World Population

[TiberiusAlaric]

Could anyone give me the exact figures for the population of the Known World? Furthermore, could you break the figures down by race and so forth? I would really like to know.  

[mansa]

My estimate:

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WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRGON


[Djarjak]

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A Dark and Twisting Alley [NESW]
This is an obviously impoverished area with refuse and detritus and even partially decayed body parts decorating nearly every gutter. Holes in walls that have long been abandoned conceal god only knows what kind of people.
There's a wino beggar here.

The silk-clad pencil-necked geek approaches the wino beggar and says, in sirihish:
  "Pardon me, but how many people live here? Do you have any children or other dependents? The Zalanthan census demands your participation."

A black hooded figure brutally stabs the silk-clad pencil-necked geek in the back, and a fountain of blood comes out of his mouth.


[Halaster]

EDIT:  See below

[Larrath]

My estimate of the numbers:

Total population - 1,700,000 humans and demihumans.

Allanak, its farms and the Labyrinth: 776,000
300,000 humans (3% noble, 2% templar, 50% slaves)
200,000 elves (5% slaves, 10% tribeless)
100,000 dwarves (20% slaves)
95,000 half-elves (10% slaves)
80,000 half-giants (70% slaves)
1000 muls (95% slaves, the rest in the 'rinth)

Tuluk and surrounding villages: 665,300
250,000 humans (2% noble, 2% templar, 35% slaves)
180,000 elves (5% slaves, 10% tribeless)
80,000 dwarves (30% slaves)
80,000 half-elves (5% slaves)
75,000 half-giants (75% slaves)
300 muls (95% slaves, the rest in the ruins etc.)

Tablelands:  65,000
30,000 humans (98% tribal)
33,000 elves (99% tribal)
2,000 others (80% tribal)

Red Storm:  3,500
1,000 humans
1,000 elves
500 half-elves
700 dwarves
200 half-giants
100 muls


This is my estimate, but I also read once that Zalanthas' population is approximately one million.

[Jherlen]

Halaster: could you break your official numbers down further for Allanak regarding how many of those 325k humans are slaves, and how many are nobility/templars?

8,000 dwarves and 6,000 half-elves seems kinda low...

[Morfeus]

Allanak Population:  500,000

325,000 humans
155,000 elves
8,000 dwarves
4,000 half-giants
6,000 half-elves
2,000 unknown/other/mutant

By the way, my numbers are exact.  They are not estimates.  Don't listen to esimates!

Yes! Because if there is a human child born which would make it 325.001, the Big Mean Templar comes to kill the child to keep numbers right. And trust me, you really don't want to know what happens if it drops at 324.999  :shock:

[TiberiusAlaric]

Thanks, guys.

I always have the best questions.  

[Twilight]

So, uh, how do I go about playing one of the 2,000 unknown/other/mutant that is not a mul?

[Halaster]

EDIT: see below

[Halaster]

The numbers posted above for Allanak (updated to include slave %'s) and Tuluk are "official" and have the staff stamp of approval.  It so happens that earlier this year we hammered this out and came up with this "official" census.

I'm still not sure about the rest of the world, but you can probably assume 65% of the world's population is within the two cities.

EDIT: changed the % of the world population in the cities because I realized 75% was probably too high.

[Twilight]

Only 500 muls tops in Allanak.  Wow.

[Dresan]

Can an economy work with such a high percentage of slaves??...well then again they are kinda being supported ('paid') with food and water and shelter which is expensive in Zalanthas.


Never realized how rare half-elves are supposed to be. Well actually how rare anything other then human and elves are really.

[jstorrie]

The Zalanthan economy would probably work much better without slaves - with no tradition of economics, very little mathematics, poor communication and an uneducated populace, central planning is incredibly less efficient than decentralized capitalism.

You're welcome to bring this up with your local Templars, who I'm sure could make very convincing arguments in response, however.

[Pantoufle]

I'd be curious to know how Tuluk has managed to produce a slave population of such magnitude after having been liberated for only 52 years.

[Angela Christine]

Maybe the Ivory Pyramid was chock full of slaves all during the occupation?  You don't think Utep was washing his own dishes, do you?   :wink:

Also, there were a bunch of slaves in Tuluk during the occupation.  When the southerners fled they didn't have time to take all of their belongings, including their slaves.  Not all of those slaves, maybe even not most of them, would have been freed.  Some would have changed owners, shifting from being property of the Allanak invaders to being property of the Tuluk government.  Slaves that specifically rose up and fought against the invaders may have been freed, but most slaves would have just kept on working, possibly not even being informed about current events until after the fact.  There would be no reason to free slaves that had been slaves since birth and had done nothing to further the rebellion.  In fact, putting them out on the street sidless and saying, "You're free now, go take care of yourselves" would be cruel in many cases, all they know is how to be slaves and do the tasks they were trained to do.  Freeborn citizens wrongfully enslaved could probably get freed, or just slip away in the confusion, but most slaves don't want to be free if being free means being homeless.  There were probably quite a few slaves that stayed slaves.

Isn't there a tradition in Tuluk for most members of the army to be slaves?  They could be going back to that.

[spawnloser]

At one point in time, all the soldiers were slaves.

Winrothol, I will say, is also quite creative in how they acquire some of their slaves.  I won't say how, as it's more fun to find out how creative in game, but damn, I love Winrothol.

[Halaster]

Isn't there a tradition in Tuluk for most members of the army to be slaves?  They could be going back to that.

That is correct, and in fact a big reason why they have such a large % of slaves as they do.  Notice the different in % of slaves of half-giants - Tuluk has a far higher % - which is because of this very tradition.  Allanaki troops tend to usually be "freemen".

[Dresan]

The Zalanthan economy would probably work much better without slaves - with no tradition of economics, very little mathematics, poor communication and an uneducated populace, central planning is incredibly less efficient than decentralized capitalism.

You're welcome to bring this up with your local Templars, who I'm sure could make very convincing arguments in response, however.

Actually this is not quite the responds i was looking for in more ways then one but its probably because my own question/comment was vague and not accurate itself. I would assume because of the large slave population, environement and culture zalanthian would never really have an economy in any way similar to our own, but it does work (vaguely in fantasy of course). The merchant houses are not only vital but nessasary for zalanthian economy to even exsist since they've specialized their slaves and workers to supply the needs (and to a lesser extend wants) of the known world.

But i derail and degress. I'll go back and read some of the older thread on the economy, they might have good concepts in them.

[Marauder Moe]

Slavery is a tremendously powerful thing for an empire's economy.

The Romans and the Egyptions did things that ever today we cannot do as quickly, cheaply, or effeciently.  Ancient Rome, the imperial road system, the pyramids... all of those would be hugely expensive for us to construct even with our modern technology.

Never underestimate the power of virtually free and unlimited manual labor.

[Marauder Moe]

I just re-read the population breakdown and the percentage of elven slaves seems a little high to me.  The documentation says that elves are generally considered to be unsuitable as slaves because their mentality makes them unruly and compared to other races they're relativly frail.  What gives?

Also I think the percentage of half-giant slaves is a little lower than I would have thought.

And the number of dwarves seems small... but oh well, if you say so.  *shrug*

EDIT: I suppose I should say these numbers seem off given observed PC and NPC populations.

[Marauder Moe]

Elves make very poor slaves, and it is extremely rare to find an elven slave. Most elves simply run away or contrive to escape at the earliest opportunity. If they do not escape, they are usually too frail to survive harsh discipline, and normally wither into uselessness in captivity.

[Angela Christine]

>em scratches her head.

Maybe these elves (or their ancestors) were enslaved as young children?  If they were raised within an organization they could conceivably be incredibly loyal slaves, since they have such a strong bond between Tribe and Self, and if they were raised within an organization they would tend to consider that organization (or some part of it) as their tribe.  In which case they would make pretty good slaves, as long as you didn't try to buy or sell them as adults.

[Marauder Moe]

Well, I figure it to mean that the elven mentality is inherently incompatible with slavery.  Tribalism isn't the only elven quality; don't forget about pride.  Then there's the physical inadequacies...

The only place I could see elves being slaves is in the arena, and most of them are probably captured thieves.  

Either way, the numbers Halaster posted are in gross contradiction with the docs (and NPC presence).

[Halaster]

Updated and verified numbers.  Splits muls out of the "other" category, and lowered the percentage of elven slaves to be more in tune with what we feel is correct.  Note that the majority of elven "slaves" are in various stages of the criminal system and are being tossed into the arena as combatants - very few are labor slaves.

Allanak (500,000)
322,000 humans (50% are slaves) (64.4% of total)
155,000 elves (10% are slaves) (31.0% of total)
8,000 dwarves (65% are slaves) (1.6% of total)
4,000 half-giants (20% are slaves) (0.8% of total)
6,000 half-elves  (40% are slaves) (1.2% of total)
2,000 muls (99% are slaves) (0.4% of total)
3,000 unknown/other/mutant (40% are slaves) (0.6% of total)

Tuluk (350,000)
219,000 humans (50% are slaves) (62.6% of total)
108,500 elves (10% are slaves) (31% of Total)
3,500 dwarves (65% are slaves) (1% of Total)
3,500 half-giants (80% are slaves) (1% of Total)
7,000 half-elves  (40% are slaves) (2% of total)
1,500 muls (98% are slaves) (0.4% of total)
7,000 unknown/other/mutant (25% are slaves) (2% of Total)

[Red Sunrise]

With such a low number of dwarves in both cities, does this mean the price of dwarves as slaves would be higher than that of humans, reflecting their relative rarity?

Along the same lines, in Allanak I was under the impression that most of the slave laborers in the obsidian mines were dwarves, but if there are only roughly 4500 dwarven slaves, would this still be correct?

[Marauder Moe]

Eh, 10% still means that elven slaves outnumber all other non-human slaves combined.  15,000 elves waiting to be executed in the arena?

[spawnloser]

Um, Moe...I don't think he said that ALL elven slaves were waiting to be executed.  Majority =/= all.  Also, "various stages of the criminal system" can mean more than just "rotting in a cell until tossed in the arena."