Sleeping in pubs.

[Cuusardo]

I think that it's very logical for a thief to prey upon people sleeping in common sleeping areas.  Take an item from a couple different people, then leave.  

However, I think it's very twinky to strip a person naked when they're sleeping unless they're drugged, passed out drunk, or magicked into unconsciousness.  It would be nice if there was a way to prevent it, but until that happens, I am not going to use the sleep command in a place like that.

[adrien]

i hate it when you guard someone and people steal from them now thats pathetic

[Cegar]

No it isn't. If someone is laying down, can one person really cover everthing on them? Good thieves are very, very sneaky. Have you ever been to Europe? If you have, then you know what I mean. If you are a terrible guard, then of course even a mediocre thief will be able to sneak past your guard.

[moab]

Maybe  the failure rate for someone stealing in a sleeping room could be bumped up owing to the large amount of traffic through there?

On the other hand - being "on your own" in a place like Zalanthas is pretty unhealthy to begin with.

I think players (newbies, esp) have some odd assumption that _anyone_ else cares for the well-being of their character.

You have a friend or you make sure you're tough enough that you don't need one.

[Cegar]

Again, people with things to steal shouldn't sleep in PUBLIC sleeping areas and complain about getting stolen from. The virtual NPCs who sleep there are poor and have absolutely nothing of value, why should PCs who sleep there be any different?

[Cale_Knight]

Because the players who sleep in public areas with stuff to steal are newbies who don't know any better.

[Cegar]

No they aren't. Some newbies do, some don't. If the main problem is with newbies sleeping there, then add something to the sleep helpfile or room description. The point of the thread was to discuss a new, safer room being added, but I think it has devolved a bit.

[mangler]

When I wrote this thread, as Cegar said, I was suggesting some sort of new room for sleeping, or maybe some sort of code, for using the bormal sleeping commons safley.
However, whilst I was writing it, I also though about what cale_knight said, about newbies being stolen from, and that also is interesting, because thats the sort of thing I can imagine could tirn new players away, like if you were brand new and you appeared in the sleeping commons, maybe went mental, attacked the nearest thing you could see or whatever, or somhow got hurt, you sleep, wake up, got no weapons, no cash, no water, then get bored and angry, stop playing.
And when somone wrote about the only PCs who would sleep in the commons are newbies, I disagree, as you could easily be a middle class person, not rich enough to rent a flat or summin, say a hunter, but he does have some things of value, such as weapons and armour. He gets wounded, where does he sleep? And isn't it quite bad RP for him to, knowing he will get stolen from in the tavern, to be forced to like sleep in some remote place of the scrub plains, or salt flats, or summin, to regain HP.

[Agent_137]

what's the alternative, if you're unclanned?

Rent a backroom of a tavern, or rent an aparment, or find some even more public but off the way spot.

Ok, apartments aren't exactly easy to comeby, a public "hidey hole" of sorts has the same theft problems as a tavern sleeping commons. And renting a backroom where there's only a table is silly, it's clearly not made for sleeping off a huge wound.

Can you rent an apartment for the day? That would be a good solution and probably cut down on semi-public kanking. Heh.

Or have the tavern owners post a guard or two in the sleeping commons to prevent blatant thefts with no skill involved, to stop the big burly bynner from taking the pants from sleeping noob #3.

The guards wouldn't be so stout that they would stop all forms of theft, any skilled thief should be able to get past them, and krath, maybe they're even open to a bribe or three. But still, something to prevent the ease of which people are stolen from while sleeping.


Though, i do recall it's harder to steal from sleeping people now? right? wasn't there a code change that gave an echo to a sleeping person?
That's something.

[spawnloser]

Think about it.  Would you go to sleep in a big open commons area that isn't protected, in the middle of a big city known to have a strong criminal element?  Would you try to make friends so that your friend could watch your back and you could watch his when either of you need to sleep?  Would you possibly try to find some more out of the way place to sleep that people are not likely to frequent?

[Cale_Knight]

Think about it.  Would you go to sleep in a big open commons area that isn't protected, in the middle of a big city known to have a strong criminal element?

You might if you were new to the game and spawned in an area that describes everyone sleeping and that specifically says the room is safer than the rest of the city.

[spawnloser]

So suggest changing the rooms description a bit.  Come up with an edit of the description you think would more accurately instruct people.  Describe the people sleeping as having nothing worth stealing or being guarded by friends.  I don't think we need more places that should be safer.  If you want total safety, join a clan (which, to be honest, isn't truly 100% safe either) or rent an apartment.

[bloodfromstone]

As much as everyone may try to argue it, I reall think the way things stand is ridiculous.

Would you try to make friends so that your friend could watch your back and you could watch his when either of you need to sleep?

This works great if, for one, you have a person like that and they're online when you happen to need to sleep off some wounds. From a roleplaying perspective, it's a little silly, though. Unless you and this fellow are brothers, old comrads, or have some other reason to be practically joined at the hip, he is not going to be there every time your character needs to sleep. I'm not talking codedly. I've found it fairly rare that my PCs need to actually catch a nap, but people need to sleep, even when their bodies aren't ripped apart. I cannot imagine the majority of Allanak having their own little circles that take turns watching each other sleep. This may be the way to avoid this happening within the context of the game's code, but I find it to be pretty unrealistic and even a bit silly to picture a pair of grubby hunters standing guard at the base of a nasty cot, then switching off after 8 hours for every night, casual sleep.

Again, people with things to steal shouldn't sleep in PUBLIC sleeping areas and complain about getting stolen from. The virtual NPCs who sleep there are poor and have absolutely nothing of value, why should PCs who sleep there be any different?

Because PCs need stealable objects to survive. What is presented as the average commoner (I believe it was supposably something like earning 2 small every year or something. I can't remember exactly.) would not be able to survive in the gameworld. PCs need waterskins, food, money, weapons, clothing, and, if they do anything outside the gates, which might be what leads them to needing to sleep, stable tickets. Sure, if you have none of these things, you can sleep at the Gaj and only lose your worthless shirt, boots, and maybe that scrap of cloth you had tied around your wrist, but I imagine only a very, very few PCs aren't carrying a backpack with a handful of supplies in it.

Just as a disclaimer, I have never been to Europe, and I don't know what the stealing situation is there, but I imagine people only lose a thing or two. I imagine someone sleeping at the train stop wakes up missing their backpack and watch, or maybe their walkman and Jordans. I would be 100% okay with this if this is how it happened in game. If my grubby hunter woke up missing his waterskin and sword, I would be fine with it. This is not what happens. Unless you are extremely lucky, you wake up naked, or very close to it. The frustration comes in because this is silly, and because working your way up from nothing can be very hard on Zalanthas. Granted, that can be fun in and of itself, but not when you lose everything like that. It seems to me that something should be done to regulate this problem. Personally, I'm all for a slightly nicer sleeping area, with a guard or two, that you have to pay a small fee to use. Hell, it'd be extra spiffy if you could tip the guard a little extra to bump up how efficently he guards you.

[Cegar]

In my experience, I've never woken up or seen people wake up naked. I've always just lost weapons (if my char had any) or a backpack or coins. The last time I saw someone stripped naked while sleeping was with one of my first characters. Maybe the issue is worse than I thought, but in my personal experiences, I don't see sleeping people stripped naked.

[spawnloser]

Bloodfromstone, if you can't find someone to guard you that you trust, you have other options.

I still oppose any creation of MORE rooms for people to sleep in.

I support people finding their own solutions.  I support people suggesting description changes so that it is not suggested that the 'sleeping commons' rooms are safe to sleep in.

[jcarter]

If you need to prey upon newbies who don't know it's dangerous to sleep in a sleeping room and have no other choice, you shouldn't even be allowed to play a thief.

The fact that you can be stolen from in a place like that is dumb. Wouldn't one of those VNPCs notice you stealing the pants off someone or slicing off their backpack and taking it? And I'm certainly sure they'd like to report it too, since that means one less thief that might go after them.

[Cegar]

If you need to prey upon newbies who don't know it's dangerous to sleep in a sleeping room and have no other choice, you shouldn't even be allowed to play a thief.

The fact that you can be stolen from in a place like that is dumb. Wouldn't one of those VNPCs notice you stealing the pants off someone or slicing off their backpack and taking it? And I'm certainly sure they'd like to report it too, since that means one less thief that might go after them.

Well.... they ARE sleeping...

[Beldin]

It seems to me that there is a VERY simple solution to this whole problem that would make total sence IC.  Have a public dormatory in every city where the commoner PCs could pay a handfull of coins to sleep there for a bit and be at least *reasonably* assured that the guards will keep watch and catch anyone stealing.  A dormatory like that would probably be able to turn a pretty good profit actually considering how many NPCs would also need a safe place to sleep, so it shouldn't be too hard to pay for decent guards who would see most people sneaking around there, and would almost cirtainly see someone attempting to steal someone's pack, or for that matter their pants.

[John]

Someone can and will strip you naked and face no repercussions if you fall asleep or go unconscious in the streets.

I've often slept in common sleeping areas and been robbed blind once. If it ever happened again, I'd just report their asses. I wouldn't allow it to affect my roleplay by not sleeping there again.

I think a fairly decent solution would be to not allow worn backpacks to be stolen from a sleeping person. Really, how are you going to achieve that?

If they're sleeping on their stomach, which they must be if they have a backpack on their back and are still able to fall asleep, it's quite easy to simply cut the straps. I think a better solution is to simply not allow backpacks to be worn when sleeping.

If you need to prey upon newbies who don't know it's dangerous to sleep in a sleeping room and have no other choice, you shouldn't even be allowed to play a thief.

*sigh* Not everyone who sleeps in common sleeping areas are newbies. Can we lay this argument to rest now?

[Anonymous]

Sleeping and unconsious are two different things to me. I've had my pack stolen when sleeping and thats seemed okay to me. Just because i don't imagine anyone sleeping with the damn thing on, most likely i was curled up with it and someone swipped it.

The one time i was robbed blind was when my PC was blasted unconsious. It would have been perfectly alright with me, since i was knocked out cold ...except for the location, it was in front of the sanctuary(This happened couple RL years ago)with a templar in the room, and it was in the IC afternoon and its a busy place...i would assume someone noticed my PC getting his face blown off and a loud bang. I wished up for someone to animate the room or something but i was still almost a complete newbie and since i got no response...i rolled my eyes, figured the imms saw and ignored it thinking it was appropriate...it was their game so who was i to complain and i just move on with my PCs life abiet now a saddened newbie.