Blood gurgles in your mouth.

[Curious.]

Just a thought, based on recent events, but not divulging any IC information.

If you backstab someone. Literally take a huge, foot long knife, and backstab them, how is it feasible that they, a moment later, can scream? Shout? Talk? Think?

The code literally says blood gurgles in the back of <victim>'s throat.
Thats painful.

I understand if you're just suprised by an assailant, that you lock eyes with, have time to recognize or just let the situation on a whole sink in. Then screaming seems like an option, maybe even a feasible one.

If you are attacked by an UNSEEN assailant, or backstabbed, otherwise -mortally wounded-, being able to scream should even be eliminated.

I can't imagine going about my day ho hum, walking in my apartment expecting to sleep, and then suddenly feeling a huge pain in my back, turning around, recognizing this elf I talked to earlier, and then screaming "This elf is killing me! I'm being killed!". That seems like twinkage to me.

What i'm suggesting is after a successful backstab, the victim cannot speak, shout, or otherwise communicate vocally. I suppose they could use the way, though even that doesn't make too much sense. The concentration required when sitting on a tavern stool and communicate with your mind, the norm being "so and so raises a finger to their temple", while talking glibly over a glass of wine, differs by far from being suprised by a knife in the back, in the gut, in the throat...Etc.

Thoughts?

[Cenghiz]

We have two lungs. I don't know for sure but I believe when one's wounded, the other may still give you the air to scream.

[Yang]

I kind of like this idea. What your suggesting is that being backstabbed, or even just suffering -extreme- damage by surprise, through whatever means, should impose some kind of 'bash' effect, or limit the victim in certain ways for a few moments. This would be neat, but I am worried that it might lead to inescapable situations for people. So... maybe if you get hit in the neck with a backstab, sure someone should be screaming stuff for a few moments at least, cause I mean: *gurgle guuuurgle*


*guurgle*

But everything can be worked around.

[EonBlueApocalypse]

We have two lungs. I don't know for sure but I believe when one's wounded, the other may still give you the air to scream.

I heard Christopher Lee talking about the proper way to perform a "backstab" on the Lord of the Rings DVD extras.  Apparently, he used to be in British Intelligence, and speaking from apparent experience, he illustrated the method of planting a knife in between the ribs where it punctures the lung, commenting that it will make a slight hissing sound, and the target would be rendered unable to make a vocal noise.

Normally puncture wounds that penetrate the diaphragm (and the lung) will cause pneumothorax (collapsed lung), which would probably be the source of all sorts of screaming and obscenities.  However, it is apparent that a trained assassin can backstab their opponent in such a way that renders them unable to make a sound.

With that, I agree they should be unable to use vocal commands (I don't think you can use the way after being backstabbed, correct me if I'm wrong), but only if a certain level of skill is present.  Maybe affected by the overall success (tiers of success in a skill).

On a side note, shouldn't assassins be more lethal to magickers than they appear to be?

[Cenghiz]

If it's true, then I'd like to be 'silenced' with my magickers after being hit by a blade between my ribs.

[EonBlueApocalypse]

If it's true, then I'd like to be 'silenced' with my magickers after being hit by a blade between my ribs.

Best way to kill someone who uses words as power.  But let's face it, if you get hit that hard, your chances of living are something along the lines of flee, flee, flee, flee, flee, stop (giggle), ad nauseum.  Why not, for the realism, if it makes sense and adds a dynamic to the game?

[Ghost]

I don't think you can use the way after being backstabbed, correct me if I'm wrong

As far as I know, you can, provided you have enough stun.

On a side note, shouldn't assassins be more lethal to magickers than they appear to be?

And they are.  So far a magicker is not prepared, assassin has the highest chance to kill a magicker than any other nonmagicker guild.  Even sometimes, a prepared magicker may fall to an assassin just as easily.

On the original post:  No, I don't think there should be such a code to stop screaming.  There is a backstab echo even saying: "so and so backstab so and so, resulting in a scream and a shower of blood."

Other than that, if this was coded, I would like to see:

A wound (around 20 damage) would impose a delay on the victim.
A leg wound would stop you from running away for a few minutes.
An arm wound would have an effect of disarm and impose a penalty on keeping your grip on your weapon.
A neck wound would get you killed in time.  (maybe 10 minutes)

An elkran's 'lightning bolt' would drop you semi unconcious and make you shudder for a few minutes (like a tazer)
A krathi's fireball would give you such a penalty on any skill you would not be able to walk, run, and hold anything properly.  (ever held something when your hand is burned?  Or all of your body?)
A whiran's certain spell (last time I checked it was not harmful) would give you a huge stun damage (nearly dropping you unconcious)

These are also realistic, but not encoded.

[Curious.]

These aren't coded as of yet.

Code is added every day, I just thought to propose somthing that seemed both realistic and practically common sense.

Everything you mentioned above, I also believe should be added to the game, eventually.

Eventually, being the operative word.

I think the idea of time-based penalties would be an exact comprimise to what I was supposing.

[Beux]

Thats a bit too harsh. It would prbbly increase the death rate dramatically, and some of use die enough. (re. ghosts list)

[Cegar]

You must take coded attack messages with a grain of salt.

Not every backstab is a stab in the back.

Not every kick is a kick.

[Galdun]

This is seriously such a good idea.

Any of you saying that it would be possible to speak, shout or scream after being stabbed in the back(Critically wounded by an assassin whose intent was MOST LIKELY to shut you up, -permanently-), clearly...have not been -stabbed in the fucking back-.

Forget everything you've seen in slasher movies, guts and glory war films, all of it is bullshit.  A wound that vicious, presumably from a long pointy object, would guarantee to put you past the point of speaking coherently if at all.

You know, why not just make it so that the person couldn't shout for a short period.  Keep say and tell and whisper functional after a backstab, but for god's sake don't let them shout so they can alert everyone.

PS.

Cegar, I agree.  Not every backstab is a stab to the back. But let us not forget that no backstab is a stab to the arm.  Its going to be the head, the neck, the chest, the gut, or the back, maybe in the shoulder.  Its intent is lethal in 99% of the cases.  All of those locations would probably keep you quiet; in far too much pain and losing too much blood to speak or shout coherently.

[Beux]

Yeh. But unless a lung is actually pierced, a blood curdling, incoherent scream would still be possible.

[Curious.]

Correction to previous idea:

If backstab skill is high enough, to the point where if you successfully backstab, the person should be hanging on to life by a thread, the victim CANNOT shout, or even use the way. They are on the verge of death. They cannot think, move, or run. They are fuxored. Period.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

If you are attacked by an UNSEEN assailant, or backstabbed, otherwise -mortally wounded-, being able to scream should even be eliminated.

Not every successful backstab results in a mortal wound. And what if they're going for the kidney instead of the lung? You'd better believe the victim will be screaming, then.
Sorry, while I can see the "realism" argument for it, I don't think every single backstab should silence every single person every single time. Until there's a way to decide between a lung-hit, an artery-hit, a kidney-hit, a liver-hit, and a heart-hit, then this would simply be making an already-powerful skill way too powerful.

[Shadows and Dust]

The assassin skillset is fairly archaic. I'd love to see someone tackle the assassin skills and try to make it a bit more unique. Via some new skills like 'silence' 'strike' 'slit-throat' etc.

[Galdun]

Ok.  Lets do this thing.

If I were to...hmmm...lets say, take this...and ummm...shove it into your back, I don't care if I somehow miss your lungs, you are -NOT- going to be able to shout.  

If you did shout, it would cause you excruciating pain.  After such a brutally inflicted wound, you would not shout, "I'm being killed!  Help!".  You would have difficulty moving.

Now some people are going to say, "But Galdun, what if they use a dirk?  Or a dagger?  Then it hurts less!"

People have been fatally wounded with car keys.  I mean, all that is being asked for here is that a skilled backstab prevents somebody from instantly alerting someone of their impending demise.

And for shits and giggles, lets run through the list of prime stabbing spots.

Head: You won't be speaking for a long time.

Neck: Nope, good luck moving.

Gut: This would lock you up real good and put blood in all sorts of places it shouldn't be

Chest/Back: Possibility of paralysis.  Maybe you could moan or gasp loudly.


It is my belief that Backstab should truly be an intended critical wound and not something akin to your Pokemon's "power move".

[Ghost]

Do we really need to go over this?

Referring to my previous post....

If you are arguing that there should be more realism to being backstabbed, I invite you to the realism of electricity and fire.  Above 30 volts of potential difference carries the risk of stopping the heart.  A 60 volt is considered dangerous electricity.  120-220 volts of electiricity causes spasms in the muscles and makes you lose control.  So getting electrocuted for 220 volts pretty much lets you drop anything you are holding, may cause you to piss your pants, drool uncontrollably and lose any control over your actions.

A lightning bolt on the other hand is an arc of electiricity, which is (since it is making an arc) is more than 75k Volts.  (More than 75k.  It may as well be 300 kV or even more).  Which is pretty much enough to drop you to the ground, causing spasms for -minutes- with NO control over your body.  If it goes over the heart, it may stop the heartbeat, or it may start it again (if the heart is not beating).  And if you ever cared to check the echo of a lightning bolt, it directly goes through the chest.  So stop heartbeat, so death.  Now lets say it does not go over the chest or lets give a chance it does not stop the heartbeat for 30% of the time?  You are still going to drop to a semi-unconcious level and lose control of your actions for several minutes.  Forget about fighting.  Forget about running away.  Forget about trying to defend yourself or making any coherent speech.

Well, the point of this post is, do not take the realism into the first account and start considering playability.  Do we really want to see an elkran holding such a coded power and letting you lose any kind of chance to defend yourself with but one action.

Or lets ask it the other way:  Do we really want to see an assassin, having one of the most powerful (but slow improving, I agree on that) skill in the game, getting even more power on that same skill thus making them terminators?

P.S:  My example of lightning bolt is just a mere snippet of realism.  Same realism would make a krathi and a whiran as deadly.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Just because a backstab hits doesn't mean it was a good backstab. If a strike -did- paralyze your character, then you'd be seeing the Mantis Head. If your target did not immediately drop, sorry, but you fucked up, and you're going to have to deal with the consequences. Hey, at least you took a good chunk out of their HP, which is a good start.
If you're worried about people screaming, then there are plenty of ways for you to either a) make sure they can't scream or b) make sure that if they do scream, it won't matter.
Realistically, sure, your opponent might not be able to fight back after you plant a dagger in the back. But realistically, you should not be able to survive a half-giant hitting you in the head. Not everything here is completely, 100% realistic, and backstab is enough of a death sentence already without adding some arbitrary silence effect.

[Reiloth]

Deal with the consequences?

If you stab someone in any regard besides a skin deep cut, you will be in PAIN. severe pain.

Dude, I slip and cut my finger sometimes on a knife. That shit hurts. I understand Arm is gritty, harsh, etc. Its people are used to pain.

Its people are not used to pain to the extent that they go "Hey, I just got stabbed in the back with a footlong obsidian blade. That hurt. Now to call for help."

It does make sense that it would cause a temporary -delay- in shouting, talking, or using the way. Nothing crazy, as suggested, but a few seconds.

I hate to say it, but I see victims of assassinations twinking far more than their killers, with this exact sort of thing.

EDIT: To add...Regarding playability...What? You just got backstabbed. You're going down. You ain't screaming. If you recover, flee, get away from this ghostfaced killa', have a moment to gather yourself, then it makes sense you'd be able to speak with incredible haste, and way everyone and their mother. Otherwise, i'd say This isn't an arbitrary idea at all.

[bloodfromstone]

I always assume that if a stab doesn't kill someone, it's a graze, glances off the armor, hits the meat, deflects off of a bone, whatever. If you get stabbed in the lung, you are dead. There is no argument over whether or not you can shout. If someone shoves three inches of glass through your heart, you die. If you aren't dead, then chances are your lung isn't popped and your heart isn't lacerated.

[Paris]

To this topic I say: Make a long lived assassin and I promise people won't
say a word if you play them with a little smarts. There is no need at all to just
make it easier to starting assassins. The sneak/hide code already gives them
a huge boost in newb assassin power as it is. Let your assassin live for a while
and I am more then willing to bet you don't really see this as a problem anymore.

[Yang]

Paris DOES have a point here. A long lived assassin has an arsenal of quirks that make them extremely destructive to all forms of life.


Tee hee!

[Cegar]

I always assume that if a stab doesn't kill someone, it's a graze, glances off the armor, hits the meat, deflects off of a bone, whatever. If you get stabbed in the lung, you are dead. There is no argument over whether or not you can shout. If someone shoves three inches of glass through your heart, you die. If you aren't dead, then chances are your lung isn't popped and your heart isn't lacerated.

Uh, actually, you wont die from many organ shots right away. You could get stabbed pretty much anywhere but the heart/brain and live for at least ten minutes. The only other quick way to a kill is bleeding out. Main arteries are located in the neck, thighs, and groin.

If you get stabbed in the lung, you can still scream.

If you get stabbed in the kidney, you can still scream.

Hell, if you get stabbed in certain parts of the brain, you can still scream.

The argument that you can't scream if someone stabs you in the back is, quite frankly, retarded. Unless you get stabbed in the heart (and things like this are taken into account), you're going to be able to scream. Hell, you could still probably move pretty well for a while. You guys are not giving credit to the human body.

[Sokotra]

I think the blood gurgling in the throat thing was just what they decided to put in there anytime someone landed a successful backstab - no matter how potent it may have actually been.  Hence.. yeah... these messages could use some updating.

Basically the backstab isn't always actually doing significant damage to cause internal bleeding.  10, 20, 30 hitpoints of damage may not actually be these blood-gurgling backstabs that the code makes you think.  

Change the coded output to say different things depending on the amount of damage you actually do?  Sounds good.

Possibly add some other effects to taking the sudden trauma?  Some of this might already be reflected in losing stun points or something - I'm not sure... but maybe a 'silence' would be a good one to add in there, depending on how accurate/severe the backstab actually was.

[jcarter]

This is seriously such a good idea.

Any of you saying that it would be possible to speak, shout or scream after being stabbed in the back(Critically wounded by an assassin whose intent was MOST LIKELY to shut you up, -permanently-), clearly...have not been -stabbed in the fucking back-.

Forget everything you've seen in slasher movies, guts and glory war films, all of it is bullshit.  A wound that vicious, presumably from a long pointy object, would guarantee to put you past the point of speaking coherently if at all.

You know, why not just make it so that the person couldn't shout for a short period.  Keep say and tell and whisper functional after a backstab, but for god's sake don't let them shout so they can alert everyone.

PS.

Cegar, I agree.  Not every backstab is a stab to the back. But let us not forget that no backstab is a stab to the arm.  Its going to be the head, the neck, the chest, the gut, or the back, maybe in the shoulder.  Its intent is lethal in 99% of the cases.  All of those locations would probably keep you quiet; in far too much pain and losing too much blood to speak or shout coherently.

In this game, you can be whacked in the head with a giant mace in the face and go on your way peachy keen. In real life, you'd be dead, or at the very least have the bones in your face splintering, also making it hard to talk.

Let's overhaul the entire combat system before we give assassins even more bonuses and turn them into complete and utter magekillers.

[Paris]

Ok.  Lets do this thing.

If I were to...hmmm...lets say, take this...and ummm...shove it into your back, I don't care if I somehow miss your lungs, you are -NOT- going to be able to shout.

And if I hit you with
this your going to shit your pants and die.

Again maybe your guy just sucks ass at killing people (displayed by his skills)
I promise if you work up your backstab then...

this will do as much damage as this if not more.


Assassins have a special place for me and I get pissed every time I see a person looking for
"assassin" work. They are such a powerful class that they attract people to them that
aren't experienced enough playing them and think they need more perks. The imms
have heard your requests and say hello to our new sneak/hide code and assassins
starting with POISON! I don't think I am going ic when I say if you want to shut someone
up and your not a good assassin (A good assassin –can- kill before they get a shout off)
use poison, learn about them and see there are plenty for the goals you're after. And since
attention spans* in this day and age are low I will reiterate: If you give your assassin time
and play him intelligently you –will- take people down without a single moment for them
to scream. It's not always poisons, as there are several other ways (that they start out with
if you have learned them ic)  for a beginning assassin to take a person out quickly i.e.

look steel
think Alright got Lord Ricketycrotch's sword. I am set fo life.
east
*beep*

Literally, just like that, where all they see is whatever emote you toss out just before their
screen spams up with a mantis head.

Try to get a little more in-depth with your assassins and you'll pray they don't make
assassins easier as it would overly ruin the game in my opinion.


Anyways that was my moment of ranting against giving backstab more uberness until
-after- we find a way to at least trim assassins down a little.


*Yes I was mostly talking to Cyrian20 right there. :p