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[manonfire]

Feel free to PM me with a complete breakdown of your views on me.

I promise, Shal, you won't hurt my feelings.

[Southie]

I could have sworn that I replied to that... so I'll make it short and sweet...

I never said I was the bio police and couldn't care less.  No more are you the 'how people treat/think of gemmers' police, but look at the post you made.

There are reasons both OOC and IC for not using the bio in this way, and if you don't know them, I'll not tell you, as some of it is IC sensitive.  Ask the staff if you should use the bio as a way to send them notes instead of use it for its intended purpose, for keeping track of your character's past so that those that can read it know how your character has grown from the initial background.

Shalooonsh addressed the topic (thanks), and now we all know. If I came off as suggesting bio could be a substitute for emails, or the request tool or something, I was just being unclear. Bio should be used to record things about the character's personality and story; and my point was there are some things that from an OOC perspective that might be valid for that purpose. Sometimes something can't really be expressed in IC terms, but still gives an helpful insight on a character to the eyes of somebody reading the bio. I figure that's fine to include, and if something was out of line, staff would flag you over it.

With that said, the post I made in the other forum about gemmers was intended to open up discussion about an IC topic that I felt could use discussing. It was never about policing anyone as much as having people consider a different viewpoint about the world. I think, in the World Discussion forum, that's a perfectly valid thing to do. In contrast, your post derailed a thread (which I am now fueling and am sorry), and was about a topic that really doesn't have any basis in player-to-player discussion. Using biography incorrectly is something staff should address, because they're the ones in position to do so. It's not for a player to tell another player how to write their biographies any more than it is to tell them how to write a background, or an mdesc, or an email, or a request.

It isn't very classy, in my opinion, when players start assuming the role of telling other players what to do as if they were staff.

[spawnloser]

Yes, Shalooonsh did weigh in on it, and no I wasn't trying to act as if staff.  I was simply reminding people what staff had said about something... just like I've already said... in the first post I made... and every one since.  Don't shoot the messenger.

[Shalooonsh]

O hai, made dis 4 u.

Back.

On.

Topic.

[mansa]

I want an OOC tool in the game so that I can write things that all immortals can read and understand at their own leisure.

I want an OOC tool in the game where I can add things I want to do, the people I know, the personal quests I am on with my character.

Please?  Please?

Even more, I want it synced up with the Wish Command.  So that all my Wishes get automatically entered into my OOC tool inside the game.  I want to have the record of Player and Staff interaction to be recorded into this OOC tool.  I want a setting to make certain OOC tool inputs more 'important' or 'emergency issues' than just a blank state.

I want to know which immortal is interacting with me.

[Troicha]

Loonsh, love your ava. Please don't take this as sucking up or a derail, which is why I made it so small.

Back on Topic.

What's the staff's position on the proper sort of OOC stuff to go into bios? A few examples follow, pick among them if it helps.

Code Select Expand


Amosina is becoming increasingly suspicious of Malik, because he spends so much time locked up in his apartment with Barani, that girl he met in the Grey a few weeks ago.

What Amosina doesn't know yet is that Malik is a rogue Elkrosi, and he's really using Barani to fuel an arcane ritual to summon his Ultimate Electric Guitar. I know this from stumbling over Malik two characters ago. Amosina may develop in the direction of finding out.

Code Select Expand

Zho hates Amos with a passion, and will probably be attempting to kill him soon, all because of that incident where Amos left Zho stranded with three horny kanks. (I don't really want to PK Amos, so I'll see if I can steer away from that.)

Code Select Expand


Fayden reported to his superiors about losing the mul slave to a rutting mekillot on their recent trip to the Salt Flats, and is really, really relieved that they aren't going to kill him or throw him out of House Voryek. (He was lying; what really happened was he pushed the mul into the Silt Sea because he hated being treated equal to it.)

Did you have something else in mind that I missed?

[flurry]

spawnloser,

When you say that there's some IC info that pertains to the topic, but you can't talk about it, it can be a lot more revealing than if you just didn't talk about it at all.  This seems to come up often.

Very annoyedly yours.

flurry

[mansa]

What's the staff's position on the proper sort of OOC stuff to go into bios?


Did you have something else in mind that I missed?

None.  The Bio command is specifically an IC tool to tell the story of your character - which is why I want an additional OOC bio command.

[Lizzie]

Yeah agreed with Flurry on that. I learned quite a few things because Spawnloser said it was IC info that he couldn't talk about, and I had just assumed certain things were code issues.

Basically - if you can't say anything, then please don't.

[spawnloser]

Troicha, did you get staff officially saying that these were appropriate?

Amosina is becoming increasingly suspicious of Malik, because he spends so much time locked up in his apartment with Barani, that girl he met in the Grey a few weeks ago.

What Amosina doesn't know yet is that Malik is a rogue Elkrosi, and he's really using Barani to fuel an arcane ritual to summon his Ultimate Electric Guitar. I know this from stumbling over Malik two characters ago. Amosina may develop in the direction of finding out.

Including that you found something out two characters ago and that you're planning on having this character figure it out?  I find this inappropriate, actually.

Zho hates Amos with a passion, and will probably be attempting to kill him soon, all because of that incident where Amos left Zho stranded with three horny kanks. (I don't really want to PK Amos, so I'll see if I can steer away from that.)

Your, the player that is, motives and desires are not part of your character's background.

Fayden reported to his superiors about losing the mul slave to a rutting mekillot on their recent trip to the Salt Flats, and is really, really relieved that they aren't going to kill him or throw him out of House Voryek. (He was lying; what really happened was he pushed the mul into the Silt Sea because he hated being treated equal to it.)

This one, I have no problem with.  These are things that happened in character.  "Amos said he did this, but he was lying and actually did this."  These are things that could have been observed by someone in game.

The rule that I follow is simply that.  If a mindbender/whiran/nilazi/templar could have observed it all happening, including my character's thoughts and motivations, it can go into the background.  Otherwise it is YOU the player and not the character's history/background/motivations.

What mansa has suggested, though, an OOC bio command so that you can comment on your character for the staff and the staff alone to see?  That would be a wonderful thing and a way to keep this inclusion of OOC in something that should remain IC, your character and your character's background.

My response to flurry will be sent via PM as her response to me should have been.  Oh, and Lizzie, you learned nothing.  You guessed.

[Malken]

I only use the Bio command to keep track of my daily IRL grocery list.

[Jherlen]

What about simple OOC things in a bio, like saying, "I imagine my character talks like Antonio Banderas", or "This character's personality was based on Jabba the Hutt", or "If Armageddon used alignments, this character would be Chaotic Evil". I think that's what people were getting at. Also,

When you say that there's some IC info that pertains to the topic, but you can't talk about it, it can be a lot more revealing than if you just didn't talk about it at all.  This seems to come up often.

QFT. And,

I was simply reminding people what staff had said about something... just like I've already said... in the first post I made... and every one since.  Don't shoot the messenger.

I think you were doing more than "simply reminding", you were indeed policing. I think Southie's point was that you should not BE the messenger.

[flurry]

If the staff say the bio command should only be used a certain way, that should be enough explanation.  There's really no reason for non-staff to say anything more about the reasons for that policy, since it's a staff policy.

[Troicha]

To mansa and spawnloser:

form of a question.

[mansa]

What about simple OOC things in a bio, like saying, "I imagine my character talks like Antonio Banderas", or "This character's personality was based on Jabba the Hutt", or "If Armageddon used alignments, this character would be Chaotic Evil". I think that's what people were getting at.

Until there's a seperate command for IC and OOC stuff - I imagine things like that are perfectly fine, Jherlen.  I'd do it.  You got the mansa support.

[Adhira]

Unfortunately mansa support doesn't count for anything.

The bio command, as it stands right now, is for IC information. It is not an OOC tool, a suggestion has been made that having one in the future would be nice so we'll add that to the suggestions, thanks.

For now. Use bio for IC info. Don't use it to comment on OOC things, even if it's regarding character information etc. Imagine that bio is like the movie of your characters life. If you want staff to know about motivations, why your character talks in a certain way, something you observed with a past pc - all that kind of thing, email it in.

[Ghost]

Uhmm.. I think this is the best thread to post suggest or ideas on web?

I would like to have "Monotype Corsiva" (or anything that will look like an elegant handwriting) font added to the submission page.

[Goldberry]

One thing I would like staff to do is this...after I wish up, if an Imm has heard my request and intends to respond to it at any point in the near future, I would like for someone to say, "I heard you, I'll get back to you on that."  Usually, I re-wish every 30 minutes or so.   I don't want to be a pest, but I don't know if anyone is aware until someone responds somehow.

[Lizzie]

One thing I would like staff to do is this...after I wish up, if an Imm has heard my request and intends to respond to it at any point in the near future, I would like for someone to say, "I heard you, I'll get back to you on that."  Usually, I re-wish every 30 minutes or so.   I don't want to be a pest, but I don't know if anyone is aware until someone responds somehow.

Seconded and thirded, and I'll add something constructive, a suggestion for a "wish answering system"

We all know sometimes there just isn't an IMM available to handle a specific issue. There could be 10 imms around and listening, but none of them are in your clan and you need a clan NPC animated for something. But -we- won't know that there isn't one available. All we know is no one is answering. Maybe they're ignoring us. Maybe we -are- that pest that they just avoid. Maybe there aren't -any- IMMS logged in at all that moment. Maybe there's a clan imm, but he's just too busy to help right now. We have no way of knowing what the silence means.

So how about this.
The wish gets sent up to IMMland. The "appropriate" IMM has 60 seconds to send -something- to the player, whether it's "send amos not now" or "pkill amos" or whatever the response is.

If the game doesn't ackonwledge some sort of response within 60 seconds, it beeps whatever active overlord or highlord is logged in, just in case it's an emergency (help my character is subdued by an NPC who won't let go and won't kill her and now she's getting thirsty and I can't log out and can't use the way to get rescued and this is a remote location where no one passes by). 60 seconds later, if there's no acknolwedged response by the game of a highlord or overlord responding to the wish, the player gets an AUTOSEND:

"We're sorry, there is no one available to help you right now. We might be logged in, we just can't answer your request at the moment. Please try back no sooner than 20 minutes. Thanks."

[RogueGunslinger]

I honestly don't care if I get a response. Because if i didn't get a response, i didn't get it. Why should I care -why- I didn't get one? I have no problem re-wishing a question or re-wishing that someone need logged out Either an IMM sees it and helps me, they don't see it, or they see it and cant help me. I understand it can be frustrating not to get an answer, but I just go and play my PC and stay IC, and if the problem still persists after a while I re-wish.

[mansa]

I honestly don't care if I get a response. Because if i didn't get a response, i didn't get it. Why should I care -why- I didn't get one? I have no problem re-wishing a question or re-wishing that someone need logged out Either an IMM sees it and helps me, they don't see it, or they see it and cant help me. I understand it can be frustrating not to get an answer, but I just go and play my PC and stay IC, and if the problem still persists after a while I re-wish.

I believe that every wish should create a support ticket that the immortals should go through and answer.

I believe that every input the player has into the game should be answered in some form - whether it be Yes, No, We'll be with you in a Bit.

I believe that ignoring a playerbase from the administrator staff is a terrible thing

[Dusky]

I believe that every wish should create a support ticket that the immortals should go through and answer.

What might be interesting (and a problem with wishing as I understand it - which may well be incorrect) is that wishes are dynamic - like says and tells.  You wish it - it floats up to heaven and if an immortal is busy, not logged in or whatever, s/he'll miss it.

Now imagine wishes that did just that AND also autoposted to an Immortal "wish board" that could be checked now and again.  And imagine immortals could (as necessary) set themselves a flag that would let them know how many open wishes were on the board or when wishes reached a critical threshold.

That would be cool from a staff perspective (if your goal was to better handle wishes).

[My 2 sids]

I think it'd be nice if there was a "character creation" request tool.   A player could send a message saying what type of character they'd like to play "Military, high-ranking clan leader, shady type, etc" and then staff could respond with something like "I'm creating a plot that needs... a poision making-rinith-bard" or even "city X is in need of a good tailor".  I guess what I'm saying is, IMMs get to see the big picture and I'd like to see them using that info to help dirrect players who are looking for roles.

One fear I have about Arm.2 is that all us players are going to be plopped down, brand-spankin-new, into situations and that we're all going to have to look to IMMs to provide everything: plots, information, employment, training, etc.  ....>  thus, creating what we have in Arm.1 (an IMM driven game).   I'd like the IMMs to consider (if they haven't already) choosing some players who will have boosted stats and a bit of OOC knowedge  so that we will have muilti-level PC leaders in the city.

A second fear of mine is, like others have stated, there will still be this "us vs them" maintality.  There will be no way to sustain a PC-driven game if the players still feel IMMs don't take player's requests and observations seriously.  That includes PC interactions suddenly messed up by random NPC encounters.  If there isn't a problem, if there isn't a request for interaction... than stay out of the situation.

[mansa]

I believe that every wish should create a support ticket that the immortals should go through and answer.

What might be interesting (and a problem with wishing as I understand it - which may well be incorrect) is that wishes are dynamic - like says and tells.  You wish it - it floats up to heaven and if an immortal is busy, not logged in or whatever, s/he'll miss it.

Now imagine wishes that did just that AND also autoposted to an Immortal "wish board" that could be checked now and again.  And imagine immortals could (as necessary) set themselves a flag that would let them know how many open wishes were on the board or when wishes reached a critical threshold.

That would be cool from a staff perspective (if your goal was to better handle wishes).

Wishes are definitely Dynamic.  But, why do people wish up?

Because they have a question about something, and aren't sure of the answer.

When an Immortal answers a wish, they should also try and make the answer to the question freely available to everybody else in the future - thus trying to eliminate another wish up of the same question.

What would be great would be a knowledge base, perhaps.

However, the other thing to know is that the whole game is Dynamic itself - that what might be true for the rules in '05 might be totally wrong in '08.

And we can't have immortals -only- working on a knowledge base of the game and the structures within the game, because that does take a lot of energy and time.

What if everybody with 4 karma or more could have access to write entries into a knowledge base, based upon approval of the article?

What if everybody with 8 karma or more could "approve" or "edit" the entries that the people with 4 karma or more have written?


That way, if someone wishes up, you can first request them to check out the knowledge base, and see if the answer is in there, and if it isn't to write it themselves, or request an article written about it - and then get an answer from an Immortal.

If only you could check the knowledge base within the game itself...

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I believe that there will be players chosen from among the base with a good history of being useful, who will end up being the first leaders of the world. It's logical, and it only falls in line with the rest of what's been going on. They are obviously aware that some players will be needed to get a PC run game off the ground.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone should be terrified of the Imms giving us a foot up at the start. I'm confident that they have the ability to step in and step right back out.