Inspiration for the rinth and more

[spicemustflow]

Anybody here read a SF masterpiece "Books of the New Sun" by Gene Wolfe. It deals with our planet a couple of millenia in the future (kinda like Dying Earth series which compares to the Books of the New Sun like Paris Hilton's diary to King Lear). It is not an easy read but the atmosphere of the work bis yet to bu surpassed by any author in the genre (my opinion of course, but still correct ) Anyway, there is that huge city Nessus, capital of the Commonwealth and and the rich grow richer they move their residences up the reiver where water isn't yet that polluted, the lower classes follow them eventually, and that leaves us with abandonded maze down the river filled with derelict buildings stripped off of anything of value and populated by dregs of society, criminals and people so poor that they can't afford anything and they live there as they can, scraping the fungus of the wall and making pasta . To venture there is to invite certain death, though sometimes some treasure hunters dare to go go inside in hope they'll discover some long forgotten valuables that are somehow missed on by locals. Sounds like a rinth to me, and I'm curious if whoever had a hand in making the rinth read the books I was talking about, picked the basic idea and adapted it to the world of Zalanthas.

Also, I'm a huge fan of Planescape Torment video game, famous for it's extraordinary writing and the rinth always reminded me of the slums in that game, Ragpickers square for example. I thought I was the only one, but then I heard some of the rinthi characters occasionally use some slang from the game like "deaders" and such, and adopt their way of talk In general. Of course torment couldn't be considered inspiration for the rinth as ARM has been up for a long time before Torment was published, but some of the players notice the connection.

Rinth is the main reason why I'm not particularly happy about arm2. Don't get me wrong I enjoy other aspects of Zalantas, desert exploration, brutal city states, world that is a mix of conan's/ancient civilizations of eath/etc. but always get back to the alleys. To whomever is in charge of arm2, give us something similar to rith. I don't mean just a village of thugs who would have no qualms to end your life, it has to be mysterious dark and convoluted and at discord to the other settings in the game. I have played a few rinthis and I have a lot to learn about it.

PS I got back from some celebration, forgive the alcohol in my blood while typing this post. I really mean everything I said even though I could articulate it better.

[Bakha]

The 'rinth, AFAIK, was originally patterned after the area of the same name in the city of Sanctuary from the Thieves World series of novels.

I'm not too familiar with any of the other influences you speak of, but I definitely like fantasy with that sort of feel.

[Maybe42or54]

There is a lot of potential for Rinth's in Arm.2.
I havn't seen them say anything about if either city survives. And if they don't, they don't just disappear overnight, there is going to be ruins. With ruins comes the ghetto and more.

Perhaps it will be just like it is now, but the warring factions will have more property and power.

[spicemustflow]

Aha! So the rinth stays, or maybe better & improved version of it! Suddenly the end of the world isn't so scary.

I'm not too familiar with any of the other influences you speak of, but I definitely like fantasy with that sort of feel.

Then I can really recommend you the Books of the New Sun, not really about thieves, but plenty of them nonetheless. Some people love it some hate it, but even the haters admit that their inability to enjoy the books stems from their short attention span and lack of vocabulary (haha, I sound pretentious as hell).

I'll have to check out that Sanctuary from the thieves, never heard of it, who's the author? I simply can't get enough thieves.

[titansfan]

I'm a very big supporter of the Rinth. It has always been my most favorite thing of Arm and always will be.

Sure I like the desert and the rest of the wastes, but pffft, that doesn't even come close to the fun I have in the crime life of a good ol' Rinther.

PS: I also like Tuluk and playing city dwelling characters there too, it's fun. :p

[Incognito]

For sure - the Rinth is one of the many important locations that defines Arm and Zalanthas as it is today. I hope we see some kinda version of it in Arm 2.0.

All the same, its a heckuva fun place to be in - folks who've never bothered to give it a try should definitely do so, before the chance is lost forever.

[Tisiphone]

I'll have to check out that Sanctuary from the thieves, never heard of it, who's the author? I simply can't get enough thieves.

Lynn Abbey and Robert Aspirin are the compilers. The writing isn't all that good, but you shouldn't expect it to be, either. Thieves' World, Tales from the Vulgar Unicorn and as of late an actual book named Sanctuary which is readable without the short-story background. I know I'm forgetting something, but that's because I never followed the anthology with anything approaching seriousness.

[psionic fungus]

I was always kinda disappointed with the Thieves' World books I picked up.

Not enough thievery. 

Too much -way- high fantasy crap like Gods interfering with everything all the damn time...  But... It's been awhile.

R.A. Salvatore did a series called 'The Crimson Shadow' that was about a thief, kinda... The first book is probably the best in this regard.

Also, Mickey Zucker Reichart (I'm probably mangling this, but I'm in a hurry), wrote the 'Godwars' series, which has a couple books about a thief, Shadow Climber and... Uh...  Shadow's Realm...  I think.

Robin Hobb's Farseer books are about an assassin, of course...

As are Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos novels... They're real high-fantasy as well..

Anyhow, I'm always looking for good books about (fantasy) rogues, as they're sometimes hard to find.  Hook me up with the intel...

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Luck in the Shadows, by Lynn Flewelling

Consider yourself hooked up.

Also, Elminster : The Making of a Mage, by Ed Greenwood.  Obviously Elminster doesn't stay a thief forever, but he is for a goodly part of the book.  Before he gets turned into a chick.

[FuSoYa]

I haven't read them in like ten-ish years but Fritz Leiber's books had the Grey Mouser.  Wasn't he like an assassin type?

Also, Gene Wolfe is one of my absolute favorites.  Fell in love with The Book of the New Sun back in HS and have never looked back.

Brandon

[spicemustflow]

Also, Gene Wolfe is one of my absolute favorites.  Fell in love with The Book of the New Sun back in HS and have never looked back.

Haha, finally, someone on the internet who heard of the New Sun, I was seriously feeling like the only one ever. Now, imagine a mud of arm quality set in Nessus...

[psionic fungus]

I'll definitely be reading BotNS at some point, but I don't think it really fits my criteria...  First, it's billed as science fiction as often as fantasy... Second, I'm not entirely sure what the rogue aspects of the series are, but nothing I've read about it seemed to indicate it had much to do with thievery, criminal organizations, or the like.   It still sounds like a great read, but what makes it good material for low-fantasy rogues (that's what I'm after)?

No one seems to want to tell stories about rogues being rogues.  They always have to be destined for greatness, or part of a secret society of do-gooders, etc.  I want to read about some real hard-core low-life scum stealing shit and killing people.  Oh well...

[Tuannon]

I always think of the upper levels of the Underhive from Necromunda.

[spicemustflow]

I'll definitely be reading BotNS at some point, but I don't think it really fits my criteria...  First, it's billed as science fiction as often as fantasy... Second, I'm not entirely sure what the rogue aspects of the series are, but nothing I've read about it seemed to indicate it had much to do with thievery, criminal organizations, or the like

The series is a strange mix between the two genres. There is advanced technology, so advanced in fact that the common people have no other choice but to regard it as magic. There is a pace travel, alien races and many other things, that completely baffle the uneducated masses. Even the protagonist, who received more than average education, although in specific area mostly, sometimes completely misinterprets the things going on around him. The earth in this series is a redneck town of the solar system, depleted of resources completely, it degenerated into some sort of medieval society. Actually, ignore the word medieval, as it associates to the more traditional fantasy like GRRM and others, and it is not something which will do justice to the sense of wonder (both yours and the protaginist's) and the inimitable atmosphere of the book.

As to the rogue part, the plot isn't about the exploits of a band of rogues, granted, but many of the primary and secondary characters are "less than honest", and the main guy, being a torturer and executioner deals with them fairly often . The description of various slums and people that inhabit them, even surpass the rinth in their vividness and misery, in fact I would rather live in the rinth than in the poor part of Nessus...

[Silverfaune]

There really is a shortage of good rogue stories.. other than the aforementioned Taltos series by Steven Brust and possibly the Robin Hobb Farseer Trilogy (the assassin isn't really the 'rinth type there, despite it being a fabulous series) the only other books I have that come to mind are the Legend of Nightfall and Return of Nightfall by Mickey Zucker Reichert, who apparently likes writing about rogues.  Tanya Huff also has a book called No Quarter about a pair of assassins but they're military assassins, not criminals.  Mercedes Lackey wrote a book in her Heralds of Valdemar series called To Catch a Thief I believe as well, which details the early life as a pick-pocket of one of her recurring characters.

I've decided to make it my personal quest to find more!

[psionic fungus]

Awesome!  MZR, I believe, is the author of Shadow Climber and Shadow's Realm, as well?

[RogueGunslinger]

The Lies of Locke Lamora, can't remember the author but a quick google search should find it for you, is a pretty sweet first book in an upcoming series about the thief to enjoys stealing a bit too much... Great read, check it out.

[Mood]

can't remember the author

Scott Lynch.

[Silverfaune]

Awesome!  MZR, I believe, is the author of Shadow Climber and Shadow's Realm, as well?

Yep.

I was actually thinking about it and I recall a book that would probably be great inspiration for the 'rinth, despite it being a Sci Fi, called Shade by Emily Devenport.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Actually, the rinth was just taken from the Ancient Quarter / Elven Market in Urik from Dark Sun like the rest of the game. Sure there might have been a little inspiration here and there from this book or that. But it's all DS primarily.

[RogueGunslinger]

Actually, the rinth was just taken from the Ancient Quarter / Elven Market in Urik from Dark Sun like the rest of the game. Sure there might have been a little inspiration here and there from this book or that. But it's all DS primarily.

I think you missed the point. Or are joking and I missed that...