Facewrap description

[Greve]

.

[Seeker]

I'm pretty sure it's an established fact that on this mud, the majority of the playerbase will rid themselves of such burdens as logic and laws of physics in any situation where there is some sort of risk to their character.

This is quite the statement.  Would you please elaborate?  To whom is this an an established fact?  Do you mean that the vast majority of our players believe this fact to be established beyond doubt?  Do you mean that in the MUDding community at large, this opinion is held as well-established fact by outsiders evaluating this game and its users?

Pardon the derail.  I don't even intend to contest the truth of the above statement.  I just want to know to what group of people Greve's statement is an established fact.


Seeker

[musashi]

Guys.

Find out IC.

Yes ... lets find out IC about the code surrounding concealing facewraps and hoods ...

Code Select Expand

emote gives ~tisiphone ... a boot to the head.

[Tisiphone]

Some stuff

Do me the favour of assuming I have a reason to post what I do. Thanks.

[Armaddict]

While at the time mask items were removed, it was getting a little excessive, it's always been my opinion that removal of mask items was even more excessive.  Even if a considerable sized group gets their hands on it...usually...that...makes...sense.

What currently exists...does...not...make...sense.

While I know that some mask items still exist for some purposes, they are currently more rare and more valuable than metal.  For no reason whatsoever.

[Bogre]

Because masks look cool as shit.

I think they should be rare, because, well, everyone would be wearing one if they weren't.

Here is my idea for the hood/mask situations for arm.2: Let the desc be uncovered by the other characters watch skill. Items could be given different degrees of masking and bonuses. Hoods would give a very small chance of covering up the desc, so that occasionally it would be covered but mostly uncovered as it is now in Arm. Facewraps would give a better chance, but still not super good. Masks would give the best chance, of course.

[musashi]

Because masks look cool as shit.

I think they should be rare, because, well, everyone would be wearing one if they weren't.

Here is my idea for the hood/mask situations for arm.2: Let the desc be uncovered by the other characters watch skill. Items could be given different degrees of masking and bonuses. Hoods would give a very small chance of covering up the desc, so that occasionally it would be covered but mostly uncovered as it is now in Arm. Facewraps would give a better chance, but still not super good. Masks would give the best chance, of course.

I think that's a cool idea, moving in the right direction, but would facewraps really not be "super good" at concealing what someone looks like? I mean ...

[Qzzrbl]

No matter how much I look him over, I probably still wouldn't be able to pick him out in an unmasked lineup. And unless 'x-ray vision' branches from 'watch', I can't imagine how 'watch' could be used to uncover that man's facial description.

[staggerlee]

No matter how much I look him over, I probably still wouldn't be able to pick him out in an unmasked lineup.

On the other hand what the game doesn't take into account for us is all the little things that help us recognize people, consciously or unconsciously.   Things like odor, posture, body type, voice, how they walk, little twitches and quirks, really any number of things.   To some extent people can rp those things, but if you're going to argue on the basis of realism that masks should absolutely cover identity those need to be pointed out.  What if their main desc describes their entire body and they run around wearing a mask and a loincloth, I can no longer tell that they're fat, black, dreadlocked and smell like flowers because they have a face mask on?

Realism isn't a particularly valid argument for having masks that absolutely disguise identity.  It actually doesn't make any particular sense at all for masks to hide an entire main desc and sdesc.

Now, if we want to talk about playability and what kind of game play we're looking for in Armageddon, that's something else entirely.

[staggerlee]

To clarify my above post:

I don't feel that discussions of 'realism' benefit the game.  I think that what needs to be discussed is:

-How much should face masks conceal the identity of the wearer in Armageddon?
-What are the advantages of that to the game?
-What are the disadvantages?
-Will it suit the environment and atmosphere of the game world?
-Will I feel differently as raider? city based assassin? guard? victim?
-What are the limitations of the code?

I'd like to see a fairly dynamic system myself that allowed masks to mostly cover a person's identity, it would be really nice if viewers could still notice important traits that wouldn't be covered by the mask however.  Maybe with multiple pieces of gear you could achieve a more complete costume.  Perhaps a skill like peek or scan would help pick up certain subtler characteristics.

To some extent we trust each other to roleplay over the inadequacies of the code, but if this thread were moved to the reborn forum (and it likely should be) we could begin to consider how the code could be changed to resolve its current limitations.

On the other hand I'm pretty sure this has been gone over repeatedly before both in the context of the old and new MUD.

[musashi]

Well, I feel like the game already has coded ways to represent scars, tattoos and other identifying marks that aren't on the character's face ... also the assess command takes care of how tall the person is without needing to see their desc.

I would prefer it if a masked/facewraped person's mdesc were not included ... simply because, while the things above are identifyable, but still a bit vauge (so the raider might have the chance of getting away with it), a mdesc is completely unique ... so once a PC sees it, they will be able to identify that person with 100% accuracy from that moment forward, and I think that's icky.

Mind ... I'm not sure about hoods. I've seen lots of people wear hoods up ... it doesn't conceal their face at all, if anything it just conceals their hair, I dunno ... I think the shadowy hooded figure is a little silly.

Again, to go with pictures ...



I could recognize that guy again if I saw him.

Just one more pic ... the only hood I've ever seen that masked the way a person looked was this one:

[FuSoYa]

Hah... sorry... that last picture made me laugh.

Brandon

[jhunter]

I personally don't see any reason someone would be against it except to allow twinkery to get unrealistic (99.9% OOC) revenge on raiders or to keep raider's numbers down. I personally wish that that it was more often done without having your raider pc fucked in the ass dry for bullshit reasons. It only takes one cheesy fucktard to get your raider pc killed, even when you've taken all the realistic precautions possible. I -hate- having to kill my victims due to code limitations in order to give my raider pc even a snowball's chance in Zalanthas. I -hate- having my pc killed by raiders when I try to play along because they don't have much other choice in order to prevent twinkery against their pc, but I understand why it is done and I don't blame them one bit. I blame the code and the people who fight to keep that avenue of twinkery against them open.

[Is Friday]

I personally don't see any reason someone would be against it except to allow twinkery to get unrealistic (99.9% OOC) revenge on raiders or to keep raider's numbers down. I personally wish that that it was more often done without having your raider pc fucked in the ass dry for bullshit reasons. It only takes one cheesy fucktard to get your raider pc killed, even when you've taken all the realistic precautions possible. I -hate- having to kill my victims due to code limitations in order to give my raider pc even a snowball's chance in Zalanthas. I -hate- having my pc killed by raiders when I try to play along because they don't have much other choice in order to prevent twinkery against their pc, but I understand why it is done and I don't blame them one bit. I blame the code and the people who fight to keep that avenue of twinkery against them open.

I had a person "train" a carru to me as a raider, before. Mind you, this was spamming flee/flee/mount/n/n/n/n/get carru/flee/s/s/s/s/s/s. Now, I first learned the term "train" when I played Everquest when I was like... 12. This level of mature roleplaying about summed up the experience.

[flurry]

I think we need something in the middle between facewraps concealing everything in the mdesc and facewraps concealing nothing.  Maybe a separate description is the way to go, but my only concern there is in adding another step to the application and approval process.

[jhunter]

I personally don't see any reason someone would be against it except to allow twinkery to get unrealistic (99.9% OOC) revenge on raiders or to keep raider's numbers down. I personally wish that that it was more often done without having your raider pc fucked in the ass dry for bullshit reasons. It only takes one cheesy fucktard to get your raider pc killed, even when you've taken all the realistic precautions possible. I -hate- having to kill my victims due to code limitations in order to give my raider pc even a snowball's chance in Zalanthas. I -hate- having my pc killed by raiders when I try to play along because they don't have much other choice in order to prevent twinkery against their pc, but I understand why it is done and I don't blame them one bit. I blame the code and the people who fight to keep that avenue of twinkery against them open.

I had a person "train" a carru to me as a raider, before. Mind you, this was spamming flee/flee/mount/n/n/n/n/get carru/flee/s/s/s/s/s/s. Now, I first learned the term "train" when I played Everquest when I was like... 12. This level of mature roleplaying about summed up the experience.

I guess I'm not sure what relevance this has exactly.

[Desertman]

I personally wish that that it was more often done without having your raider pc fucked in the ass dry for bullshit reasons. It only takes one cheesy fucktard to get your raider pc killed, even when you've taken all the realistic precautions possible.

AMEN!!!

[Is Friday]

I personally don't see any reason someone would be against it except to allow twinkery to get unrealistic (99.9% OOC) revenge on raiders or to keep raider's numbers down. I personally wish that that it was more often done without having your raider pc fucked in the ass dry for bullshit reasons. It only takes one cheesy fucktard to get your raider pc killed, even when you've taken all the realistic precautions possible. I -hate- having to kill my victims due to code limitations in order to give my raider pc even a snowball's chance in Zalanthas. I -hate- having my pc killed by raiders when I try to play along because they don't have much other choice in order to prevent twinkery against their pc, but I understand why it is done and I don't blame them one bit. I blame the code and the people who fight to keep that avenue of twinkery against them open.

I had a person "train" a carru to me as a raider, before. Mind you, this was spamming flee/flee/mount/n/n/n/n/get carru/flee/s/s/s/s/s/s. Now, I first learned the term "train" when I played Everquest when I was like... 12. This level of mature roleplaying about summed up the experience.

I guess I'm not sure what relevance this has exactly.

It's hidden.

[Mood]

While I know that some mask items still exist for some purposes, they are currently more rare and more valuable than metal.  For no reason whatsoever.

I'm not even sure if those exist anymore. 

Edit: Or, rather, that that feature does.

[Tisiphone]

While I know that some mask items still exist for some purposes, they are currently more rare and more valuable than metal.  For no reason whatsoever.

I'm not even sure if those exist anymore. 

Edit: Or, rather, that that feature does.

See my post on the subject above.

[Mood]

While I know that some mask items still exist for some purposes, they are currently more rare and more valuable than metal.  For no reason whatsoever.

I'm not even sure if those exist anymore. 

Edit: Or, rather, that that feature does.

See my post on the subject above.

I could be mistaken, but I really have trouble seeing a change in OOC staff policy on mask items as IC-sensitive info.

[musashi]

I could be mistaken, but I really have trouble seeing a change in OOC staff policy on mask items as IC-sensitive info.

Thank you.

[Lakota]

Do we really need to give raiders/thieves/informants/whatever impenetrable shields of anonymity?

Really? Impenetrable? Who says you can't memorize what they're WEARING, as opposed to what they look like?

If they happen to be a smart raider and change their gear when raiding, then try their accent, gender, things that can be more difficult to change, especially the latter. 

[Tisiphone]

I could be mistaken, but I really have trouble seeing a change in OOC staff policy on mask items as IC-sensitive info.

Thank you.

You pretty much would be, though. Or, at least, the extent and ramifications of that change are.

[flurry]

Why the repeated hints if it's too IC to discuss?  I never understood why people need to call attention to the fact that they know something that can't be discussed. No offense; it just seems a little odd to me.