Why I hate the Rinth

[Angry Rinther]

I've read just about all the topics on the Labyrinth and after getting killed yet again by super NPC street thugs, I have to say I hate it. The NPCs have been set to a rediculous level to prevent "Twinking" and so new players who don't know all the fekking ins and outs of the code get slaughtered.

I followed the advice that has been posted about clothing. I was wearing and carrying nothing but my newbie rinther clothes, and I get attacked. I wear armour and carry decent weapons so I can defend myself. Nope, the thugs are better, stronger, faster and able to kill me with 10 sid daggers. I wear only things that I find on dead NPC rinthers. The fekking NPCs still attack me and so I die.

What is a newbie supposed to freaking do? I was wearing clothes I found on a dead NPC rinther. The NPCs don't attack each other for these clothes and don't steal them off dead bodies. They are seemingly valueless. Yet when a PC wears them they become target number one for uber street thugs.

I fully expect to see responses along the lines of "The rinth is harsh" "There is a steep learning curve" etc. If you plan to respond like this, please don't bother. I've seen these responses before and they only prove that OOC you know the scripts and which clothes work and so you have no problems. Good for you. However not everyone has all the OOC knowledge you do that allows you to survive. And it is OOC knowledge, not roleplaying, that allows you to survive the Rinth. The NPCs don't behave in an IC rational manner so the only way not to die is to know their code OOC.

Can PC rinthers please be allowed to tell by looking at clothing if it would get them killed by their fellow rinthers? If you've lived your whole life in the rinth wouldn't you know what will get you fucked up and what won't? And can they not start with clothes that get them stabbed.

Also, can someone please only put clothes on NPC rinthers that won't get you murdered? What kind of sense does it make that NPCs kill players for wearing something that they ignore other NPCs wearing? Kinda defeats the arguement that the NPC cloaked figures are behaving logically and aren't just programmed to fuck new players up.

And while we're on the subject, why are there posts all over the boards about how PC twinks shouldn't kill rinthers wantonly and yet NPCs are programmed to murder everyone and everything they think is worth a sid? Why is it OK for NPCs to kill people they think have money but when players do it they are bad (all the NPCs I've seen have had things on them worth stealing)? Especially when the freaking NPCs start with much better skills than a PC who has just started out but has lived in the rinth their whole life.

In my opinion the Rinth is the coolest part of Zalanthas but the totally irrational way the NPCs behave in the name of stopping twinking and harshness makes it extremely difficult to play there and requires alot of OOC testing and behavior. That kind of defeats the purpose of playing on a RP mud. If I wanted to spend my time figuring out how to beat the NPC code I could just play a combat MUD. I'm sure experianced players who know everything about the code enjoy it, but those of us who are new just find it frustrating beyond words.

[Hot_Dancer]

If it makes you feel better.. I know some ins and outs and have played for years.. and the labryinth is still too steep a challenge for me. I think I spent my first 8 characters in the 'rinth before I tried clan life.

Hot Dancer

[spawnloser]

I would like to correct a misconception you may have, OP.  My last time in the Rinth, NPCs were killing NPCs for their stuff.  Taking something off a dead Rinthi does not mean that it is safe for you to wear too.

There's also the possibility that they are hostile based off of race?  Keep in mind that the west side is human, and the east side is elves.  If you wander into the wrong neighborhood, you might just get killed for being you.  My last 3 Rinthi's all did fine and were only killed by PCs.

[Hymwen]

NPCs do kill eachother for stuff, if an NPC from one territory gets into another. I've usually thought of it as the NPCs in a particular turf knowing eachother and leaving eachother alone. It's not the best explanation, but if you want my opinion, the 'rinth would not be much risk if you could live in complete safety just by wearing crappy clothes. I agree that some of the NPCs are very powerful but again, I explain this with them having lived their entire lives fighting for survival.

If you get attacked by 'rinth NPCs, it is either because you're wearing something valuable - and yes, this can be former belongings of dead NPCs - or because you've wandered into a less peaceful territory. It is possible to get to most of the main points of interest in the 'rinth without getting attacked if you're not wearing anything valuable and not crossing the "race border" which you probably know about.

And it is not always bad to attack 'rinther NPCs. It is if you have no reason to, walking up to an unarmed beggar who has nothing of value and murdering them in cold blood if your PC has no motive, that's twinking. If you have a valid RP excuse to hunt an elf, or if they're wearing something that you genuinely need, then you shouldn't be labeled a twink unless you do this all the time.

And as for your suggestion about 'rinthers being able to tell if something is too valuable for the 'rinth: I like that a lot and I think it's a great idea, it makes sense and would be a great help to new players.

[Angela Christine]

There are a few NPCs that will attack anyone regardless of what they wear or what they are doing, I guess they are supposed to be crazy or something.  


Honestly, the best way I've found for moving through the 'rinth is to make like an elf and run.  The movement cost isn't that high, so I run, run, run, duck into a building, close the door, rest, and then run, run, run some more.  Uber-sneak might work too, but newbie-sneak probably won't help at all.  Once you've run through an area and decided it was clear of crazy aggro NPCs you can go back to sneaking for a while, I guess.

[Bystander]

First of all, one important thing to state - 'rinthi NPCs do attack each other for gear.  In fact, when you see an NPC corpse just lying in the middle of nowhere, it was probably killed by another NPC.

Second, I don't want to go into the mechanics but the NPC muggings are based, among other things, about the things that your character is wearing.  Fancy or pretty things make you a mark.
In this case, it was the shirt (don't forget many NPCs can peek).

Third, it wasn't instadeath; maybe you were lagged or linkdead, but you had enough time to flee, maybe even emote once or twice before.

Fourth and final, it wasn't really the mugging script that killed your character.  What happened is that a mugger NPC attacked and a second NPC assisted in the combat, and that second NPC is most likely the cause of your character's death.


I was really upset to see your character die that way.  Sorry.

I have two bits of advice to give you:
1) Try to only buy clothes you see other people are wearing without trouble, or buy it from clothing shops in the 'rinth itself.
2) If you see you get attacked by an NPC, stop and try to piece out exactly what piece of gear or clothing made them come after you.


I realize that this entire post is borderline IC (or perhaps just IC), and I apologize to anyone who might take offense.  I prefer OOC over IC in this particular instance.

[mansa]

When you are in the 'rinth, 40 coins is worth killing over.

[Ghost]

Since you say you wear armor and decent weapons, I am thinking they are the reasons you got attacked.  And no, not all of the rinther NPCs are super powered but if you are getting attacked by more than one, you should run away without a second thought.

Anonymous Bystander gave some good pieces of advice.  I think you can take them as guidelines.  I also do agree rinth is the coolest place ever.

Sorry for your loss.

[Cegar]

From my experience, wearing ANY sort of armor at all will generally get you attacked.

[Intrepid]

Another thing to consider is that the Rinth is insular, according to the What You Know Docs.  Without getting into too much detail here, if you look like someone from southside instead of a Rinther, you'll get attacked.  If your weapons and armor don't look like they're threadbare and came from the trash, you probably know why the npc got offed.

That said, it might be a good idea to make more clothing and even piecemeal armor available in the Rinth.  I'd personally like to see a bit more variety than what already exists.

[bloodfromstone]

I think some good advice has been given as to how to survive and dodge some of the 'rinths uberNPCs (some of them are pretty nasty). As AC said, there are some that just attack everything for no real reason. I hope this helps.

Personally, I dislike the way the 'rinth is set up as well. I felt like I had to luck my way through learning the ins and outs of the 'rinth's aggro code before I could really get into playing my character. I think the 'rinth needs a hardcore overhaul. It's a wonderful setting, but it needs some serious work before it is up to par with the rest of the world, imo.

[Halaster]

I don't think it's "bad" to kill someone because you want their stuff.  Even if their stuff only gets you 10 coins, so what?  In real life, people get murdered for the dumbest reasons in America.  He didn't show me respect.  He called my wife a bitch.  His dog crapped in my yard.  I wanted his shoes.  Life is even less valued on Zalanthas than it is on Earth, so if you "don't like the way that guy looks", feel free to try to kill him.

The point is that you roleplay and stay consistent with your character.  If your character enjoys murdering people and spilling their blood because he's an asshole, then fine, play that role and stick with it.  Just don't complain when you get whacked easily for it.

[Manhattan]

this is pretty funny...don't laugh but it's true. i actually strip naked and put everything in a bag before i go in the rinth. hey, it's not twinking, my pc likes to be naked, cos athas is so damn hot.

[Xygax]

What's "athas"?
:shock:

-- X

[Manhattan]

:oops:

ZALANTHAS, I meant.

[Barzalene]

Um...
This is probably a dumb question but I feel I have to ask...
You're not holding your sid, right? If you're walking around with fistsful of sid...

[Synthesis]

Having played numerous, numerous 'rinthers, I'll throw in my two chipped obsidian daggers.

First of all, there aren't any NPCs that will attack you for no reason at all (as far as I've been able to tell).  The reasons for an NPC attacking you can vary, however.  Fortunately, it's not difficult to figure out why they're doing what they're doing.  Even after the new "uber" NPCs were put in, it only took me a couple of characters to figure out how not to get mugged.

Second, you can wear armor, but be careful about it.  As far as I know, there are only 2, possibly 3 items that you can find in the 'rinth (proper) that will get you attacked by 'rinthers.  If you see NPCs starting to suddenly walk or sneak after you, it's probably a good idea to start dropping the last things you picked up, or get ready for a fight.

Third comes courtesy of Mr. Miyagi:  What's the best way to not be attacked? No be there.  If you're in the 'rinth without the sneak and hide skills, you're playing a dangerous game, my friend.  If you can't get out of sight, you'd better make -damn- sure that nobody gives a crap that you even exist.

Fourth, an extension of number 3, and a caveat for number 2: don't look like you're dangerous.  Sure, you can run around with a full set of 'rinth-safe armor, but does it really make you safer, or does it put a big target on your back?  If you don't have the skills to protect what you've got, maybe you ought not to be flashing it.

Fifth, if you've got the skills to protect what you've got, you probably don't need it anymore (as far as armor is concerned).  

The bottom line is: armor is a luxury afforded to only certain select individuals in the 'rinth.  If you take a good look around at NPCs wearing armor in the 'rinth, there's usually a reason they can afford to keep wearing it around.  Your "ordinary" 'rinth NPCs are still wearing rags.

The same goes for weapons.  You might think you need good weapons, but you're wrong--you need skills, my friend.  Even a wooden training dagger can put someone in the hurt locker, in the right hands.

And a parting thought: the 'rinth isn't rocket science, it's high-stakes poker.  You can know all the code, you can take all the precautions, you can think you're perfectly safe...and then someone throws down a four-of-a-kind on top of your full house, and it's back to the drawing board.  If you're creating a 'rinther with the intent to play a long-term character, you should take this to heart, and you should probably reconsider.  In all the 'rinthers I've played, I've never had one survive more than a couple of months (real-life) while actually remaining inside the 'rinth.  With those that managed to survive for a while, I saw PCs come and go like cars passing on the freeway.  If you simply want to enjoy being a low-down dirty scumbag, fine...but if you want a long-term character who becomes powerful or influential, you're honestly better off staying far clear of the 'rinth.

[Grey Area]

I hate to be the dissenting opinion here, but I found the rinth perfectly safe with my first character there. He lived for about five months without being ganked by NPCs (although in that time he was mugged/held up three times by PC rinthers) and only died later when he went out of the rinth. He also met many interesting people and, ironically, became wealthier than all my other characters put together.

I like the rinth.

[Sir Diealot]

Then rinth is difficult.  Its like its own game inside Arm proper..  You have to think like a rinth rat Zalanthan, not just a Zalanthan.  If you stay poor, keep unassuming, and avoid the hell out of everyone that is not your race, you'll live..  

If you grab armor, weapons, sid, or move to the wrong side of the rinth?  You die.

Oh, and something I learned as a total newbie..  Being a half elf doesn't mean you can go from east to west with impunity...

[Pantoufle]

First of all, there aren't any NPCs that will attack you for no reason at all

This is not always true.  Krrx once made a post discussing the responsiveness of NPCs in the Labyrinth.  He indicated that NPCs are coded to act differently from time to time so that we don't perceive them as mere "Diku mobs" but rather actual entities; and so you can't get used to relying on the same code tactics.  Where one day a street ruffian NPC might decide to ignore you despite that you have some fancy threads on, the next he might attack you FOR NO REASON AT ALL.

Don't ever think you are safe in the Labyrinth, even dressed only in rags.

Your safest modus operandi is this.  Unless you're a warrior who can butcher his way through aggressors, or unless you're some super secret powerful magicker, you'd better have the ability to sneak and hide: which you should do liberally.  Moreover, NO DILLY DADDLING!  Do not stop to smell the roses (there are none anyway).  Apply this rule twice as much when passing groups of NPCs, aggrevate one and you may inspire the wrath of the entire group (leaving you little chance to escape in time).

[Kalden]

he might attack you FOR NO REASON AT ALL

After playing over a dozen 'rinthers, many of them long-lived...never seen it happen.

[WarriorPoet]

After playing over a dozen 'rinthers, many of them long-lived...never seen it happen.

After playing over a dozen 'rinthers, many of them long-lived...never seen it happen.

Quoted two times, so you'll remember it. If they're after you, you've either got something they want or you're somewhere you're not supposed to be.

-WP

[jhunter]

After playing over a dozen 'rinthers, many of them long-lived...never seen it happen.

After playing over a dozen 'rinthers, many of them long-lived...never seen it happen.

Quoted two times, so you'll remember it. If they're after you, you've either got something they want or you're somewhere you're not supposed to be.

-WP

All quoted again for truth. If they are attacking you, there -is- some reason for it.

[Ghost]

For confirmation, you might get attacked by
a) Having something valuable.
b) Entered a compound of a clan you are not a member of.
c) Encountered by a racist.
d) Being in a fight with an NPC's clanmate (so yeah, even if you are the one being attacked by the NPC, you will still get whacked by his clanmates that sees the fight)

[Cuusardo]

All this talk about rinthis is making me want to give playing one a try.  Seriously.

[Intrepid]

Whoever said that it wasn't possible to survive in the Rinth for a long period of time was mistaken.  I've had three Rinther characters, two of whom were long-lived.

All this talk about rinthis is making me want to give playing one a try. Seriously.

I recommend it.  It's a difficult ride, but it's one of the most unique places in the game.  It's a place where thieves rule rather than warriors, and where humans are not necessarily kings of the domain.

[thunderlord]

Rinth is kinda borring. NO PCs there. THey are all in the city plotting and shit. Maybe you'll see a few. But meh, it isn't that fun and just plain borring. After about 2 days of seeing the same shit poor NPCs carrying the same shit, it gets borring. You can begin to explore and learn everything about the rinth. But in the end, it is borring. And In terms of players if you are lucky enough to run into them. THey are your "brother" who is your best friend because you are the only other PC they have ever seen there, or you're an enemy who that person will attack on sight because they know you have shit because you are a PC and PCs always have shit.
90% of the people you see in the rinth, not too long after you see them, you find yourself looting the food off thier corpse because some NPC killed him or her.

IF you like solo RP it is f-ing awesome.
nuff said.

[WillyWonkowski]

The rinth is the only way to go.

You'll figure it out eventually. It takes 3 chars.

1 to figure out what to wear.

2 to make a map.

And #3 is your guy.

[Hymwen]

All this talk about rinthis is making me want to give playing one a try.  Seriously.

It's a great experience, seeing the place and getting a taste of what it's like. But if you don't have a group of regular players to hang around, or god forbid if you're off-peak, be prepared for loneliness. I estimate that there is at all times 5 or less active 'rinther players, of which most or all of them spend the vast majority of their time "southside". Do not expect a rich environment with gang wars and such, because with my three 'rinth PCs, I saw none of that. Most of the times the clans that supposedly inhabit the alleys are empty or have one player.

I was left with two options:

Being alone in the 'rinth except for the occasional (seriously, once every 2-3 days) encounter, most of whom I only met once before finding their body in an alley.

Or just hanging out in the Barrel or Gaj, where few wanted to interact with my dirty PC and where I felt nothing like I had pictured my 'rinth PC.

[WarriorPoet]

All it takes is one good Rinther to get things going again. I've done it and seen it done a dozen times. Like every other place, even Allanak proper and Tuluk, it has alot of downtime when no one else is about.

-WP

[joyofdiscord]

I have never been disappointed in the rinth.  Never.  In my opinion, it is the finest part of all Zalanthas.  Anyone whos think nothing is going on there, frankly, probably just wasn't there long enough, or else the PC didn't have the necessary street smarts.  The rinth has its own special flavor of subtlety, and there is a LOT going on.

Play in the rinth.

[ThirdEye]

I love the 'rinth. I will probably be back there once my current character eats the dust.

[creeper386]

I've had alot of interaction with 'rinth characters and in the 'rinth although never with 'rinthis. It's quite odd. My few 'rinth characters I've had end up being killed because I don't know which half I should be in or where it starts/ends.

Bleh.

[Larrath]

I've had alot of interaction with 'rinth characters and in the 'rinth although never with 'rinthis. It's quite odd. My few 'rinth characters I've had end up being killed because I don't know which half I should be in or where it starts/ends.

East for elves, West for humans (and presumably dwarves).

[creeper386]

Yeah, I knew that much. Never really helped though.

[MarshallStaxx]

I am a new player, and chose the 'Rinth because it liked the sound of the atmosphere there, grimy and hella gritty, just how i like it!
I like the fact that that there are no PCs wandering round there.. it gives you satisfaction knowing that your character has the smarts to survive somewhere that many others cannot. It made me feel part of a 'gang', even though i was playing indie.
And i never got into any trouble wandering round the Westside, just made sure i was wearing raggy clothes, no weapons or armour on show and COINS TUCKED AWAY IN MY PACK!
Bizzarely, it wasn't until i starting exploring the other 'safer' areas of Allanak that i got into trouble and ended up dead.

[KingOfSpades]

I am a new player, and chose the 'Rinth because it liked the sound of the atmosphere there, grimy and hella gritty, just how i like it!
I like the fact that that there are no PCs wandering round there.. it gives you satisfaction knowing that your character has the smarts to survive somewhere that many others cannot. It made me feel part of a 'gang', even though i was playing indie.
And i never got into any trouble wandering round the Westside, just made sure i was wearing raggy clothes, no weapons or armour on show and COINS TUCKED AWAY IN MY PACK!
Bizzarely, it wasn't until i starting exploring the other 'safer' areas of Allanak that i got into trouble and ended up dead.

southside kills 90% of rinthers. 90% of the people who die in the rinth are southsiders.

[naatok]

Welcome to the jungle, baby.  You gonna DIIIIIEEEE!
:twisted:

The 'rinth is perfect the way it is.  Although I can certainly sympathize with the loss of valued characters there.

It's East LA, the Bronx, South Boston, Liberty City Miami, Skid Row all rolled into one happy quarter of Allanak......on CRACK!

The rules of the real life 'Jungle' do INDEED apply in the 'rinth.  Here are some real-life examples (I won't list in-game examples at the risk of spoiling things.  But this will work):

1.  If you're not poor and you're in the Jungle, you'd better LOOK poor at the very least!  In real life, I've seen one person mugged for the shoes he wore, another for wearing a nice leather jacket some thug wanted when he tried to buy drugs from the thug, and one poor schmoe for an empty wallet after a night of drinking because he was in the wrong part of Brooklyn BY HIMSELF at 2 am.  

2.  There are just SOME places in a city you DON'T go....EVER...if you are of the wrong sex/color/ethnic group/economic group/religion/sexual preference.
I've been assaulted once for being in the wrong place at the wrong time...alone.  I had to pre-emptively lay the smack down on another punk and RUN my ass off to a crowded subway terminal to avoid his friends' retribution because...again...I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.  And both times of the wrong color/ethnic group/economic class.  I consider myself fortunate for still being alive.  And this is REAL LIFE I'm talkin' here!  heh heh.  Zalanthas is 100 times worse!

3.  If you're in 'The Jungle' and you're not part of a jungle tribe, you had BETTER be able to make others THINK you are!  Me and some pals in the Army were dropped off in the north Bronx by our ride (who was scared shitless of driving in the Bronx/Harlem at night and wouldn't take us to Penn Station where we could catch our train to Jersey).  One of my pals was FROM Harlem.  So he told us all to tuck our hands in our jacket/jean pockets, and keep our mouths shut, faces front, and move TOGETHER as if we owned the place.
Although we passed by several groups of young local toughs who eyed us with malice and suspicion, nobody messed with us.  Because we did what our learned friend told us to do.  We looked like we THOUGHT we belonged there...even though it was painfully obvious to anyone that we didn't...and we looked like it would be more trouble to challenge our right to pass through than to simply let us go on our way.

4.  Don't let your tembo mouth bite off more than your tregil body can possibly swallow.  Or....don't let your alligator mouth write checks your hummingbird ass can't cash.  If you aren't a badass....don't even think about pretending to be one with someone who LOOKS like a badass.  Sure, you can intimidate some folks in the bad parts of town.  Might even get something out of it....like an occasional bottle of wine or simply an ego boost to your character.  But when you cross paths with a REAL badass...you'd be an idiot to stand toe to toe with him or her.

5.  If you can't beat 'em.....RUN!  This goes hand in hand with number 4.  If you DO get yourself in over your head.  Don't be an idiot!  Beat feet and get the hell-pits out of there!  And I don't mean just around the corner either.  Some punks in real life hold a grudge and will not sleep that night until they bury you.  Don't expect any different in Zalanthas.
If you experience different...consider yourself lucky and move on anyway.

[Bhagharva]

I need to say that anyone complaining that the rinth is too hard for newbies is probably correct. Ask any templar, or your Byn sarge.. or a noble. They will all tell you to stay the hell out. It's not supposed to be easy.

For those of you unfourtunates who can't stay out;

1) Rags. If I see someone dressed nice and I am playing there.. I'll mug that fekker too.

2) Run. It's simple really, if you're being attacked.. chances are good you are outnumbered or outclassed. The flee skill gets a workout and you scream IRL terror as your PC nearly feeds worms.

3) Rob. In the lawless land, do as the lawless do to survive.

4) Repeat  I just threw this in cause it started with "r"

[Bebop]

I have the best advice for you evar.

If you are newb - Don't play a rinther.

Get used to the game -then- play a character that is going to wonder around the lawlessness of Zalanthas with super agro PCs yeah?  Play something else - relax and revisit the Rinth one day far from now when you are nice and addicted and good at fleeing.

[Cind]

I was an elf who got killed by a human in the rinth who didn't tell me why. I think he was a mass murderer-type, or I was on the wrong side of the rinth... who knows?

[Chettaman]

Rinth is kinda borring. NO PCs there. THey are all in the city plotting and shit. Maybe you'll see a few. But meh, it isn't that fun and just plain borring. After about 2 days of seeing the same shit poor NPCs carrying the same shit, it gets borring. You can begin to explore and learn everything about the rinth. But in the end, it is borring. And In terms of players if you are lucky enough to run into them. THey are your "brother" who is your best friend because you are the only other PC they have ever seen there, or you're an enemy who that person will attack on sight because they know you have shit because you are a PC and PCs always have shit.
90% of the people you see in the rinth, not too long after you see them, you find yourself looting the food off thier corpse because some NPC killed him or her.

IF you like solo RP it is f-ing awesome.
nuff said.

Boring?... or redundant? It's like living in a ghetto in real life. (minus the guns)
If you're not finding satisfaction from killing your enemies, sitting around and doing drugs, just so you can go out and kill some more of your enemies. Then I don't think 'the thug life' is for you, homeboy.
just sayin'. The struggle ain't fun. The struggle is somethin' you -have- to do.


Edited to add:
Doh!

[number13]

^^ you're replying to a thread from 2-3 years ago.

[Ath]

Please leave dead topics dead.  Also if you have any issues with something that happened IC, please use the Request tool in and send in a Complaint.  Please do not place IC situations on the GDB.  Thank you.