Dead Horse? Think again, sillies.

[rufus]

A derail of my own thread, but I just wanted to make a side-comment:

I keep extensive character files, and I have the data.

This makes me go lol inside.

I didn't know people actually did this.

I keep extensive character files, and I have the data.

Figures.

[Gimfalisette]

Job hazard. I've been working as a data analyst / database admin for like...12 years now or something. Organizing information is second nature. I keep everything I know about my character, everything my -character- knows, everyone my character knows and everything I know about them, and all the things my character needs to be doing in game organized in a very handy file system.

[rufus]

Job hazard. I've been working as a data analyst / database admin for like...12 years now or something. Organizing information is second nature. I keep everything I know about my character, everything my -character- knows, everyone my character knows and everything I know about them, and all the things my character needs to be doing in game organized in a very handy file system.

Do your characters forget things, or do they just have a well-developed photographic memory?

[flurry]

I just want the Staff to honestly tell me, once and for all, that the number of non-mundanes we are seeing currently in game is as it should be, that this is the way you want it to be and that what we see as a huge amount of them is just us mortals not seeing what you guys see, then I promise you and everyone else that I will never fight this battle again and just let it go, but until someone steps in and tells us that the numbers are just fine the way they are, this will just keep going on..

I don't know if this is exactly what you're looking for, but

As has been pointed out some of the changes that are being observed in the game are due to IC happenings and are consequences and reflections of that.
<snip>
However, the staff do not consider that the game is 'broken' or out of sync. Hopefully there are enough places, people, rp and stories going on out there that most folks can find something to amuse and entertain themselves and their characters with, whatever their preferences.

[flurry]

Just to clarify, when I said "do it the right way", I didn't mean to imply there is just one right way.  I just meant that if you think some people are playing something "wrong", then go out and do it the way that you think it should be done.

"Wrong" seems to equate to "visible" and "present" to a lot of people posting about the gemmed, so only "invisible" and "absent" are left.

To them, perhaps.  But, to paraphrase the Dude, that's just, like, their opinion, man.  :wink:

More seriously, you can't please everyone.

[Nile]

I just wish there were more bad asses IG. Zalanthas seems to be losing its harshness imo.

[luminary]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMpsnDxNbqQ

[Vessol]

I just wish there were more bad asses IG. Zalanthas seems to be losing its harshness imo.

I agree to some extent.

[Tisiphone]

I just wish there were more bad asses IG. Zalanthas seems to be losing its harshness imo.

QFT. More mundane badasses, especially. Sure, I've seen mages who'll kill you as soon as look at you, but I've seen 30-day warriors roll over and take someone's smartmouthing.

C'mon. More brawls, more fights, more ramming of the swords up the asses.

[Dalmeth]

The non-mundanes own ARM now.

I'd like to amend this statement.  The non-mundanes have always owned ARM.  Sorceror-kings and all that.  The staff have even stated that, in the grand history of Zalanthas,  the development of siege weapons was halted because magick did it better, and every side of any conflict used it.  The average character will find it easier to find a magicker than to actually work with explosives.   I mean, is it even possible to make primitive land mines?  

So we have the lines drawn :  mundane and non-mundane, small time and big time.  I hate that distinction.  Doesn't anybody else?  I mean, technically, anyone can become a sorceror, so why can't characters of a non-magick guild interact with magickal objects?  Why is it impossible to get certain things done without magick when there could be some great feat of engineering to do it as well?  The fact is, the end times are near, big things are happening, and the way the world works is that only magickers can do big things.  So everyone else is stuck trying to keep out from underfoot.

Don't give me any rubbish about leaders either.  A smart leader doesn't lead followers into impossible odds.  Even then, it would be better to have a somewhat meek clan than a clan that constantly loses its leaders and members.  The fact is, with the way magick works right now, the best way to take down a magicker is through attrition, not preparation.  So how much better off would the game world be if every non-magick character spent their time training combat skills so that they could fight against all the special characters out there?  It's quite simple, we'd get what we have now.  People would simply choose the more exotic guilds rather than take the odds on a deck stacked against them.

[bracken]

Maybe there is a reason for magickers spawning like maggots on a corpse at the moment.
Maybe, to fulfill the apocalyptic prophesy, "we" have to kill the endgame boss.  Which will unleash the four horsemen.
Whether it takes a 'balanced group, infused (no noobs!)', a Halaster, or Frodo, we need a pool of max level, high Karma sorcerers and halflings.
High karma, because who else can bring down a boss VPC?

[Tisiphone]

I hope you are wrong about 'bringing down' the endgame VNPC, at least if he's the dragon. That will strike me as rather stilted. After all, the Empire of Man, a society full of sorcerors, and with much greater technological and cultural advancement, stood no chance.

[Only He Stands There]

Play the game and find out?

[naatok]

It seems to me that the changes in 'overt' status of magickers and mind benders is in accord with the IC changes going on in Zalanthas.

Perhaps I'm wrong.  I don't know, but I do know that if I were playing a character who has grown up fearing magick and feels s/he has the power to do something, that character would indeed do something to eliminate a considered threat.

I am not familiar enough with the 'flavor' changes regarding long-time outlawed guild types such as sorcerers and mind benders.  For all the time I've been playing Arm those who practiced sorcery or who were discovered to be mind benders have been hunted and killed by just about every community in the game-world.  Yes, there have been community exceptions, but they are specific and rare.

What disturbs me is the talk I hear about the overt-ness of these outlaw guilds.  One person here mentioned knowing several such personalities in game.  Well, if you're not one of them, or if your character's background or personality isn't supportive of non-hostile action against these 'eeevul' renegades, then you should be working to either distance yourself from them out of fear or to destroy them out of fear.  Or anger/hatred.

Unless the IC nature of regard toward outlaw magickers and psionicists has changed recently, why the hell would gemmers or others who have no REAL IC reason to deviate from a long-established cultural rejection of these persons NOT seek to destroy them or avoid them?

[X-D]

Naatok sums up my feelings on the subject pretty well. Are there a lot of mages, Yes. Are there more then say 2 years ago, I do not think so.

But what bothers me is not the number of Psi's I know are in game or Sorcs, but the PC's who are NOT psi or sorc who associate with them like they are just another warrier/gemmer/insert class here, and Not, as the docs state, people who are universely hated and feared, who are hunted and killed simply because they exist.

To the point where it is actually Hard for one to run a PC who actually does hate/fear them. (Though I am still managing to do so).
The docs leave more leeway for elementalists, specialy gemmed but, all in all, The people to blame for the current state of affairs is not the players of the sorcs/benders but everybody around them.

[Nile]

^^^^ My thoughts exactly. I find if extremely difficult to play a char who hates magick, or fears magick, simply because there is so much of it around. Its just too common for me now.

When I started playing I remember seeing a Krathi cast mon un spell of doom on some raptor was a HUGE thing. I'd tell stories and shit about it IG. Now theres not much point.

[Doppelganger]

Are there a lot of mages, Yes. Are there more then say 2 years ago, I do not think so.

I disagree about numbers, more karma and more liberty with special apps do the thing and numbers increase, but it's lesser half of problem.

What is seriously different, is that 2 years ago mundanes were not alone responsible for following guidelines and being aware of virtual world. I could be wrong, but it was always my understanding that alone mundane always fears magicker, yet magicker always cautious about wrath of the mob, so he keeps his profile low, he does not poke mundanes in the eye for attention. That is why, or so I've seen, magickers two years ago were not roaming north road with auras on, they were not camping right outside delf camps, they didn't treat lawless areas like their safe heaven and shooting stand combined. They were there, yet they were leaving enough room and action for mundanes. Pity though, "mob" works only if staff would give a fuck, otherwise there is no real mob simply due to low PC numbers. And self-restrictions that were binding magickers two years ago are now gone due to lack of interest. Now, according to recent post of stellar roleplayers mundanes should do this and that, while magickers are free to do whatever they want. Don't you think that mundane classes should become karma restricted, due to their importance and difficulty to play? Too bad nobody would play them though.

Two years ago my rinti elf felt a sudden urge to travel. Travelling on foot is rather tedious task, tripling the pleasure for being caught in sandstorm twice and falling off the Shield Wall once. Anyway, enough time to see sights, and the only magicker he has seen was gemmed Krathi inside Luir's. Meanwhile on the road he has seen three mundane delves (one by one), three mundane Bynners (together), one tribal human, one dwarf with two kanks, Kuraci sergeant and another breed passerby. And it was the time when Plainsman's gang was in its full glory, not to mention random freaks, yet somehow they all have managed to stay away from me.
Now, travelling with kankspeed without seeing at least one magicker openly on the road is a something impossible. Maybe there were too many mundanes in the wastes back then, and wastes needed more danger, yet I don't see what is solved in that area by promoting those mundanes to magickers.
Outliving Templar who permawanted you isn't fun, so after sitting in jail for 10 real hours I stored. Next character is in GMH. Eight guys have died during my stay, seven mundane deaths and one was unverified. Not a single report from hunters about seeing rogue magicker for themselves, only rumors and rumors of rumors and ash in fortress.

Rinth, two years ago. Two magickers were known to me on the eastside, one on the westside, and visitors from southside are ensured. Sometime it was becoming too mundane to dodge invisible jakhals popping out of nowhere, yet due to active clans visible mundane presense in the Rinth was still overwhelming.
Now, one should think that Rinth is made to be part of elementalist quarter.

Allanak, that's where magicker's number didn't change much, yet their social invovement did. There always were special Oashi magickers and gemmed Templar's pets, yet they were just that, special. There was still need for mundanes for doing mundane task. It was not like, let's send that Krathi to whack that thing for us, because he would do better than  Wyverns and Byn together. Magick was always important for everything major, yet there were still room for mundane involvement. Magickers did not serve as complete replacement for mundanes two years ago.

Yes, as Flurry says, that's just one-sided biased anecdotical evidences, yet that's all I can gather from my logs from July-September, 2005. I see the difference and I am surprised that you don't.

We can gather around Belenos and wait several more months for new generation of great mundane leaders to come, but I think it will be fruitless. For any goal magicker leader has better personal power, magicker subordinates are more profitable material to work with, so no wonder that people chose not to bash their heads against the stone wall. It's not like mundane leaders are not trying, it's just their results are unimpressive. Group mudsex sessions are cool in moderation, but once mundanes stick their noses outside they get trampled by the guys who matter.

And to what naatok says, I am sure that most people who can't become magickers don't go stupid about breaking guidelines and include excuse for irrisistable tolerance towards magickers into their backgrounds. We all are great roleplayers here, anyone with a half of brain can come up with a reason to become exception, especially if exception is so common. Sorcs and mindbenders are where the fun is, would be silly to miss the chance to become spectator, if one is not provided opportunity to play at least secondary role.

[jhunter]

^^^^ My thoughts exactly. I find if extremely difficult to play a char who hates magick, or fears magick, simply because there is so much of it around. Its just too common for me now.

Honestly, I think that's just a lame excuse not to roleplay it correctly. That's like saying: "I'm surounded by people being killed around me every day so of course I'm not going to be afraid of being one of those people." or "There's a horribly contagious plague around me that kills in a very terrible way, but there's so many people infected I'm not afraid of it." or "The mekillot population has exploded, the fuckers are everywhere and you cannot leave the city gates without running into one, there's so many I'm just not scared of them anymore."

You get my point? Not being -more- afraid or -more- hateful of "EVIL" magick is unrealistic.

Naatok is completely correct, IMO.

If you guys are -really- seeing this much magicker activity, then why -aren't- any groups dedicated to the eradication of the magicker outbreak, popping up?
They should be.

[Forest Junkie]

Comparing the oversaturation of mages/special applications does not and should be compared to something akin to "omg meks everywhere" or "wow new plague".

Just...no...no no no.

The reason some are finding it hard to still roleplay fear is because it is as if the exception is now becoming the norm.

[jhunter]

Comparing the oversaturation of mages/special applications does not and should be compared to something akin to "omg meks everywhere" or "wow new plague".

Just...no...no no no.

The reason some are finding it hard to still roleplay fear is because it is as if the exception is now becoming the norm.

I disagree and still believe that to be a lame excuse.

[Sanvean]

So what? I'll be conservative and say that a "plethora" = three psionicists. I'll be conservative once more and guesstimate that only two special applications for psionicists were approved. That means that there are five in the game now. It may be just me, but I seriously don't see Zalanthas as a big enough playground to host five kids with magnifying glasses. It's just not fun being the ant.

The thread's 8 pages long, so I'm not going to do much but skim, but I want to say this -- a plethora was 12.  I accepted 1 out of the 12.

[Malken]

If the game is not following the docs anymore by not making it low magick and high mundane like it should be, then why us players should have to follow the docs where it says that we should be terrified of magick because it's such a rare and misunderstood power when it is being used?

If an IC excuse is being used to explain the high number of magickers lately, then I don't see why us the players wouldn't be allowed to use the same IC excuse to start refusing to be afraid of magick and refuse to play it as the uncommon and mysterious power it should be..

Like someone said, it's also the Staff's job to make it the way it should be, if you see someone being friendly to a gemmed one, I don't see why you couldn't animate a few NPCs and start shoving that guy around and double his rent for a month or two until he and his magicker lover friends start getting the clue that magickers SHOULD be hated and mindbenders SHOULD be hunted and killed no matter what.

The sad truth is that I bet right now every single templars and nobles (southern ones) are just dying for a psionist pet of their own.

[Maybe42or54]

In a group of people, it is much easier to do something wrong than to do something correctly. Now, if 9 of those ten do everything right. They aren't remembered. The 1 bad apple did spoil the orchard.

[Doppelganger]

If you guys are -really- seeing this much magicker activity, then why -aren't- any groups dedicated to the eradication of the magicker outbreak, popping up?

Because you are the only one bright enough to consider magick's power and ability to quickly regenerate its members anywhere close to d-elven. Why there are not any groups dedicated to eradication of silt horrors? Because its impossible, they respawn faster than you could possibly kill them, that's if you can kill them at all.

Active struggle against magick is not only just as lame as open love towards them, it also way to quick suicide. I don't understand how you blame people for avoiding one part of mundane guidelines, yet wonder why people don't go breaking other.

[Lizzie]

Conspiracy theory #72.4

Note: Any similarity to any actual IC situations is strictly coincidental, because I'm making this all up from the hole in my head.

So we have a lot more "obvious" magickers than ever before. We don't have that many more magickers in total, maybe just a few. But they're all coming out of the closet. That's the current observation and we'll run with that. Here's the theory:

Some of these magickers have noticed that mundanes can be lulled into complacency through regular exposure to magicks. These magickers ain't stupid - they're going to use the mundanes as their tools; their -very useful- mundane tools. Their -plot-enhancing- tools. Tools that can make a real difference, without ever using a drop of magicks themselves.

So the public magickers secretly plot against whatever they perceive as their enemy, all the while gathering up mundanes to sooth and calm with their regular presence. Some might even be manipulated into believing that the public magickers are the good guys; or at least, not the bad guys.  In the meantime, the magickers who are remaining unknown, are in on this whole thing, and are using this time to raise their powers to untold proportions, enough to level cities and usurp Sorcerer Kings. The magickers who are making nice and skipping merrily with mundanes down city streets are a ruse; a facade, carefully planned, to keep the mundanes at bay.

The so-called bad guys that the public magickers have convinced the mundanes about, are finally destroyed, and the magickers, who have intentionally made mundanes feel comfortable in their presence, suddenly reveal their true intent; to rid the world of all things mundane, and turn the entire planet into a ball of pure magick.

Mundanes are rounded up and penned in cages, and are tortured into submission in all sorts of vile, nasty magickal ways and turned into slaves, or killed outright.

End theory.

Now, if such a theory had any merit (this was posted mostly as just something to consider, not with any real understanding of what's going on), the magickers would -have- to be out there in the open. They'd need to "prove" themselves trustworthy, to relax the minds of those who would normally avoid them, or hunt them, or fear them. It's a lot of work, changing the mindset of an entire world population, don't you think? Especially if all these public magickers making merry and wreaking havoc and generally desensitising mundanes are doing what they're doing, JUST to cover up the true evil that lurks behind the scenes, unknown by anyone, anywhere. Maybe even the public magickers themselves don't know what's really going on; maybe they've been duped too!

Far fetched as it may seem, I think it could be a reasonable theory, and would make for an awesome plotline, and would (in my opinion) quickly cause those of us who are happy to simply play our characters and react how they'd react, without OOC complaint, to laugh at the nay-sayers when we're all turned into a great rock of windy fiery energetic flowing ash and sucked into the void for eternity.