Take stuff from subdued people

[Kalden]

You should be able to strip down people who are subdued. Either someone else or the subduer; I wouldn't mind allowing the subduer to do it. It sucks having to either kill the person or risk having them run away while you let them take shit off.

I know you can do this with Shadows of Isildur with the "take" command. Somehow I thought you could do it here, but maybe not.

http://www.middle-earth.us/index.php?display=help&entry=Take

And also, looking at someone's inventory should not require peek. Peek is already useful for looking inside containers. Inventory should be viewable to everyone. I might make another topic on that, but it's a related tangent on making it easier to mug people.

[brytta.leofa]

Do "steal" and "peek" work without a skill check on subdued people?

I was somehow thinking that at least steal does--but obviously I haven't been subduing people enough lately.

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't think you should be able to hold someone against their will, and strip them of their items. It's a cool idea, but doesn't make much sense realistically. I do, however, think that other people should be able to take from the subdued person.

[Troicha]

I don't think you should be able to hold someone against their will, and strip them of their items. It's a cool idea, but doesn't make much sense realistically. I do, however, think that other people should be able to take from the subdued person.

I agree with this, especially in the advent of items with which to subdue people. Once you've tied them up (toss person rope? Whatever the syntax is now should work just nicely) you can take things at your leisure.

[Marauder Moe]

Agreed, I like the idea of others being able to peek and steal from a subdued character.

However, there is the potential for having a suspected criminal subdued in a tavern and being interrogated and then some wily thief, seeing an opportunity for some zero (coded) risk loot, grabs their pack and belt and then runs.  Perhaps you only get the free peek and steal if the subduer is in the same clan as you, or maybe theres a 'nosave stealfromsubdue' flag.

[rishenko]

And, once again, we need a command to hogtie a person.  

Then leave them there...  In the desert... With a waterskin strapped hopelessly to their back.

[Mood]

While ripping off someone's armor might be a tad unrealistic, I can see being able to grab a few small things - the dagger on their belt, the rings on their fingers, their coin sack, et cetera.

[brytta.leofa]

And, once again, we need a command to hogtie a person. 

Then leave them there...  In the desert... With a waterskin strapped hopelessly to their back.

The very tall figure in a hooded greatcloak rides west.
The very tall figure in a hooded greatcloak rides west.
The very tall and thick figure in a hooded greatcloak rides west.
92/100hp, 56/100st, 60/100mv > think Oh, yes.  That went well.
You think,
  "Oh, yes.  That went well."
92/100hp, 56/100st, 60/100mv > flee
You struggle but are unable to break your thin vine rope.
92/100hp, 56/100st, 50/100mv > flee
You struggle but are unable to break your thin vine rope.
92/100hp, 56/100st, 40/100mv >
Something moves in the hot sand near your feet.
A tiny, cute, furry mouse burrows out of the sand.
92/100hp, 56/100st, 40/100mv > think (tender, and also dehydrated) Oh, how sweet.  A little mouse, out here in the desert.
Feeling tender, and also dehydrated, you think,
  "Oh, how sweet.  A little mouse, out here in the desert."
92/100hp, 56/100st, 40/100mv > think (suddenly terrified) Wait--this is Armageddon!
Feeling suddenly terrified, you think,
  "Wait, this is Armageddon!"
92/100hp, 56/100st, 40/100mv > look mouse
It's very tiny and furry and cute. It has a long, barbed tail and canine teeth that are visible even when its tiny, furry, cute little mouth is closed.
A tiny, cute, furry mouse is in excellent condition.
92/100hp, 56/100st, 40/100mv > flee
You struggle but are unable to break your thin vine rope.
92/100hp, 56/100st, 30/100mv >
A tiny, cute, furry mouse looks at you.

[Tomeglow]

And, once again, we need a command to hogtie a person. 

Then leave them there...  In the desert... With a waterskin strapped hopelessly to their back.

The very tall figure in a hooded greatcloak rides west.
The very tall figure in a hooded greatcloak rides west.
The very tall and thick figure in a hooded greatcloak rides west.
92/100hp, 56/100st, 60/100mv > think Oh, yes.  That went well.
You think,
  "Oh, yes.  That went well."
92/100hp, 56/100st, 60/100mv > flee
You struggle but are unable to break your thin vine rope.
92/100hp, 56/100st, 50/100mv > flee
You struggle but are unable to break your thin vine rope.
92/100hp, 56/100st, 40/100mv >
Something moves in the hot sand near your feet.
A tiny, cute, furry mouse burrows out of the sand.
92/100hp, 56/100st, 40/100mv > think (tender, and also dehydrated) Oh, how sweet.  A little mouse, out here in the desert.
Feeling tender, and also dehydrated, you think,
  "Oh, how sweet.  A little mouse, out here in the desert."
92/100hp, 56/100st, 40/100mv > think (suddenly terrified) Wait--this is Armageddon!
Feeling suddenly terrified, you think,
  "Wait, this is Armageddon!"
92/100hp, 56/100st, 40/100mv > look mouse
It's very tiny and furry and cute. It has a long, barbed tail and canine teeth that are visible even when its tiny, furry, cute little mouth is closed.
A tiny, cute, furry mouse is in excellent condition.
92/100hp, 56/100st, 40/100mv > flee
You struggle but are unable to break your thin vine rope.
92/100hp, 56/100st, 30/100mv >
A tiny, cute, furry mouse looks at you.

>tie <person> <rope> would be an awesome command.

[Synthesis]

As if subdue;hit wasn't bad enough.

If you want to mug someone like this, ask them to remove their pack/boots/whatever and drop them.

You can still remove items while subdued (last time I checked).  If they fail to comply, start stabbing them.  Voila! Problem solved with no potential for abuse by retards.

[Troicha]

You can still remove items while subdued (last time I checked).  If they fail to comply, start stabbing them.  Voila! Problem solved with no potential for abuse by retards.

You cannot.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I support the ability to take stuff from someone who is subdued upon certian conditions.

1. That the victim has no-save subdue on.
2. That the person taking stuff from a victim who is resisting be followed by the person who is subduing the victim.

These two options will wipe out twinkiness on a large scale.

[Synthesis]

I have a very deep-seated aversion to this.

Probably because it is much too simple to completely incapacitate someone by subduing them.

I'd want a far more robust grappling system if something like it were implemented.  Like, what, are we all cops now?  And seriously, grappling somebody only works under certain conditions...like if you're much, much larger, willing to accept a certain amount of pain in the process, your target isn't armed with something that could kill you before you get a submission, or you have an ace in the hole (a firearm and authoritaaah) that your target complies with. 

This whole "let's try subduing the guy who's standing ready with two pigstickers simply because it's unlikely that he'll kill me during the subdue lag, which makes it a relatively safe bet" business has to end, if we're going to start looting subdued victims.

Also, approach code.  Also the coded ability to deliberately -move away- from someone approaching you.  Also, the coded ability to move when someone approaches a vicinity near enough to do you harm.

Hey, there's a couple of ideas. 

> Soandso moves toward you.
> avoid soandso
>You start keeping your distance from Soanso.

and
You are standing here, at the north end of the room.
> avoid all
> You start keeping your distance from everyone.
> Soandso begins to move north.
> Soandso gets a little too close, and you back off to the east.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Code Select Expand

> Soandso moves toward you.
> avoid soandso
>You start keeping your distance from Soanso.

That, I like.

And yes, I would certianly agree about the subduing someone who has weapons. Now, I wouldn't make it impossible. First of all, I have done it in real life. If I can, I know my Zalanthans can. But it was dangerous in real life, and I think that needs to be taken into account. I think that the better the subdue skill, the less chance of being hurt during the successful subdue, however. There would never be a point at which you did not have a chance to be hurt while subduing an armed foe, though.

[Kalden]

You can still remove items while subdued (last time I checked).  If they fail to comply, start stabbing them.  Voila! Problem solved with no potential for abuse by retards.

You cannot.

Another alternative is to change this, and allow subdued people to drop things. Not sure of the unintended consequences of that, if any.

[X-D]

You can drop things while subdued...but I think only if in inventory or wielded/held. Which is too bad.

[RogueGunslinger]

If I can drops things while subdued, my thief will never lose his weapons from going to jail again.

[Kalden]

And yes, I would certianly agree about the subduing someone who has weapons. Now, I wouldn't make it impossible. First of all, I have done it in real life. If I can, I know my Zalanthans can. But it was dangerous in real life, and I think that needs to be taken into account. I think that the better the subdue skill, the less chance of being hurt during the successful subdue, however. There would never be a point at which you did not have a chance to be hurt while subduing an armed foe, though.

Definitely want to repeat this loud and clear: subduing people with weapons out needs to be damn hard. I would sorta like to see it threaded, too.

If man is unarmed:

>>
subdue man

You approach the dark-haired man, lunging at him.

You miss the dark-haired man and he reaches for you, pulling you to the ground.

You slip away from the dark-haired man.

You lunge at the dark-haired man and grab him firmly.
>>

If man is armed:
>>

You approach the dark-haired man, lunging.

The dark-haired man stabs you with his spear.
The dark-haired man misses you with his stab.

You tackle the dark-haired man, wrappping him up firmly.

>>

As with most of our commands, like backstab which sort of has a thread, you could type stop to cancel the action and back off.

[Grey Area]

If you've already got them subdued and you absolutely definitely have to go through their pockets, it's not much more of a step to just knock 'em out cold and then strip search them.

No code change required.

[Folker]

The notion about it being a no risk for missing a subdue and therefore should be attempted anyway is not as easy as it sounds. Mainly because if you try to subdue someone, you drop your weapons and therefore you end up fighting weaponless for a few rounds. Doesnt mean the risk is 'lethal' especially against any non combative character, but still present.

[Synthesis]

I didn't say it was zero risk...I said the risk would be much lower than the potential reward, if you were  then able to simply strip items off the subdued person without trying to knock them out or kill them.  This holds even if a partner is involved, although perhaps not to such a great extent.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

I don't think the person doing the subduing should be able to strip items - I think other people should have a chance to strip something, but it should also result in an increased chance for the subdue-ee to escape, since the person holding them would likely to have loosen the hold to make it practical for the stripping agent to take off their clothes.

[Synthesis]

I agree with Shiroi Tsuki on the increased chance to escape bit.

[X-D]

I think you should be able to take from a subdued person as long as you are not the one subduing.

But I also think the person doing the subdueing should be able to guard his captive.

[Kalden]

On the chance to escape: ideally, the code would be able to factor in when you're cornered. Perhaps having guarded rooms influencing your chance to escape or whatnot.

But if you aren't cornered, and you're an elf, then you should be able to dodge away just with agility. Currently it seems to be simply a factor of strength, which really sucks.