Southerner Half-Elf in Labyrinth?!

[RoannTantreal]

Whaddya think?

Sounds stupid?

[Mood]

Whaddya think?

Sounds stupid?

... what?

[Dakkon Black]

If you asking if a half-elf from the south starting in the rinth is stupid? Then no. The rinth is where all those filthy breeds should be thrown. Heh, so it should be perfectly IC to be a half-elf from the rinth.

[mansa]

It would be stupid if he was wearing normal looking clothes.

The 'rinth is the ghetto.  You don't go there wearing a t-shirt and jeans.

[Yam]

Mansa, have you ever been to a ghetto?

People wear t-shirts and jeans.

[X-D]

He is canadian.

[Yam]

People in Canadian ghettos wear blazers and slacks.

In the 'rinth, people wear rags and sacks.

[Mood]

Mansa, have you ever been to a ghetto?

People wear t-shirts and jeans.

Expensive ones, usually.

[Folker]

There is a difference between a ghetto and slums. There is a difference between countries with welfare checks, frozen rent, and government assigned residences and countries with ... none of that. Bums sometimes wear jeans and t-shirts aswell. Except they were worn for two months straight, and are by now ... rags.

[Yam]

[Ourla]

LMAO, Yam.

Sorry, I have nothing productive to contribute to the discussion. 

[BlackMagic0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjoYzLBp34o

If this is the rinth.. I love it even more! 

PS I love this movie. ^^

[Akaramu]

I guess he meant to ask if a half-elf with southern city (not rinthi) accent is fine in the rinth. Yes it's fine, but keep in mind that rinthers are a tight bunch and will generally distruct people that are not 'one of them', as in who were not born there. It might be a little harder to form contacts in the rinth, and to survive, without the proper accent.

[BlackMagic0]

I guess he meant to ask if a half-elf with southern city (not rinthi) accent is fine in the rinth. Yes it's fine, but keep in mind that rinthers are a tight bunch and will generally distruct people that are not 'one of them', as in who were not born there. It might be a little harder to form contacts in the rinth, and to survive, without the proper accent.

What she said...   It perfectly fine for you to have another accent and be in the rinth, as long as you have a IC reason.. Family, Friends, Running from this or that, so forth and so on.. Just remember these words, "We 'alley-rats' don't be likin' yah south side snobs." At least, they'll be more bold when -you- are in -their home-. Think of the Rinth/south side as two different worlds, you step into one.. Everything changes, same for stepping back out.. and such.

[RoannTantreal]

I meant southerner as in Red Storm Villager.

That far south.

[manonfire]

I've always thought that the 'rinth was just the hack and slash area of Arma.

/ in before 'rinth fans shudder and convulse with the "BUT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND" sentiment
// yep, played there a couple times
/// slashies

[brytta.leofa]

Just remember that it's a filthy, smelly, dangerous place, and that your character will be not just a half-elf, but an outsider.

I would think that most everyone who wasn't born in the Labyrinth would prefer to avoid the place.

[Sokotra]

I meant southerner as in Red Storm Villager.

That far south.

I would say that Red Stormers would be very likely to end up in the 'rinth or be a part of some of the stuff that goes on there.

[Synthesis]

Or maybe there's a good IC reason for it.  Got an IC problem with it?  Do something IC about it.  As with everything, be prepared for consequences.

Oh, and STFU about recent IC events and goings-on.

Fuck, I move that this thread be moderated due to a) its contributing nothing useful and b) its verging perilously close to too much IC info.

[Aruven]

Haha. I'm sorry I had to point out the awesomeness of this.

[Kalden]

I've always thought that the 'rinth was just the hack and slash area of Arma.

These days it's the only non bunny-hugging (and fucking) area of Arma. Or maybe that's always been the case?

[Mood]

I guess he meant to ask if a half-elf with southern city (not rinthi) accent is fine in the rinth. Yes it's fine, but keep in mind that rinthers are a tight bunch and will generally distruct people that are not 'one of them', as in who were not born there. It might be a little harder to form contacts in the rinth, and to survive, without the proper accent.

Uh... what? There might be gangs and tribes that are a tight bunch, but from what I've seen/know, 'rinthi in general aren't some big happy family: they might distrust outsiders, sure, but they distrust other 'rinthi as well.

[Akaramu]

No one said they are a big happy family. 

Just that outsiders are often an immediate target (YUM! Some person none of the local groups care about!) while other rinthis are first given the benefit of the doubt of having backup in the alleys, or being useful to one of the groups.

[Kalden]

Uh... what? There might be gangs and tribes that are a tight bunch, but from what I've seen/know, 'rinthi in general aren't some big happy family: they might distrust outsiders, sure, but they distrust other 'rinthi as well.

Uh...have you read "What you know" for the 'rinth?

Read it: http://armageddon.org/intro/rinth.html

The 'rinth is more than just a home to the desperate, the unwanted, or racially undesirable. Many generations of inhabitants of the 'rinth have been born, lived and died in Tektolnes' chamber-pot of human life. It is common knowledge that darker, more unsavoury organizations have embraced the chaos and turmoil of the 'rinth and made it their home. This, coupled with the fact that the general citizenry and militia of Allanak avoid this dark ghetto, has given most 'rinthers an insular "them vs. us" attitude. A person not from the 'rinth found wandering the alleys would be viewed with a deal of suspicion. After all, why would any sane person willingly come into such a filthy and dangerous place? This semi-isolation from the rest of the city also leaves the average 'rinther with, at best, a scant knowledge of what's what outside the 'rinth. The doings of noble houses, merchant houses, templars, etc. are of little meaning to most 'rinthers, whose chief concerns are getting food in their bellies and staying alive.

[Mood]

Uh... what? There might be gangs and tribes that are a tight bunch, but from what I've seen/know, 'rinthi in general aren't some big happy family: they might distrust outsiders, sure, but they distrust other 'rinthi as well.

Uh...have you read "What you know" for the 'rinth?

Read it: http://armageddon.org/intro/rinth.html

The 'rinth is more than just a home to the desperate, the unwanted, or racially undesirable. Many generations of inhabitants of the 'rinth have been born, lived and died in Tektolnes' chamber-pot of human life. It is common knowledge that darker, more unsavoury organizations have embraced the chaos and turmoil of the 'rinth and made it their home. This, coupled with the fact that the general citizenry and militia of Allanak avoid this dark ghetto, has given most 'rinthers an insular "them vs. us" attitude. A person not from the 'rinth found wandering the alleys would be viewed with a deal of suspicion. After all, why would any sane person willingly come into such a filthy and dangerous place? This semi-isolation from the rest of the city also leaves the average 'rinther with, at best, a scant knowledge of what's what outside the 'rinth. The doings of noble houses, merchant houses, templars, etc. are of little meaning to most 'rinthers, whose chief concerns are getting food in their bellies and staying alive.

I have. You misunderstood my meaning (as I apparently did Akaramu) - all I meant was that 'rinthi don't automatically trust each other just because they both wear dark, hooded cloaks.

[Akaramu]

Then you misunderstood us because no one said they automatically trust each other.

[BlackMagic0]

Then you misunderstood us because no one said they automatically trust each other.

I have. You misunderstood my meaning (as I apparently did Akaramu) - all I meant was that 'rinthi don't automatically trust each other just because they both wear dark, hooded cloaks.

As he said, Akaramu... He misunderstood you.

[Angela Christine]

I think there is a fair amount of traffic between the 'rinth and Allanak, and a little between the 'rinth and other places.  The 'rinth is very insular, but I tend to believe this means that they would treat a person with a "southern" accent roughly the same as they would treat one with northern accent: a stranger, an unknown.   


Yes, a third generation 'rinther may well think the 'rinth is the whole world, and have no desire to try to make a better life.  People who have been there a shorter time, who can remember living outside the 'rinth (or at least the person who raised them can remember, and talked about it) may well want to get out.  Walking out is easy, but finding a place in the world outside is hard when your only skill is the ability to make a meal out of rats and weird fungi.  However, there will always be a small stream of people trying to learn valuable skills so that they can escape 'rinth, or at least earn a place in one of the more secure organizations within the 'rinth.  A few 'rinthers really have joined the 'byn because the life a mercenary is potentially better than the alternatives (the rest of them join in hopes of stealing every one's boots in the night).  There is most likely a small but steady stream of day labourers who fell on hard times and couldn't afford to live anywhere else, but routinely go south looking for work.  There would also be the less savory types (criminals, beggar, prostitutes, etc.) who head southside because of the slim pickings within the 'rinth.

There is also steady immigration into the 'rinth.  People who are running away from someone or something, people who need to disappear for a while but can't cross the desert.  A child escaping an abusive parent, a slave escaping a sadistic master, a man so far in debt to the wrong people that he has to flee or see his whole family sold into servitude to pay it off, known criminals who need to lay low for a while, and people who simply have no where else to go.  The 'rinth can't maintain it's population in isolation, without constant immigration eventually disease, starvation and violence would reduce the population to whatever the area is actually capable of sustaining, probably a village of a couple hundred people.  Many "immigrants" die off fairly quickly, but they add the resources they brought with them to the wealth of the 'rinth whether they live or die.  There are also plenty of visitors who don't plan to stay more than a day or two: drug runners, people looking to sell some "second-hand goods" away from the watchful eyes in the bazaar, thrill seekers looking to score some drugs or other illicit goods, crazy mass murderers looking to do some mass murdering (these may be over-represented in the PC population  )  and folks looking to perform all manner of shady business dealings.

The Labyrinth (or rinth) is the common slang term used for the northernmost quarter of the city of Allanak, due to its maze of alleyways that thread about the ramshackle buildings within it. Once it was merely the quarter for the lower classes of Allanak. But, over the last several hundred years as the rich became progressively richer and the poor, poorer the quarter has degenerated into a decayed and disease ridden slum.

In recent days, the 'rinth has become more than just the home to the desperate, the unwanted, or racially undesirable. Generations of its inhabitants have been born, lived and died in Tektolnes' chamber-pot of human life. Now, not only do the general citizenry of Allanak avoid this dark ghetto, but the militia of the city dare not enter as well.

The Labyrinth has formed its own culture of sorts, apart from the rest of the city. Racial or purely random violence is a common occurrence. Street gangs roam wild in the winding alleyways, looking for the lone and unsuspecting. Packs of children have been known to kill the unwary for nothing more than the hopes of a scrap of food. And darker, more unsavory organizations have embraced the chaos and turmoil of the rinth and made it their home.

The Labyrinth (often referred to as the 'rinth) is home to most of Allanak's criminal population, and most citizens avoid it like the plague. Strangely enough, the 'rinth is also where many of the city's small to medium-sized business contracts are negotiated, now that much of the economy has gone underground.

Most people wouldn't even consider going to the 'rinth.  The people who do go have a good reason. 

It also makes a difference where you go.  It isn't that strange to see an outsider visiting the public shops or taverns, there is legitimate business to be done.  Or at least illegitimate business to be done.     Outsiders wandering the far reaches of the 'rinth will probably be greeted with more suspicion (and sharp pointy things) than a fellow visiting a public tavern.

[Rarsh]

The 'rinth can't maintain it's population in isolation, without constant immigration eventually disease, starvation and violence would reduce the population to whatever the area is actually capable of sustaining, probably a village of a couple hundred people.

What is the (very) rough population of the rinth? Or, maybe I should phrase that as, what would the general range of IC halfassed estimate be for the population of the rinth, within an order of magnitude?

[Marauder Moe]

Judging by this post, I suppose a fair guess might be that there are around 50,000-100,000 people living in the 'rinth, counting all species.  Maybe more, depending on what percentage of city elves live in the 'rinth rather than Allanak proper.

[Angela Christine]

The 'rinth can't maintain it's population in isolation, without constant immigration eventually disease, starvation and violence would reduce the population to whatever the area is actually capable of sustaining, probably a village of a couple hundred people.

What is the (very) rough population of the rinth? Or, maybe I should phrase that as, what would the general range of IC halfassed estimate be for the population of the rinth, within an order of magnitude?

Physically the 'rinth is about 1/4 the size of Allanak.  It is about the same size as the Commoner's Quarter or the Templar's Quarter.  However, it seems to be much less crowded than the commoner's quarter.  You can't simply walk across it like wilderness, you have to follow the maze of alleys.  That strongly implies that there are buildings to either side of those alleys, or at least impassible patches of rubble.  Why is it composed entirely of winding alleys?  Why no roads?  Presumable there were roads, it was meant to be a new merchant's quarter, so there must have been roads big enough for wagons to pass, but they have degraded to alleys over the years.  The vast majority of people are living in abject squalor, and there is no "government" to budget for maintaining the roads and buildings.  With a few notable exceptions, no one has an interest in maintaining real estate, much less improving it.  Worse still, people are prone to scavenge materials, and probably don't know enough about construction (or care) to avoid removing essential supports or load bearing walls, so the original buildings (from before the 'rinth became a no man's land) are likely being weakened from within by scavengers, and from outside by the environment.  Not to mention the occasional magickal craziness levelling buildings just to make a point.  Many of the spaces that would contain a tenement for dozens of people in the Commoner's Quarter probably contain nothing but rubble, garbage, and a handful of squalid shanties or hidey holes carved from the rubble, housing only a few people at a time.  Gang wars/raids  could easily lead to strips of "disputed territory" being completely uninhabited.

If it was properly constructed and maintained, the 'rinth could probably house a couple hundred thousand people.  But in its current degraded condition, I would estimate that it only houses 10,000 - 25,000 people at a time.  Red Storm holds about 2000-3000 people, the 'Rinth is bigger than that, but it really more like a few large towns rather than a single city.


http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1002&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=2&sid=1b7861d62c06344d4144b9fc7d7522aa

Allanak: 350-400k, including villages
Northlands: same number, more dispersed
Luirs: 3-5k
Tyn Dashra: 2k
Tablelands: 20k in nomadic tribes (elves/dwarves)
Red Storm: 2-3k
Anyali: 2k (counting all 3 tribes)

I don't think I've ever seen an official estimate of 'Rinth population.

[Greve]

Rinthers did not evolve from rats or anything like that, they came from somewhere else even if their families' origins are so far back that they no longer remember being anything but alley-dwellers. The rinthers don't trust "outsiders", true, but I've always hated when they react to a southsider with this OMFG WTF ARE U DOING HERE, U CRAZY?! attitude. If a southside family is down on their luck and papa gets his arms crushed in a mining accident, they can't afford to stay in their tenement and might move to the rinth. When a southside pickpocket starts to have trouble with the law, he might have to move to the rinth to avoid ending up in the arena. When a northerner flees from the northern templarate and finds out that noone wants to hire him in Allanak, he might end up in the rinth mugging Bynners for a living. Rinthers came from somewhere else, even if it's as far back as their great-great-great-grandfather. Outsiders move into the alleys all the time, it just takes about a generation until they're proper rinthers.

[Maybe42or54]

Great post Greve. I tried to post what you said a few times, but never got the wording. I applaud you for your verbose..ness.

[Kalden]

Greve: If you want to be accepted in the 'rinth, start in the 'rinth. Otherwise, you're gonna catch shit for being a southsider in the 'rinth. 'rinthers have to deal with plenty of shit when they go southside, and people who want to avoid that kind of shit (by being southsiders) get their own sort of disadvantage. So expect to be hassled and (hopefully) mugged at least once. If you can't hack it, too bad.

[Maybe42or54]

Just gotta pick up the accent and look the part.

[My 2 sids]

The 'rinith isn't simply the 'slums' of 'nak.  In terms of culture the 'rinith and 'nak proper are not the same city.  I don't think the regular population of 'nak or the 'rinith interact with one another at all...  Instead, I think it's a playability thing:  there simply isn't the structure or opprotunities for PCs to stay in the 'rinith.   

[roughneck]

My advice is to listen to some, 'Notorious B.I.G.' when you play in the 'rinth.  I like it anyways.

[RoannTantreal]

The 'rinith isn't simply the 'slums' of 'nak.  In terms of culture the 'rinith and 'nak proper are not the same city.  I don't think the regular population of 'nak or the 'rinith interact with one another at all...  Instead, I think it's a playability thing:  there simply isn't the structure or opprotunities for PCs to stay in the 'rinith.   

without giving up too much IC related info in a made up scenario

a character works for somebody in the 'rinth who pays them to interact with southsiders

maybe employer doesnt have a good rep southside, either way, proof that a 'rinth resident can interact with southside and have a good IC reason to stay there.

[Gimfalisette]

That is already too much IC info, please edit. Please please please please do not talk about your current character or what that character is doing, EVER.

Edit: Thanks for editing your post.

[Simple]

Just remember these words, "We 'alley-rats' don't be likin' yah south side snobs."

Why are you bringing Dublin, Ireland into this?

[BlackMagic0]

Just remember these words, "We 'alley-rats' don't be likin' yah south side snobs."

Why are you bringing Dublin, Ireland into this?

I simply, had to my friend.. I had to...

[My 2 sids]

The 'rinith isn't simply the 'slums' of 'nak.  In terms of culture the 'rinith and 'nak proper are not the same city.  I don't think the regular population of 'nak or the 'rinith interact with one another at all...  Instead, I think it's a playability thing:  there simply isn't the structure or opprotunities for PCs to stay in the 'rinith.   

without giving up too much IC related info in a made up scenario

a character works for somebody in the 'rinth who pays them to interact with southsiders

maybe employer doesnt have a good rep southside, either way, proof that a 'rinth resident can interact with southside and have a good IC reason to stay there.

One employer does not a culture make.   

[RoannTantreal]

The 'rinith isn't simply the 'slums' of 'nak.  In terms of culture the 'rinith and 'nak proper are not the same city.  I don't think the regular population of 'nak or the 'rinith interact with one another at all...  Instead, I think it's a playability thing:  there simply isn't the structure or opprotunities for PCs to stay in the 'rinith.   

without giving up too much IC related info in a made up scenario

a character works for somebody in the 'rinth who pays them to interact with southsiders

maybe employer doesnt have a good rep southside, either way, proof that a 'rinth resident can interact with southside and have a good IC reason to stay there.

One employer does not a culture make.   

i never said there weren't other employers employing other characters, or myself even.

there is indeed an entire underground culture in the 'rinth that you wouldn't notice if you weren't involved.

[Bogre]

If there's sid in it some people will go anywhere.