crafting command, "potential"

[joker]

as a new player, it would be nice to have hints as to what I don't know..

For instance, in crafting, it would be nice to be able to look at a piece of leather hide and see the potential for that to become hardened leather hide if I only had some salt..

so, my proposal is the "potential" command (or something similar) which could be directed toward a crafting component and give a list of what could be made from it with your current skill level if you only had a few extra components..

[Anonymous]

hmmm...no i kinda like it how it is...reverse engineering...if you find something you like made out of leather you can analyse it and see how it was made.

[moab]

Yeah, joker, I totally see your point.

A good way around this, right now, would be to have a character study under a master craftsman.

[Cegar]

Yeah, joker, I totally see your point.

A good way around this, right now, would be to have a character study under a master craftsman.

Too bad there aren't any.

[ale six]

I like this idea.

[Lizzie]

I think something like this could be a huge help to fledgling players and could be made to not "give away" recipes. Not all characters want to be clanned (the wandering loner who doesn't come from a city and doesn't want to be "assigned" to a city, not all characters are qualified to be clanned (your typical rinth rat non-assassin/spy). There aren't always crafter PCs around who have answers to your questions, and it seems presumptuous to feel like you could simply wish up and have an NPC animated to tell you every time you can't figure something out. Helpers are great but they're an OOC thing, and if you can go to a helper OOCly, why not have an IC device like potential for just some hints?

Example:

potential stone
You can work with the green-striped stone already.
You can also work with the green-striped stone if you combined it with some sort of salt.
You can also work with the green-striped stone if you combined it with some sort of black rock.
You can also work with the green-striped stone if you combined it with a tanned hide from the Tablelands.

At least that way you can narrow it down and not spend all your starting sids buying one of everything, only to learn that most of it is useless to you right now, and having to carry 2000 pounds of junk in your pack "just in case" you figure it out after your skill goes up 20 game-days later.

Learning that an item is made by Kadius is only possible through one of the commands (value? analyze? one of them) so unless someone gives you the shirt off your back or you find it laying around on the street, you can't just go to the generic clothing store and see for yourself -before- buying it. You'd have to buy it, use that other command, learn that you will -never- be able to make it yourself, and sell it back for less than half of what you paid. And that's just one item. Imagine a new player, who is also a new character, who is also unclanned (for whatever reason - maybe they want to be but simply can't find the clan PC who does the hiring), who just wants to make enough sids to survive for the next few weeks.

Or even the master crafter, who should know very well by now the "potential" of various raw materials, what he might be capable of doing with them if he had the right combinations.

I think it's a great idea, as long as it isn't giving out entire detailed recipes.

L. Stanson

[Halaster]

I kinda like this idea, but it's not really that hard to find out all the crafting recipes you want.  Like someone else suggested, you could study under a master crafter who already knows them.  You can also analyze things to find out what they're made of.  I'd be worried this would make it a little too easy to get all the "good" recipes and there'd be less use for the teacher/student relationship for crafting.

[rishenko]

I kinda like this idea, but it's not really that hard to find out all the crafting recipes you want.  Like someone else suggested, you could study under a master crafter who already knows them.  You can also analyze things to find out what they're made of.  I'd be worried this would make it a little too easy to get all the "good" recipes and there'd be less use for the teacher/student relationship for crafting.

My only problem with this system is that finding a Master Crafter in your particular field can be a huge pain.  Either there isn't one at the moment, or they are too flooded with work (because they're the only one that can make x,y,z) to offer you any tutelage.  So you're back to being on your own without any real idea of what to do and anything beyond the basic crafting list or basic combinations goes untouched.  Maybe that's the desired effect, but there are some objects that aren't insanely unique or rare, but their ingredient list is just odd enough that they won't get made.  And since they don't get made, you rarely see them in game to analyze or study them.

Bah, I guess it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

One last thing.  If you analyze an object and it simply skips to your prompt without any return information, does that mean you can't craft it, or is it simply not echoing out the standard "You think you could make this, but can't quite figure out how," message?

[Malifaxis]

Is there a way to limit this perhaps to crafting recipes that exist below the 'halfway' mark of skill?

This would make it extremely useful to the newbies, while keeping Teh Uber Cr@fts all sekrit.

[Cuusardo]

A good way around this, right now, would be to have a character study under a master craftsman.

Too bad there aren't any.[/quote]

There are plenty of master craftsmen in the game.  99% of them would more than likely be working for one of the merchant Houses.

[Gimfalisette]

If you analyze an object and it simply skips to your prompt without any return information, does that mean you can't craft it, or is it simply not echoing out the standard "You think you could make this, but can't quite figure out how," message?

The lack of return information when an item is analyzed means that the item is not craftable.

[rishenko]

If you analyze an object and it simply skips to your prompt without any return information, does that mean you can't craft it, or is it simply not echoing out the standard "You think you could make this, but can't quite figure out how," message?

The lack of return information when an item is analyzed means that the item is not craftable.

Now see, I used to believe that.  However, I was told at one point that one particular armor object that returned nothing from an analyze actually was craftable - which killed my thinking (which had been the same as yours).  So, I was hoping for a little imm lovin' on the subject.

[Gimfalisette]

Most recent I could find, from http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10271&highlight=analyze+blank :

If there is no crafting code whatsoever on the item, you will receive a very uninformative blank-line

[My 2 sids]

I too really wanted something like this.  However, I'm begining to change my mind.

Yes, its frustrating to buy things which you cannot use... but I can also see the point where it's much more engaging to find a master and learn from them.

IDEA  :idea:  :idea:

What if instead of code changes people submitted more help_docs or even some scrips for the merchants?  That way those who are really interested in having their characters learn can take the time and be rewarded with some inside information.

[rishenko]

Most recent I could find, from http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10271&highlight=analyze+blank :

If there is no crafting code whatsoever on the item, you will receive a very uninformative blank-line

And while that might be the case on the average, there are indeed articles of armor that a character was unable to analyze, and did not receive any line from, but later down the road was able to analyze and get the recipe from.

So either the item didn't have a recipe at one point, then -did- have one a month later (this was a rare, not so easy to acquire item btw), or the blanks do not always signify a lack of recipe.  

Personally, I could go either way.  I was originally of the mind that blank returns meant "no recipe", but after that and a couple other instances, I began to wonder.  That then prompted my question to Halaster, who I expect to say:

Yes Dave, the blanks do mean no recipe.  Would you like to play a game of izdari, Dave?

[Gimfalisette]

And while that might be the case on the average, there are indeed articles of armor that a character was unable to analyze, and did not receive any line from, but later down the road was able to analyze and get the recipe from.

So either the item didn't have a recipe at one point, then -did- have one a month later (this was a rare, not so easy to acquire item btw), or the blanks do not always signify a lack of recipe.

Well, new crafting recipes ARE added fairly regularly, for example see:

http://www.armageddon.org/general/updates/view.php?week=27&year=2006
http://www.armageddon.org/general/updates/view.php?week=14&year=2006
http://www.armageddon.org/general/updates/view.php?week=49&year=2005

So it's not inconceivable that something which wasn't analyze-able last month would be analyze-able this month, or six months from now.

*awaits rishenko's reply of "yes, but..."*

[spawnloser]

I have, what I think may be a better idea...

> analyze flute
You think you could make this from a long, thin reed.

> analyze reed
You think this could be useful in instrument crafting.

Thoughts or ideas?

[joker]

Oh, how about a slight modification to the Craft command where if you say >craft <component> in order to get a list of things you can make, you get a chance (based on your wisdom) to get one or more extra recipes thrown in  with suggestions of other components..

Code Select Expand


>craft flour
You can make a few travel cakes
You can make some flat bread
You can make a few handfulls of flour
If you had some eggs you could make a cake

*shrugs* just another idea..

EDIT:
also, would it make the idea more palletable for everyone if the hint would only work if you were missing no more than one component?
for instance:
>craft flour
might say "if you had some eggs you could make a cake"
but >craft leather wouldn't give a hint that also required moss and salt..
*shrugs*
yet another dumb idea from the whiny n00b

I have, what I think may be a better idea...
> analyze flute
You think you could make this from a long, thin reed.

> analyze reed
You think this could be useful in instrument crafting.
Thoughts or ideas?

this is basically what can already be done, but instead of >analyze reed you just do a >craft reed

[Ryker]

I would agree with this to a certain extent.   I think it would be alright if it worked purely on a noob level     that is to say that the command only works with cheep, basic matterials (sandcloth, bone, but NOT silk etc...) and you should only get two or three basic sugested combinations   so that the command would be used more for just getting a feel for the crafting system.

[elvenchipmunk]

No!

I love the surprise of being like:

Code Select Expand

craft bone
You could make a metal sword from that.
You make a fiery sword of magickal energy with nice pink flowers drawn on the side from that.


Just try random pieces of raw goods out. Eventually you'll find things. Or maybe ask an accomplished crafter.

I don't want to see recipes no way no how.

[Cale_Knight]

I'd be worried this would make it a little too easy to get all the "good" recipes and there'd be less use for the teacher/student relationship for crafting.

I've suggested this idea before (as have many others), and I think the answer to this worry is simple. Just halve the character's effective skill rating for this purpose.

For example: I'm a master smith and armorcrafting skill of 100. The difficulty rating of "a blood-hued braxat-hide belt" is 49. So when I analyze my blood-hued braxat hide, I see that with Halaster's left pinky I could make what I want.

However, the difficulty rating of a braxat-hide helmet is 51. Over my threshold. So I'll never know (without experimentation or a teacher) that a pair of Sanvean's old socks will let me make that helmet.

This protects more difficult recipes while ensuring that the simpler ones don't get forgotten.

Here's another idea:

When using the "craft" command on an item, the code looks at every item in your inventory and currently visible in the room (whether on the ground or in open containers). It then gives you a list of all recipes (again using the "50% skill" rule) you could make with those items.

If you're a good cook and you have a pile of ingredients, you should be able to figure things out.

Heck - if we can allow mages to automatically know their new spells, we can certainly allow cooks to automatically know a few recipes. And as with mages, the way cooks roleplay coming across their knowledge can be up to them - be it through a teacher, through experimentation, or just plain intuiton.