New Player help

[Lizzie]

I would like to say welcome to the newest of the newbies, people who have come to Armageddon in the last month. I think this is great, that we have had so many, that I have noticed and RPed with.

I wish to offer a suggestion to the staff though, because it seems that many of these new players have no understanding at all of syntax, and the most common challenge for them seems to be communication. This is NOT directed at any specific player, though one of you might think so. You merely reminded me that I meant to post this awhile back, and you are definitely not the first, or the only, one to have trouble with communication syntax.

I would like to see a change in the account -and- application approval e-mail that goes out to players. I would like to see just one extra sentence added, somewhere near the very top. The sentence would be something like:

Please remember your first moments in the game might be met with other characters; you will need to know about talk, say, and tell, before you even log in for the first time.

With a hyperlink on the words talk, say, and tell, to their appropriate help files. I can remember how frustrating it is to be excited about playing my very first character, logging in, and not knowing that "tell" was the appropriate way to respond to someone who was talking to me, and not knowing I could target their keyword since their name didn't appear on the screen, and "greet brown-haired" didn't work

The reason I suggest it, is because the current e-mails link to the main site, the helper page, and the GDB. And not everyone wants to have to wade through all three in attempt to find out -which- of those things will provide them with the first few things they need to do upon logging into the game. If you add just one sentence with the verbal commands, I think it would be a HUGE relief to new players who are genuinely clueless on how to talk to other PCs.

It will also save the rest of us from having to break RP and take time out to tell all these wonderful new players that they're doing something wrong, telling them where to find the right way, telling them the right way, and directing them to helpers. I find it frustrating, from the other side, to spend so much time helping people in-game on things they should have known about before logging in. But I don't want to ignore their need for help, and I don't want to seem snobbish, or drive them away by letting them continue doing inappropriate things until someone else corrects them, thus showing them that they've been doing it "wrong" for hours, or worse, days or even weeks. Pointing out just those few verbal communications commands will go a long way in preventing frustration on the part of people who already know the commands, and on the part of new players who don't know them and don't know that there are even special commands they should know and use.

I apologize for this long-winded post. It's been on my mind for a few months now, and in the last month it's become somewhat common to see new players who really need help with syntax and I just don't have time or energy to spend my RP time on OOC situations, but I find myself often the only PC in the same room as the new player and I really don't want the new player to feel lost.

[Marauder Moe]

If you don't like to break character to educate new players, don't.  Teach by example.  They'll figure it out.

[Lizzie]

...and when the new elf who doesn't speak sirihish, shows up at the bar of humans, fresh from chargen and you see this:

The red-headed elf walks in and smiles. "Hello!"

How do you lead by example, if you -shouldn't- be able to understand him, because he doesn't speak your language? IS he speaking your language? How do you know he doesn't also know sirihish, if he isn't using the code to communicate? How do you respond to him? Or - do you respond? And if you don't respond, how will he know you are leading by example? If you DO respond by saying, "I don't understand you" and it turns out he has "linguist" as a sub-guild and you SHOULD have understood him, how is -that- leading by example? And if you RP that you -do- understand him, and it turns out he really doesn't know sirihish, how would -that- be leading by example?

Sometimes you have to break character and go OOC, because sometimes, the new player won't know that you are leading by example. Sometimes they don't notice the difference. THey shouldn't have to deal with the embarrassment of being corrected but then again, they should have read up about it before logging in. On the other hand, there is so much to read, how can they know -which- things they need to know immediately, if no one points them in the right direction, before they ever show up with their character for the first time?

[Mood]

Uhm... I'm pretty positive that the only elves that don't get sirihish are desert elves... and by the time you can roll up a desert elf, you should have a decent grasp on the game.

[X-D]

Nitpicky Mood, you know that is not the point.

Who cares if the example is elf or tregil. Point being, You can use say/talk/tell etc all you want, but untill you actually go OOC I notice you are using emote to talk, might help if you checked out the help files for emote, talk, tell, say, ask. They will simply think you are a really fancy emoter.

I agree with Lizzie on this point actually.
And on the topic, having played MANY long lived and ranking bynners, I can tell you, there have been HUNDREDS of newbies I've dealt with who, after literally DAYS of play still were not picking up on "lead by example" And were, in many cases, very grateful when helped OOCly, yet embarrased that they were screwing up so long, and a bit upset that nobody pointed it out to them sooner.

[staggerlee]

If someone doesn't know there's a follow or assist command it's kind of pointless to keep shouting "When I say follow me to the fight and jump in and  assist me, I mean follow me to the fight and jump in and assist me"

That works great for players that know the game, but is way too subtle for people just learning the syntax.  Believe it or not, muds aren't very newbie friendly. At all.  I had the joys of learning that when I was twelve instead of now, but I'm sure there are intelligent adults that'd be great to have around if the game was a bit more welcoming.

Who knows, maybe adding a couple links or something to the acceptance email might help, and we'll get one more player that'd otherwise be off dropping money on a mmorpg or something.

[Rhyden]

I agree.
I agree.
I agree.

With Staggerlee.

[Agent_137]

helpers exist for a reason.


IM ME FOR INSTANT GRATIFICATION.
(or answers)

[Dalmeth]

I just took a quick look through the intro section of the website and found little to no information regarding the commands for communication.  I personally think that part of the website could be reworked to be more structured.

As a prelude to that, a direct pointer to the necessary commands would be a help.  Looking through the help files while in the game is not the most exciting thing for a new player, especially with all the reading they probably have done beforehand.  They just want to play.  Also, if they are having trouble understanding the way the game works, a solid knowledge of the basic commands will help them explain their situation.  For instance, a helper might suggest a new player use talk to drill an NPC for information.  However, the new player doesn't know the talk command has any other use, so when they sit at the bar and start chatting up the bartender, who happens to have nothing available through the talk command, they get very confused.     Just a little bit more direction can go a long way.

[X-D]

It is probobly great that there are helpers.

But, even if I was a complete newbie to muds, I (and I'm sure there are others) would never contact one or ask for help. For whatever reason.

The docs exist, its a simple matter to add a couple more links. Comunication help files SHOULD be linked with the email...Hell, its IS an RP mud after all.

And what is anybodies problem with adding help whereever possible, specialy if its automated?

[Morfeus]

I agree with adding the information.

The MUD has like hundred and one things which are based on OOC knowledge of commands. Making things easier for newbies is -always- good thing. We need newbie. So yeah, what is the problem?

[Simple]

I'm not exactly around a long time myself, but I recently played with someone brand new (first character) who had it perfect. Well done whoever you are.

[My 2 sids]

Help or don't help as much as you like... but remember you represent the rest of us.

No different than a bug, if you see an obvious OOC mistake/flaw than handle it OOCly.   Even if that means removing your character from the room, OOCing, or Wishing up/ introducing them to another PC.


People are quick to point to the Docs.  Well, I was one newbie who actually studied the docs and kept the command prompts right there by my side.  HOWEVER, there's a lot the docs don't say (expensive to buy every meal in a bar) and being in game is just flat out different than reading the docs and such.

[Maybe42or54]

I think it is better when someone is having a rough time, to assist them, so they can get past that part and start enjoying the game before we all die.

[Lizzie]

The same as what Simple says. I've seen some new people get it right, and even go so far as to ooc to let me know they're new and to please bear with them because they might appear awkward or slow for awhile.

I was in the same boat when I was new. I had some experience with mushes, and with diku muds, and a few pay-to-plays, so it was really just a matter of knowing about the "extended" syntax for this particular mud that most dikus don't have (such as the emoting system). I knew how to look up help files, and I knew from past games that "communication" is often a help file itself. I was lucky, because not all games have the kind of cross-referencing that Arm has.

I did find the mechanics doc to be very useful, but it took reading that it existed here on the GDB to even know it existed, and how to find it. It's exactly where it should be, and turns out it's easy to find. But only if you know it exists, and what's in it, and that you have use for it. A link to that would be pretty sweet too, for those "welcome to Armageddon" e-mails.

[Bebop]

I agree with Lizzie, the game is not very newbie friendly.  I have been wanting to make my own newb help site for awhile, I've just never had the time to get around to it.

[JustAnotherGuy]

I'm only a few weeks old here, and well...  While Mud Connector says the game is Newbie Friendly, eh...  If I didn't have a friend bring me to this MUD and show me what to read, I can definately see where others would have issues with commands.  I'm a MUD vet so I know where to search, I know where to find the information, but I also believe that any "Intro" or "Newbie" Section of a website should have links to that AWESOME help file listings you guys have on basic communication.

I didn't know about TELL when I first joined, I didn't know about ~tall and I'll be honest, I don't know all the little extras that can be used in an EMOTE yet.  I had to learn the Do's and Don'ts of this mud from others, proper ettiquite, and a lot of the basics.  Not to toot my own Horn, but I've been working in the Gaming Industry for about 5 years now (primarily volunteer, some paid) and I know you wish to keep quality.  (Cheers to that as the mud is definately quality)  It's hard to keep quality when you wish to give a total RP/mud newb easy access to the information, while a dedicated RPer will search it out.  *raises hand*

I guess what I want to stress is that there are some basics that are missing and I actually found it hard to find a single helper at the time that I was hoping to play.  While it's nice to E-mail and get a responce back, that doesn't mean I'm gonna sit and wait for it.  The initial experence is what makes or breaks a new player.  This is all such a touchy subject and this mud has been around for quite a few years, but in these days where muds are not really that popular, we need to grab onto those players that come, check the mud out, and then if there interest is peeked, they stay.  Now, I could talk all day about ways to fix that, but I don't believe that is where this conversation is at at the moment.

One last thing, I would like to say thank you to all the players that DO try to help the new player that joins.  I had a few people go into OOC just to coach me and get me adjusted to things.  There are quite a few helpful people out there though Zalanthas is so unforgiving.  And also thank you for such a great game...  I'm addicted already.

[Mood]

This MUD is definitely difficult for new players, and I think that efforts to make it a bit easier would be a good thing. I've only been playing since late May, myself, but before that, I had tried at least three times over the years to 'get into' Arm. All were utter failures, and I gave up in frustration.

[Agent_137]

we have great support for the type of people who want to read the entire manual before installing a new game, and then again right afterwards. (me.)

we have great support for the type of people who don't want to try to figure things out on their own or read docs, they just want to ask someone how to do something and be told and be done with it. (not me, but i'm a helper to these people.)

We have ZERO support for EVERYONE ELSE. There is no complete but succint walkthrough. And that is what we need. I started one, but I honestly would rather just play the game than work on the walkthrough.

But if anyone wants to take up that torch, please PM or IM me and I'll feed you all the work i've done and all my ideas and you can take what you please.

[Silverfaune]

As a shiny new player who is trying to get through the myriad of deaths and small embarrassments that make up starting on a mud that is SO intense, I have to say a big thanks as well to those people who are willing to step out once in a while to help someone who is obviously lost, and point them in the right direction.

Like others, I also found it hard (still do to a degree) to communicate right off the bat.  I read the docs.  I have NOT read the entire list of helpfiles, but I am slogging through them.   I have also browsed the forums for the last month and picked up some tidbits there.  After all that, if I didn't have a friend get me into this and support me through this phase, I probably would have given up by now since I don't have an awful lot of time to try and muddle through entirely on my own, and really, I'd rather learn what I need as fast as I can so I can focus on roleplaying with all of the fabulous rp tools available here, than spend the next 3 months trying to master basic game mechanics.    

While some people say "lead by example", that really only works if the example needed is an example on how best to use commands you already know!  I love watching people use the many facets of the emote system, but until I learned the whole ~ vs %,  () vs [] bits, watching the best rp in the game wasn't going to do more than make me feel.. well, like a newb!

Maybe the docs are there and I missed them, but I spent a fair bit of time in the game feeling like an idiot and sure someone was going to kill me for ignoring them, not knowing things like the difference between say and tell, and the command emotes to add into says so that I dont' have to emote a say just to put body language into it.  I'm still nervous about things like etiquette and social rules that aren't covered in "What your character knows", yet I know my character would know them because they're basic to life in Zalanthas (or whatever city).  I'm still learning things that would be REALLY helpful like the "stop" command (learned about that one yesterday... too late!) and had no idea about "assist" when it really counted - even though I could see people jumping into battles to help others, I just had to do it the old fashioned way by just hitting random things.  These commands take 2 seconds to tell someone ooc, and I like to think it doesn't reflect badly on the quality (or future!) of a player if they haven't managed to figure out syntax intuitively.  In the mud where I rp'd prior to this I always found it was easier, more helpful and more productive in the long run to take a minute to give a bit of helpful advice than to stare blankly at someone or cause a huge scene in character because of some ooc gaffe or plea for help (I'm sorry, I didn't know how to sheathe my weapons, and I forgot how to tell what language I was speaking! *coughs*)

I did run into one pretty decent guy, however, who I assume pegged me for a real newbie and yet managed to give me some guidance without ever leaving character or lowering the quality of the rp I was having (at least from my point of view!).  Kudos to him.  Yep, I finally learned about kudos too!

Sorry for the long post *blush*  I've had a lot of opportunities to think about what I don't know recently!

[Gimfalisette]

Silverfaune, we're glad you're here. Thank you for persevering through the extremely steep learning curve.

And you know what? Don't stress about it. It's OK. You'll get it.

I am still learning things all the time, myself. I still screw up things my character "should" know. Oh well.

[Silverfaune]

Silverfaune, we're glad you're here. Thank you for persevering through the extremely steep learning curve.

And you know what? Don't stress about it. It's OK. You'll get it.

I am still learning things all the time, myself. I still screw up things my character "should" know. Oh well.

Thanks!  I'm hanging in.  I'm not stressing over the um.. 7 characters in approx. 15 played hours... I figure I can maybe make a record someday  I am learning really fast what not to do, however *grins*

[Zalanthan]

I've moved on to my second character now, but I first started playing the game over a year ago.  I searched mudconnect for roleplay-required and found the only match I was interested in.  While awaiting approval (and at the game's NUMEROUS suggestions) I read through the entire website's documentation; while it may be lacking or dated in some areas, it was more than adequate to get me started.  I don't have any RL friends who play and I've never chatted with a Helper but I had no problem picking up the advanced syntax - this has everything to do with quality documentation.  At the very least, my suggestion would be to simply OOC:

HELP TOPICS
HELP NEWBIE
HELP COMMUNICATION

[Silverfaune]

I've moved on to my second character now, but I first started playing the game over a year ago.  I searched mudconnect for roleplay-required and found the only match I was interested in.  While awaiting approval (and at the game's NUMEROUS suggestions) I read through the entire website's documentation; while it may be lacking or dated in some areas, it was more than adequate to get me started.  I don't have any RL friends who play and I've never chatted with a Helper but I had no problem picking up the advanced syntax - this has everything to do with quality documentation.  At the very least, my suggestion would be to simply OOC:

HELP TOPICS
HELP NEWBIE
HELP COMMUNICATION

While waiting for approval I dealt with being the full time mom of a rambunctious toddler who thinks Thomas the Tank Engine might be more fun if viewed before well before dawn (it's not).  Still read the docs and boards as much as I could, but sadly I must have missed a lot.  I'm sure there are others in my boat as well.

... mind you, in a year's time I'm sure I'll have all the syntax worked out too  Hopefully before, I'm hoping this character actually manages to last a bit longer!

[Zalanthan]

Considering you're already on the GDB, I wouldn't worry about anything; most newbs take a long time before discovering it.  For that very reason, my post was directed towards the OPs documentation/website concerns and their reluctance to OOC newbies.  I think all of us can manage to OOC the appropriate help file the new player could benefit from reading - it's only a minor inconvenience/distraction that would help someone else a great deal.

[Lizzie]

Zalanthan, it would only be a minor inconvenience, if it wasn't such a common thing lately. Perhaps you haven't run into them as much as I have. But I usually spend a minimum of 20 minutes every single day I play helping a new player who doesn't have the first idea of how to talk, how NOT to talk, how to move from room A to room B, that they are in the city of Allanak at the moment, that their characters couldn't possibly have been cow-herds on a ranch, etc. etc. etc.

When you only have 2 hours one day to spend playing, 20 minutes is a huge chunk of time. Not a minor inconvenience. That is a minimum. I have spent over an hour with new players before, and recently, and it saddens me greatly that a *whole lot* of that time could be spent roleplaying rather than having a full-blown OOC discussion, if only they had known which files to look for, when the received their account approval e-mail.

Edit: When I mention the time spent, I mean the time spent in OOC discussion within the game, and not RPing.

[Morfeus]

Edit: When I mention the time spent, I mean the time spent in OOC discussion within the game, and not RPing.

Strangerly, I never ever spent that long time in pure OOC discussion IG. Unless we count setting up a new noble-char with IMMs. Seriously, ceasing RP to discuss things OOCly is, IMHO, not the best solution. I prefer to keep RPing - yeah, point out the syntax they miss or documention which I think might help them, or tell them about the cool Helpers page - but that's all. If you step out the character to have OOC discussion, it doesn't give the "true" impression about the game as well.

I mean, seriously. Helpers are here for a reason. I -like- answering questions about syntax. The newbie you talk to might need more help next day and a bit another day and might expect -everyone- around to keep OOCing to him, which, IMHO, is wrong. There are Helpers even in off-peaks, trust me. Don't make their existence secret just because you think you can handle one or two (or twenty) questions in OOCs IG.

[Vettrock]

I try to help our noobs when I see and recognize them, and only once do I remember more than a few times of OOC.  One time fairly recenting, I has someone tell me they were having trouble putting a pouch on their belt, and it look me about 5 minutes to figure it out and I've been playing a while.  Not the most intuitive in my opinion.

[Reiloth]

I feel there is no problem going OOC once, or twice, saying:

ooc: Help communcation, help newbie, help sit, help tables.

And then going right back into RP, to leave no room for OOC questions from the n000b.

When I was a new player, this is exactly what some Northern Templar did for me, and it saved my life (Literally).

A blurb in the welcome email might be nice. Shouldn't be that hard to do.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

When I note a player having problems, I only do one OOC - my username on AIM. That way, I can guide that PC OOCly without destroying my IC fun.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Yeah, the AIM thing is nice, it's really nice to talk out of the game about it.  That's the way I do things to keep in touch with those I'd like to continue RPing with.