Class idea

[flurry]

So, I brought up this idea for a new class on another thread a while ago:

Gatherer Probably not the best name, but I'm thinking of more of an outdoor/survival type that's less inclined to hunting than the ranger class. Sort of a merchant-ranger hybrid, I guess. Adept at gathering materials from the land, working those materials, and trading the finished products. Not as good a wilderness guide as a ranger, but fairly capable of surviving and getting around outdoors.

Some people seemed to like the idea, but I wanted to get some more feedback/suggestions before I go ahead and 'idea' it.

Does it actually fill a need?  Does the concept make sense?  What kinds of things should this class be able to do?   (Not looking for skill tree suggestions or anything that detailed.)   Any better ideas for a name than 'gatherer'?   I think it would need a different name, because of the existing concept of gathering energy.

[Bullet Eater]

Sounds good, but the gatherer shouldn't be able to work all kinds of materials masterfully. The gatherer seems like it is meant as a jack-of-all-trades, so it should be able to craft what it finds well, but not too well. Throw in bartering skills and a good subguild and a gatherer PC would turn out pretty well.

[Yokunama]

It sounds like a beefed up version of the merchant class.
Try give it some faults. Perhaps they can not become as proficient as merchants? Maybe, they only have or branch a few crafting skills (woodworking, stone carving, tool making)?

[Dre]

I kinda still like the idea of mechants needed rangers and vise versa as opposed to having a class that can survive fairly well without either of them.

Its not to say its a bad idea, but its just how i feel.

[Delirium]

Dune Trader

- Low-capped piercing_weapons and chopping_weapons
- Riding, piloting, both starting low
- Desert navigation, capped moderate-high
- Low cavilish, Low bendune
- Skinning
- Tanning
- Armorcrafting
- Stonecrafting
- Rope_making, branching into basket_weaving
- Dye crafting, branching into floristry
- Knife_making, branching into axe_making, spear_making
- Value, branching into barter, capped moderate-high
- Listen, capped moderate-high


Sort of a semi non-combat ranger.

[Lavalamps]

Dune Trader sounds WAY too good.

[flurry]

Cool ideas, Delirium.  

It sounds like a beefed up version of the merchant class.
Try give it some faults. Perhaps they can not become as proficient as merchants? Maybe, they only have or branch a few crafting skills (woodworking, stone carving, tool making)?

Just to explain myself a little better: it wasn't meant to be a beefed up ranger or merchant.  A mix of the two, in a sense, but worse than either when it comes down to what makes those guilds special.  

Here's why I suggested it: it seems to me that there are so many "indoor" classes, but really only one "outdoor" class.  And yet, so much of the game world, and so many of the cool things, are outdoors.  There's just a symmetry issue there that doesn't sit right with me.  Yes, I know that there can be a lot of diversity in the way rangers are played, and other classes are playable outdoors, but still.  

Of the mundane classes, it seems like a merchant would be the hardest to play outdoors.   Yet there are traders who don't live in the cities.   So it seems like there might be room for a class who has some of the survival ability of a ranger and some of the crafting/trading ability of a merchant, without being a beefed up version of either of them.

[Hot_Dancer]

Why not beef the merchant class instead?

Give them about the combat ability of a burglar or assassin.

Hot Dancer

[Cale_Knight]

Because there's absolutely no reason to beef the merchant class. They're amazing at what they do.

[LauraMars]

If I'm understanding flurry correctly, this would be like an outdoor version of what the burglar class is to cities/stealthy types.  Jack of all trades, master of none.  Not as good as a warrior, ranger, or merchant, but it can do a little bit of fighting, a little crafting, a little riding.  I like it.

[Lazloth]

I think it's a great idea to extend outdoors survival to archetypes other than the canonical hunter.  It may be easier to implement this with a subguild (once it is quantified exactly what may help shape an "outdoors personality") which can be then applied to merchant, etc.

[Majikal]

Dune Trader

- Low-capped piercing_weapons and chopping_weapons
- Riding, piloting, both starting low
- Desert navigation, capped moderate-high
- Low cavilish, Low bendune
- Skinning
- Tanning
- Armorcrafting
- Stonecrafting
- Rope_making, branching into basket_weaving
- Dye crafting, branching into floristry
- Knife_making, branching into axe_making, spear_making
- Value, branching into barter, capped moderate-high
- Listen, capped moderate-high


Sort of a semi non-combat ranger.

I really like this, alot. Even the Cavalish and Bendune make sense. maybe add in some woodworking skill. I like this because it would compliment ALOT of subguilds as well as getting people away from being JUST rangers. Everytime I cross someone in the desert they're usually ranger, or warrior/hunter. It would be a very nice addition IMO.

[Lizzie]

Or at the very least give the merchant class one weapon type at even a low or middling cap. It is very strange to have dual-wielding and other combat-related skills yet not have any weapon skills. Not to mention pointless. If you can't use any weapons, why would you need to wield two of them? I think most people who RP someone who can make all kinds of things that could be very expensive, and carry those expensive things with them so they can trade them, would know how to handle a switchblade or small blunt object (or at least be capable of learning how to use it with some measure of success) to protect themselves in an emergency. If said merchant doesn't sell shields as part of their trade, it doesn't make all that much sense for a merchant-class to be walking around all the time holding a shield. RP-wise, well, shields just kind of clash with silk, know what I mean?

L. Stanson

[Malken]

The addition of a full new class to play sounds so exciting Well, at least to me..

I really like the dune trader idea, especially after reading about the dune traders of Athas not too long ago

[Marauder Moe]

I think the very fact that so many people like this merchant-ranger hybrid idea means that it should never be implemented.

For starters, the suggested crafting skills would give it the garaunteed income potential of an actual merchant.  The navigation and combat skills would give it most of the mobility and outdoor survivability of a ranger.  On top of that, the listen and the languages make it extra sociable.  What are it's weaknesses, though?

A good class for a class-based game needs to have both weakensses and purpose (in terms of what it contributes to a group of players that other classes can't).  This seems to have neither.

P.S. guild_merchants don't neccesarily have to be completely inept at combat.  I had one go through a year of Byn training and he did alright.  He only rarely beat new ranger or burglar recruits in sparring, but he could survive a gith, gortok, or scrab fight long enough for someone to help him out.

[Quirk]

I'm afraid I too think the class Delirium posted is too powerful early on (if a little weak later). More crafting skills than merchants from the very start, and more useful ones at that? Weapon skills on top? Cavilish and bendune? Desert navigation? Who'd play a merchant if they could play a dune trader? Oh, certainly, the merchant will get to craft more in the end, but a whole lot of work stands between the start and this being achieved.

I'd propose something more along these lines:

Dune trader:
- Modest piercing_weapons and chopping_weapons (burglar caps?)
- Shield, dual wield, two_handed
- Riding (near ranger cap) and piloting
- Desert navigation at near ranger levels
- Cavilish, and Bendune at elf/dwarf sirihish levels
- Skinning (slightly above subguild level cap)
- Forage (ranger cap) branching hunt (desert version, slightly above subguild cap) branching search (subguild cap)
- Value (merchant cap) branching armor repair (subguild cap)
- Haggle (pickpocket cap)
- Listen (ranger cap) branching scan (ranger cap) branching sneak (desert version, subguild cap)
- Bandage (subguild cap) branching bandage_making (subguild cap) branching brew (low cap)
- Tanning (merchant cap) branching leather_working (slightly above subguild cap) branching armor_making (slightly above subguild cap)
- Rope_making (merchant cap) branching basket_weaving (merchant cap) branching tool_making (merchant cap)
- usual psi powers, cooking, watch, etc

However, the documentation seems to suggest that merchants are largely supposed to fill this role already. Read help_merchant and you'll see what I mean - it suggests that they're descended from the old Dune Traders and know the ways of the desert.

[Delirium]

I just tossed the Dune Trader out there as a general idea for the skills it could eventually get, or that might make sense.  I fully expected it to be tweaked and fiddled with.

I like Quirk's modifications.

I do want to add, though, that my intention was to add a class that is suited to desert wandering, but was less combat-oriented than a ranger.  Merchant class PCs, while they can travel the deserts, are best suited to city life.

The 'Dune Trader' class would also be a more viable option for those who want to play merchant types in the south or in Luir's, and that was also an aim when thinking up potential skills.