Climb

[Fragmented]

Looking for opinions from the players and staff as to whether or not climb should be a skill anyone can learn through use and failure, like pilot, or ride.

Personally, I believe it should be, since climbing on Zalanthas isn't anywhere near professional rock climbing using specialized equipment. It's instead a matter of grabbing the right places, and putting your feet in the right place, something anyone should learn through trial and error. I do believe however, that certain classes should get a higher cap then others who would not have the background/experience to excel in climbing. Subguilds offering climb would be just like subguilds offering ride or pilot. You start higher then others.

[UnderSeven]

I voted against.  

The thing is almost every single skill you could give an arguement for why someone should be able to learn it.  The skills a class can or can not get in a lot of ways shape that class.  Granted we're just talking climb, but climb is indeed a very class defining skill, a great deal of exploration depends on this skill or something else to use to get around it, which I think detracts some from the class.  Also I would like to point out that some climbing can be accomplished even without the actual climb skill.

I'm all for status quo on this one.

[flurry]

I never really thought about it, but I wouldn't have a problem with this as long as the caps were pretty low.   (I have no idea how hard it is for non-climbers to climb, though, FWIW.)

In fact, I think more skills should be able to be learned up to some fairly low (but with success rates higher than winning the lottery) cap even if they're not on your skill list.   (The recent discussion about rescue comes to mind.)

[Hymwen]

I do view the climb skill as being something akin to professional climbing. Having the climb skill doesn't just mean that you're capable of grabbing a brick and finding foothold, it means you can do things that ordinary people can't.

And even if you don't have the climb skill, you can still climb, just not very well, but climbing equipment will help. There's my reason for not giving climb to everyone. Not having the skill doesn't mean you can't climb, you'll just never be very good at it.

[Sephiroto]

Speaking as someone who does climb, I'll have to disagree with Fragmented.  While anyone can learn to climb to a degree, only certain people are natural enough at it to become very good at it.  Not only does it take the knowledge of "where to put your hands and feet" but you must know how to hold the rock, how to balance your body, and. . . about a million other things.  Strength and endurance also play a factor in real climbing, but skill is by far the largest.  In rock climbing you often times stick to flat or near-flat surfaces with friction.  If the placement and balance of your body and limbs is off tilt then it's likely that you'll "plummet to the ground below!".

In a short I'd say that at best non-climbers can reach possibly 10-15% the difficulty of natural climbers (those with the skill) through practice and I think that the game's code all ready reflects this.

[Intrepid]

Give the physical nature of Zalanthans and treacherous terrain of the world, I have to give this skill a definitive thumbs up to being available for everyone.

[Fragmented]

Just a few things I wanted to add..

Several people have mentioned the ability to climb even without the skill. While this is present, the fact that it's capped -so- low makes it pointless. Because climbing up is only half of climbing. Usually it's getting -down- that's far more painful and risky.

I knew someone was going to chime in claiming to be a professional or expert climber or whatever, and list a half dozen reasons why only certain people can climb, but I stand by the fact that everyone should have, through trial and area, a fair chance of successfully climbing all but the roughest terrain, say 50/50 at the worst. Most of us have climbed trees as children, and other things that we'd probably not even want to attempt as adults (most of us anyway). Climbing is something that comes naturally to the human being, just like swimming, and in Zalanthas, probably anyone who's humanoid and has fingers and toes would have -some- sort of natural talent for climbing. Again, in my original post, I suggested that those classes that branch or start with climb currently should of course have a higher cap, and I think this higher cap would show professionalism, or even raw talent that's probably not available in everyone.

[moab]

I say the same is true of any skill on Zalanthas.
My character who entered the game at 20 should be able to, at age 25 learn nearly any other skill - including backstab, poison, haggling (come on, how hard is that to learn, really?), value, parry, guard, rescue and climb.

It's true.  Putting skills inside of classes is a very artifical, very D&D approach to the game. Granted, it's part of the legecy of that which came before - but if we argue that one skill should be available to everyone you can't avoid asking about all the rest of the skills.

[Xygax]

You can already do some limited climbing without the skill.  I think it's fine as-is.

-- X

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Yes. I think it's fine as-is... I've had characters who didn't know how to climb manage to do some pretty amazing climbing... it just took a lot longer, and they had a lot more bruises to show for it.
The reason I wanted rescue to become a general skill (yes, I am Heroic Kank), is because, unlike climb, it seems impossible (or very, very unlikely) to succeed at rescue without the rescue skill.
If your chance to succeed at a rescue without the rescue skill was equivalent to your chance to succesfully climb without the climb skill, I'd be happy.
(Gosh, I hope that makes sense...)
EDIT: Fixed a typo that effected clarity.

[Fragmented]

And there's no way/chance of coding it to where you have a liklier chance to suceed at climb and not fall then actually climbing up? The whole reason I'd like to see climb made a skill everyone has isn't because I feel everyone should be able to get to sekrit spot x that requires climbing. It's becausing there are some nasty, nasty falls out there, and you don't get a check for every room as you plummet, unlike climbing upward. I'd be happy enough with a climb check for every room you plummet through. I mean, maybe you managed to grab that tree root.. or that bunch of scrub, or -something- to slow/stop your fall.

[Dalmeth]

I did actually have a character stop a fall once from high up.  It still hurt, but it wasn't as bad.

[Synthesis]

If you type 'u' or 'up' while you're falling, you will attempt to stop the fall.

It's not as good as an automatic climb check in every room you fall through, but it's something.

[X-D]

Had to vote no.

As much as I like the skill and hate when I have a PC without it.

The skill shows that you are a better then average climber.

Anybody can climb, even without the skill, just not very well, which, is the way it should be.

[Fragmented]

If you type 'u' or 'up' while you're falling, you will attempt to stop the fall.

It's not as good as an automatic climb check in every room you fall through, but it's something.

No shit? I didn't know that. Cool!

-is happy enough now

[Dalmeth]

Cool!

I can agree entirely with this statement.  Much thanks Synthesis.

[Angela Christine]

If you type 'u' or 'up' while you're falling, you will attempt to stop the fall.

It's not as good as an automatic climb check in every room you fall through, but it's something.

Down, East, West, etc., also seem to work, even if the direction you try to go in isn't a valid direction for the room you are in.

No shit? I didn't know that. Cool!

-is happy enough now

Of course if you are not a great climber you may be better off just falling.  Trying to stop and failing causes much more damage than just free falling, which makes sense since you are deliberately banging yourself into the wall (or whatever) repeatedly as you scramble to find a hand hold.  A long fall that might not kill you probably will if you fail to stop yourself 3 times before finailly hitting the ground.


Angela Christine