOW HOW TO MAKE WHILE HIS SUBCLASS HUNTER BUDDY PUMPS THEM OUT LIKE CRAZY FROM THE START!!!

[Malken]

What about being able to make simple flight arrows from branches and such?

If you can make a SET of many arrowshafts from one branch, why couldn't you make a bundle of flight arrows from the same branch?

For those who don't know, flight arrows are basically arrows without barbs.

[Rhyden]

Truthfully, I often can't help but agree with you, Desertman.

WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME!!!

[Desertman]

Truthfully, I often can't help but agree with you, Desertman.

WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME!!!

You, like your father, are now mine!!!

(Star Wars reference)

[Desertman]

What about being able to make simple flight arrows from branches and such?

If you can make a SET of many arrowshafts from one branch, why couldn't you make a bundle of flight arrows from the same branch?

For those who don't know, flight arrows are basically arrows without barbs.

Because you would still need to fletch them, which involves splitting a feather down its quill, a tedious process even with razor-edged metal tools, and then binding the fletching to the end of the shaft with binding of your choice...(sinew, cord, ect), again, not a fast process.

And I wouldnt want to see rangers group crafting "flight arrows" instead of "hunting arrows", just to spam up archery. On that note, I hate flight arrows, I never saw much reason for having them in game.

[musashi]

I think this would be nice as well.

If Rangers are supposed to be the "bow people" of the game, it would be nice to have them learn fletchery much earlier on.

The way it feels to me right now ... arrows are way too expensive to actually use them for hunting ever, for any reason, if you had to buy them. I mean, even downing something small, with a valuable hide ... you'll still go through more arrows than the hide was worth if you compare how much you can sell the hide for, vs. how much you spent buying the arrows that got used up killing the game.

So ... most newb rangers (and a lot of experienced ones for that matter) just run stuff down on foot or on a mount and stab it with a melee weapon of their choice, and don't even get into archery until much later in their careers when they have the luxery to do so.

To me, that makes me feel as though archery becomes more of a "special PvP skill", like backstab, instead of a skill used for hunting.

Or ... some might grab a slingshot and forage for rocks in hopes that they can boost their archery skill that way, but to me that always felt a little twinkish since I knew I was only using a slingshot because it would mean later on my ranger would be awesome with a bow ... and since those two weapons aren't really related in terms of technique, I felt bad using one in hopes of improving the accuracy with another later on.

[touringCompl3t3]

Agrees with original post.

[Winterless]

/agrees with both ideas

[Synthesis]

The other thing is:  you can make a -crapload- of money with fletchery, especially if you have it in combination with a certain other skill.  Given that all the components are readily available in places that even newb rangers can easily access, giving them an excessively simple way to make a small fortune would be a little unbalancing, unless you adjusted the sale value of arrows as well.

[musashi]

But yet hunters get it from the start right?

I'd like to see the overall value of arrows go down myself though, for the record.

[Lakota]

I like. Let it branch after some skill with archery is attained. i.e. lower the current % required to branch the skill.

[Desertman]

The other thing is:  you can make a -crapload- of money with fletchery, especially if you have it in combination with a certain other skill.  Given that all the components are readily available in places that even newb rangers can easily access, giving them an excessively simple way to make a small fortune would be a little unbalancing, unless you adjusted the sale value of arrows as well.

Sure, you can spam sell arrows from the beginning if you want, after spending a VERY long time getting good at fletchery, there are two subclasses that give you the ability to do this that I can think of. I dont see many people picking them to be uber arrow sellers of doom though. There are MUCH easier ways to farm sid than the tedious process of making arrows, if a person is so inclined to twink out the economy. I guess what I'm trying to say is, this risk already exists with starting PC's, so I dont see how giving this skill to rangers from the beginning would increase this risk anymore, since the risk is already there, and doesnt appear to be being abused.

On the note of making arrows "more affordable", I would like to see prices stay the same as they are, or even go up.

Fletchery is a very tedious process, when you go to sell an arrow with a merchant fletcher to an NPC, you dont make nearly enough coins to justify the amount of time you put into making the item. Not to mention the shard of stone you use for an arrowhead, can easily be made into <other item> from the beginning that can sell for three times as much as the arrow you are using it on. Plainly put, fletchery is not a coin farming venture by any means, it is a very tedious process in which its materials can easily be used to make more coins than the arrow you are making with them.

Give the same skill to a starting ranger though, and suddenly it becomes useful...Since taking the time to make arrows would be good for only one thing really, using your own arrows. Selling them to NPC's would be silly, since you NEED the arrows yourself anyways, you would basically be selling arrows, to buy arrows, and without the haggle skill, well, that would never work. Even with a badass haggle skill you would be hard pressed to pull that one off, and have to do some major world traveling to balance coins just to get one quiver of arrows out of it.

I am rambling...

Point in case: Fletchery doesnt really have the potential to be abused for "coins" purposes if given to starting rangers, atleast anymore than it already does with starting subclasses.

[Desertman]

I like. Let it branch after some skill with archery is attained. i.e. lower the current % required to branch the skill.

I would still prefer having it from the start, since you are going to be days into your character before you are good enough with fletchery to dependabley make arrows, fletchery is a hard skill to get good at.

But this would be better than the way it is now atleast.

[Synthesis]

Yes, you can start with fletchery and make money with it...but that's kind of what most of the subclasses are for, isn't it?  Picking hunter as a subclass involves a trade-off for all the other skills you could've possibly gotten with another subclass.

Furthermore, as (I think) I mentioned earlier, rangers have much better access to the raw materials required to churn out massive quantities of arrows.  You won't see a warrior/hunter, assassin/hunter, or burglar/hunter out there cornering the arrow market because rangers have the primary skills that make it possible.

[Desertman]

Yes, you can start with fletchery and make money with it...but that's kind of what most of the subclasses are for, isn't it?  Picking hunter as a subclass involves a trade-off for all the other skills you could've possibly gotten with another subclass.

Furthermore, as (I think) I mentioned earlier, rangers have much better access to the raw materials required to churn out massive quantities of arrows.  You won't see a warrior/hunter, assassin/hunter, or burglar/hunter out there cornering the arrow market because rangers have the primary skills that make it possible.

Having played two of the combinations you have listed, (not Burgular), and another not listed, I can vouche that materials are easily attainable, regardless of guild.

There is nothing to prevent fletchery from being abused as it is, its just not abused because its a waste of time to try and abuse it...it takes too long for most twinks to bother "arrow farming". Giving it to rangers isnt going to increase the potential for abuse any more than the potential already exists.

The fact that rangers would be making arrows to sell, instead of use, is silly...Unless they dont plan on using archery themselves, (which would then make them just another crafter, and the fact they are ranger would have nothing to do with the fact they make arrows) they would just be selling arrows, to get coins, to buy arrows. It would balance its self, instantly.