City Elves in Tuluk

[mansa]

If I was a City Elf in Tuluk...

Where would I live?

Would I live in a family tribe, or a collective gang that acts like a tribe?

What jobs would I have?

How would I treat the templars and nobility and bards?

How should I be expected to be treated by the authority and castes?

Would I have social respect for being an artist, or still mistrusted for being an elf?

What did the city elven population do during the wars?

Would I work for any of the tuluki nobility?

Would a noble "buy me a beer" ?

...

I'm very curious.  Does anybody have any answers for me?

[NoteworthyFellow]

Just adding my voice to this one, because I've always been curious as to how elves are viewed in Tuluk.  Half-elves, too.  Or, at least, how it is different from Allanak.

[Ourla]

I would love to see more city elves in Tuluk.  My PC needs more of you to sneer at.

Where would I live?

The options for c-elves in Tuluk are many, as they make up such a large part of the populace (the statistics elude me at the moment).  As most city elves would be self-employed or employed among their people in one way or another, most often doing shifty things, I would see them frequenting the less-upscale areas like the Warrens or the Old Quarter.  On the other hand, there are opportunities for elves and non-humans in the Poet's Circle and as partisans, and I've seen a few of them live quite comfortably that way.

Would I live in a family tribe, or a collective gang that acts like a tribe?

Due to the lack of documentation about Tuluki city elf tribes, I personally have played my elves there as coming from small VNPC family tribes.  It would really be up to the player.

What jobs would I have?

A city elf in many clans and noble houses in Tuluk would not proceed past the level of 'private' or thereabouts, if they were hired at all.  The more lucrative job opportunities for city-elves could very well lay in the mythical, infamous 'background' of Tuluk... partisan thief to a noble, assassin for a templar, or maybe even just a hunter for his tribe.

How would I treat the templars and nobility and bards?  How should I be expected to be treated by the authority and castes?

The general docs regarding city elves apply equally in both city-states.  Elves would not trust or be trusted by authority figures, maybe even if they've worked together for years.  Elves are marked citizens though, many of whom fought or were involved in the war, and I feel like Tulukis would swallow their distaste for politeness' sake.  Behind closed doors though, it's anyone's guess.

Would I have social respect for being an artist, or still mistrusted for being an elf?

Among those who would be aware of it, I think the social status of an accomplished elven thief would be pretty high.  Due to Tuluk's laws about thievery and its legality, any elven thief who enjoys a measure of success would be working closely with the templarate, both of them reaping the rewards.  No elf would probably ever be admitted to a templar or noble's inner trusts, though.  An elf's an elf, after all.  I could see it more being a business thing.

Would I work for any of the tuluki nobility?  Would a noble "buy me a beer" ?

Probably only as a partisan, and probably only late at night when nobody can see you come to their gates.

[Canticles]

Where would I live?

Depends on social standing, I would think. Could be anywhere from the the Poet's Circle to Under Tuluk.

Would I live in a family tribe, or a collective gang that acts like a tribe?

As Tuluk has a very tribal background, I'd likely say there would be a higher percentage of elves belonging to tribes than independent. The closest to a collective gang would be those who are in Rusarla Circle.

What jobs would I have?

Any profession you would find in a city, really.

How would I treat the templars and nobility and bards?

I imagine centuries living within walls and human society would have accustomed c-elves to accommodating to authority apart from their own tribe. They would have a measure of outward respect just as any other Tuluki citizen would, and likely even some patriotism for the city-state they've lived in their whole life (at least the area in which their tribe works within), just as a d-elf would protect and watch over their tribe's territory.

How should I be expected to be treated by the authority and castes?

You are a citizen, just as any other citizen, and would be expected to be treated as one in public. Privately, that's a different matter, as elves are notorious for being untrustworthy (for those who are biased, and with good reason of course  ).

Would I have social respect for being an artist, or still mistrusted for being an elf?

As an expert in your profession, no matter what, you would have social respect. In terms of trust though, a human/dwarf/etc would trust another human/dwarf/etc more than an elf, with exceptions as there always are.

What did the city elven population do during the wars?

I would imagine they would try to gain as much from the situation as things would allow, either for themselves, or for their tribe. That could come in as many ways as an elf could imagine.

Would I work for any of the tuluki nobility?

Most likely the closest association to nobility an elf would get would be as a partisan. Elves would never be trusted enough to be placed in sensitive or important public/private positions. This is still better treatment than in Allanak, certainly.

Would a noble "buy me a beer" ?

Likely not. If a noble wanted to spend coins on an elf, it would be due to ulterior motives beyond wanting to be "friendly". 

In summary, c-elves in Tuluk are publicly better treated than in many parts of the world, but the underlying prejudices against elves that come with the elven culture and mindset still makes them not fully trusted and accepted by the other races. Though appearing on the surface as all is going good and well with others, a c-elf in Tuluk would still be scheming as any other elf for the next profit, likely more deceptive in their ways than in any other place. Considering that Tuluki culture mixes quite well with elven culture, simple tactics of deception used by an elf that may be successful in most parts of the Known World would be expected and prepared for by even the common populace. Thus, the difference for c-elves in Tuluk than for those in Allanak would be the level of deception, that being much higher in Tuluk being that it's become an art even for the common populace to employ.

[psionic fungus]

One thing I would keep in mind when playing a Tuluki City-Elf:

These are law-abiding beings in a wealthy and artistic city that considers thievery an art, not starving malcontents in a quarantined ghetto struggling to survive.

Other than that, The Warrens seem like the appropriate place for most Tuluki City-Elves to dwell.

As I said in the "How Would You Improve City-Elves" thread, more documentation, more tribes, and more staff support are needed...

[Spoon]

As has already been mentioned, Rusarla circle.

It's a unique background for an elf, and there's not a huge amount of player history to work with, so it's very creative and rewarding working out the relationships between the Rusarla elf, the non-elf Rusarla members, the nobility, the common population of Tuluk, foreign elves...

It's the jackpot career for a parasitic city elf. I had a stupidly fun time in this role a while back, but never had a PC tribe to work with. That would have made it amazing...

[titansfan]

I have wanted to start a c-elf tribe in UnderTuluk....but too busy these days....

[elvenchipmunk]

I have wanted to start a c-elf tribe in UnderTuluk....but too busy these days....

Just play UnderTuluk. You don't need to start a c-elf tribe.   

As for c-elves in Tuluk, I would imagine they're treated like scum, not trusted, and would have trouble finding any job short of self-employment or employment by another elf. They would likely live in the Warrens if they're poor, or UnderTuluk possibly if they have a criminal life that pays most of the bills.

-Elvenchipmunk

[Maso]

I had a dream last night that the staff had banned City-Elvens from Tuluk and it was no longer a playable race, instead they had replaced it with this race of beings that all looked like old, withered, hunched crones.

Erm.

[mansa]

I have wanted to start a c-elf tribe in UnderTuluk....but too busy these days....

Just play UnderTuluk. You don't need to start a c-elf tribe.   

As for c-elves in Tuluk, I would imagine they're treated like scum, not trusted, and would have trouble finding any job short of self-employment or employment by another elf. They would likely live in the Warrens if they're poor, or UnderTuluk possibly if they have a criminal life that pays most of the bills.

-Elvenchipmunk

Sounds like Allanak style, Elvenchipmunk.  Tuluk is the place to go where mutants live and work and play.  Why would elves be treated so differently?

[Canticles]

Elves not only have the potential to thrive in Tuluk, but do. I don't quite understand the sentiment that they are despised and hated (at least in the north). Evidence is seen in the existence of a market dedicated to tribes, both city and outside elven tribes included, with decent commerce going in and out. It's not like some black market as it may be in other places...though such goods may pass hands unnoticed there, as in any other market. The biggest disadvantage to an elf, though, is that they have the reputation to be deceptive and conniving thieves, which they are.  That doesn't mean they are universally hated and treated as scum.

[elvenchipmunk]

Sounds like Allanak style, Elvenchipmunk.  Tuluk is the place to go where mutants live and work and play.  Why would elves be treated so differently?

I would say elves still have their natural, conniving roots, and they're still trying to swindle you out of shit all the time. I know Noble Houses (for the most part?) will not hire elves. Though...that point might actually be invalid because Noble Houses only hire partisans I think, hmm, and maybe an elf could get a job that way.

But what I meant in my post was that elves are still distrusted in Tuluk, even though mutants call that place home. It is likely not to the same degree as in Allanak, but an elf is an elf is an elf, I think. And it should be much harder for them to prove themselves to be trustworthy. Maybe that's the difference between Allanak and Tuluk? In Allanak, it is likely impossible for an elf to ever become anything. But in Tuluk, if the elf can prove themselves trustworthy, they might actually be accepted as someone close in social standing to a human. That being said I still don't think an elf in Tuluk would likely be able to ever attain the same degree of social standing as a human (that means the -highest- ranking human will never be less than the -highest- ranking elf, but one elf might be higher ranking in society than another human, obviously).

Yeah...hope to see more criminals in Tuluk 

-Elvenchipmunk

[Sokotra]

The biggest disadvantage to an elf, though, is that they have the reputation to be deceptive and conniving thieves, which they are.

Sounds like your average Tuluki... what's the difference?

[Tarx]

The biggest disadvantage to an elf, though, is that they have the reputation to be deceptive and conniving thieves, which they are.

Sounds like your average Tuluki... what's the difference?

There's a lot to be said for subtlety in Tuluk, but being subtle (or Tuluki) does not always = being a deceptive and conniving thief. 
Subtlety in Tuluk for the average Tuluki pervades at all levels, not just in the areas of skullduggery.

However, first impression of elves would normally = being a deceptive and conniving thief, regardless of origin.

[psionic fungus]

The best Elves and the best Tulukis are played subtly... So the best place to play an Elf is Tuluk... Right?

It seems that there should be a much larger niche for City Elves in Tuluk than in Allanak.  Especially considering "recent" events that forced everyone in the north to band together (bringing the nobles and commoners closer), it seems logical that the bond between City Elves and Humans would've strengthened as well.  After all, they have all worked together to rebuild a "luxuriant" and artistic city from rubble and ashes.

Alas, there is only one staff-supported and documented city-elf group in the game.  And it is far from Tuluk.

[Versu]

... are game for the larger species?

[titansfan]

Play more city elves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.......that's all......

[Archbaron]

I need more places to piss.

C-elves, people.

[tortall]

I have been seeing a buttload of c-elves. I don't see a need for MORE.

[Riev]

Personally I want to see more half-giants than I do city elves.

C-elves are dirty, and stupid. All they do is prance around with smelly faces. Poo on C-elves.

[jcljules]

The best Elves and the best Tulukis are played subtly... So the best place to play an Elf is Tuluk... Right?

It seems that there should be a much larger niche for City Elves in Tuluk than in Allanak.  Especially considering "recent" events that forced everyone in the north to band together (bringing the nobles and commoners closer), it seems logical that the bond between City Elves and Humans would've strengthened as well.  After all, they have all worked together to rebuild a "luxuriant" and artistic city from rubble and ashes.

Alas, there is only one staff-supported and documented city-elf group in the game.  And it is far from Tuluk.

I think I would like C-Elves better if they all belonged to clearly defined tribes that were obviously recognizable to most outsiders. I'm sure plenty of C-Elves have vNPC tribes written into their backgrounds, but I have never ever heard a city elf mention their tribe before, ever. I would like it better if C-Elves, like D-Elves, had to belong to coded and written tribes.

[Versu]

I'd like to see a place in tuluk where elves feel more comfortable. There's no elf exclusive warren or ghetto and there's confusion at times what an elf IS when encountering them. Did it just crawl out of the sewer? There's no elf territory, that's what I mean to say.

[Mechafish]

The C-elves should have a tribe in both cities.  They are like the D-elves but they live in the city.  I would love to see some C-elf orgazine(SP) a tribe for them.  I wish I was a C-elf...

To an elf, tribe is key. The tribe is almost always placed before the individual for an elf.

That's my point.

[Good Gortok]

There are two races that suffer from a lack of culture and purpose: city elves and dwarves. The dwarves' saving grace is that they can join most clans, and that they're not hindered by terrible coded disadvantages. The city elves are not so lucky.

The riding issue is obvious, and not much can be done about it. It's hugely prohibitive because most players desire one of two things: to join a clan with a clearly defined place in the game world, or to roam the world and do their thing. City elves are more or less incapable of doing either. Once in a blue moon, some city elf makes sergeant in the Byn or something like that, but obviously this is something that happens once every other year and isn't something to rely on. Personally, I think it's rather idiotic that city elves refuse to ride because they pride themselves in an ability to run which they don't have. Unfortunately, this can't just be changed out of the blue without making things incredibly jarring.

Besides the inability to travel, this race also suffers from absolutely horrible stats, making any combat-related role more of a challenge than most are willing to deal with. City elves are simply worse than any other playable race in this regard, and coupled with the fact that your only choice for meaningful employment is the Byn, you practically never see city elf warriors. Being an elf in the Byn sucks. They could make passable assassins, but that profession is enough of a challenge without adding awful stats, social stigma and the confinement to one location.

Non-combat roles are a possibility, but a city elf merchant is a laughable concept from an OOC perspective. Burglars and pickpockets don't suffer too much from the pathetic strength and endurance of this race, so this is the guild of choice for most. Unfortunately, for the above-mentioned reasons, being a thief with one or two friends in the world and no culture to speak of is not particularly entertaining in itself. The thieving guilds are not very diverse in the first place, and it takes quite a bit of effort to play a criminal, especially when you're often the only PC of your race in the entire city.

I think I would like C-Elves better if they all belonged to clearly defined tribes that were obviously recognizable to most outsiders. I'm sure plenty of C-Elves have vNPC tribes written into their backgrounds, but I have never ever heard a city elf mention their tribe before, ever. I would like it better if C-Elves, like D-Elves, had to belong to coded and written tribes.

I agree. If they had some larger, well-known clan to give them purpose and significance, I'm sure we would see more city elves. With as many options for clanning and roles as this game has, playing an almost completely unsupported and unwanted race is not very appealing.

First, however, I think the simplest and most effective step in the right direction would be to change the stat system. Make agility matter more, and make crappy strength less of a disadvantage. This would go a long way towards getting more players to play this sad race. If each city had half a dozen active elves, the culture might evolve naturally.

[Jingo]

The impression that I get when I think about city-elves is that they have really been left behind by the game. And that nobody has given any thought to their position in the game.

I do want to point out that I think city elves do have more opportunity in Tuluk. There is room for lawful sneaks, bards and even patronage relationships.

But in the south, non-'rinthi elves are even more restricted than gemmers. An unemployable mutant gemmer can at least leave the city on a mount.