Disengage unaffected by daze

[FightClub]

I think it should be implemented for sparring safety.  And would go as far to say as it shouldn't be affected by any type of lag, position or whatever.

[EvilRoeSlade]

The person that's fighting you can disengage.  If they don't, they're assholes.

[FightClub]

The person that's fighting you can disengage.  If they don't, they're assholes.

Not when they're also affected by daze, command lag, or sitting or resting in combat.  Disengage needs some serious tweeking if it's to be used as the prefer methods of spar monkeys.

[EvilRoeSlade]

As it stands, sparring is only dangerous if you do it irresponsibly.

I think disengage is fine as it is.  Flee suffers all the same command lag.

[Cyrian20]

As it stands, sparring is only dangerous if you do it irresponsibly.

I think disengage is fine as it is.  Flee suffers all the same command lag.

I think he means, my HG bashes you and through some lucky fate right after you get a shot that reels him. He might not be able to disengage the onslaught the is about to be commited on your prone shitcloaked ass  

[EvilRoeSlade]

I think he means, my HG bashes you and through some lucky fate right after you get a shot that reels him. He might not be able to disengage the onslaught the is about to be commited on your prone shitcloaked ass  :P

If the half-giant is reeled, then you can stand, disengage from him and end the fight without any further input on the part of the half-giant, so I still don't understand why this is necessary.

And if the half-giant had even a hope of landing a blow on you to begin with, then you shouldn't have been fighting him.  All it takes is one.

EDIT:  The point I'm trying to make, is that if you're dazed, for the period of your daze you're effectively auto-disengaged.  If your opponent disengages at this point then combat ends.  That's why I don't see any reason why disengage needn't be effected by the daze lag, if you type disengage while you're dazed then it makes no difference if it comes into effect now or at the end of your daze period.  Thus I don't see the point.

[UnderSeven]

I think disengage should be something you can do while on the ground.  If you get bashed it says stand up first, that's a little silly, but being dazed seems to suggest to me anyway a general lack of clarity of mind.  You don't get a very long lag from being dazed either.  To say you get hit on the head so hard you see stars, but you still swing, that makes more sense to me than you being able to stop yourself for safety sake.

[Hymwen]

I always thought disengage should be possible even when you're delayed from using skills, starting combat, being bashed or what have you. Basically in any situation. To stop attacking is not an action so it shouldn't be affected by anything.

[Xygax]

Don't spar with half-giants, if you want your PC to live.  Silliness.

-- X

[FightClub]

Don't spar with half-giants, if you want your PC to live.  Silliness.

-- X

Not all of us spar with half giants, in the case of classes like ranger who got severely anal raped by this combat fix.  Being able to _STOP_ a spar when you need to means a lot.  It's not so much as you disengaging as it is the other person being able to know you want to disengage at that exact moment.  When you have disengage screwed over by spam lag, bashes, daze, and god knows what else, you simply can't do that.  I mean if it stays as is, then you might as well go back to flee, atleast with flee you have a good probability to escape.

And beyond that, you might say oh well you should be watching one another.  Well I have enough trouble watching my own hp and stun in a fight to give me a chance to assess -v the person i'm fighting every round.  Especially when taking into consideration what might become of every round if I'm stunned.  So no, I'd like to see this a more usable option.  I'd like to see sparring become as safe as it should be, and this might be a step towards it, instead of taking another twenty steps back as trend has been for the past few updates.

[Cyrian20]

Don't spar with half-giants, if you want your PC to live.  Silliness.

-- X

Words of wisdom
/derail

[Xygax]

Not all of us spar with half giants, in the case of classes like ranger who got severely anal raped by this combat fix.

The ranger is not intended to serve as a toe-to-toe warrior, so while this point may be interesting to you, it is not interesting to me.  Clearly by your choice of inflammatory verbiage, it is something you feel strongly about.

Being able to _STOP_ a spar when you need to means a lot.

Right.  It means you're in control.  Except, if you were in control, you wouldn't be dazed, would you?

It's not so much as you disengaging as it is the other person being able to know you want to disengage at that exact moment.

Perhaps other commands would be more suited to conveying information along these lines.  I can personally recommend, and speak very highly for, the following commands as fine ways of communicating with your opponent:  say, ask, shout, tell, emote, pemote.  I won't bother documenting them, as they are detailed elsewhere.

When you have disengage screwed over by spam lag, bashes, daze, and god knows what else, you simply can't do that.  I mean if it stays as is, then you might as well go back to flee, atleast with flee you have a good probability to escape.

So your ranger, whose poor ass is still sore from the recent combat fixes, is finding it inconvenient that he is unable to spam-kick and spam-bash and god knows what else?  (while I am being partly sarcastic here, I am also pretty sure I am not understanding what you mean by "spam lag")

And beyond that, you might say oh well you should be watching one another.  Well I have enough trouble watching my own hp and stun in a fight to give me a chance to assess -v the person i'm fighting every round.

Perhaps the warrior and ranger classes are too high-stress for you, and the pace of the crafting code would be more your style?  I personally don't have trouble observing both my own condition and that of my sparring partner.  If this is an issue for you, and you're quite certain you don't want to consider a more sedentary IC-lifestyle, then perhaps the real issue is that you're not breaking away from combat early enough, and are risking your life and the life of your sparring partner by pushing for just one more hit, or one more skill gain.  The daze code is most definitely well-documented to cause more trouble for seriously injured combatants.

Especially when taking into consideration what might become of every round if I'm stunned.  So no, I'd like to see this a more usable option.  I'd like to see sparring become as safe as it should be, and this might be a step towards it, instead of taking another twenty steps back as trend has been for the past few updates.

I'm perfectly satisfied that sparring (with a trusted partner and with appropriately dulled weapons) is as safe as it should be.  I'm sorry if you feel that recent changes in the combat system have been "steps back", but from the tone and content of your post, it seems likely that you are pursuing a play-style that isn't in agreement with the atmosphere and environment we're trying to create, and which I think the new combat code changes navigate us toward.

[FightClub]

The ranger is not intended to serve as a toe-to-toe warrior, so while this point may be interesting to you, it is not interesting to me. Clearly by your choice of inflammatory verbiage, it is something you feel strongly about.

I'm not personally playing a ranger, and it definitely is something I feel strongly about.  I have no interest in a ranger going toe to toe with a warrior, my interest is in making spar a safer thing to do, and not a dangerous laborius task that would leave players less open to emoting. As is it consist of a lot of fingernail chewing, and teeth grinding as it is.  Especially for new non-warrior pc's who can at the drop of a hat take a wound blow or worse from your -dulled- training weapons.

Right. It means you're in control. Except, if you were in control, you wouldn't be dazed, would you?

Point taken.

Perhaps other commands would be more suited to conveying information along these lines. I can personally recommend, and speak very highly for, the following commands as fine ways of communicating with your opponent: say, ask, shout, tell, emote, pemote. I won't bother documenting them, as they are detailed elsewhere.

Will a say even go through with daze lag? I will try this, sometimes I even get so caught up on things that I fail to notice the simpler things...will try.

So your ranger, whose poor ass is still sore from the recent combat fixes, is finding it inconvenient that he is unable to spam-kick and spam-bash and god knows what else? (while I am being partly sarcastic here, I am also pretty sure I am not understanding what you mean by "spam lag")

No but the warrior beating my head like a bahamet is.

I'm perfectly satisfied that sparring (with a trusted partner and with appropriately dulled weapons) is as safe as it should be. I'm sorry if you feel that recent changes in the combat system have been "steps back", but from the tone and content of your post, it seems likely that you are pursuing a play-style that isn't in agreement with the atmosphere and environment we're trying to create, and which I think the new combat code changes navigate us toward.

That unfortunately isn't an option we -all- have, with the distribution of playerbase we can't all -have- that ideal person that doesn't absolutely cream us in every spar.  You need to take in consideration clans that only have a few pc's that have to train for their job, you do not have this option, and that guy who wounds you every single hit, is your only training device, if you can't stop when you need to well, it's very possible you might die from it.

Which doesn't make joining smaller clans in an attempt to build them look that appealing to me, or probably to anyone else who has faced these same problems.

EDIT: To add the above situation is hypothetical and all, just to make a point.

[Xygax]

I'm not personally playing a ranger, and it definitely is something I feel strongly about.  I have no interest in a ranger going toe to toe with a warrior, my interest is in making spar a safer thing to do, and not a dangerous laborius task that would leave players more open to emoting and less to thumb chewing, and teeth grinding as it is.  Especially for new non-warrior pc's who can at the drop of a hat take a wound blow or worse from your -dulled- training weapons.

I don't share your interest in making sparring safer.  I'm of the opinion that it -should- be a risky thing.  I am also inclined to think that "thumb-chewing" and "teeth-grinding" tension are good things for the game.

Will a say even go through with daze lag? I will try this, sometimes I even get so caught up on things that I fail to notice the simpler things...will try.

I went out of my way to code it so that communication and perception commands always work regardless of action-delay (which is what you have chosen to call "lag").  These things definitely work.

No but the warrior beating my head like a bahamet is.

So you're not really concerned about the sparring code, but with the fact that your training partner seems to actually want to kill you.  Unfortunately, no fix to disengage is going to save you from that (see below).

That unfortunately isn't an option we -all- have, with the distribution of playerbase we can't all -have- that ideal person that doesn't absolutely cream us in every spar.

If you haven't found this person, then you shouldn't spar (we're back to my original assertion of silliness here).  If you can't trust the person you're sparring with, and you are consistently at their mercy, then you shouldn't spar with them.  One day they will kill you.

You need to take in consideration clans that only have a few pc's that have to train for their job, you do not have this option, and that guy who wounds you every single hit, is your only training device, if you can't stop when you need to well, it's very possible you might die from it.

You should focus less on training and worry more about keeping your character alive.  If your boss is beating you within an inch of your life on every go, you should find another job.

Which doesn't make joining smaller clans in an attempt to build them look that appealing to me, or probably to anyone else who has faced these same problems.

This is a very non-sequitur tangent, and I'm not going to address it.  The composition of the "daze" code has nothing to do with the attractiveness of small clans.

If you don't like or trust the guy you're training with, no fix to disengage is going to save you.  Disengage only allows you to stop swinging at your opponent, it doesn't magickally end the battle.  Your sparring partner still has as much chance (if not more, since now you're not killing them back) of killing you as before.

[FightClub]

That said, thanks for the input Xygrax, and I'll begin using say, seeing that it pretty much does everything I want.  Alrighty alrighty, next thread, go!