Contact Poll

[Krath]

Should everyone start out with max Contact? I believe they should, especially if it is something
they would have been using all their life. Seriously. Please give your reasoning behind your decision so
we can discuss. No Flames please.

[Krath]

Im seeing a lot of No answers but no one is explaining to me why it wouldnt be IC for you
to have it at max if your pc has used it up to that point in their life.

[Coat of Arms]

I'm not sure what to think. On one hand it has always annoyed me to no end how badly you suck in the beginning. Even after they improved it a bit so that contact's cost starts at 13 stun instead of 25 or whatever it used to be, it's still just a nuisance that serves no apparent purpose. On the other hand, what are you going to do about the barrier skill if everyone starts with maxed contact? It would make the skill practically obsolete for everyday purposes.

This is how I think contact could be favorably changed:

1) Give the skill a much better chance to succeed from the beginning. Not necessarily 100%, but it should be possible for even a new character to contact someone without spending whole stun pools doing so.

2) Make skill increases lower the stun cost the way it currently does.

3) Make it so that skill level and chance to succeed are not directly related so that you'll still need to have a better contact skill than a target's barrier skill to get through it.

[Krath]

I'm not sure what to think. On one hand it has always annoyed me to no end how badly you suck in the beginning. Even after they improved it a bit so that contact's cost starts at 13 stun instead of 25 or whatever it used to be, it's still just a nuisance that serves no apparent purpose. On the other hand, what are you going to do about the barrier skill if everyone starts with maxed contact? It would make the skill practically obsolete for everyday purposes.

This is how I think contact could be favorably changed:

1) Give the skill a much better chance to succeed from the beginning. Not necessarily 100%, but it should be possible for even a new character to contact someone without spending whole stun pools doing so.

2) Make skill increases lower the stun cost the way it currently does.

3) Make it so that skill level and chance to succeed are not directly related so that you'll still need to have a better contact skill than a target's barrier skill to get through it.

I like this idea. So Yes' are for Coat's idea not max contact

[Marauder Moe]

Not every Zalanthan uses the Way frequently.

Not every PC does either (though I'll admit, most do).


I actually think that it should take a lot longer to max contact than it does now.  Like, even a noble's aide should take, say, 25 days of playtime to be able to Way easily while standing up.  It's too convenient as is, and I think the fact that this thread is here is further evidence of that (many apparantly think that max contact is something everyone should end up having).  That's another topic, though, and one that's been done to death already.

[brytta.leofa]

I voted "yes," meaning "it should start with a much lower chance of failure-to-connect."

But I would actually be fine with the *effort* (stun loss) staying the same.  It doesn't have to be something you do whilst sparring.

[NoteworthyFellow]

Not every Zalanthan uses the Way frequently.

Not every PC does either (though I'll admit, most do).


I actually think that it should take a lot longer to max contact than it does now.  Like, even a noble's aide should take, say, 25 days of playtime to be able to Way easily while standing up.  It's too convenient as is, and I think the fact that this thread is here is further evidence of that (many apparantly think that max contact is something everyone should end up having).  That's another topic, though, and one that's been done to death already.

I, personally, would love it if the Way was much less prevalent than it is now, and literacy was more common.  Not every commoner would be literate, but the wealthy (i.e. very successful merchants, clan higher-ups, etc.) would be expected to be able to read and write, and this would allow for written correspondence and fun PC jobs as couriers.  While I understand the Way's use from a playability standpoint, I agree with Marauder Moe that the Way is far too convenient as it is.

With literacy, one would be able to do such things as leave notes for people (who could pass down the messages to the illiterate ones), send letters from city to city, and generally coordinate meetings in a different (and, I think, more interesting) manner than simply "contact Amos; psi Hey buddy where ya at?"  A better city design, with a more-or-less "central" area to each city, would also help make the Way unnecessary.  If you're looking for someone in your clan and they're not either somewhere around the more centralized area (sort of like how Allanak's three major taverns are all very close to one another, and near the Bazaar) or in your clan's designated headquarters, they're probably busy doing something else anyway.  Maybe make it so you can leave a message with a bartender at a pub to relay to someone when they walk in.  For example:

Code Select Expand

> talk bartender message Amos

The generic bartender asks you, in sirihish:
"What do you want me to tell Amos?"
You can leave a message to tell Amos to:
meet
do a task
miscellaneous

> talk bartender meet

The generic bartender asks you, in sirihish:
"Where do you want Amos to meet you?"

> talk bartender my apartment

The generic bartender asks you, in sirihish:
"Okay, I'll tell Amos to meet you at your apartment.  When?"
The generic bartender can hold this message for 1 to 10 days, or you can specify a specific time and day after which the message will no longer apply.

> talk bartender high sun Detal

The generic bartender says to you, in sirihish:
"I'll tell him to meet you there at high sun on Detal."

You slip the bartender a few 'sids for his trouble.

Then, later...

Code Select Expand

You walk into a Generic Bar.

Turning to you as you walk in, the generic bartender says to you, in sirihish:
"Hey, Clannie was lookin' for ya.  Wants ya to meet him at his apartment at high sun on Detal."

[manonfire]

No.

Contact is so ridiculously easy to train, and after a few play sessions, failing a contact is just an occasional inconvenience.

Also, it could be suggesting that the moment you take over your character's life, he's taking his first steps into a larger world.

[Forest Junkie]

What about hunt? My ranger has been a hunter all his life, so he should like, have max hunt, skin, dual wield, parry, archery. Oh, I almost forgot, he also mastered the art of sneaking and hiding.

Hell, let's just let all our new characters start out max, or at least the ones that have been 'x' for their entire life.

On topic: It takes 2-3 days played to get contact decently high. Just deal with the growing pains and steadily work it up like you do the rest of your skills.

[Gimfalisette]

Contact needs to stay the way it is. My character's entire concept is based on seducing new characters into wanting to Way me, then having them knock themselves out while talking to me, so I can steal their stuff.

Actually, I wouldn't mind characters starting with a little boost, but not maxed.

[Vettrock]

I put I don't care, but What I would have selected was higher than it is now, yes.  Maxxed, no.  Perhaps it should be a little less damaging to your stun, or a higher sucess rate, but still the large stun cost.  Either way, I do think it should be increased. However I think it good that there is room for improvement from new character to old-timer.

[Krath]

I put I don't care, but What I would have selected was higher than it is now, yes.  Maxxed, no.  Perhaps it should be a little less damaging to your stun, or a higher sucess rate, but still the large stun cost.  Either way, I do think it should be increased. However I think it good that there is room for improvement from new character to old-timer.

Exactly. I probably should not have put max down! But it Should be higher than where ever
it currently starts at.

I also noted that someone in an above post stated that not all Zalanthans use the way that frequently.
I do not disagree or agree, but what is the staff's view of that? It The way something only the
SIGNIFICANT citizens (being pcs) of Zalanthas experiences and what makes them stand out,
or is it a normal form of communication. I do not know how when dealing with communication
unless stated in the docs, how one form of communication is used more or less than another if
it is common for everyone.

[Simple]

Maybe people are aware of the skill and don't use it. Maybe people have heard of mindbenders and don't like to tinker with that shit.

Bad analogy, but go with me...

Luke Skywalker has to train his skills when he learns he has the potential to learn the force.

Leia has the potential but never uses it.

Tell me if I'm wrong, I like to be abused.

[Krath]

Maybe people are aware of the skill and don't use it. Maybe people have heard of mindbenders and don't like to tinker with that shit.

Bad analogy, but go with me...

Luke Skywalker has to train his skills when he learns he has the potential to learn the force.

Leia has the potential but never uses it.

Tell me if I'm wrong, I like to be abused.

<Forest Junkie insert sarcastic, trying to get underneath your skin comment here>

So then do we assume that it is only common for the significant citizens of Zalanthas to use
regularly?

[Forest Junkie]

I say it's best to not [ass]ume anything. I'm still wondering why it's such a bad thing to have to work up the contact skill just like every other skill in your tree.

If you want to make the argument that it should start with a boost because they've had it their entire life, then apply said logic to the other skills they possess in their tree. That is, of course, if they have "known and practiced" these skills their entire life.

[nyrk]

I kinda like the idea of getting rid of commoner use of the Way.
You would have to augment with other methods of meeting up with people, like the bartender method, and leaving notes, etc, all those sound good.
Another option would be to have NPC messangers.  Say your clan had a lacky kid around that you could send off to gather up your members.

ie
ask Sparky,  Go find any members in the Gaj or Barrel.
Sparky salutes, and scurries off.
or
ask Sparky, Go find Amos at the Barrel.
Sparky salutes, and scurries off.

There could be NPC's that loiter in the bar for these tasks as well, and you would have to tip them... but some messages would be significant enough that you would use a PC carrier.

Or even carrier pigeons that clans would carry to send small written notes back to base.  reporting on mission status, etc.  

Magickers of course would have flaming little dragons, or faeries.  or perhaps proper familiars....

Messangers could be killed, intercepted. etc.

Immagine that your guild hall is under siege.  currently you can call in all your troups from the safety of your besieged castle.

Now, send Poor sparky out from your beseiged castle,....  You get the idea.

[Simple]

Maybe people are aware of the skill and don't use it. Maybe people have heard of mindbenders and don't like to tinker with that shit.

Bad analogy, but go with me...

Luke Skywalker has to train his skills when he learns he has the potential to learn the force.

Leia has the potential but never uses it.

Tell me if I'm wrong, I like to be abused.

<Forest Junkie insert sarcastic, trying to get underneath your skin comment here>

So then do we assume that it is only common for the significant citizens of Zalanthas to use
regularly?

People who've decided to tinker with it, start practicing it, and get good at it, others that don't use it often aren't so good. Go with that and it works, I guess.

[Angela Christine]

You've already retracted "max", but a potential problem with that could be certain skill trees.  Do psionicists branch anything off Contact?  I don't know!  But if they do, starting with higher Contact skill might have unintended effects.

[Zendri]

I've always felt that the psionic system was the single most brilliant idea in all of Armageddon's history - strictly from a game design perspective.

However, I'm very much against anything that would make psionics easier, because I think players abuse the hell out of psionics currently.  I don't think it should be used as a cell-phone, as an improved form of whisper, to rat out your PC's killer, or, worst of all, to facilitate an information trade that is almost completely undetectable.

Except in the case of psionicists, it should be primarily used to facilitate roleplay.  Use it to confirm that people are online, to arrange a meeting time/place, or to pass on a brief message... but then have those important (or un-important) talks in person.  Get out of the estate, huddle in an alleyway, get a Byn escort across the desert, or mysteriously die without telling someone that it was the one-armed man.

Stop psionic abuse now!  Interact with your fellow players in person.

[nyrk]

One aspect of the way is determining who's online and who isnt't
This is an OOC issue, that is dealt with using an IC mechanism.
Basically. If we did away with, or minimized, commoner use of the Way I would wholely support a completely OOC method of determining who's online, simply using who <name> to check.

What's lacking and I find frustrating, an ingame mechanism to leave a message.  Leaving a message at the bar, or sending letters would help with this, and allow coordination of ingame activity to occur ingame.  Curretly Clan activities are coordinated in the GDB forums.

It could be simple,  You log in, and go to get something to eat....
The grubby cook says to you:
  "Sargent Blabber was lookin fer ya,  Sounded pissed. Said he'll deal with ya when he gets back. but you better have the ticket for that inix...."

you do a Who Blabber and see if he's on, so you don't waste time trying to locate someone you can't

Yes I know, there are ingame boards. but they are clunky to use, and there are always ancient messages, and are completely public.

[Rindan]

If I were to make a really simple change to way, it would be to increase the chance to connect, increase the time it takes to connect, and increase the cost to talk over the way to the point where the best you can hope for is to blast out a message or two and then break.

I understand the OOC utility of the way.  In a world where you have only 3 clan mates that actually talk back, using the way to organize helps keep people sane.  That said, I really dislike how the way can become a super sekret long distance communication device.  If you have business to conduct, I think it should be done face to face.  If you can't make it face to face, send a messenger or emissary in your stead.

So, up with the OOC utility of the Way by making it easier to connect.  Down with the IC utility of the way by making it impossible for non-mind benders to do anything other than blast out a simple message or two.

[psionic fungus]

I also agree that the best solution is to make it easier to successfully find a mind... I would add that you should have to know the target's -NAME- to get this bonus.  I would also support an increase in the stun cost for low skill-level psionic communications, if it were made easier to actually successfully make the initial contact.

[Angela Christine]

If you keep the starting skill for Contact the same, but make it easier to successfully achieve contact, then it will become more difficult to improve in skill.  If you can't improve in skill, you may be stuck lying down to use contact for the rest of your life.  Hmm.

[psionic fungus]

I highly doubt this would be a problem.

Less failure =/= no failure.

[Callahan]

Is there some kind of physiological reason behind the idea that a person's name should better enable psionic contact?

Is a person's identity really that hinged on what they are called?

[Agent_137]

sure, characters should start with max contact.

but only if contact has it's maximum skill level for mundanes cut to be 20% of what it is currently.

I don't know who this Zendri fellow is, but i agree completely:

However, I'm very much against anything that would make psionics easier, because I think players abuse the hell out of psionics currently. I don't think it should be used as a cell-phone, as an improved form of whisper, to rat out your PC's killer, or, worst of all, to facilitate an information trade that is almost completely undetectable.
Except in the case of psionicists, it should be primarily used to facilitate roleplay.

[Agent_137]

Is there some kind of physiological reason behind the idea that a person's name should better enable psionic contact?

Is a person's identity really that hinged on what they are called?

Huh? This seems off topic. You can use multiple keywords now to contact someone, so having a name isn't nearly as critical as it used to be.

now, if we're going to talk about "true name" issues, that should definitely be a different thread.