Gith, thousands of them die a day?

[Majikal]

Okay.. for anyone who travels the roads near gith land the ongoing spam of dead gith and there discarded gear make me nuts. Anyone else bothered by this? I don't know whether to tell people to quit hunting gith senselessly or what... it's constant clutter on the road.. like.. ridiculous clutter..  look.

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A Crumbling Road [NESW]
A pouched belt made from brown leather is lying here in the dust.
A couple of obsidian longswords are here.
A worn out thick braxat-hide jacket lies here.
An used helmet made from inix-hide lies here.
An used set of cuirbouilli leg guards is lying here.
A long, hooded cloak the color of the sand lies here on the ground.
An obsidian shortsword lies here.
A short wooden spear with an obsidian head lies here.

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A Crumbling Road [NESW]
A pouched belt made from brown leather is lying here in the dust.
A couple of obsidian longswords are here.
An used bloodied bone breastplate lies on the ground.
An used bloodied scale helmet made from bone is lying here.
A worn out pair of pants, made from the hide of an inix are lying here.
A pile of black sandcloth lies here in a heap.
An obsidian shortsword lies here.
A short wooden spear with an obsidian head lies here.

e
A Crumbling Road [NESW]
An used bloodied scale helmet made from bone is lying here.
An used helmet made from inix-hide lies here.
A couple of obsidian shortswords are here.
A few obsidian longswords are here.
A couple of obsidian-tipped spears are here.


three consecutive steps on the road.. I mean.. wtf mates?

[/bitching]

I think it would be awesome if gith were beefed up a little which would make traveling githlands a bit more scary than it is. Or maybe even removing some of their items and beefing up their offense and defense or something.. maybe have them travel in packs which would make them hunted less. I dunno.. It's 4am here and I'm ranting.

[rufus]

That stuff does get annoying...
Establish a cleaning crew!..or some kind of salvage operation.


<3 Save the Gith. <3

[WarriorPoet]

Woe to the gith hunter that gets spotted by an Immortal. They suddenly get nasty.

I get irritated by mass piles of stuff all over the road, as well, but I don't really have an answer for it. Things can get very nasty with gith as it is, so I wouldn't favor beefing them up. Maybe making them travel two or three at a time at a time would help deter the scalp hunters...

-WP

[UnderSeven]

I'm pretty sure the gith npcs are getting sick of all the bodies of the newbie pcs.  We should probably buff them too so travel is less safe for our npcs.

[Doppelganger]

three consecutive steps on the road.. I mean.. wtf mates?

I take as granted that you had valid reason to be there and make these steps, so why do you think accused killers had no other purposes to brave that road other then mindless NPC slaughter?

Also, what UnderSeven says.

[Moofassa]

three consecutive steps on the road.. I mean.. wtf mates?

I take as granted that you had valid reason to be there and make these steps, so why do you think accused killers had no other purposes to brave that road other then mindless NPC slaughter?

Also, what UnderSeven says.

Ditto. Those were my thoughts exactly. Perhaps the killers had very good reasons to be killing all those gith? It's not as if after slaughtering the gith, players are going to stay behind and clean up the mess, that would be OOC. Complain more.

[jhunter]

I was kinda thinking the same thing. You were there for some reason so I'm sure the others that came before you were too. Lucky for you, they had to deal with a bunch of gith on the way through so you didn't have to. It is sort of funny that you posted that with the assumption that the others who came through the same area, -you- were also travelling, were only there for OOC reasons.

A bunch of little belongings lying around aren't a big deal, get over it.

[LauraMars]

Gith are aggro.

[rufus]

RUN FORREST RUN!!


Seriously, running = elite tactic, saves your butt from many a foolish death.

[Cuusardo]

It's quite possible that there were several gith who attacked something bigger and badder than they were, and it killed them.  And perhaps the killer had no use for the gith's crap, so they left it there.

[Forty Winks]

I saw the best way to prevent this would be to give the gith a code allowing them to act "intelligently".

They might:
Flee when overmatched.
Scouting in groups.
Following a set scouting path for each group.
Be 'reinforced' when one group is overmatched by calling over another group of scouts.

In general, a SimGith.  :twisted:  Though, I would think such an implementation likely wouldn't make that big of a difference to the world of stray newbie characters and the unwary or foolishly brave.

[Cenghiz]

I don't see a problem. If three gith attack me on the way, I kill them all in consequtive rooms, skin the corpses for the gith heads then leave anything behind - they stink.
Gith are already one of the most dangerous killable NPCs. Making them stronger would be cruel.

[Ghost]

I would not mind seeing gith buffed up, or moving in groups.  After adding up the NPC delay, the PCs are too overpowered against NPCs (On the IQ part that is).

And I have seen this:

Flee when overmatched.

Twice!  So I thought it is already in place, unless an imm was trying to fry me.  I would love to see it being coded.

No one can eat my brainz.

[Pale Horse]

POV of the "Gith Hunter" a.k.a GH:

GH slowly rides slowly from shadow to shadow within the desert canyon, watching the tops of the cliffs.  Suddenly a screaming gith leaps from concealment and rushes at him, weapons raised.  Having traveled this route before, our hero calmy draws his weapons and proceeds to beat the crap out of the gith warrior.  After the dust settles, the gith is dead and GH is victorious.  The fight raised a lot of noise for the area, so unless he'd like to have a scouting party or whole tribe of gith on his ass, our hero only takes long enough to behead the corpse and carry it's decapitated head back with him for evidence.  He leaves the body there.

POV of the Gith:

Standard gith hunter/warrior is out looking for food for his clan/searching for outlanders.  He spies a noted killer-of-kin in a gulch and, being the revenge driven person that he is, proceeds to hand out the justly deserved butt kicking to this rider.  After his nobel but ineffectual attempt ends in his death and the rider leaves, his buddies come upon his body, find it head less and vow vengence upon the human/elf/whatever that did this.  They arrange their friend's corpse in ritual pose and leave it there, equipment intact, so that their comrade may carry his weapons with him into death.

so I guess I'm saying: Think up a creative reason for all this gith crap to be laying there beyond "gith hunting power gamer".  Sure it could be the truth, but don't spoil your own rp for the twinks.

[bloodfromstone]

I like Pale Horse's suggestion. Really, I think a lot of this stuff comes down to giving other players the benefit of the doubt.

For example, someone joins your clan, and they seem to train constantly. Every time you see them, they're on the dummy, only breaking when there is a live person there to train with. You roll your eyes and think "What a twink." and thereafter your interactions and opinions of them will be sullied by that. But maybe they have an IC reason. Maybe their goal is to be the best warrior in the world, regardless of how painful and long the training. Maybe not. Maybe they ARE just a twink, but it's way better to not let that possibly spoil RP, yours and theirs.

What am I trying to say? Well, I'll tell you. The next time you meet a gith slayer, react as you would to a gith slayer, not as you would to a twink hunter. Next time you meet a ridiculously beautiful PC, react properly, instead of shrugging off "another f-me". Next time you get destroyed in an arena match with some guy you've never heard of before, react to that, rather than reacting to the assumption that they just twink out all day and night.

[Allegory]

You all do realize that quite a lot of that stuff lays there for days, right? I mean, RL days. That first room might be the stuff of dead gith number one from Tuesday. The stuff in the second room is likely dead gith number two on Thursday.

They carry a LOT of crap. They don't really need to be harder... they already have a pretty wide range of skill. Maybe they just need to carry less gear, or maybe the sand needs to blow in and cover it quicker.

[Cegar]

Most of those gith deaths are from gith that attack travelers, not the other way around.

[Hymwen]

Most of those gith deaths are from gith that attack travelers, not the other way around.

Do you know that for a fact?

I happen to know for a fact that it isn't uncommon for people to use giths as sparring dummies. From personal experience it seems to be mostly desert-elves and the occasional mul or half-giant who obviously don't get to spar often. Sure some of the gith are killed because they attack travelers but when I played a d-elf it was pretty much a daily occurance to see people "camping" them. The staff are good about noticing when players farm these NPCs for skill increasing and sometimes players are surprised by animated gith or mantis who act intelligently and call on friends.

[mansa]

I call it adventuring.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Most of those gith deaths are from gith that attack travelers, not the other way around.

Do you know that for a fact?

I happen to know for a fact that it isn't uncommon for people to use giths as sparring dummies. From personal experience it seems to be mostly desert-elves and the occasional mul or half-giant who obviously don't get to spar often. Sure some of the gith are killed because they attack travelers but when I played a d-elf it was pretty much a daily occurance to see people "camping" them. The staff are good about noticing when players farm these NPCs for skill increasing and sometimes players are surprised by animated gith or mantis who act intelligently and call on friends.

Gith attack PCs 100% of the time.  The reverse is not always true.

Considering their behavior, I see absolutely nothing wrong with people wanting to kill them, especially desert elves who live nearby and aren't pleased with the fact that their neighbors are a clan of psychopathic killers.

[Xygax]

There are certainly some things in the game that are meant to be killed.  Gith are one of them.  A more interesting analysis of RP in a circumstance like this would be: how did the person who slew these gith RP their wounds, weariness due to travel, concern over whether the gith they slew has friends, etc.  Before you level accusations of twinkery just because you found evidence of such a creature dead, those should be the questions you ask.

-- X

[Xygax]

Oh, and:  if the gith you're hunting suddenly seem to be much more intelligently coordinated, don't be too surprised.  The world often suddenly reacts realistically to your behavior.  If your behavior is foolish behavior, your mistakes can prove very costly.

-- X

[Hymwen]

I often wonder who are the psychopathic killers. The gith who stick to their territory and attack anyone who intrudes, or the desert-elves who go to the gith territory to wipe them out because they exist. But that's besides the point.

[Cyrian20]

I saw the best way to prevent this would be to give the gith a code allowing them to act "intelligently".

They might:
Flee when overmatched.
Scouting in groups.
Following a set scouting path for each group.
Be 'reinforced' when one group is overmatched by calling over another group of scouts.

In general, a SimGith.  :twisted:  Though, I would think such an implementation likely wouldn't make that big of a difference to the world of stray newbie characters and the unwary or foolishly brave.

I prefer this method, please don't pump them up. They are quite dangerous as it is, I have seen groups wiped out by certain gith parties in that area. If you see several gith assume it is just a part of the fact gith are warlike and don't always win.

[Medena]

Beef gith up? No way!  A single gith damn near killed my H-G ranger. Maybe she was a wuss for an H-G but still...

Okay, she -was- a wuss I'll admit it. I just don't think gith need to be made any stronger though.

[Synthesis]

The problem here lies with the fact that gith spawn near the road, and generally alone (although they do occasionally wander close together).  Further, since gith are aggressive, and will go one room in any direction to attack a PC, this effectively triples the amount of area near the road that is subject to gith predation.

If you look at the OP's example, all of the gith were dead on the road.  From this, it's pretty obvious that whoever killed them (and we can't assume it was a single person or group) -didn't- go out of their way to do so, they were simply following the most easily navigable route through the area.

A real test to see whether someone was going "out of their way" to kill the gith would be to travel one or two rooms north and south of the road, and count the number of gith corpses there.  If people are actually wandering -off- the road to slaughter gith, then there may be some justice to the accusation of twinkery.

[Hot_Dancer]

I love it when your character can accurately build tactics for the gith he's about to piss off, because he knows they're going to come in mass.

One day the staff will coordinate them in a less expected way...

HotDancer

[Cuusardo]

I thought gith and desert elves were mortal enemies, or something like that.  Or was that just one particular tribe of elves...?

[EvilRoeSlade]

I often wonder who are the psychopathic killers. The gith who stick to their territory and attack anyone who intrudes, or the desert-elves who go to the gith territory to wipe them out because they exist. But that's besides the point.

I don't necessarily feel you have one.  If the gith hadn't decided that a fairly well-travelled road was their territory, I doubt they'd piss their neighbors off.  Their territory is note a remote, hard to access area, and many people have business on it that doesn't involve killing gith.  They'd just better be prepared to deal with the nutjob gith if they want to use that road.

[Hymwen]

There's a difference between killing gith who attack you when you're going from point A to point B, which I have no problem with, and scouring the fairly large gith area to kill every gith you can find, something that I have seen happen quite often.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Yeah there is, and I guess if you feel the same way then it's only because we agree with each other.  :)

[Cuusardo]

Gith raid sometimes too, just like PCs.  And just like PCs, they aren't always successful.  It doesn't necessarily mean there's some psychopath out there killing gith.

[adrien]

It's quite possible that there were several gith who attacked something bigger and badder than they were, and it killed them.  And perhaps the killer had no use for the gith's crap, so they left it there.

thats happen to me quite a few times, a long time ago with one of my chars I was attacked a few time in one trip. My character was strong so I cleaned off the road of any gith that ATTACKED ME  I ended up being anbushed a few times on the road in the tablelands It would be nice to have not an overall stronger gith but a new kind that is stronger then the yellow ones  
IE/ for every 3 brown gith there is a yellow gith for every 3 yellows there is a new kind that is strong an leads asmall group of gith around the tablelands and even knowen world

It would also be cool if they did raids too on small towns and hunting parties and get there revenge for being slautered

[adrien]

holy cow i just ran threw there. There where only 3 rooms with no stuff or dead bodies

[Satansfish]

As someone who cant stand that type of clutter either, can I make a suggestion? If it bothers you, junk it. Emote the sand sweeping over it, or whatever comes to mind. Get rid of it. Do it once, and it'll take two weeks before it's bad again, and chances are, if enough people do this, you'll never have to see more than one set of it laying around again.

[flurry]

I was thinking it was a mass slaughter heralding the arrival of the plant-people race.

Seriously, though, who knows what the IC explanation may be?  OOCly, it might be twinkage or it might not.

[Majikal]

It just bothers me that when I'm with a group and throw out the idea of sneaking or trying to outrun them it's discarded for killing them instead. Even after my character has reached the point gith aren't a threat, I still RP them being a threat and try to avoid them when possible.

I'm all for beefing them up or making them travel in pairs or maybe more gith archers, eh?

[jhunter]

It just bothers me that when I'm with a group and throw out the idea of sneaking or trying to outrun them it's discarded for killing them instead. Even after my character has reached the point gith aren't a threat, I still RP them being a threat and try to avoid them when possible.

I'm all for beefing them up or making them travel in pairs or maybe more gith archers, eh?

Some people prefer to play pcs that meet the threat (if they believe they can handle it) head on. Some people prefer to take the cautious, or in the opinions of some of those others, the cowardly route. There is no more wrong with the others choosing to deal with it their way than there is you choosing to deal with it your way.

Their way of handling them could bring about IC consequences, as could yours.

[ianmartin]

Are you out of your mind with the beefing them up?

They are a threat to those who are less able to fight them.  This way we can at least avoid getting killed with one hit.  This way we can actually escape after two hits and half our HP.  

Let's be a little realistic here.

[Sokotra]

I think beefing them up would be dumb.

As far as the title of this topic says, I think it is also highly unrealistic.
"Thousands" of gith die a day?  If you are talking about a real life day, then I'd say maybe a few or several might die in a real life day - but sometimes not.  As far as Zalanthan time, I would say that on average, 0 gith die per day.  Maybe a few every ten-day or more, depending on what is going on in the region during that time, even if some badass comes through slaughtering gith - which is probably perfectly realistic - so please think a little longer before posting, thanks.  Not trying to be a smart-ass or anything, but I think everything is fine as far as it is (sure, a few tweaks could be made here and there, as always) as long as people aren't doing anything in a blatantly unrealistic way - which I don't think they are.  Excuse the run-on sentences - I like them.

[Majikal]

The 'thousands' part in the title.. was meant to get attention, not state a fact. Aside from that, I'm a lover of d-elves, naturally d-elves tend to see githlands a bit more. Many times I've watched someone walk the road, slaughter gith and leave. They didn't pass through.. just went to slaughter gith, turned around and scampered home with their newly trained 1337skillz0rz. In some cases it makes sense, some tribes hate gith, some people hate gith.. but some hunter from a northern house or some HG just walking through pounding gith.. those situations I've seen more than once.. those I disliked seeing. Everytime zalanthas becomes harder to survive in, I smile. I guess this is why I'm for beefing things up.

[Cale_Knight]

A few warriors twinking their skills on gith isn't a reason to make things an instant death-trap for everyone else.

Next time you see that, try using the request tool and let the staff look into things. If the player in question doesn't have a legitimate IC reason for what he's doing, I'm sure they'll take appropriate action.

[Spud]

It was all me.

[Sokotra]

The 'thousands' part in the title.. was meant to get attention, not state a fact. Aside from that, I'm a lover of d-elves, naturally d-elves tend to see githlands a bit more. Many times I've watched someone walk the road, slaughter gith and leave. They didn't pass through.. just went to slaughter gith, turned around and scampered home with their newly trained 1337skillz0rz. In some cases it makes sense, some tribes hate gith, some people hate gith.. but some hunter from a northern house or some HG just walking through pounding gith.. those situations I've seen more than once.. those I disliked seeing. Everytime zalanthas becomes harder to survive in, I smile. I guess this is why I'm for beefing things up.

Yeah, I see your point if some noble guard is going there just to try out their new leet noble-house armor/fancysword/newb-bashingskillz.  But I've just always had a problem with people taking offense when others are just trying to find a reason to "have fun".   Sure, we don't want this done in an unrealistic way, and it irritates me as well to see employees of some big noble/merchant house sleezing onto gith territory just to improve their already-elite bushwhacker skillz.  This point I have to agree with you on - if they already belong to some notable clan and have the training area, trainers, fellow clanmates, equipment, facilities, etc etc... then they are kinda doing a little bit of a disservice to those of us that don't have the time to be involved in a family/clan/house.  

Just don't confuse powergaming with those of us that are just trying to find an IC way to get involved in some action and have some fun.  There are many loners that probably go out to hunt these lands and end up on the edge of, or going through gith territory - and not just d-elves.  I also agree with Cale_Knight (as far as not beefing up certain gith) because I would personally rather not see these areas become travel-worthy only to those elite House guards and not the loner that has spent most of his life learning how to survive on his own in dangerous lands.

[Flaming Ocotillo]

Most of those gith deaths are from gith that attack travelers, not the other way around.

Do you know that for a fact?

I happen to know for a fact that it isn't uncommon for people to use giths as sparring dummies. From personal experience it seems to be mostly desert-elves and the occasional mul or half-giant who obviously don't get to spar often. Sure some of the gith are killed because they attack travelers but when I played a d-elf it was pretty much a daily occurance to see people "camping" them. The staff are good about noticing when players farm these NPCs for skill increasing and sometimes players are surprised by animated gith or mantis who act intelligently and call on friends.

OOCly, I think most people are aware that gith are aggro NPCs that are designed to hunt and kill travelers. ICly, gith are very well-known for their killing behavior and despised by almost all the other races for how they interfere with travel. With that said, we can make a list of the most likely people to be fighting gith:

1) travelers who are making their way through the desert from one place to another and are attacked
2) hunters who are living off of the land and end up clashing with gith who are in the area
3) raiders that are purposefully exterminating gith for a variety of reasons, whether it be for entertainment, for clearing the land of competition, for looting the dead, collecting gith bounties, or whatever

I don't see a problem ICly or OOCly with any of these scenarios. I don't think it's relevant whether or not "most" gith deaths come from group #1, #2, or #3. I'm of the opinion that there's nothing wrong with purposefully targeting gith or even going overkill and trying the exterminate the race. If a PC wants to dedicate their lives to killing gith, I think that could be an interesting concept, as long as the RP is appropriate for the situation (as Xygax pointed out, things like RPing wounds if you are repeatedly taking wound damage during a long hunt). In my opinion, there is an infinite amount of behavior in Armageddon that could be considered "twinkish" without appropriate RP, and killing gith is no different from any other scenario. I'm not really into the idea of assuming that PCs who hunt gith often are doing something inappropriate.

Where the gith clutter is concerned, it's only clutter because of the coded corpse decay. If Armageddon handled corpses for a long period of time, you'd see baking gith corpses/skeletons along the desert, instead of a screenful of gear.