Characters you don't see often...

[Cale_Knight]

More nobles who act less like 17th century Rennasiance aristocracy.

[Curious Kank]

More nobles who act less like 17th century Rennasiance aristocracy.

What would you rather see instead?

[Hymwen]

Less rangers.


YEAH SOMEONE FINALLY SAID IT!
Not that serious.

[Xygax]

More nobles who act less like 17th century Rennasiance aristocracy.

What would you rather see instead?

I'd personally rather see nobles who act like Armageddon nobles.  Arm technology and philosophy are nowhere near the level of 17th century earth.  I have posted vigorously on other threads (look for posts by "Xygax" about "grit" or "grittiness")

-- X

[Morfeus]

I have posted vigorously on other threads (look for posts by "Xygax" about "grit" or "grittiness")

-- X

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13367&highlight=grit

[Xygax]

Thanks, Morfeus.  I think my second post on that thread expressed well how I still feel about the portrayal of nobility and their underlings in Zalanthan society. (and actually works out to answer the OP for this thread to some degree, as well)

-- X

[Xygax]

BTW, though my remarks then and now may come off as critical, I'm interested in evoking ideas and giving players (including myself) ideas to build on in fleshing out their characters.  My purpose isn't to blast past or present characters for how they have been played.  If it comes out that way, I apologize.

-- X

[Dresan]

I'd like to see more males that fuck their way to the top. :oops:  :twisted:  :oops:

[Delirium]

Commenting in response to X:

There are some neat ideas - however the 'status quo' would have to undergo a remarkable shift in-game as far as nobility is concerned.  Personally, I find the current stark contrast between the have-nots and the wealthy to be very Armageddon.  Scheming, deception, and corruption are all very alive and well at all levels of wealth.

One doesn't need to spit on the sand and scratch their crotch just to be 'gritty'.  A noble used to all the luxury of their lifestyle can still be 'gritty' by way of how they interact with the gameworld - providing a contrast for the lower-class folk to rebound off of, idolize, love, hate, be jealous of, etc - and by the plots they introduce and interact with.

The problem is not really with the nobility & upper class or with the lower class, it's with the middle-class commoners.  Those who work for a merchant House or are reasonably wealthy via other means - seeing them act with the polish and refinement of a noble, or dressing every day in the same silks that miraculously don't get stolen or torn, is what takes away from that stark contrast that should (and still often does) exist between the haves and have-nots.

The only real solution is player education, and encouragement for those middle-class commoners to act as a person.  Buy a few outfits of cloths, not one outfit of silk, upkeep rent on an apartment, fill it with stuff you would want or need if you were really a living, breathing person, rather than someone who only uses the apartment for sekrit conversations and mudsex.

[jhunter]

City elves that -aren't- of the assassin, burglar, or pickpocket guilds.

More c-elf merchants, warriors, gemmed, etc...

[Synthesis]

There are good reasons why many of these roles seem not to appear among PCs.  Let's take a few examples:

1) Non-warrior half-giants.  Half-giants are only good at two things: crushing skulls and carrying heavy loads.  Personally, I think half-giants should be restricted solely to the warrior guild, because a half-giant doing anything else just doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

2) Dwarven tribals.  There is at least 1 coded dwarven tribal village, so they can and do exist.  However, given the nature of the dwarven focus, dwarves seem not to be the type to band together based solely on racial and familial bonds.  Further, they were once a slave race, which means the vast majority of Zalanthan dwarves were brought into and raised in a tribeless city environment.  For a dwarven tribe to exist, they would have to be tribal to a radical fundamentalist extent (to prevent any dwarf within the tribe from developing a focus that would lead them away), and this would probably lead them toward becoming extremely isolationist.

3) Men who sleep their way to the top.  Attractive female PCs have their pick of potential mates, so sex is not a bargaining chip for male PCs.  Further, very few female PCs (if any) actually sleep their way to "the top," given the nature of the relationship between those "at the top" and those who aren't, so why should males be any different?

4) People with bizarre personality quirks, or "skanky" people in general.  Despite the fact that people want more "harshness," most PCs in positions of power react with a high degree of skepticism toward PCs with personalities that go beyond certain norms that have been established over time by the playerbase.  These norms may or may not have IC reasons and justifications.  Given the existence of these norms, the fact that advancement is difficult or impossible without conformity, and the fact that most people want the option of advancement, most people do not play characters with personality quirks beyond the norms.

5) Non-stealthy city elves.  City elves are -perfect- for the stealthy classes in the game: they have naturally high agility, which makes them immediately successful at stealthy things, and they have high wisdoms, which makes them learn faster and ultimately means they fail less.  Beyond this: warriors are generally useless within the city, where city-elves must dwell (except serving as militia, which city-elves do not have the option to do), and city-elf merchants never have the option of rising to the heights of success that a human merchant will, so why bother with making one?

6) Female warriors/half-giants/mercenary types.  Well, I've seen plenty of female warriors, militia PCs, and mercenaries, so those three go right out.  As far as female half-giants, I imagine it's a combination of (female players') lack of enchantment with brute force, male players' reluctance to play female characters, especially one as highly-visible and monitored as a half-giant, and (more generally) the reluctance of most of the playerbase to spend a character's lifetime worth of roleplay and work as a mere pawn, with no ambitions, no scheming, no backstabbing...in short, none of the things that makes the game truly delicious.

7) Dwarves (in general).  Dwarves have to live and abide by a focus, and this aspect alone is intimidating to intensive roleplayers.  Further, the focus imposes limitations on players who are primarily interested in other semi-ooc things (advancement, accumulation of wealth, skill gain, etc.).  Add to this that their agility (arguably the most important combat stat) is the lowest of the non-karma races, and you have a race that just doesn't appeal to most people, except as an occasional break from human monotony.

[Dresan]

There are good reasons why many of these roles seem not to appear among PCs.  Let's take a few examples:

1) Non-warrior half-giants.  Half-giants are only good at two things: crushing skulls and carrying heavy loads.  Personally, I think half-giants should be restricted solely to the warrior guild, because a half-giant doing anything else just doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

2) Dwarven tribals.  There is at least 1 coded dwarven tribal village, so they can and do exist.  However, given the nature of the dwarven focus, dwarves seem not to be the type to band together based solely on racial and familial bonds.  Further, they were once a slave race, which means the vast majority of Zalanthan dwarves were brought into and raised in a tribeless city environment.  For a dwarven tribe to exist, they would have to be tribal to a radical fundamentalist extent (to prevent any dwarf within the tribe from developing a focus that would lead them away), and this would probably lead them toward becoming extremely isolationist.

3) Men who sleep their way to the top.  Attractive female PCs have their pick of potential mates, so sex is not a bargaining chip for male PCs.  Further, very few female PCs (if any) actually sleep their way to "the top," given the nature of the relationship between those "at the top" and those who aren't, so why should males be any different?

4) People with bizarre personality quirks, or "skanky" people in general.  Despite the fact that people want more "harshness," most PCs in positions of power react with a high degree of skepticism toward PCs with personalities that go beyond certain norms that have been established over time by the playerbase.  These norms may or may not have IC reasons and justifications.  Given the existence of these norms, the fact that advancement is difficult or impossible without conformity, and the fact that most people want the option of advancement, most people do not play characters with personality quirks beyond the norms.

5) Non-stealthy city elves.  City elves are -perfect- for the stealthy classes in the game: they have naturally high agility, which makes them immediately successful at stealthy things, and they have high wisdoms, which makes them learn faster and ultimately means they fail less.  Beyond this: warriors are generally useless within the city, where city-elves must dwell (except serving as militia, which city-elves do not have the option to do), and city-elf merchants never have the option of rising to the heights of success that a human merchant will, so why bother with making one?

6) Female warriors/half-giants/mercenary types.  Well, I've seen plenty of female warriors, militia PCs, and mercenaries, so those three go right out.  As far as female half-giants, I imagine it's a combination of (female players') lack of enchantment with brute force, male players' reluctance to play female characters, especially one as highly-visible and monitored as a half-giant, and (more generally) the reluctance of most of the playerbase to spend a character's lifetime worth of roleplay and work as a mere pawn, with no ambitions, no scheming, no backstabbing...in short, none of the things that makes the game truly delicious.

7) Dwarves (in general).  Dwarves have to live and abide by a focus, and this aspect alone is intimidating to intensive roleplayers.  Further, the focus imposes limitations on players who are primarily interested in other semi-ooc things (advancement, accumulation of wealth, skill gain, etc.).  Add to this that their agility (arguably the most important combat stat) is the lowest of the non-karma races, and you have a race that just doesn't appeal to most people, except as an occasional break from human monotony.

Your very likely correct(though oddly depressing), however believe it or not there are alot of players around without the ooc win mentality (i doubt i could boast i'm one of them but maybe someday).

Also just because they are not OOCly popular, doesn't mean they don't exsist in-game, for example there are an abundance of both male and female  whores of all social classes who do sleep their way to the top.

I think the point was to give people without the win mentality (which i promise to someday become) ideas about not so popular roles that  exsist and might be cool to see.
 
That said more northern elves and dwarves doesn't matter what class.
I might play a northern elf again...last time i played one was pretty fun, travel a wee bit of a pain though.

[rishenko]

a cross-dressing, androgynous merchant mul
an HG vivaduan who wants to make things grow and picks flowers
any public figure with tourettes
more....mutants....
more cripples
more raiders
more wilderness-based/living rangers
more tribals
more people based in villages / more northern villages for people to be based in
more thugs

[Tuannon]

dwarf from the rinth    

• 
  'incompetent' assassin
• 
  
  I hope to play a non sneaky city elf soon, but I am having trouble with shoehorning the trust RP around into a role other than a merchant. Also I think the Arm elven population has a series of dos and donts that are outside of my experience thus far.
  
  As for playing roles your class and race are not commonly matched in, I take perverse pleasure in doing this, the only thing that has stopped me really has been a lack of karma. I like to take the road less travelled with my characters, but end up spacing them out with mundane roles.

[Anonymous kank with wings]

Buy a few outfits of cloths, not one outfit of silk, upkeep rent on an apartment, fill it with stuff you would want or need if you were really a living, breathing person,

The problem here is everyone becomes dirt poor except the thieves What character can typical afford to replace three cycles of clothing each month?

[Hot_Dancer]

I'd really like to have a chance to interact with some dwarven tribals.

Hot Dancer

[John]

Buy a few outfits of cloths, not one outfit of silk, upkeep rent on an apartment, fill it with stuff you would want or need if you were really a living, breathing person,

The problem here is everyone becomes dirt poor except the thieves What character can typical afford to replace three cycles of clothing each month?

Supposedly independants.

[Hot_Dancer]

A dwarven tribal is actually a concept that interests me now..

..though, it'd be too easy to mirror elven tribal life, I think.

Many of the dwarf's focuses are going to be towards the benefit of the tribe, not exactly something that would mutate or divert it from its established way of life.

Battle various territorial, traditional enemies in their homelands.
Protecting the village could be a focus, as could be educating the youth to efficiency or even single-handedly making sure the tribe is properly armed.

To bring wealth to the tribe..

Hot Dancer

[Yokunama]

Half-giant - Assassin
City Elf - Ranger
Dwarven - Templar
Elven - Templar
Elven - Tektolnes
Half-elf - Tektolnes

[EvilRoeSlade]

Half-giant pickpockets

THOU SHALT SEE IT COME TO PASS MY LORD

[jhunter]

Half-giant pickpockets

THOU SHALT SEE IT COME TO PASS MY LORD

Heh, I've considered doing it so many times. I can see it now:


"What the fuck are you doing big fella, trying to steal my shit?!"

The big-eared, noseless half-giant says, in sirihish: "Uhmmm....no..."

The big-eared, noseless half-giant shakes his hand vigorously, obviously trying to dislodge the leather backpack from his huge hand.

[amish overlord]

Heh, I've considered doing it so many times. I can see it now:


"What the fuck are you doing big fella, trying to steal my shit?!"

The big-eared, noseless half-giant says, in sirihish: "Uhmmm....no..."

The big-eared, noseless half-giant shakes his hand vigorously, obviously trying to dislodge the leather backpack from his huge hand.

I can see the giant saying this
Umm No jsut your pack. Why i want to stea lyour poop?

Amish Overlord  

[jstorrie]

"Hey, stop stealing my crap, you jerk!"

"Why? You gonna beat me up?"

"Well, ah... carry on, carry on."

[Synthesis]

Actually, a half-giant pickpocket -would- get the crap beaten out of him by just about anything that decided to attack him, for a long, long time, because half-giant agility imposes an enormous penalty on their defensive capabilities.

[Angela Christine]

Why bother with picking pockets if you can just pick 'em up by the ankle and shake 'em until the sids fall out?