Combat of Classes

[a strange shadow]

Skeet are over six feet long, or somewhere near there...

That's not little....

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

I once had a ranger get seriously wounded by a vestric.
Something needs to be tweaked.

[Cegar]

the wizened, horn-helmed man says, "There he is!"

the brawny, full-bearded man says, "Where?"

the wizened, horn-helmed man says, "There!"

the brawny, full-bearded man says, "What? Behind the vestric?"

the wizened, horn-helmed man says, "It *is* the vestric!"

[Maybe42or54]

The problems with a merchant fighting an aggressive "dog sized rat," is that when the merchant does get the first hit, he may get over confident, leading to even more errors, then he may get nervous, fidgety, scared shitless. Then if he isn't used to blood. the sight of his own blood may cause him to panic. When someone panics in a fight, it is easy for them to lose.

Want an example?
I am a marine that was in full protective gear trying to ward off an aggro dog-sized dog. That fucker tackled me, shredded some of my protective gear, gave me a shitload of scratches.

Why? I got the first hit, got over confident, got the dog to feel like it is in a corner, and it fucked me up. Could have killed me if the guy didn't say his german word for stop to make the dog lick my face and run off wagging its tail.

If you are telling me, a merchant, who spends all their time not fighting, will fight a wild animal bigger than a rat and win.. well, I say BS.

Fighting a dog sized pig is also fucking risky. My brothers arm was broken that way.

And, if you don't think I am good at fighting, I am 8-2 for unarmed sparring for this year against equally trained marines.

[LauraMars]

I can't even win against spiders IRL.

Make your merchants scared wimps like me.

[Hymwen]

The inability for a merchant class human (or humanoid, for that matter) to fend off attacks from large iguanas is ridiculous, especially when that human has weapons. It doesn't matter if that human is a pampered noble or a seasoned warrior, it's going to be able to defend itself from a small, non-deadly creature.

It's not like merchants die in a harsh wind. An animal such as a jozhal, a vestric or your proverbial dog-sized rat will probably need to claw/bite/slap the merchant ten or more times for him or her to actually die. If the merchant in question is wearing armor, it might be even more. It's generally not until you go up against real predators or larger mammals that we can talk about the risk of getting slaughtered. Yeah merchants can't really fight, but it's not like that tregil is gnawing him in half the second a fight breaks out. Can you (those of you who aren't ripped army guys or practice martial arts) take on a feral dog without getting some scrapes and cuts, and maybe a nasty bite on your arm when you "fend off attacks" from it?

Merchants suck at fighting, maybe a little more than is realistic, but they can dodge hits and even parry/block if wielding the proper equipment. It also depends a lot on stats; you're not going to avoid many hits if your agility sucks, and you're not causing much carnage if you're having trouble lifting that spear.

Maybe animals are sometimes unfairly strong or evasive. I've had my newly-made burglar (described as having moderate combat prowess) spar against a merchant and the merchant held their own fairly well considering that they're completely unskilled in combat. I've also had my ranger forced to flee from things like hawks, durrits (aren't they a bit like swans in size/shape?) and jozhals. Don't get me started on trying to hunt as an assassin. Sometimes the rats just twink out and bite you very hard on the neck.

[Cegar]

Well, this is getting kind of circular, isn't it?


Edit: =P

[fourTwenty]

I am a marine that was in full protective gear trying to ward off an aggro dog-sized dog. That fucker tackled me, shredded some of my protective gear, gave me a shitload of scratches.

Why? I got the first hit, got over confident, got the dog to feel like it is in a corner, and it fucked me up. Could have killed me if the guy didn't say his german word for stop to make the dog lick my face and run off wagging its tail.

I'm telling you this, if a marine can't take on a dog, then we're all screwed. I know this from personal experience, having been attacked by a LARGE wild dog before. (I don't know if you have any country, dirt-road experience, but when I say wild dog I mean like feckin' feral-wild.) I was only twelve at the time and wearing nothing but a T-shirt and blue jeans. Yeah, I got bit pretty bad and scratched even worse, but when you think you are really about to be die something will snap, you will grab that sumbitch by the throat and repeatedly ram your fist, feet and everything else into it's face.

Maybe the reason you were taken down and had such a rough time was BECAUSE of the protective gear. Are you talking about one of those big, bulky dog-suits they use to train police dogs? I doubt I could fend off a rabbit if I was wearing something the prohibited movement that bad.

So yeah, I defiantly think that even an unarmed, unarmored merchant should be able to kill a Jozahl or a Vestric. They may claw and bite you, but feck, Merchants got teeth and nails to.

Fighting a dog sized pig is also fucking risky. My brothers arm was broken that way.

I agree with you here, hogs can be feckin' SCARY when they're pissed.

And, if you don't think I am good at fighting, I am 8-2 for unarmed sparring for this year against equally trained marines.

D00d, 8-2's really not that good of a record. You lost twice :wink:

[Maybe42or54]

Exactly. And the two times I lost, the guy was a Mul.

As for my opinions on the "I want a full merchant, but I still want to kill shit." We can't have it all.

Get a merchant specialization in something and hunt a little bit by yourself, or be a full merchant and and involve other pcs in your life by paying them to get what you want. This game is about interaction with other people, not about making as much money as you can, as fast as you can. Get out there and involve other people. Its more fun that way.

[fourTwenty]

Nobody said they wanted a merchant that can kill shit for himself.
Some people would just like to have a Merchant that doesn't get killed by a kank-fly while he takes a walk outside for once.

[Tisiphone]

No, no, you've all got it all wrong.

The truth is, all the animals hate merchants more than any other class, so they fight harder. Because the dragon is a communist.

[Malken]

I bet I would do good against a wild dog if I had a couple of obsidian daggers to defend myself with.

To the marine guy, were you trying to fight off the dog with a big ass sword, too?

I once also managed to knock a dog out with a hockey stick when I was 16.. Of course, I'm also Canadian, so I'm probably of the Canadian class that comes with Hockey Stick Combat skill pretty boosted up to begin with.

[Gimfalisette]

I'm about the farthest thing possible from an expert on combat in game or in real life...but from what I've experienced, it's not a -given- that the mentioned classes will be completely unable to defend themselves in combat right from the start. For example, I had a newbie magicker who was able to kill a skeet one-on-one, armed with just a single normal dagger, wearing no armor, and using no spells. Yes, the character was in fairly poor shape after that and I kinda thought the fight might not be survivable, but it turned out OK. There was certainly plenty of time to flee and run away.

So I'm just saying, I don't think it's 100% the case that a merchant, magicker, or pickpocket is going to be swatted by the first kankfly out of the gates. Like many things...it depends.

[Jherlen]

No, no, you've all got it all wrong.

The truth is, all the animals hate merchants more than any other class, so they fight harder. Because the dragon is a communist.

Actually no, the Dragon is a capitalist pig. He perpetuates the class combat that this thread is addressing. The Dragon, aided by ginka, the NPCs, and the rightist staff autocracy, wants the "combat" classes (warriors, rangers) and their "strong" allies (mages, mindbenders, HGs and muls) to rule the game, at the expense of the hardworking crafter proletariat (merchants).

It's a vast capitalist conspiracy. How can I prove it, you ask? I apped a human merchant named Lenin (I even said he was from Tuluk!) and the staff REJECTED me! They knew what kind of uprising I might start! But we won't be stopped! Join me in overthrowing the rightist capitalist autocracy! Equal karma and equal combat skills for all the people! Vive le revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cegar]

No, no, you've all got it all wrong.

The truth is, all the animals hate merchants more than any other class, so they fight harder. Because the dragon is a communist.

Actually no, the Dragon is a capitalist pig. He perpetuates the class combat that this thread is addressing. The Dragon, aided by ginka, the NPCs, and the rightist staff autocracy, wants the "combat" classes (warriors, rangers) and their "strong" allies (mages, mindbenders, HGs and muls) to rule the game, at the expense of the hardworking crafter proletariat (merchants).

It's a vast capitalist conspiracy. How can I prove it, you ask? I apped a human merchant named Lenin (I even said he was from Tuluk!) and the staff REJECTED me! They knew what kind of uprising I might start! But we won't be stopped! Join me in overthrowing the rightist capitalist autocracy! Equal karma and equal combat skills for all the people! Vive le
revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, I accidentally apped a Nakkie named Stalin once. Pickpocket too.
Didn't mean to name him Stalin though. Oh, the fun we would have had. And if only the Panzerkank guy was around at the time too.

[Tisiphone]

Actually, I accidentally apped a Nakkie named Stalin once. Pickpocket too.
Didn't mean to name him Stalin though. Oh, the fun we would have had. And if only the Panzerkank guy was around at the time too.

I'm not disbelieving you, but how do you accidentally name someone?

[Cegar]

Oh no... I just checked. His name was Lenin. I took your name.


12) XXXXXXX - Dead
13) Lenin - Dead
14) XXXXX - Dead

Edit: I'm not sure... I think I was pretty tired and hit a few wrong letters and didn't notice. He died pretty quick though.

[Jherlen]

You're obviously a traitor! A part of the rightist conspiracy! They wouldn't allow the REAL Lenin in their game!

[Cegar]

Haha! This post was actually just a ploy to rally support for the learned combat aristocracy!

[Maybe42or54]

If your merchant is almost dead because of a kank fly, run.
Be real, if you are getting the shit fucked out of you by a kank fly. There is a reason that kank fly is taking down a human.

It can't kill you if it can't find you.

[Dalmeth]

You're obviously a traitor! A part of the rightist conspiracy! They wouldn't allow the REAL Lenin in their game!

Of course not.  He'd be a zombie or something similarly unwholesome, and you know how folks frown on the undead.

[Synthesis]

Well, his corpse -is- preserved....

...and Armageddon is supposedly post-apocalyptic, far in the future...

...and who knows what those crazy sorcerors can do...

...Arise Lenin, Arise!