Nature vs. Nurture Half-Elf Question (from Ask the Staff)

[AmandaGreathouse]

Half-elves are somewhat solitary types, and many spend most of their time out in the desert. They are rumoured to have a special rapport with beasts of all kinds, but whether this is true or not, or if it is due to something innate in their nature or simply because they spend a lot of time with their mounts, is a matter of debate.

Roleplaying: Accepted by neither humans nor elves, half-elves tend to be extremely self-reliant, and they pride themselves on this trait. Half-elves try to do everything for themselves, such as hunting for their own meals and camping well apart from others they are with. Despite this, half-elves typically try to gain acceptance by elves or humans and will go out of their way toward that end. In many ways, half-elves are on a continual journey to establish their personal identity.

I believe I remember reading somewhere that not -all- half-elves are the product of rape, if this is the case, are the ones born from a consentual (possibly even affectionate) relationship different? Or is this self-reliance and striving for the approval of humans and elves a natural characteristic that is Nature rather than Nurture? Would it be possible to have an open and friendly breed, with good IC backing for it? Or would it be considered as going to much against the documentation?


Edited to fix the quotation brackets.

[spicemustflow]

I think it's simply a result of how other people treat them from birth, there is no "approval seeking" gene. And no matter how loving his interracial parents are, once the breed steps out of his happy home, others will put him in his place. So, it's very hard to be friendly for them.

[veryalien]

Check my thread in the ask the players forum. Since you want everyone's approval it's OK to play a very friendly breed. I would certainly keep the self reliance part in. I think that's the most important thing for a half-elf on Zalanthas.

[RogueGunslinger]

I really don't see how you are translating self-reliant and striving to gain acceptance as not nice or not open with others. Self-reliant doesn't translate to hermit and someone who is striving to gain acceptance is very often nice, or kind to others. They think that if they treat others with kindness and global acceptance that they too will receive kindness and acceptance.

[Conspiracy Theory]

I think it's a nurture thing...

But I truly hope I never see an elf and a human in a loving relationship on Armageddon, or a halfbreed that doesn't have something wrong with them upstairs.

The very idea of it just strikes me as anti-Armageddon. An elf that fucks a human (or the other way around) would be viewed by his peers as something akin to someone who fucks their sister, or their pet gortok. No, it's not "impossible", but in my mind that doesn't make it okay.

That's just me.

[RogueGunslinger]

Not only is it not impossible. It happens on a regular basis. In our world, let alone a fantasy one where almost anything can happen.

I say if you have a concept for a character who fell in love with an elf, and it makes sense, is well role-played, and creates good role-play experience for others, go for it.

P.S. I'm pretty sure it's happened in the past. More than once.

[Conspiracy Theory]

I'm sure there've been elves that rode around on erdlus too. It's perfectly within one's ability to make one if you roleplay it out properly.

But I still wouldn't support the idea of making a character that did that. I guess I'm kind of a conformist like that.

[Lizzie]

Here's my thoughts on it.

A half-elf would be chock-full of thoughts. He'd present himself however to the outside world, while inside he's filled with turmoil. Because even if he's nice and sweet and loving and kind to people, he's treated as less than a second-class citizen. So inside, he's all "OMG they hate me I have to be NICER" or "OMG they hate me one of these days I'll kill them all!"

Sure, it's -possible- that one might have been brought up by two parents who loved him. But BOTH of those parents would have known that the rest of the world would not accept a half-breed as a normal person. If they "truly" loved him, they would have prepared him for it. He would know the moment he left home what he was up against. If they didn't really love him, he would be bombarded by it, and not know how to handle it, and probably totally fuck things up for himself.

In either case, a half-elf would not be accepted by society as a first-rate person. Elves would laugh at him, humans would steal his lunch money, other breeds would be afraid to be seen in public with him because they want so desparately to fit in with the rest of "normal" society. He would have to try three times as hard, to gain half the acceptance that his rinthi-scum pure human gets. Perhaps his upbringing would have a significant effect on HOW he handles that pressure. But it would not have any effect on how the rest of the world would treat him.

[Barzalene]

There was a long and excellent (if sometimes rancorous) discussion on this a year or two. Hopefully it was archived. But what was decided (if you can say anything ever gets decided on the boards) was that it was part of the half-elf psyche.  It was suggested that even a half elf who didn't know they were a half elf would manifest the instabilities inherent in the race.
Why?
Well, because the docs say so.
I think though it may not be logistically intuitive when we reason out the world, that we have to start from the docs and find justifications, because if we jwork the other way what happens when the docs don't make make sense? Then it's just going to have to rain, and you can't ride your beetle any more cause they're too heavy to support themselves and you too.

[Maso]

I was once informed by a staff member that my half-elf character must have a distinguishing feature either in their sdesc or desc that marks them as a half-elf.

Therefore, while I do like the concept of a half-elf who doesn't know they are one (and was trying for this), I don't know how it is possible. They would surely notice their features were different from all the other kids.

[veryalien]

Notice the current IC recruitment for some groups will specifically state openly that they don't accept half-breeds. This alone should be a stark reminder that racism is rampant on Zalanthas. Something I wish we did not bring in from Dark Sun.

[Marauder Moe]

We take our racism (specism?) much more seriously than Dark Sun does.


Anyway, IRL I believe most aspects of a person result from a combination of both nature and nurture.  I think a half-elf raised in a nurturing environment is going to be better-adjusted than your average Zalanthan half-elf, but probably still unstable in some ways compared to the average pure human raised in the same environment.

[jstorrie]

I was once informed by a staff member that my half-elf character must have a distinguishing feature either in their sdesc or desc that marks them as a half-elf.

Therefore, while I do like the concept of a half-elf who doesn't know they are one (and was trying for this), I don't know how it is possible. They would surely notice their features were different from all the other kids.

The docs do state that half-elves often pass as elves or humans. I played a long-lived half-elf last year who was orphaned and then raised as human, and didn't know he was a half-elf, but still had the whole half-elf-psyche thing going. He died before he or anyone else conclusively figured out that he wasn't human, though he did, ironically, have the piss beaten out of someone who insinuated he wasn't human once. His mdesc didn't say he was half-elven right out, though it did have hints (he was tall and lanky, his eyes were a bit almond-shaped, his features were very angular, etc.)

[Simple]

I was once informed by a staff member that my half-elf character must have a distinguishing feature either in their sdesc or desc that marks them as a half-elf.

Therefore, while I do like the concept of a half-elf who doesn't know they are one (and was trying for this), I don't know how it is possible. They would surely notice their features were different from all the other kids.

The docs do state that half-elves often pass as elves or humans. I played a long-lived half-elf last year who was orphaned and then raised as human, and didn't know he was a half-elf, but still had the whole half-elf-psyche thing going. He died before he or anyone else conclusively figured out that he wasn't human, though he did, ironically, have the piss beaten out of someone who insinuated he wasn't human once. His mdesc didn't say he was half-elven right out, though it did have hints (he was tall and lanky, his eyes were a bit almond-shaped, his features were very angular, etc.)

I often assess -v ambiguous PCs.

[Marauder Moe]

I often assess -v ambiguous PCs.

I specifically refrain from assess'ing ambiguous PCs because it's so much more fun that way.

[Mood]

I often assess -v ambiguous PCs.

I wish you, and others, would not. I wish that function of the code was removed, actually.

[Sokotra]

But I truly hope I never see an elf and a human in a loving relationship on Armageddon, or a halfbreed that doesn't have something wrong with them upstairs.

I'm not sure if I missed something myself or if this is being missed here in this thread... but I'm pretty sure that it would not be extremely uncommon for there to be two half-elves in a loving (although perhaps somewhat disfunctional) relationship on Armageddon.  I've had a few characters that have had two half-elven parents... I played them about the same as any other half-elf, with some minor differences.

I was once informed by a staff member that my half-elf character must have a distinguishing feature either in their sdesc or desc that marks them as a half-elf.

Therefore, while I do like the concept of a half-elf who doesn't know they are one (and was trying for this), I don't know how it is possible. They would surely notice their features were different from all the other kids.

From what I've noticed, and I could be wrong, but the Staff members seem to vary a bit on these issues.  I've had half-elves that were mostly human and had a touch of elf in them from a few generations back, if I remember correctly, so it was pretty hard to tell if they were a halfbreed or if they were just a tall and lanky human (which there are plenty of, so it wouldn't give you away).  The policy on this may have changed since then...

[Kyviantre]

But I truly hope I never see an elf and a human in a loving relationship on Armageddon...

Done that one, and for decent IC reason (give it another month and a half, and its a year ago-ish, hence no more details for now!), even if it was short-lived (and proved to be exactly as advertised - dirty elf was a sticky-fingers after all!).