A Request to the Playerbase

[Vesperas]

Please, PLEASE, PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE (and, for the sake of getting my point across), PLEASE...

Stop contacting people to get their sdesc.


I just had this "encounter" where someone walked in, looked at me, and walked out before I could return-look (with an emote, so I was a quarter of a second slower).  Someone else entered the room with me, and this person returned, looked at the second guy, and then walked out again, all before being able to respond.

I then get this:

A foreign presence contacts your mind.
You sense a foreign presence withdraw from your mind.


For the love of your mother, STOP DOING THAT.

Why in the world do you need my description or sdesc, if you don't know my PC's name or never once spoken to him/her?  It may just be a peeve for me, but its begun to get too irritating to just let go.  I've had this done to me almost ten times within the last week and a half.

If you are idle enough to be able to come back and get my description and sdesc, and that of a second person, you can come back to roleplay, or spare a few seconds to see if I'll do anything, especially at an off-peak hour.

*huff*

[cyberpatrol_735]

I second this motion.

[Dalmeth]

I hate being "pinged" through the Way in general.  If you're going to contact someone, say something at least.

[Majikal]

Though I was very annoyed with this myself.. and it has ruined a few encounters of mine as well. Though it's something that can't really be fixed. My advice.. look at the skill next to contact.. it does exist. Starts with a B.. ends with ARRIER.. it's a nice ability, I promise.

[Gaare]

Although usually I do not do that, I can not understand why it should not be done? I mean what is the problem? Do you find it unrealistic?

[Quirk]

No, use of Barrier here would be silly. You probably want to be contacted by your character's friends.

This is only slightly less twinky than contacting someone you've never met, but I still don't think it's good RP. I'm not sure why you can contact someone by their cloak's keywords anyway...

I just had this "encounter" where someone walked in, looked at me, and walked out before I could return-look (with an emote, so I was a quarter of a second slower). Someone else entered the room with me, and this person returned, looked at the second guy, and then walked out again, all before being able to respond.

And this brings me to my pet peeve since returning to Arm.

EMOTE! EMOTE! EMOTE, DAMN YOUR EYES!

The percentage of characters I've run into who pass through a public place with PCs in, maybe stopping to look at a couple of people, and then move on without emoting once is depressingly high. I played for three hours on Saturday night, and kept a tally that ran up to something like 80% of the people passing through the tavern I was in not emoting at all.

Okay, RP isn't just about emotes. But you're hardly enthusing people to want to play the game by providing less emotey RP fodder than some NPCs. You want more players? Try doing your bit to make the world more immersive, then. Please. For me. For all of us. For the children.

[Quirk]

Although usually I do not do that, I can not understand why it should not be done? I mean what is the problem? Do you find it unrealistinc?

"Contact" implies that you know someone's mind well enough to distinguish it from others. This would suggest at the very least that you've met them in person, and witnessed them attempt to communicate, or do something else which might make them recognisable. If you're in their presence when you attempt to contact them, then you can probably rationalise it, but if you're not, then how're you going to tell their mind apart from anyone else's? How precisely does the colour of their cloak, say, help?

[Lizzie]

That happened to me a couple of times but I didn't even think it might be all that. I assumed someone knew of a character with my name, or something in my description. And they saw me in passing. And they wondered if I was the person they were told about. So, they tried my name, or something in my description, and got the correct person. And a few other times I just figured it was random people trying to find people by using keywords and got the wrong person with the same keyword by mistake.

It doesn't bother me too much and makes for interesting RP with "thinks" and asking people I know about this suspicious stuff going on in my character's mind, someone finding it and not saying anything. Ooooohhhh mysterious and spooky, what are people like that UP to, wonders my naive character

L. Stanson

[Gaare]

Although usually I do not do that, I can not understand why it should not be done? I mean what is the problem? Do you find it unrealistinc?

"Contact" implies that you know someone's mind well enough to distinguish it from others. This would suggest at the very least that you've met them in person, and witnessed them attempt to communicate, or do something else which might make them recognisable. If you're in their presence when you attempt to contact them, then you can probably rationalise it, but if you're not, then how're you going to tell their mind apart from anyone else's? How precisely does the colour of their cloak, say, help?

Actually, you have a good point.. though.. If IMMs would not like players to contact cloaked figures, I guess they would change the code. I mean, I see the situation as a fact of Zalanthas. I mean all people have some psionic abilities and they even can contact people's mind just thinking their clothing. That's simply how "the way" works.

[Hymwen]

It happens now and then. Especially on my first character, who happened to be named after my GDB username, it would for a while happen up to 10-20 times a day. I mailed the imms and said that I was suspecting someone was checking if I was online without any intention of actually sending me telepathic messages, so they checked some logs, and then it stopped. Still happens occasionally, but randomly enough that I write it off to keyword mix-ups.

But yeah, I know some people do that - they hear someone mention a name, and then they try and contact the person to see their sdesc. More than once have I met a complete stranger who would somehow know who I was, even without looking at me to see my mdesc.

It is damn annoying, though.

[Moofassa]

I really don't have a problem with people entering, taking a quick look, and leaving without emoting.

I don't do it, but that's cuz I like emoting.

I can see why people don't emote when they do something as trivial as this. What's the point? They're walking in, looking at a few people and leaving. The code has illustrated this perfectly. So you want to know how they're walking? How they're looking at the people? If they're bumping into a HG on their way out? Me too: but I don't think it's something to bug them about.

[Intrepid]

Actually, you have a good point.. though.. If IMMs would not like players to contact cloaked figures, I guess they would change the code. I mean, I see the situation as a fact of Zalanthas. I mean all people have some psionic abilities and they even can contact people's mind just thinking their clothing. That's simply how "the way" works.

"The code lets me" is never a good reason to do anything, Gaare.  It may not be
feasible to alter cloak keywords for the Way at the moment.

That said, if someone has common keywords, you may find multiple people waying
you, Vesperas.  I've accidentally contacted two people I didn't mean to just in the
past 48 hours of play.  There really isn't much to say to them, so I cease contact and
continue on my merry way.

[SpyGuy]

To the OP:  I'd find their actions annoying because it wasn't for the sake of RP.  It sounds purely like they were just out to get your sdesc for whatever reason and weren't even roleplaying that correctly.  Stuff happens, it's a minor annoyance and just let it slide I'd say.

Actually, you have a good point.. though.. If IMMs would not like players to contact cloaked figures, I guess they would change the code. I mean, I see the situation as a fact of Zalanthas. I mean all people have some psionic abilities and they even can contact people's mind just thinking their clothing. That's simply how "the way" works.

"The code lets me" is never a good reason to do anything, Gaare.  It may not be
feasible to alter cloak keywords for the Way at the moment.

I agree that the code isn't the end all of what is and is not appropriate.  That said if it were inappropriate or twinkish as so many people like to say I'd think staff would clearly state such.  I very rarely contact people by cloaks (meaning I did this maybe 3 times in the past year) and would prefer to see it removed entirely.  But I hate it when people begin to judge RP about the Way and make statements like Quirk's that:

This is only slightly less twinky than contacting someone you've never met, but I still don't think it's good RP.

Who ever said it was twinky to contact someone you never met?  If you have their name, or even a good description (ok that might be a little iffy) , I'd say it's very feasible.

I find most discussions on this subject to be people arguing what they want the Way to be like and the restrictions they want imposed on the Way.  I don't think most people really take into account that the Way is second nature to Zalanthians, that it does have real power and is a damn common tool used by everyone in society.  So until I see in docs a list of what is and is not appropriate for using the Way I'm going to argue that if the code lets you do it then it's probably how it should be.  The OPs problem sounds like OOC usage of the Way to get sdescs without any accompanying RP.  That's a problem with someone's RP not with the Way itself.

[Intrepid]

I agree that the code isn't the end all of what is and is not appropriate.  That said if it were inappropriate or twinkish as so many people like to say I'd think staff would clearly state such.  I very rarely contact people by cloaks (meaning I did this maybe 3 times in the past year) and would prefer to see it removed entirely.

I think it would be best to not do the above unless the staff gives a definitive blessing.
When in doubt, always err on the side of caution by default.  Just because they haven't
made an official statement does not mean they agree with your reasoning.

[Gaare]

Actually, you have a good point.. though.. If IMMs would not like players to contact cloaked figures, I guess they would change the code. I mean, I see the situation as a fact of Zalanthas. I mean all people have some psionic abilities and they even can contact people's mind just thinking their clothing. That's simply how "the way" works.

"The code lets me" is never a good reason to do anything, Gaare.  It may not be feasible to alter cloak keywords for the Way at the moment.

I am not saying, -in every case- whatever code allows is good enough to justify one's actions. That's mean to turn the sentence in that, you know. Peh!


Also I found this;

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=119370&highlight

[Kalden]

Since the staff has never said anything about this sorta stuff being twinky, I continue to do it if I feel like it. I also contact people that I've never seen before based on their names.

I asked here about a potentially very twinky situation and there was an ambivalent response:

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19552

If you really want to remain unidentified when you're doing something dirty, you have to put up your cloak and barrier. Then when you're done with whatever you're doing, change cloaks and take down the barrier.

nope, if we thought you shouldn't do it, we wouldn't let you do it via code. It's not twinky.

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19384

Since contact DOES give you the sdesc of the person when you contact them, I assume that it gives you a glimpse of their face. If not, then things should be changed. Hopefully someday they will.

[Malken]

How exactly does the 'Way' work? How is it that if I know someone's name, but never saw that person, I can just contact him or her and have some sort of psychic connection with them? Would you really be able to contact someone just by knowing their name only?

Do you just close your eyes and think deeply.. 'Amos.. Amos....' and suddenly you'll have a mental image of that person?

[Bebop]

You see someone in a cloak.  You concentrate on them and a connection with them pops into your head.  Just because someone has their hood up doesn't mean their facial features are entirely hidden.

This really doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

[SpyGuy]

How exactly does the 'Way' work? How is it that if I know someone's name, but never saw that person, I can just contact him or her and have some sort of psychic connection with them? Would you really be able to contact someone just by knowing their name only?

Do you just close your eyes and think deeply.. 'Amos.. Amos....' and suddenly you'll have a mental image of that person?

This is all unanswered but considering contact Amos works I would say it's a perfectly valid way of doing it.  Names, whether true names or aliases, have power in fantasy worlds as well as descriptions.  Just dom't expect to necessarily find the right Amos.

To Intrepid:  You're probably right, I don't like contacting cloaks but I don't think it's that big of a deal.  Barrier exists for a reason.  And I also feel if everyone erred on the side of caution then people would begin calling it bad RP to only contact people you've met in person, had a long chat with and learned the true name of.

[Quirk]

Who ever said it was twinky to contact someone you never met?  If you have their name, or even a good description (ok that might be a little iffy) , I'd say it's very feasible.

Really? How many VNPCs called Amos do you suppose there are in 'Nak? Codedly, sure, you may be able to get away with contacting Amos, getting the burly dirt-stained mul and suspecting he's unlikely to be Amos the florist and trying again and getting it right. But if we implemented the code in such a way that it took account of the number of virtual people called Amos in 'Nak, you'd be on the Way all friggin' day going: "You Amos the florist? No? You know Amos the florist? No? Never mind."  

True names are potent, sure. No arguments there (though my personal Imp of Perversity wants to point out that there's no guarantee they've given you their true name). But if you're going to contact someone who's not in your physical presence, and they've got the same true name as another thousand people in the city, and this is a particular problem given the lack of surnames on Zalanthas, how can you justify being able to find their mind unless you already know them personally?

And contacting someone you've never met via a description? That's more than iffy. That is way over the line into twinky. The number of people in any given city likely to fit the description you've been given is certainly going to be huge, and the only way you're going to get round it even without considering the VNPC population is by pretending that the blond-haired rangy man and the straw-haired lanky man actually have hair of subtly diferent colours, and different body shapes.  And that's even based on the assumption that it makes sense IC to find someone's mind based on their body type, and it's not just provided as a convenience for occasions when you're contacting someone whose mind you know quite well but don't have a name for.

Who says it's twinky? I do, and I'm willing to bet I'm not the only one.

[Dalmeth]

Well, if you think of the Way as simply you searching the world to find someone, then contacting someone you've never seen through the Way seems quite unreasonable.

However, if you think of Way as it's own little universe, with all psionic beings having their own little place inside, then it becomes more understandable to find someone you've never met.  That way, when you search for someone, you are looking through the Way focusing on certain physical characteristics, and then someone responds or resonates with that search.

[Gimfalisette]

I contacted someone I hadn't met. It was by accident, though. I was trying to talk to one templar and I got a different one. (I suppose I could have just "hung up" when I saw that I got the wrong one, but -that- would have been twinky.) That situation turned out to be very fun, and really scary, and pretty much changed everything for my character, as far as I can tell.

So I definitely don't think that contacting someone you don't know via the Way is twinky. There are also situations where you may have gotten a character's name through the IC board or something, so that's a clear invitation to Way them. However, contacting someone you don't know just to get an advantage of some kind, yes that's twinky.

[SpyGuy]

To Quirk:  A thousand people in Allanak may be named Amos, I'll give you that.  But what about more unique names?  Where do we draw the line on what is and isn't appropriate?

I'd also say that though some people may agree with you that doesn't make you right.  And I know from IC experience that plenty of people would agree with me since my characters have frequently been contacted by people who only knew my name.  And I've also contacted people as such and will continue to do so until an Imm tells me it's wrong.

I'd also point out it's an issue of playability.  Bob the Byn Sarge posts on the IC boards that he's recruiting, something that would ICly get spread around by some in the NPC and VNPC realm.  So are you saying I'm a twink if I contact Bob and ask if he's the right Byn Sergeant?  If you play that way more power to you but I have yet to see any staff posting or documentation to say that's wrong.

Halaster has said quite plainly it is NOT code abuse to contact someone by a name or an alias.  I don't like contact pinging and I don't like contacting people in cloaks JUST to get their sdesc.  This is an impossible argument to speak of realistically because obviously no one has psychic abilities on earth.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree unless staff weighs in on this one.

[Attana]

Contacting someone by knowing only their name?  Yes.  Contacting someone when you can see their facial features (ie. hood down)? Yes.  Contacting someone while their hood is up and you're in a different room as them?  No.

My reasoning for this...If you're out wandering in the desert, and someone with a hood is out wandering in the desert, and you walk into the room they're in, look at them and walk out and contact their "hooded description"... What's to say that they hooded person you stumbled upon wasn't quite a distance away from you and emoted that being so after  you spam looked and ran from the room?  What if they'd emoted their back being to you?  I'm all for contacting a hooded figure when youre in the same room as them, but contacting when you're not?  No.  If you're in the same room as the hooded someone, then you can emote attempting to get a sneak peek at their hooded features... contact away and bam!  

If someone's going to contact me based off my -hooded- description, and be in another room .. and -psi- something to me.  I'm going to ignore it and pretend it never happened and that my character never got mind-spoken to by Amos the butt wonder.

My two 'sids.

[Synthesis]

Actually, I believe an immortal has posted in another thread that exactly this sort of thing is fine.

And here's a handy-dandy link: http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11990&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

I think what he meant is, if you can see the person, you can contact them using their cloak keyword.  If they are no longer in sight...not so much.