Projects, Complaints, and Rewards.

[LoD]

The rather quick thread regarding the HRPT ended with Halaster's comment:

Poster removed her original post, so no point in this thread.

I think there is something to be gained from understanding what motives were involved in this thread because it touches on something that everyone has probably experienced at some point or another; disappointment.

Halaster has been working for quite some time on getting this HRPT scheduled amidst several challenges, technical and otherwise.  When the moons have finally fallen into alignment for this HRPT to move forward, he makes a post on the GDB announcing the great occasion.

What quickly follows is a post expressing disappointment at the timing of the HRPT because it will exclude European players and perhaps those that cannot stay up late enough during the weekday to attend.  The motive behind this comment is not negative, it's positive.  This post is saying, "I really want to attend something you've put together, and I'm disappointed that I, and others, won't be able to make it."  Perhaps the language bore some degree of frustration because the poster is genuinely disappointed and/or frustrated.

These kinds of comments can often be taken the wrong way.  It isn't a slam to the hard work someone has been doing.  It isn't a criticism of where your time could be better spent.  It isn't a "ho-hum" comment expressing disinterest in the material.  It's honest disappointment that they won't be able to take part in something you've planned.  That means they were excited about it.  They were interested in attending.  They were looking forward to enjoying what you had put together.

It sounds more like a compliment than a complaint.

What's my point?  My point is that the Imms work very hard to put quality experiences together for the players.  And when this disappointment was voiced, Halaster asked, "Remind me why we do this?"  Well, here's the answer.

You do it for players like Hymwen.  Who show up day after day interested in a game that you've helped shape and create.  Who show up day after day to use the product you're pushing.  Who want so badly to experience as much of what you've made that they feel disappointed and frustrated when they aren't able to attend.  This is exactly the type of person for which you do these things.  They are grateful, excited, complimentary, loyal, and addicted to the food you're cooking.

And, occasionally, they are disappointed and honest.  And I cannot fault someone for that.

-LoD

I never saw Hymwen's original post as it was removed but I can only guess, LoD, that Halaster simply wasn't impressed with the attitude and I'm sure there are other ways people can put forward their disappointment. I can only guess, again, and this is by no means a stab at Hymwen because we all know she means well that the post sounded ungrateful or negative.

I see where you're coming from, of course, LoD, and the boards are here for people to express their thoughts and opinions with honesty but we should be careful how we express that at times.

Drew

[bloodfromstone]

I'm in the same boat as drew, not seeing the original content, but I would like to second LoD's words. I used to be a terrible off-peaker and, at times, I would whine about no one in my clan being around. This was not because my clanmates sucked or the PC leader was doing a bad job. Quite the opposite. My clanmates were incredible, and the sergeant was even incredibler. It just sucked not to be able to get into the fun that was being created.

[moab]

LoD - you have a great way of reading into the likely motivation of that post.  I am impressed.

:-D

As a European player I suffer much the same problem with peak times but, as always, there are ways around the boredom:

1) Nothing's forcing someone to play when there's no one on. It's tempting to wait around in the hope something'll happen but if things get boring, go outside and see the sun or do whatever it is we're supposed to do when we aren't MUDding :p

2) Create some solo RP for yourself - I'm sure there are hundreds of posts archived or easily available from the 'search' option for help on how to do this.

I do think, regardless of how RPT times might have previously affected me on MUDs, that it doesn't excuse bad attitude or ungratefullness (again, this isn't directed at you, Hymwen) and in some cases, it depends how desperately you want to make it - there have been numerous occasions RPTs have been set for 3am in the morning but if it's worth going, it's worth going!

After all, this is a *Highly* Reccomended Playing Time - forget work, miss school and pfft to your granny's 200th birthday, you can make it

Drew

[Xygax]

Nice post, LoD.  Thanks for the well-phrased reminder.

-- X

(I hate doing me too posts, but this seems to warrant it.)

[Pantoufle]

(I hate doing me too posts, but this seems to warrant it.)

Likewise.

Good points, LoD, thanks.  As a player currently in a European time zone, I share some of the aforementioned grief.

[Halaster]

What Xygax said.  Thanks for the reminder LoD.  You're right, it's very easy to misunderstand what someone types, because it's text, and not real speech accompanied by body language, facial expressions, and so on.  I.e. it's very easy to misunderstand.  I took her post as a "you're a bunch of assholes for picking this time", which I shouldn't have.  She probably meant something like what you suggest.  So.. sorry Hymwen, if that is indeed what you meant.

[Intrepid]

I'm going to agree with this too, which is just odd--I don't think LoD and I are meant
to agree on anything--but the logic is there, and I've felt in the same boat on occasions
I've been silent about myself.

[Lizzie]

Since it seems safe in -this- thread, I'll post my thoughts.

This game has been a real lot of fun for me so far. I'm still trying to improve my understanding of the world and the syntax and getting into all those emoting things. I hope I'm doing good and haven't had anyone send me a complaint so I have to assume I am. When the HRPT was first cancelled I was actually sort of glad, because I was still way too new to really understand or get involved. I might still not get involved, but at least now I have the IC resources to understand WHAT I might not be getting involved IN. And I can be excited about that.

8:30 EST seems a very awkward time for a weekday event that's likely to last 4-5 hours. Europeans who are free on their European evenings won't be able to make it. Working/school-attending east coasters will have to either log out in the middle of it, or not attend at all. West coasters won't be done with their 9-5 jobs until it starts and probably will want to get home, have some supper, before Arming. So they'll show up in the middle of it, or not show up at all. It looks like the only people who -will- be able to attend, are kids whose parents don't mind them skipping supper/homework AND staying up late on a weeknight, people who don't work at all, and central time people [edited because I can't beleive I actually wrote central coast! ]. In a game with less than 150 logged in for an HRPT (judging by the posts about previous ones) that might only leave you with the usual prime time population. All that work for only 50-60 people to experience first-hand. It seems a shame, really, because it sounds like Armageddon HRPTs are so awesome that no one would -want- to miss them.

I'll be in the game for some of it, but I'll have to leave early. I'm looking forward to whatever bits of it my character -will- witness or get involved in. And I am disappointed that I won't be able to stick around to see the end of it.

L. Stanson

[Malken]

You also have to remember that as part of an HRPT, the actual 'big event' is also usually just as a small part of the roleplaying that actually occurs in the upcoming days, if not weeks, followed by the event

As exciting as being part of the 'main' Event might sound, it's usually only a small fraction of the players that really do get to participate, while everyone else get to see some echos of what's happening.. Most of the time, people are 'disappointed' as well if they ARE part of the HRPT, because they didn't get to see the huge flying dragon sweeping down on their character, or the Evil Sorcerer contacting their character to relay a message to Templar X.

So remember that even if you do not get to participate, it doesn't mean that you won't be involved in days, if not weeks, of roleplaying due to that HRPT that even those of have been part of it, may, or may not, get to see much happening..

I've been playing for way too long, and I've been part of some HRPTs, and I've missed some.. You just have to realize that you'll never get to be part of everything, like in any other games.

Hope it make sense

[jcarter]

I can understand both sides, but it seems that all of a sudden players just aren't paying attention to what is being said. That thread on stat ordering, for example. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp. The spambot situation, and the lag situations as well. Suggesting things when you don't have the specifics just gets obnoxious over time, and I'm sure the let's bitch about lag thread got on more than one person's nerves. "hey do you guys feel that lag" "yeah i do how bout u" "oh yeah i'm feelin it" "3:45 lag attack" "hey was that just a lag spike" and so on.

The HRPT was probably set at 8:30 PM for the availability that was best for most of the staff running it and the core people involved. It's a game, it's not that big of a deal if you have to miss a HRPT.

[SpyGuy]

I can understand both sides, but it seems that all of a sudden players just aren't paying attention to what is being said. That thread on stat ordering, for example. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp. The spambot situation, and the lag situations as well. Suggesting things when you don't have the specifics just gets obnoxious over time, and I'm sure the let's bitch about lag thread got on more than one person's nerves. "hey do you guys feel that lag" "yeah i do how bout u" "oh yeah i'm feelin it" "3:45 lag attack" "hey was that just a lag spike" and so on.

The HRPT was probably set at 8:30 PM for the availability that was best for most of the staff running it and the core people involved. It's a game, it's not that big of a deal if you have to miss a HRPT.

I agree with most of this post, and I especially agree with LoD's sentiments.  The lag was annoying for everyone, players and staff alike and sadly the current time scheduled won't work for some people.  Particularly a lot of those in European times unless they screw up their sleeping schedules (come on guys, you can do it!).

That said it's also pointless to complain about a gripe about the lag thread that gripes about the lag.  Sure a lot of it was pointless and the same thing, but it was a great place to vent frustrations.  It was also a great place for people who felt the lag unbearable to check up and see what was still happening.  The GDB has plenty of pointless threads, especially in OOC chatter, and if they annoy anyone it's best to just ignore them.

[Fnord]

:cry:  :cry:  :cry:

That was beautiful man.

[Dalmeth]

Well, I know that if they waited for a more convenient time for European players, they might have to put it off for another one or two weeks.  It's better if they bring closure to the events leading up to the HRPT sooner rather than later.

In truth, the lesson that can be learned from Hymwen's post is that if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.  Especially on a message board.

[Halaster]

I chose the time and date because that is what is most convenient to me - the one running it.

[John]

Suggesting things when you don't have the specifics just gets obnoxious over time

Well why not just close down a whole slew of the GDB because we just can't understand portions of the game because not everyone has the specifics?

and I'm sure the let's bitch about lag thread got on more than one person's nerves.

No-one had to read it. There's plenty of threads here I don't read.

[jcarter]

Well why not just close down a whole slew of the GDB because we just can't understand portions of the game because not everyone has the specifics?

Because there's a difference between 'I don't know the mechanics of this but it seems a bit odd that...'' as opposed to 'I have no idea whatsoever about the what's going but maybe it's the hard drive have you checked that", especially on such a broad issue as lag.

No-one had to read it.

When you skip a thread, you generally miss information that can be taken from within it. In the case of that thread, there were several staff updates on the siutation--it was the most pertinent thread on the situation, and it wasn't worth it to create a completely different one. No, people weren't forced to read it, but that still isn't really any excuse, any more than I can use it as an excuse to post a thread along the lines of "the official complain about John thread". What I said was my opinion because not everyone skips the same exact threads that you do. Sometimes useful information or insight can be gleamed from something that may have no practical use for me personally. Delving in any deeper to this is just going to come across as me backseat moderating, which I'd prefer to stay away from.

Sure a lot of it was pointless and the same thing, but it was a great place to vent frustrations.

That's the most rational explanation for it that I've seen for it.

[Hymwen]

My original post was merely:

Monday? *sigh*

...because Monday evening is, in my opinion, possibly the worst possible time at all for something like this. I'm not ungrateful that the event is finally being held, but the first three attempted HRPT's were in the weekend, and it's just so disheartening when something you've been eagerly anticipating for like a month is finally set on a date which converts to 2:30am on a european weekday. Not only that, but it's Monday, which is probably the worst weekday in the first place. I know that it's a matter of "when can the key people do it?", but I'd much rather have waited a week or even two and then have it on a day that doesn't rule out the entire european playerbase and a good chunk of the rest by default.

LoD was spot on, and part of it is probably just what I like to call 'european gamer frustration' - it happens in most online games that aren't based in Europe (i.e pretty much all of them). Because of timezones, we're more often than not ruled out, and we're extremely lucky if anything at all happens before midnight for us. It's bad enough that the mud is often almost completely dead until 8-9pm. Every time something like this happens (and I know it's not anybody's fault, and noone has to bend over backwards for anyone else) it takes a small chunk of your motivation to play away, at least for me. It's just very disappointing to see that something like this, even considering the circumstances, is scheduled for probably the worst conceivable time.

[Melody]

LoD was spot on, and part of it is probably just what I like to call 'european gamer frustration' - it happens in most online games that aren't based in Europe (i.e pretty much all of them). Because of timezones, we're more often than not ruled out, and we're extremely lucky if anything at all happens before midnight for us. It's bad enough that the mud is often almost completely dead until 8-9pm. Every time something like this happens (and I know it's not anybody's fault, and noone has to bend over backwards for anyone else) it takes a small chunk of your motivation to play away, at least for me. It's just very disappointing to see that something like this, even considering the circumstances, is scheduled for probably the worst conceivable time.

~comforts~ Come camp it out with me. I'll bake you cookies and muffins. I was disappointed too, at first, then I got cheered by the prospect that most of the people attending will be playing a different character on Tuesday. ^_^

[Halaster]

is scheduled for probably the worst conceivable time.

Not really.  The worst time would be when the staff running it couldn't make it.  It's actually a great time, because it can happen, heh.  One of the reasons I chose the time and date was because I do not want to wait another couple of weeks.  The HRPT is already overdue and events that led up to it and that involve it are already kinda skewed from what we had intended.  That's fine, we can roll with it, but I don't want to keep putting it off and making it even worse, in that sense.

I also have other things that are more important to me on the weekends.  It's actually kind of rare I can play on weekends - the ones I scheduled it so happen to have free time (which of course is why I chose those times), but that's not normally the case
.

[moab]

another cool thing 'bout showing up late for a HRPT is that you can l00t all the l33t g3@r!

I know all yo Euro players are totally pimped to the max.  :-D

[Nao]

It IS extremely frustrating (I think I'll show up anyway, screw those classes the next day).

In general, if you play off-peak, anything that happens, any plots that sound interesting seem to avoid you. and it's frustrating.... FRUSTRATING I tell you

You log off at midnight, and when you come back the next day, there was another great event - and you weren't there, again.

I don't mind the time of the HRPT that much, those happen so rarely that it's possible to stay up - I'm more frustrated about the curse of all plots avoiding me, always.

I'll shut up now and stop the rant.

[Vanth]

Hmm, maybe some off-peak players ought to apply for staff next time around.  Then they can get things going during those hours.

[Kelen]

Yeah, I just got on and apparently missed some things earlier... :?

But I thought I'd just post some massive props to both Saikun and the staff, looks like we finally cornered the lag problem. And, we know the rest of the staff were working hard as well.

SO thanks guys, we all appreciate you.