Are Zalanthans Monotheistic, or is it just us?

[Angela Christine]

I was thinking about the Sorcerer-Kings being regarded as gods, and whether they would deny the divinity of their opponent Sorcerer-Kings.  When you  have a big old creator deity who is supposed to be all powerful and responsible for everything, that doesn't leave much room for other gods.  But in cultures where the gods aren't as powerful, there is room for other gods to be gods too, they just aren't our gods.

Some characteristics of Zalanthan God-Sorcerer-Kings:

1.  Not Omnipotent or All Powerful.  Very power, way more powerful than you, but they have limits.  Nobody asks goofy questions like, "Can Tek create a rock so heavy that even He can not lift it?"

2.  Not omniscient or All Knowing.  They are very well informed, but they don't know every thing.

3.  Don't take credit for creating the world.  Hey, with the mess the world is in, who would want to take credit for it?  No, these guys are happy to take credit for creating a single city, and declaring that city to be the bestest place in the Known World.

Given all that, it really isn't necessary to say that the other guy(s) are/were not really gods.  The other guy is clearly not your god, and not as good as your god, as kind as your god, or as powerful as your god, but he's still a god and much more powerful than any mere human/elf/dwarf/etc.


Calling the other guy Not Really A God At All could be dangerous.  Eventually it will occur to some citizens to think, "If people can successfully pretend to be gods, how do we know that our god isn't just another charlatan?  Maybe there are no gods.  Maybe ours is the false god and the guys in the other city were right all along.  Oh, the humanity!"   Leading to panic, rebellion, and a generally unproductive loss of confidence in the government.


So, do people living in a major city believe that there is only one god in all the world, and He rules this city, or are both cities ruled by gods?  Do people living outside the cities believe that both cities are ruled by gods (and there may also be other gods that the city folk don't even know about) or that neither city is ruled by a real god?

[Kelen]

A good question. I think -templars- refer to the leader of the city state they serve as a god.

But...there's other terms too...I think its like half-an-half....

You've got your die hard loyalists....in Tuluk, and allanak...

Whereas others who are not so big on the sorcerer-kings have saying and such like "What in Drov's name are you doing!?" Or...."Whira's acting strange these days no?"

I think some people refer to the elements as gods as well.

[Morrolan]

It's just us.

Really, though, there's no one answer for this question.

A better model to look at for kingship is the god-kings of Southeast Asia.  These kings ruled through perceived divinity of their own.  By that I mean that those around them truly believed that the kings were divine, and their wellbeing was intertwined with the wellbeing of the kingdom.

As for how individuals believed, there was probably a fair amount of variation, both at the centers of civilizations, and between them, among the tribes.

Just a few thoughts...

Morrolan

[SpyGuy]

This is a world inhabited by hosts of fantasy beasts, demons, monsters and other creatures beyond mortal comprehension.  Faith in a Sorceror King isn't necessarily monotheistic, but in many cases it's basically saying "My god/king is better than your god/king/demon and because of the power and protection he gives I serve him."  Only an idiot on Zalanthas would actually deny the existence of other powerful beings though I could see an argument for Nakkis insulting Tulukis by saying their god king is dead and they get by using mutants, tribals and other unwanteds for protection.

[Kelen]

I think magickers know this answer better than most...since they have had a real taste of power at their own free will...

But I don't have the karma to play a magicker...So I probably wouldn't be able to offer much insight into any useful opinions...

[Koala]

For me, Sorcerer Kings are just Kings of their own land, nothing more than that. At least to the common eye, there exists two well-known Sorcerer Kings.  Both of them are insanely powerful, but none of them is the God. Somehow I always compare them with Goa'uld (from Stargate). They know that they are not God, but they act as being one to increase their ruling power. One way or another, sooner or later, there will be a rebellion and Zalanthas will take another course as in Stargate the movie .

Reading Dark Sun material and paralleling that information to Zalanthas is not always accurate, but on Dark Sun, there is no God, only Sorcerer Kings exist. However, I believe that nothing can come to existence by its own, without divine intervention. So, I conclude that there is one true God on Zalanthas and we just don't know it yet . Or perhaps the city folk doesn't know about it yet due to the high cencor regulation carried out by Templars, who knows.


ps: for those who wish to check out what stargate is, please follow the links...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate
http://www.tv.com/stargate-sg-1/show/185/summary.html?q=stargate&tag=search_results;title;0
http://www.tv.com/stargate-atlantis/show/11415/summary.html?q=stargate&tag=search_results;title;1

[Larrath]

I don't think anyone average truly thinks of a Sorcerer-King as a deity.  Certainly not the Templars, though some might choose to act as if they did serve a deity instead of just a crummy old super-mega sorcerer.

I think there's a good reason why the Sorcerer-Kings don't pretend they're timeless gods - the Dragon.  As far as the history tells us, the reason Tektolnes, Tektolnes' dad or Muk Utep didn't oppose the Dragon when he rose to power is that none of them were born yet.  But if they claim that they're gods, where were they when the Dragon came?
Either they helped the Dragon turn the beautiful Zalanthas into what it is today, or they ran away to cower/did nothing, or they were soundly defeated.  Neither of the above options are particularly good if you want to have around 45% of the entire world population living in your city.

If they claimed to have created the world, people would wonder why they don't simply restore the world to its prior beauty.
...Come to think of it, why don't they do that?  Heh.

Anyhoo, the way I see it is that people regard the Sorcerer Kings as a superhuman (but not godly) ruler with so much power that merely explaining its extent could make a 100-year old defiler break down and run crying to his undead mommy.
The Sorcerer-King is an incredible power, and his nature is separate from Elementalism and Sorcery.  And the other guy is just a defiler.

I wouldn't count too much about the 'not omniscient' bit, by the way.

Tribals have their own beliefs; some regard one or both sorcerer-kings as gods, other regard them as defilers, and others still as demons, polymorphed tregils or clever inventions by the Templarate.

[Dre]

I would think that in their respective cities, they are indeed thought of as gods. For most intensive purposes they are, they can bend reality to their will with possibly some limits which only they would know and not the average commoner...its only in our culture that -God- whether you believe it exsist or not is:

The supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe.

Anything falling short of that we would consider powerful but not God.Its also been recently with our own scientific knowledge that -God- actually had to be that powerful for us to consider it -God- as well. I know it Tuluk it sometimes feels like Muk is 'God' and Tek is the devil. In nak i always got the feel Tek was -a- god and every one else were just powerful defilers.

That said, i hate Sorcerer-Kings(even the sandlord) and the general stability and peace they bring to their regions. Wish the dragon would come back, kill them all and let the cities decend into a chaotic struggle for power between the nobles. I sometimes wonder the role regular magickers would play without Templars to hold them.

[Angela Christine]

I don't think anyone average truly thinks of a Sorcerer-King as a deity.  Certainly not the Templars, though some might choose to act as if they did serve a deity instead of just a crummy old super-mega sorcerer.

I think there's a good reason why the Sorcerer-Kings don't pretend they're timeless gods - the Dragon.  As far as the history tells us, the reason Tektolnes, Tektolnes' dad or Muk Utep didn't oppose the Dragon when he rose to power is that none of them were born yet.  But if they claim that they're gods, where were they when the Dragon came?
Either they helped the Dragon turn the beautiful Zalanthas into what it is today, or they ran away to cower/did nothing, or they were soundly defeated.  Neither of the above options are particularly good if you want to have around 45% of the entire world population living in your city.

If they claimed to have created the world, people would wonder why they don't simply restore the world to its prior beauty.
...Come to think of it, why don't they do that?  Heh.

Who said anything about timeless?  I specifically said that they do not take credit for creating the world, just creating one city.

I would think that in their respective cities, they are indeed thought of as gods. For most intensive purposes they are, they can bend reality to their will with possibly some limits which only they would know and not the average commoner...its only in our culture that -God- whether you believe it exsist or not is:

The supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe.

Exactly.  That's why I used small g "god" rather than big G "God".  Their powers and characteristics are more like those of small g gods, the kind that are believed in by polytheistic groups like ancient Greeks, Romans, Norsemen, and plenty of others.  You can see these kinds of gods on Xena Warrior Princess, or Hercules -- very powerful, very petty, and limited in specific ways.  The g'ould in Stargate are a good example, from our perspective they obviously weren't gods, but many of their followers believe that they were gods.  Individual G'ould don't claim to be the only god, they just claim to be your god.


A god in a polytheistic system is much less powerful than the one(s) in the Abrahamic faiths.  With just one God he has to have more powers than Superman, because He is the only constant in the universe.  Even the most fanatical worshiper of the local God-King isn't going to try to attribute all the powers of the Abrahamic God to their local godling.  But that doesn't mean that they disbelieve that he is a god, they just have a different definition of what a god is.


These guys aren't the alpha and omega.  They came into existence at some point, and before that they did not exist.  They aren't necessarily immortal, a god can die, though it isn't easy.  They certainly aren't perfect.






I guess my question is, "Does it make sense to call the leader of the opposing city-state a false god?"  Or is it more sensible to say that he is a god, but he isn't our god, and he is clearly inferior to our god?

If I was a Templar, noble or soldier I wouldn't want to do anything to encourage the thought that people can pretend to be gods, because some of my authority derives from the supposed divinity of our glorious leader.  The god doesn't rule the world, just the city/empire, but knowing that your city is protected by a god is reassuring to the public.  The world outside the city is hellish, it takes a divine Protector to keep that at bay.


Angela Christine