Watch the door, whouldja?

[FantasyWriter]

I think it would be nice to be able for the primary renter of an apartment to be able to bar the door from the inside against other tenants.  This could be used for several reasons, especially for leaders of small groups:

    1. To carry on business transactions without being interrupted by your underlings.
    2. Be able to discuss an underling's "secret gift" that the rest of your clan doesn't know about it.
    3. Dealing with your closet-case ungemmed friend that you pay or barter with for his services.
    4. Private meeting. (No, I'm not repeating myself, I mean REALLY private meetings with that certain someone).
    5. My personal favorite:

Code Select Expand


The traitorous, brown haired human enters from the west.

You say, in sirihish:
    "Been scraping a little of my profit off the top, eh?"

The traitorous, brown haired man lowers his head, looking at his feet.

>bar door
You bar the door preventing anyone from entering or leaving it.

>draw mace
You brandish your obsidian-headed mace.

>sap traitorous
You sap him on the head, and he crumples to the ground.

>grin
You grin.

[Maso]

I like it. Cool little detail anyway.

[psionic fungus]

I've often thought it would be useful to bar doors from the inside.  The number one reason I have for this is because it makes it so you can only (steathily anyhow, I would like to see door breaking as well) burglarize someone when they are logged in but not home (or, for NPCs, just not home).

[BuNutzCola]

Though I like the idea, in some cases it could be abused. For instance in the above poster's example of blocking the door shut when the owner is not logged in, prevent thievery.

Do you bar your front door closed when you head to bed at night? Nah. For most, it's left unlocked. For some, it's the knob lock, and for even fewer is the deadbolt used.

Not only that but how many Zalanthan dwellings are/would be equipped with such things? I could understand maybe the local tavern having a door barred, or a merchant house, but your average shitty apartments where most tenants (at least pc ones) oft die within the first term of rental? Eh.

Also, would this imply joe pickpocket could step into the nearest place and bar the door shut against the legions of soldiers following along?

I do like the idea, but perhaps at the very least a counter ability to break down doors (which would set off crim code in more public places/alert nearby npc's).

Overall nice stuff

[Only He Stands There]

Do you bar your front door closed when you head to bed at night? Nah. For most, it's left unlocked. For some, it's the knob lock, and for even fewer is the deadbolt used.

Uhh... I don't know where YOU live, but... around here, my door's deadbolted, knob-locked, and chained unless I'm going through it or letting someone in.

I sleep with all those locks in place, eat with all those locks in place, and watch TV/play Arm with all those locks in place... and the crime rate around these parts is probably a hundredth what it is in Zalanthas.

[psionic fungus]

Dude.

Barring doors is FAR a far more common practice in ancient and/or less developed societies.  Making a bar for your door is easy.  Making a lock is fricken DIFFICULT.  All of these apartments are equipped with lock mechanisms that may be impossible IRL.

Also, it makes sense to bar your door at night in Allanak or Tuluk.  I lock my doors, deadbolt as well.  Most people with doors in a society like Zalanthas would probably bar theirs. People certainly lock them when they log out (or sleep). I see no reason why Zalanthas could not or would not bar their doors.

What is the issue? All I see is increased roleplay.  If you want to bash down a door, and get wanted, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to do so, whether someone is logged on or not.  However, if you want to sneak into their place unknown, I see no reason why you should not have to observe their habits and make your move when you know they are away from home.  Knowing the PC you are robbing is probably logged in, and may be coming home, would make the burglary experience much more realistic, and perhaps prevent the majorty of the situations where people find their entire apartment emptied.

[FantasyWriter]

Though I like the idea, in some cases it could be abused. For instance in the above poster's example of blocking the door shut when the owner is not logged in, prevent thievery.

Maybe you could avoid that by putting a one hour(game time) laps on it to wear off.

[Tisiphone]

Thief-types, with enough strength or skill, should also be able to lift the bar from the outside, with the proper tools. I doubt most Zalanthan doors fit their frames well enough to keep someone from inserting a knife.

[Kyviantre]

Great idea.  Whole heartedly support, but also need a method of bashing down the doors (as said above), which would presumably make a good deal of noise.

So you don't want to bash down a lot of people's doors on a regular basis unless you're being ordered to by someone making sure everyone "saw nothin' gov"

[Maso]

In regards to the abuse of it by logged out players using it to stop thievery. Maybe Arm 2.0 will have accessible windows etc (probably with locks that need picking), that skilled burglars could use to gain access if necessary.

I highly doubt that underling you want to keep out during a secret meeting would use a window.

It would also make higher level flats more valuable. I know for me personally, if I am living alone in an apartment block, I will -not- live on the ground floor.

[FantasyWriter]

Thief-types, with enough strength or skill, should also be able to lift the bar from the outside, with the proper tools. I doubt most Zalanthan doors fit their frames well enough to keep someone from inserting a knife.

I agree very much so that it should be able to bashed and "pick"ed.  As I mentioned it would be more for privacy from those that DO have access to your apartment.  Not as a fortification against theft or attack.

Great feedback on my idea though everyone!!! To think, its only been posted for an hour!      

[Cale_Knight]

Do you bar your front door closed when you head to bed at night? Nah. For most, it's left unlocked. For some, it's the knob lock, and for even fewer is the deadbolt used.

Hell yes I deadbolt my door. Where the heck do you live that most people leave their doors unlocked when they sleep?

Seriously, man. Where is this magical fairyland, cause I'd like to live there.

[FantasyWriter]

Do you bar your front door closed when you head to bed at night? Nah. For most, it's left unlocked. For some, it's the knob lock, and for even fewer is the deadbolt used.

Hell yes I deadbolt my door. Where the heck do you live that most people leave their doors unlocked when they sleep?

Seriously, man. Where is this magical fairyland, cause I'd like to live there.

Sadly, especially since this is my thread, I seldom lock my doors at night. North Mississippi, where you can trust the next guy 80% of the time.

[Kyviantre]

Over here, we all lock our doors, windows, any hole larger than a mouse could barely fit through.  Probably not that comprehensive in Zalanthas, but you'd sure as heck want to barricade yourself in with all the crime rate there is in most cities there!

[Maso]

We don't lock our doors, because we live on a farm in the middle of nowhere, and because my door doesn't look. We have guard dogs, movement sensitive lights and theres eight of us in the house.

I think most people in the UK lock their doors though. And deadbolt them always. In fact, I don't think your house is covered for house insurance unless you use a deadbolt on the front and back door.

[Malken]

Seriously, man. Where is this magical fairyland, cause I'd like to live there.

It's called Japan.

But I don't like that idea.. If you can bar the door from the inside and I'm there, why can't I just remove the bar myself afterward? Why only the 'owner' can bar it?

Also, it's not because someone logs out in his apartment for three RL days that it means that he's been locked in his apartment, barred from the inside, for three weeks..

But I also think that there should be a HUGE penalty for someone trying to sneak into my apartment while I'm there.. Realistically, when you open the door to your apartment in real life, do you really think that someone could follow you in from behind without you noticing before you shut and lock the door once more?

[Angela Christine]

Do you bar your front door closed when you head to bed at night? Nah. For most, it's left unlocked. For some, it's the knob lock, and for even fewer is the deadbolt used.

Uhh... I don't know where YOU live, but... around here, my door's deadbolted, knob-locked, and chained unless I'm going through it or letting someone in.

Ditto.  Not only do I make sure the door is bolted before bed, I usually keep it bolted all day long.  I lock the door every time I close the door, the only time the door is unlocked is when the door is physically open.  Back ups like chains, security bars, etc., might not get used every time I close the door, but if I have them I'm certainly going to put them on before I go to sleep or get in the shower.



However, if "locked room mysteries" have taught me anything, it is that it is possible to open a barred door from outside, and even possible to use hooks, strings and various tools to bar a door from the outside.  Difficult, but possible.  On the other hand, if you slide a blade or other object between the door and the jam to try and knock the bar out of its bracket, there is a very good chance that you are going to make some noise.  If you succeed in knocking the bar loose then the bar is probably going to fall to the ground with a clatter.  Not as noisy as breaking the door down, but noisier than picking a lock.

It also depends on what kind of bar and bracket setup you are using, some would be easier to manipulate from outside.

Lift type bar.

  Slide type bar.  


Apartments are not vaults.  It should not be utterly impossible to get into an apartment.  All the locks and bars in the world can't stop a determined professional.  The best you can hope for is that your lock discourages amateurs and opportunists, and slows down others.  If people have an unlimited amount of time and are willing to make noise, they should be able to get through any non-magickal door.  If the door is a major hardpoint, then at some point they should be able to get a mining pick and go through the damned wall.  



Right now, windows are not usually exits.  In most cases you can't even look through a window (annoying).  Windows should be exits, and they should have a size.  There are small exits already in game that tell you things like "you'd need to be a tiny halfling to wiggle through there" and other variations on the theme that your ass is too fat to get through the exit.   :twisted:  Most windows would be too small for an adult from a common race to squeeze through.  Larger windows would come with shutters that would be functionally identical to doors.  Actually, in any location prone to inclement weather, all windows should probably come with shutters.  

Code Select Expand

The traitorous, brown haired human enters from the west.

You say, in sirihish:
    "Been scraping a little of my profit off the top, eh?"

The traitorous, brown haired man lowers his head, looking at his feet.

>bar door
You bar the door preventing anyone from entering or leaving it.

>draw mace
You brandish your obsidian-headed mace.

>sap traitorous
You sap him on the head, and he crumples to the ground.

>grin
You grin.

Yeah, I don't think that would work.  You can set up a system where the bar is further secured by a key lock, but a standard bar is just a bar, anyone inside the room can open it as easily as anyone else.  For trapping people in the room with you all you need is a standard lock, not a fancy bar.

[FantasyWriter]

Yeah, I don't think that would work.  You can set up a system where the bar is further secured by a key lock, but a standard bar is just a bar, anyone inside the room can open it as easily as anyone else.  For trapping people in the room with you all you need is a standard lock, not a fancy bar.

But what I was trying to do waas lock out/in people that DO have a key to said door.  Anyone have any other/different/better ideas for this problem?

[Only He Stands There]

Yeah, I don't think that would work.  You can set up a system where the bar is further secured by a key lock, but a standard bar is just a bar, anyone inside the room can open it as easily as anyone else.  For trapping people in the room with you all you need is a standard lock, not a fancy bar.

But what I was trying to do waas lock out/in people that DO have a key to said door.  Anyone have any other/different/better ideas for this problem?

"guard <direction>"?

[Maso]

I see what you mean by this. It does work because the door is locked. The bar prevents anyone else from coming *in* to the rescue. However, if they had unlocked the door, the unfortunate could then make an attempt to open the bar.

[spawnloser]

As has been said, barring a door is realistic if you are there.  However, barring a door from the inside to lock someone else in so that you can have their undivided attention?  Um, they're on the inside too and can get that bar off just as easily as you can.  It is NOT realistic to have ONLY the primary renter able to bar/unbar the door.  Putting a delay so that after you bar or unbar, you can't do the other for some amount of time is also unrealistic, unless that time was a second or so.

If you are inside and want to keep someone else inside, as OHST said, use your handy-dandy 'guard' skill.  If you are not skilled at guarding an exit, you should not be able to prevent someone else from getting out.

[FantasyWriter]

:? Hmmm.....

[Malken]

Anyone ever seen a ranger branch guard, just out of curiosity?  My line of thinking encourages me to believe that it would eventually come from rescue if at all... hmm... :?

Guard is not a skill you branch, it's a way of life.

[spawnloser]

Nice aside, FantasyWriter, but conjecture like that usually receives little affirmation.  We do not discuss who branches what and from which skill the new skill branches from.

[Yokunama]

-How is your roommate going to get into the room, if logged while the door is barred up?

-If you got killed in your room, how is the person going to undo the barred door if the only person that can do it is the owner?

-If you logged for a long period of time and your rent ran out, how is the new tenant going to get access into the room?