Who should -not- join the Byn

[Lizzie]

I've been tempted to respond to a few different threads lately, but since they were all in response to people recommending the Byn, I thought it'd be easier to open a thread just for the purpose.

Fortunately, I have been better educated by players in this thread, and have realized I was wrong. So without further ado, here are people who should not join the Byn:

No one. No one should not join the Byn. Everyone should join the Byn. In fact, if you are used to MUSHES, to the point where the very idea of combat spam gives you a migraine, you should make absolutely sure that your ivory-skinned, delicate-boned, guild-merchant jeweler joins the Byn within your first hour of play. You need to get immersed in combat before doing anything else, or you will hate Armageddon and many kittens will die.

If you only have one hour of time to play the game every day, and the idea of logging in just in time to catch the end of a sparring session, then running to the tavern after sparring, just in time to run back to the compound for more sparring, and then logging out for the night, churns your stomach, then the Byn is absolutely positively for you.

If you have read all the warnings about not leaving the city gates if you want a long-lived character, and feel that it is sound advice, and want to give your first character the best possible chance at survival, then do yourself a huge favor and make a non-combat character, and have that non-combat character join the Byn.

Because everyone knows that the Byn is fine for anyone, regardless of their OOC situation or preferences to their Arming pleasures.

Edited to correct everything because I was wrong about everything, according to everyone else.

[X-D]

Point number one is nearly a given.

I completly disagree on point #2

The Byn is actually my clan of choice if I am not able to play often or for long periods or if my logins are going to be erratic. If you wish to join a clan, there is no better clan for that.

You don't need a "day off" to go enjoy tavern time, the Byn schedule leaves nights off which ICly is when there are people in the taverns anyway.

Now, if you are an off peak player...well, I'd probly not join the byn
But then, its tough to find any clan that is good for. Tribes tend to be a bit better for that.

[Gimfalisette]

The typical new player is a 20-year-old American male who's coming from a MUD background primarily playing hack-and-slash type stuff, and is new to roleplaying. This guy is interested in fighting stuff, or stealing stuff. He's not interested in crafting stuff, he's not interested in politics, he probably doesn't know much about how to really play a character or even emote. His major issue will be killing things without insta-dying; insta-death from scrabs just outside the gates of Allanak is a -terrible- way to introduce someone to ARM.

If you go back and read my recent recommendations to "join the Byn," that's the kind of player I'm addressing. And that's the kind of player the Byn really works for--those who want/need to learn the coded, combat-oriented areas of gameplay first. This drive toward learning combat first is A-OK, and the Byn supports it well.

And if any clan is going to have a decent population to support folks who only have short playtimes, the Byn is certainly it.

Not to mention, there are some combat-oriented clans who cannot take newbies at all; but the Byn can and does.

Besides, everyone SHOULD join the Byn at least once. It's part of the quintessential ARM experience. If we don't tell newbies that, then when 2.ARM rolls around and there's no Byn anymore, they'll all feel deprived they never got to try it out.

[Synthesis]

> help tzai_byn
T'zai Byn                                                          (General)

   Once the Allanaki Mercenaries' Guild, The T'zai Byn is now the largest
mercenaries' guild in both Allanak and Tuluk.  It is easily the oldest
and largest mercenary company in Allanak. With a reputation for toughness
and brutal effectiveness on the field, the Byn is also known for its
neutrality with respect to many factions, an essential quality for much
of its work. Escorting, guarding, and training are the company's three
main operations.


I think the help file, and the fact that you have to -pay- to get into the Byn suggest that yes, you may in fact join the Byn merely to learn how to effectively wield a sword and shield.

[Kevo]

The typical new player is a 20-year-old American male who's coming from a MUD background primarily playing hack-and-slash type stuff, and is new to roleplaying. This guy is interested in fighting stuff, or stealing stuff. He's not interested in crafting stuff, he's not interested in politics, he probably doesn't know much about how to really play a character or even emote. His major issue will be killing things without insta-dying; insta-death from scrabs just outside the gates of Allanak is a -terrible- way to introduce someone to ARM.

You can't be serious.
That's opinion, not fact, right?
I think you have broken my heart.
I'm a twenty-ish american male.

Although, I have no interest in just combat. I'm more interested in crafting, exploration, and pretty much just telling a good story.
When I first joined Arm, I was around 16, so at that time, I have found only games that you were describing, but I often had the most fun just roleplaying the char, even if it didn't quite fit in with the actual scenery.

I tried playing the eternal city, but it felt cold, and empty. the only emotion and heart I saw, was associated with materialistic things. I guess that's understandable, for the setting, but i could tell it was just the player's emphasis, and not the char itself. I tried some other games, and I think Topmudlisting had Arm on it, and I was like, hmm, roleplay _enforced_....awesome.

My first char was cut down twice in two hours. I found the well in the rinth, and then I met a friendly raider. heh. good times.
Mey second char joined the Byn. I didn't even want to, I was playing a thief, and they really needed a cover story for their occupation, so I used some of my newbie sid to join on, and I had a great time being bad at it.

I enjoyed not doing well, getting chewed out, resenting my job, griping about latrine duty, and then drinking myself stupid in the Gaj.
I think everyone should join the Byn, if at least so they can one day say, I couldn't cut it in the Byn. That way, we all have an embarassing secret for mindbenders to pry loose. Or not. Whichever is funner for you.

[Gimfalisette]

You can't be serious.
That's opinion, not fact, right?
I think you have broken my heart.
I'm a twenty-ish american male.

I don't have access to the relevant data, but I would bet money that I'm correct about what I think. Could I be wrong, sure...but the fact remains we do get a lot of young males who are HnSers. And to that I say, AWESOME! Clearly they're looking for something more; maybe they don't know what it really is yet, but we'll bring them into ARM and addict them to Crackageddon. Eventually I hope they all grow up to be LoDs and similar older guys who started as HnSer types, but are now so much more.

So you're twenty-something and you're not like the typical new player? Cool! I'm a thirties-something woman and I'm not the typical newbie either. Who cares, really? Even I, who hardly did combat on my first real character (and then died to a combination of a raptor in a weird location and massive lag), needed to learn about combat at some point...so I joined the Byn!

We get plenty of MUSHers who have no experience with hard-coded reality, either. Guess what...at some point they will also need to learn about combat. The Byn is a great place for them too, even though (like me) their -first- character attempt may not be combat-oriented.

I'm currently being amused that a year or 18 months ago, I would have been accused of being too Tuluk- and bards-RAH RAH, and now folks think I'm a Byn rah-rah. Different strokes of ARM for different folks, mi amigos.

[Rhyden]

Not everyone should join the Byn, but everyone can join the Byn so long as they fit the IC requirements. And though there are perhaps better or worse clans to be in when your playing time isn't lengthy, anyone should be able to join any clan, regardless of how long they play. The Byn, like several other clans, has a simple atmosphere where newer players can learn how to play the game without much risk.

Can non-fighting characters join the Byn? Abso-fucking-lutely - so long as they have the 300 sid and the Sergeant is willing. Of course, they'll probably be at a slight disadvantage when the fighting characters start beating the crap out of them. In the end, the Byn is as much a mercenary guild as it is a training guild, so if you come without any prior knowledge of combat, you'll probably leave with some, if you make it.

[Lizzie]

So much for trying to fix confusion rather than cause it.

Edit: I have been corrected soundly and see the errors of my ways. My thread -was- supposed to be about everything I posted below, but I was wrong. So instead, this thread is about how everyone can join the Byn, and how everyone should join the Byn. No matter what your OOC preferences for playing are, whether you want to start your first character with Armageddon playing it safe behind city walls with a non-combat character, or whether you want to dive right in there with a hunter. It doesn't matter, because as you can see by everyone else's posts, the Byn is for anyone and everytone.

Gim, I made this new thread, intentionally so as not to detract or derail from the other threads. THIS thread (was supposed to be) about who should NOT join the Byn. Not about who should join it. Rhyden, yes I realize anyone CAN join the Byn. That is not what this thread (was supposed to be) about. It's about who SHOULD join it. From an OOC standpoint, not an IC standpoint. From a new player - PLAYER, not PC, who, like myself, did not want to get immediately into combat. I wanted the -opportunity- to do so, but it was definitely not my primary goal. I totally completely did NOT want to be subjected to IC scheduling, where I might have to play a character who intentionally breaks rules, just so I could NOT spar for 20 minutes, then need to log out for an hour, and log back in only to find out it's sparring time again.

Everyone knows that that Byn is awesome for combat training (not merchant training, not short-term "what's the syntax for equipping my weapon and shield? Oh thanks, c-ya" training, not lockpicking training, not palm training. Combat training.) But not everyone who reads this forum, who is new to this game, and possibly even to roleplaying, realizes that the Byn is NOT for non-combat *players.* Sure any guild_merchant can show up at the Byn gates with 300 sids and join. But the *player* is not going to have much fun, unless that player has been around long enough to realize what it means to be the exception to the rule.

That is the purpose of this thread.

[Marauder Moe]

I disagree with #1.

I had a merchant in the Byn.  He never won a single sparring match (though he did improve his fighting skills over time).  His sergeant begged him not to leave when his term as a runner was up.

[Lizzie]

Moe, you probably weren't brand new to Armageddon. You probably knew that picking guild_merchant and joining the Byn was not a "typical" move for a non-combat-oriented character choice. You knew that you would be playing the exception to the rule. You knew that no one in the Byn was going to teach you how to be a merchant. You weren't going to get much opportunity to become a master crafter. You were going to spend -most- of your character's time, -most- of your login time, either sparring, or riding out on combat-oriented contracts. You, the player, knew this, and you, the player, was able to come to an educated decision to do it anyway.

This thread has nothing to do with what people CAN do. I thought I made that clear. A thief CAN join the Legion. A rinth-rat CAN join Kurac. A hunter CAN join House Oash. A warrior CAN become a noble's aide. This has nothing to do with what you CAN do. It has to do with expectations of brand spanking new players who have no idea that the Byn is a combat-oriented clan, and if they plan on learning how to be a noble's aide with their guild_merchant armorcrafter_subguild character, then they should probably NOT join the Byn.

[Rhyden]

Rhyden, yes I realize anyone CAN join the Byn. That is not what this thread is about. It's about who SHOULD join it. From an OOC standpoint, not an IC standpoint. From a new player - PLAYER, not PC, who, like myself, did not want to get immediately into combat. I wanted the -opportunity- to do so, but it was definitely not my primary goal. I totally completely did NOT want to be subjected to IC scheduling, where I might have to play a character who intentionally breaks rules, just so I could NOT spar for 20 minutes, then need to log out for an hour, and log back in only to find out it's sparring time again.

It sounds like you simply don't like the schedule of the Byn. As said, there are other clans. With different schedules.

Everyone knows that that Byn is awesome for combat training (not merchant training, not short-term "what's the syntax for equipping my weapon and shield? Oh thanks, c-ya" training, not lockpicking training, not palm training. Combat training.) But not everyone who reads this forum, who is new to this game, and possibly even to roleplaying, realizes that the Byn is NOT for non-combat *players.* Sure any guild_merchant can show up at the Byn gates with 300 sids and join. But the *player* is not going to have much fun, unless that player has been around long enough to realize what it means to be the exception to the rule.

It's a good thing the Byn is one of the easiest clans to leave, perhaps due to the fact that its one of the only public ones unaffiliated with any House.

[Marauder Moe]

Moe, you probably weren't brand new to Armageddon. You probably knew that picking guild_merchant and joining the Byn was not a "typical" move for a non-combat-oriented character choice. You knew that you would be playing the exception to the rule. You knew that no one in the Byn was going to teach you how to be a merchant. You weren't going to get much opportunity to become a master crafter. You were going to spend -most- of your character's time, -most- of your login time, either sparring, or riding out on combat-oriented contracts. You, the player, knew this, and you, the player, was able to come to an educated decision to do it anyway.

That was my third character, actually, and I expected that I'd eventually be able to hold my own against the average wilderness mob.

This thread has nothing to do with what people CAN do. I thought I made that clear. A thief CAN join the Legion. A rinth-rat CAN join Kurac. A hunter CAN join House Oash. A warrior CAN become a noble's aide. This has nothing to do with what you CAN do. It has to do with expectations of brand spanking new players who have no idea that the Byn is a combat-oriented clan, and if they plan on learning how to be a noble's aide with their guild_merchant armorcrafter_subguild character, then they should probably NOT join the Byn.

Who the heck, even as a newbie, was inducted into the Byn without having found out what they were?

[Jenred]

I enjoyed not doing well, getting chewed out, resenting my job, griping about latrine duty, and then drinking myself stupid in the Gaj.
I think everyone should join the Byn, if at least so they can one day say, I couldn't cut it in the Byn. That way, we all have an embarassing secret for mindbenders to pry loose. Or not. Whichever is funner for you.

The best was when a monster came out of latrine.... it was like a shit-covered.... something.
The female was scarred for life.

Oh and drinking at the Gaj... there was some chick that used to dance on the tables... mm.
Oh, and then the best job ever, being forward troops for an attack on Tuluk? mm...

And then when we had that one elf that resented everyone for being human?

fun times in the Byn. Years and years of fun times.


Just wish I wasn't on off-peak time in Korea, or I'd join (not fun seeing 1 or 2 on Who)

[Ghost]

A RL friend of mine started playing his first character a few years ago, I suggested him Byn and he rolled a merchant character and started there.  He did not learn to fight.  He never got good at fighting.  But he did get in just fine, he did learn how to emote during his training.  He did Allanak from his clanmates, he did learn Byners are a piece of shit in the social status, just like every other commoner.
Before he finished his 24 hours of playtime, when a clanmate asked him if he will be a Byner for life, my friend pretty much said: "I am not really up for fighting.  I joined the Byn because I am from the farms and don't know anyone in the city.  I wanted to make my contacts and get to know the city while I have shelter and food.  Byn gives me all that.  So no, I will start a business around here, and you fuckers can be my clients."

So yeah, complete newbie, guild_merchant and Byn worked out.

Byn is not just a training ground.  The people in byn (when I played there) did expect for most of the newbies to join there.  That is why it is so easy to join Byn.  It has pretty simple rules, nothing a newbie can screw up or get intimidated with.  It is downright gritty and zalanthan, pretty good way of showing how the life of a commoner in Zalanthas is.  It is (for the most part) an active clan, which a newbie can benefit a lot from.  It accepts people from all races and cities.  And once the newbie gets comfortable with the game and wants to leave they can, whereas some clans are for life.

So...  I am pretty confident in suggesting all newbies to start from Byn.  If there was still Atrium, I could also offer that one but meh.

[Mood]

The Byn is a useful clan for inducting newbies into the game, no matter what their guild. Had my first PC not joined, it's unlikely I'd be around today - Armageddon can be very frustrating to newbies, and it's nice to have a clan like the Byn that can help you along.

[Jenred]

And besides just being a good introduction to commands, combat, emoting, etc., it was a GREAT introduction to my first couple characters on the intricacies of racial roleplay (We had an elf while I was there), social structure (we served nobles that paid well, independents that paid less, and templars that paid if we were lucky), city geography, world geography, etc.

its good all around, and the concept alone can fit with almost anything.
You pay to be there, for whatever reason. We had a merchant that joined, like someone mentioned above, to learn the VERY basics, of combat. They were a house sponser. They had no intention of being great.

At one point, a magicker joined! (We learned they were a magicker later).

The idea of a mercenary band of ragtag people is great for anyone playing the very common, "lone individual trying to make his way".

[Marauder Moe]

Oh come on, Lizzie.  Don't be daft. 

You said, essentially, "all non-combat-focused characters should not join the Byn".

Several people responded with examples saying that "some non-combat-focused characters have joined the Byn an benefited", thereby logically refuting your argument.

That does not mean, however, that anyone is making the statement "all characters should join the Byn"... except you, now.

[Lizzie]

No, that isn't what I said Moe, and that is why I am frustrated with the responses. I said that PLAYERS whose interest in PLAYING non-com characters should not join the Byn. And the reason for that is, they will end up involved in combat, even though it wasn't what they wanted to do. It doesn't matter what guild/class you pick. It matters what you WANT to do with your time in the game. If you DO want to experiment, explore, play with, or focus on combat, then the Byn is awesome and very appropriate. If you (you, the player, not your character) want to AVOID combat with the time you have available for playing Armageddon, then the Byn is not an appropriate choice.

If YOU, the PLAYER, do NOT want to have a character involved in combat, then the BYn is not an appropriate choice. You might end up involved in combat anyway, even if you don't join the Byn. But joining the Byn is definitely something you would not want to do, if your gameplaying interest lies outside the realm of regularly scheuled combat.

[Marauder Moe]

Ok... isn't that kind of obvious, though?

[Lizzie]

No, it isn't Moe. That is why I created this thread. When I first started playing Armageddon, I read MUCH more of the GDB than I did of the official documents. I paid close attention to what other players were saying, especially to the recommendations of veterans to new players in the new player section of the forum.

If I had heeded the constant, continual "JOIN THE BYN!" advice of everyone, I would not still be playing Armageddon. If my first impression of gaming in this game consisted of adhering to a strict schedule as a human warrior in the Byn in Allanak, as was highly -highly- recommended, I would have not even bothered to kill off my character. I simply would have stopped playing after the first couple of days.

The Byn has become a catch-all piece of advice for everyone, and it really just plain isn't right for everyone. Some players are "socializers" by nature and really do not want to be burdened with combat on a regular basis. I'm very much a socializer, but I have a big chunk of "explorer" in me as well. And I recognize that if I want to play an explorer type in Armageddon, then yes I do need to have some combat skills, and I do need to practice them. But I would never join the Byn with any of my characters, because of the nature of the clan. From what I've seen in RPing with Bynners, from the documents themselves, the Byn has very strict schedules, and the only time you are allowed to go off to explore is if you go with your unit on a contract or other expedition arranged by your Sergeant. If there is no contract, and your sergeant's player isn't usually around when you play, then you are stuck, OR you have to decide to play a rule-breaker and go out and do what YOU, the player, wanted to do in the first place. Which was to explore.

For socializers like me, even with the added desire to explore the game world, the Byn is a HUGE turn-off. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, and I thought it would be a service to new players who might also be "socializers" to know that yes, everyone recommends the Byn for everything, for every purpose, for every function, for everyone, but no, it really isn't appropriate all the time for everyone no matter what.

[LoD]

No, that isn't what I said Moe, and that is why I am frustrated with the responses. I said that PLAYERS whose interest in PLAYING non-com characters should not join the Byn. And the reason for that is, they will end up involved in combat, even though it wasn't what they wanted to do. It doesn't matter what guild/class you pick. It matters what you WANT to do with your time in the game.

If YOU, the PLAYER, do NOT want to have a character involved in combat, then the Byn is not an appropriate choice.

Lizzie,

You seem to be really riled up about this subject and want people to agree with you that the T'zai-Byn is not the single best solution for every character concept possible in the realm of Armageddon.  Let me give you the satisfaction that you so desperately crave -- I agree. 

However, I cannot agree that the T'zai-Byn is not an appropriate choice for players that do not want to play a character involved in combat.  As you mentioned before, whether you are in the T'zai-Byn or not will not save your character from potentially being in combat, and I interpret your statement as meaning that people joining the Byn cannot escape the normal schedule that forces them to endure sparring sessions even if they are not interested in that form of RP.

I can think of several non-combat character concepts that would work in the T'zai-Byn.  And if I were to play one of them, I would find a Sergeant and pitch my character concept to them along with my 300 (or perhaps 400) 'sid to make it happen.

Here are a few off the top of my head:

Quartermaster (Merchant/Armor Crafter)

Create a quartermaster character that joins the Byn under a Sergeant, responsible for making sure the Unit is outfitted appropriately and making use of resources the Unit gathers in the field to make a profit and/or keep the company outfitted with the best they can manage.  This character might be free of the regular daily regimen to keep contacts with House Salarr and negotiate with local hunters that provide them with materials for creating goods/items.

Cook (Any combination)

Every Unit could use a cook.  Someone who goes along with the mercenaries on missions and handles all of the non-combative tasks; the food and water duties, tending to the pack animals, making fires, cooking up food, rationing out the water, and carrying other supplies that might be necessary to success such as torches, rope, arrows, extra shields or weapons, etc...

Interpreter (Any class/Linguist)

Ever run into a group out in the wilderness, or encounter a northern/southern patrol that probably doesn't want to hear a barbarian speak to them?  Well, it sure would be nice to have someone along that can handle the finer points of communication.  Someone who can speak with those elves, who has spent time learning the ways of the various nomadic tribes.  Someone who might be able to give that northern raiding group pause when they switch to a northern accent and describe how they're on a mission hunting down a northern enemy.

What I remember of the T'zai-Byn is not the hours and hours spent in coded combat, but the interactions with those characters during each of the appointed tasks.  It's one of the few clans that reinforces interaction with the same group of people over and over and over again, almost daring people to invent RP as a means of passing the time.  As a result, you usually get more out of your session than with people who aren't on Day 20 of cleaning the latrine.

Armageddon is a wonderfully diverse game, and one of its best features is that you find ways to be anything that you want to be, as long as you're willing to adopt the concept in your own mind.  So, while I agree that the T'zai-Byn might not be the globally best choice for any and all characters, saying that it is inappropriate for people that want to avoid coded combat isn't necessarily true. 

Be creative with solutions to problems, and there are no limits to what you can achieve.

-LoD

[Marauder Moe]

Out of curiosity, why didn't you heed the advice of everyone and join the Byn?

Have you ever heard of anyone who did want to be just a socializer but joined the Byn instead and had a bad time?

Also... have you ever played in the Byn?  Nearly half of the schedule is socializing (with your fellow Bynners), and plenty of social banter occurs during the other half too.

I'm a very social player.  I love the Byn.

The Byn does plenty of exploring too.  They end up in all corners of the world, and if you stay with them long enough you're virtually guaranteed to see every single human-visitable settlement.  You seem to be implying that it's not truly "exploring" unless you're alone and acting on your own schedule.

Sorry, I'm just really puzzled here.  You seem to be very adamantly protesting a problem that I can't even see.

[Ghost]

What are you really saying?  Of course it is obvious.  When they are encouraged to join a mercenary guild, what are they going to think they will be doing durig their time?  It is a mercenary guild for Krath's sake, not a book club.  How much more obvious it could be that there will be involvement with combat?

The Byn has become a catch-all piece of advice for everyone, and it really just plain isn't right for everyone. Some players are "socializers" by nature and really do not want to be burdened with combat on a regular basis.

What?  The Byn -does- give you the chance to socialize, what do you think you will be doing with your clan mates, just fight all day?  The Byn has 3 IG hours of training every IG day, and yet even that is all about socializing.  Because when you are waiting beside the sparring ring you don't idle usually, but chat with your clanmates.  Even people who are in the ring do keep talking while they fight.  Why do you think many people -LOVE- Byn, just because combat?  No.  Because the life of a mercenary is as colorful as that of a pirate.

If you like to explore, you would rather do it when you are -NOT- newbie anymore.  How much more frustrating it would be for someone to die everytime to learn learn something new.  If a newbie wants to explore, they can join the byn, get the regular desert training, grasp the common knowledge about the desert in Zalanthas and then once they graduate, they can join wherever they want to join and then explore/socialize in a non-mercenary guild.

[X-D]

Ghost, LoD, and Moe explain quite well. But I am going to throw in my 2 sid as well.

Because the Byn is a VERY social clan. Complete with parts of schedule strictly to flex your emotive change ldesc muscles along with others.

LoD and myself have both played Byn officers, and he is correct about being able to play non-combat roles in the byn. My PC hired just as he suggested. Quartermaster, Medic etc. And they were encouraged to learn some combat as well. Lets face it, If your medic dies in the first round of combat he is not doing you any good. But never pushed hard on the matter.

The strict rules of the byn actually I think help to make them one of the MOST social clans in that people are (hopefully) Kept alive and inside the city most the time rather then wandering off on their own.. Ever seen a successful byn sarge or LT who was Not social? They have to be, its in the job description.

[Lizzie]

I read a post about a guy who doesn't have much time to play, and wants to play a thief character, not just the code, but the character itself. Everyone was telling him to join the Byn. And I was thinking, WTF does the Byn have to do with learning how to be a thief? And, in Allanak at least, if he does join the Byn, and his Sergeant is around to make sure he sticks with the schedule, and he only has an hour to play every day, that means he is -most- likely (compared with other clans), to have ONLY enough time to get to the tavern before he has to turn around and get back to sparring again. Leaving him with little to no time to actually try to "be" the thief he wants his character to be. Unless of course he tries stealing from his clannies, but if he's a clever thief, he'll know that you don't piss in your own back yard.

I thought, why is everyone telling this guy to join the Byn? Why not get into more "underworld" options instead, hang out where seedy types hang out and hope to get picked up by the less talked about clan(s)? At least that way he'll have a really good shot at having someone teach him, both code-wise and ICly, what it's like to BE a Zalanthan thief.

And that's when I realized, people just automatically toss out the Byn card, no matter what. It's almost as though they're not reading the newbie's post. They see "new person asks advice - the most accceptable answer, no matter what his question is: Join the Byn."

Why didn't I join the Byn? Because my first character was a guild-merchant, with I think hunter subclass, and I wanted to be the kind of crafter who could skin her own hides and raw materials and become a trader. I didn't want to be a "fighter" type, I had no desire to get involved in barroom brawls, I wanted my character to be highly "civilized" polite with proper speaking and clean clothes, the type who would -hire- the Byn, not the type who would be a member. That was my initial goal in playing, and after reading the GDB (see, not the docs - the GDB) I discovered that Tuluk was probably the best place for that. I ended up hired by Salarr as an aide my first day playing, was instructed not to go out hunting without escort, my only escort got killed, and I stored the character when the NPC said I'd have to be transferred to Allanak when my boss was executed. The idea of being stuck in what I understood to be a place where only rangers could see at night, where there wasn't much to hunt unless you were already damned good at hunting, in a role where I knew I'd rarely have a chance to get out anyway, was so unattractive to me that I just stored and moved on.