Nobles

[ale six]

What can nobles do for me?

1. Give me a job.
2. Give me protection.
3. Buy me supplies to craft things with.
4. Buy me weapons/armor to hunt with.
5. Buy me shady supplies to burgle/assassinate people with.
6. Pay templars to look the other way while I burgle/assassinate people.
7. Pay templars and militia to harass people I don't like, if they like me enough.
8. Set me up with a nice apartment.
9. Make me their concubine and give me hawt mudseks.

I'm sure you can think of more reasons if you need 'em.

As I said, most of it comes down to nobles being REALLY REALLY RICH compared to commoners, and in addition to being rich, being willing to invest in me if I can convince them I'll help them get ahead.

[Kelen]

I'll make one statement on this, I've lost a few characters by just running into a templar. One of my first characters got beat up by his half-gaint.

Now, It is fun to get involved sometimes, but All those characters that were involved with nobles and templars usually ended up dying to the same ones they served. It's just not an appealing lifestyle.

Oh, and, one of my most recent activities with a templar, happened to be an incident where my nose wasn't touching the ground, so that templar steps on my neck and walked across the room. If a certain noble or Templar is having trouble having people approach them, it might just be the image.

[marko]

Playing a noble can be difficult but it can also be incredibly rewarding.  

Two of my best characters ever were nobles.  I loved them and they accomplished a lot.  

A noble who wants to get something done has to involve PCs.

If one sits like a lump and ignores everyone then everyone will ignore the lump.  For all intents and purposes that character does not exist and is merely an npc.  

A commoner usually will not approach a noble unless they want to join the Noble House.  In Allanak, that's great, fine, and dandy since most noble houses have House Guards (aka special forces) and servant roles.

In the North, nobles can act as patrons to those who benefit the noble directly by having them as a partisan - the easy example is a noble who is thinking of having a sculpture of themselves made and thus becomes the patron of an aspiring sculptor.

On the flip side of this - a noble who's interests are in the arts would have no use or reason to have a partisan who is a hunter.  But, if said interested noble wanted to see a particular flower they could hire a hunter to retrieve it as a one-off.  No need to become the patron for that.

But the big thing here is this - if a noble feels they are being ignored it is probably because they aren't doing anything to make commoners think they should become known to the noble.

Playing nobility is a role that takes effort to establish a base amount of power and influence and then it takes a lot of effort to maintain that.  One screw up and you lose ground - and sometimes screw ups aren't even obvious.  Any gains made, patiently, over the span of RL months can be wiped out by a single mess up.

Being a noble is a social role.  Whether or not the noble character has aspirations for power and great projects planned does not change this.  A noble who just wants to be a noble and doesn't have any grand plans or projects in mind still gets to interact and enjoy the benefits of nobility.  There is nothing wrong with a noble wanting to do nothing so long as they are playing the role well.  

But, the point here is this, you are interacting with people as a noble.  If you aren't then why play the role?  

I've known nobles who spent the majority of their time in their estates and were considered by many to be very well played nobles - even sequestered away from the population as a whole they interacted with people and made their presence known.  They played the role actively and engaged many different characters through one mechanism or another without necessarily interacting directly with them.

Playing passively as a noble will just lead to an eventual storing of the character because nothing ever gets done and no one wants to interact with the character.  A lot of people make the mistake of going, "Here's my noble alright everyone line up to be in awe of my char."  It doesn't work like that.  To get that respect and power requires active participation.

[From a Noble Family]

This thread was not intended to become a thread about what a noble should do.  This thread was intended to point out that the noble caste often does not get used as it should be.  It was intended to spark a discussion about why commoners and templars should interact more often with nobles, and what they can do for each other.

[Anonymous]

I'll second the one poster's chagrin about the following all too common scenario:

Code Select Expand


the foobar commoner has entered from the west.
the foobar commoner looks at you.
the foobar commoner leaves to the west.
You think oocly,
   "Dammit! Come back here, you little... "


And it happens -exactly- like that. I don't know whether it's because people are too terrified of nobles/templars to initiate some form of role play with them, or whether it's because they've got no IC reason to attempt to interact with a noble; but the only PCs I typically get to interact with are the people I already employ (who are the ones who should be handling recruitment), high-scale merchants, templars, and other nobles.

And while that's -certainly- enough to roll some plot, it's easy to get caught up in "high level politics" that "low level players" (i.e. 'the commons') never see.

As a noble, I would be thrilled to have the chance to even chastise someone brave enough to walk up to me and ask me for a job.  And I would give them a job.  I would MAKE SOMETHING UP. Seriously, I'm all about some private celebrity deathmatch.

But noble aides, employees, merchants, other nobles, and templars are the quintessential crutches upon which nobles rely for interaction more often than not. If these people don't provide us with the reasons to interact with the commons, we ARE NPCs.

But, nobles also put on 'city events' - god how many bardic competitions have we had sponsored by templars or nobility? Or gladiator events? - and attempt to be the fundamental source of income for the populace - one way or another.  The Byn is -not- the only place to start. Merchants are -not- the only people who have interest in buying certain things.

Allanaki nobles should be untouchable and unapproachable, but doing so in spite of all that should not necessarily be a death sentence.

[Bebop]

If you are a noble and you want to see more interaction then interact.  PCs can't just approach nobles for random reasons.  As a noble it's your job as a leader to come up with things not the PCs around them.  From my experience nobles are usually very unapproachable, play their characters mercilessly (north or south) and sit around tavern sit.

Not the commoners fault.

[From a Noble Family]

Mercilessly sit on the couch?  If a noble did not want to be bothered by anyone, that noble would sit mercilessly in its bedroom behind a locked door with a barrier around its mind.

Nobility has servants for a reason, and one of those reasons is to serve as a conduit for communication.  If you don't want to talk directly to the noble, ask that noble's aide/guard/slave/love toy to speak with the noble on your behalf.

[Anonymous]

Exactly.

[Gimfalisette]

All players should always be looking for IC reasons for their characters to approach other players' characters, whether they are noble or commoner or templar or slave or whatever. Isn't that the heart of RP? For all that some players are good at solo RP and enjoy it, I doubt that anyone's here purely for that. Interaction is definitely a two-way street.

I think I'd be bolder about approaching nobles and even templars if I wasn't still a newbie. Once I know my way around the Zalanthas universe better, and once I've gotten over the fear that talking to a noble or templar means death for sure, then I'll definitely make it a regular part of my repertoire.

And heck, it's way more fun to do things when you have to get Amos to talk to Malik to talk to Lady Fale for you, I think.

[Anonymous]

And for real fun, put a half-giant somewhere in the telephone chain.

Oh boy.

[Gimfalisette]

And for real fun, put a half-giant somewhere in the telephone chain.

Oh boy.

I think that's part of the curriculum in "Talking to Nobles 301", isn't it? And I'm barely starting 101

[marko]

Bebop says it succinctly.  The onus for interaction is upon those who wish to interact.

That being said, here are a bunch of reasons why nobles, commoners, and templars can and often do interact.

South

A noble's first priority upon entering the game world is to establish a communication method with the rest of the common class by hiring aides and servants.  Therefore, initial reason to interact - the hiring process.

After servants and aides are hired the real fun begins.  This is where the noble pursues whatever objectives they wish to pursue.  They create plots, work towards projects, etc etc.  

Why do commoners approach nobles?  Because said noble has made it known that they are looking for X or Y.  Let's say it is the latest fashion craze to wear bahamet earrings - then commoners would know to approach the nobles (or their servants) to find out more and / or sell bahamet shell.

The noble may make it known that they wish to find out information.  Then those commoners who know things or deal in the information trade would know to approach the noble.

The point is - the noble first has to make it known that they are seeking something (anything) and then commoners will approach.

Otherwise, an ambitious commoner may take it upon themselves to approach a noble for employment or possibly to discuss some matter.  But really, there isn't much reason for a random reason to approach a noble since interactions between the classes is so aberrant and nobles are so holier than thou and know it.  Go through the servant channels for most things.

It's a little tougher in the south but it can be done.  The commoner simply has to have something they feel a noble might want.  Or wishes to get on a noble's good side.

North

The northern nobles have it easy.  Really easy for interacting with commoners.  

Nobles can take on partisans - which means any aspiring artisan can seek out a noble to entice them into becoming a patron.

There is no need for a buffering level between the common caste and the noble caste.  Nobles and commoners interact freely which is a throw-back to the days when the commoners hid and assisted the nobility during the Occupation of Tuluk.

This familiarity and casual level of interaction is further enhanced by the knowledge that any actual physical interaction is taboo and would never happen.  If it does happen both parties are destroyed.  That means nobles and commoners are free to interact and even become friends because everyone knows the limits.

To some this is somewhat counter-intuitive but it works for historical reasons and because the Caste system is so potent.  There is no need to act superior because they are superior.  There is no mixing of blood (like in the South) that blurs the lines which then leads to the necessity of constantly reinforcing the differences between noble and commoner.

Northern nobles should be approachable and willing to talk to any commoner.  That is where they are getting their real power in Tuluki politics - from their relationships with the commoners.  

Commoners can approach Tuluki nobles for anything and everything - it is in the best interests of both parties to do so.  Nobles gain prestige and power.  Commoners gain access to greater resources and protection.  Patronage is powerful and even one-off offers are advantageous and good.

In the North nobles don't need aides to act as a buffer - they need aides to act as assistants for when they get really busy.  If a noble has half a dozen partisans, a couple projects on the go, and is overseeing some event then an aide makes sense.  If a noble is just hanging out and having fun they don't need an aide (but an aide might be fun).  

Commoners can approach nobles directly - there is no need for buffering.  Historically there hasn't been buffering between nobility and the common caste since the Cataclysm.  PCs introduce the idea when they bring Allanaki concepts of nobility into Tuluk.  

Each of the Houses in the north have defined roles and a lot of great hook-ins for projects (Tenneshi construction, Winrothol slaving, Uaptal farming, etc etc) that can be used.  Again, nobles should make it known that they have particular needs to encourage commoners to seek them out.

So really, commoners have all sorts of reasons to approach nobility.  Basically anything you can think of - wanna go hunting but don't have a bow?  Approach a noble about it.  See if the noble can provide the bow in return for something.  

Starting out as a bard and need to fund living?  Go to a noble and get them as a patron.  Impress them and hook up.

Wanna start a band of mercenaries?  Great!  Go gab with a noble about their potential interest in supporting the group....

But, if this isn't happening, then it is because the noble is being played as aloof and unapproachable (or there is some other reason going on) - which the commoner PCs are simply respecting and running with.

[Seeker]

In the majority of my play, directly interacting with a noble on a serious level generally drastically shortens the life expectancy of my commoner nonmerchant PC's.


Seeker

[Intrepid]

Part of the problem is that nobles hate everyone but humans.  I don't think half-elves
and elves and dwarves were ever meant to be completely isolated portions of the
game, but they've certainly become exactly that.  Even the aides won't seem to want
to deal with them anymore, and the gameworld itself becomes partitioned off a bit more
each year because of it.  Yes, I realize that elves are untrustworthy and half-elves are
moody.  How is anyone ever going to even remember that if no one ever interacts with
them, though?  The game population is small enough that if a significant number of
players are playing the unmentionable races, the noble's pool of individuals to deal
with shrinks considerably.

[spawnloser]

Just to pick a few things out...

PCs can't just approach nobles for random reasons.

Not the commoners fault.

I have to disagree with these parts of your post, Bebop, at least in some small part.

Really, noone should ever approach anyone for a random reason.  There's a reason.  If that reason warrants approaching a noble is another thing entirely, and if you could approach another commoner for it, you could possibly approach a noble for it, provided you act appropriately and have something to interest that noble.  (I've done this a few times, so trust me on this one.  I've been 'hired' to do things by nobles that you wouldn't think would 'hire' the character in question.)

Thing is, EVERYONE should want the protection of people more powerful than they.  If commoner PC #! doesn't seek that, someone else like commoner PC #2 will.  If your commoner PC doesn't get noble protection/patronage, it is not the noble's fault.  It is the commoners for not seeking it.

Granted, a PC noble should make themselves interesting.  I played a noble with a love of cheese...was constantly seeking new cheeses to try.  You know what?  Noone, and I mean noone, ever thought to seek cheeses not available to any and every schmuck walking through town.  I would have LOVED it if someone went, "Hey, he really likes cheese, maybe if I get him some cheese he can't get readily, he'd remember me well?"  It's not about the PC noble making themselves interesting, it's about the PC noble making themselves have reasons to talk to people, which is easy enough, and making those reasons noticeable.  After that, it's up to the commoner.

[ale six]

If you're a different race than human, you can go through a noble's servants instead of the noble herself. As long as the noble isn't dealing with your ugly tainted self personally, I imagine she's less likely to be bothered, and if you're providing good service you should be fine. Smart aides may not want to admit to their noble they're getting gossip from an elf or breed anyway. Sure, it'll be harder than if you're a human, but when you created a non-human PC you should have realised the game was going to be harder anyway.

---

As a commoner, you should be afraid of templars period. You do not matter to them. Some templars probably kill five commoners a day just for fun. If you're not employed by somebody powerful who'll get pissed if you get hurt, you probably won't want to get a templar's attention..

Nobles should certainly be feared too, but here the fear should be of pissing them off rather than just being afraid in general. If you don't give a noble a reason to be annoyed with you you're probably okay. They won't just kill you for walking up to them (templars just might do that on a bad day). And as already established, being on a noble's good side is a very nice place to be.

---

I agree with a lot of what davien said re: nobles and interaction. I think a lot of noble players will stay up in their "high level politics" working on the plots they're already involved in, because so many "low level" players seem to avoid anyone in silk like the plague. And as much as I agree that nobles should be active and initiating things... Lady Borsail is not going to walk into the Gaj and offer your 'sid miner a job. If you want something from a noble it's up to you to go get it. (And the point of this thread is that people may not realise what all nobles can offer -- see my list of stuff earlier.) Just sitting at the bar while a noble is in the room doesn't mean they should be forced to give you something to do - and I think it's unfair to claim the noble is "doing nothing" if they don't.

On the flip side, nobles shouldn't be totally passive. They have lots of ways they can dig their hooks into people. Suddenly deciding to amuse themselves at the expense of some random commoner is usually IC for them, and oh look, there's one, let's pick him. (How convenient that he's the only other PC in the room, cos talking to vnpc commoners doesn't sound fun for too long.) Or, sometimes as an aide, my nobles would notice another PC commoner in the tavern and send me to talk to them instead of doing it themselves. That way, they can still listen to the conversation and decide if the commoner is worth their time or not, and meanwhile they've created some roleplay for two PCs.

---

Maybe some people could use this thread to post about past noble PCs they liked and what made them interesting and fun to interact with, if that would help the conversation at all?

[From a Noble Family]

Spot on, ale six!  This last post of yours and the one about what nobles can do for you are exactly the kinds of things I was aiming for when I started this thread.  I hope that people (especially you timid newbies out there who are still getting your feet wet) will read those and get some good ideas from them.

[Vesperas]

For me....  I'm almost almost exclusively southern player.  And the simplest and truest excuse I can come up with for not interacting with nobles, is... well, nobles are just scarier than the templarate.

1.)  It's easier to find a templar (with the exception of a particularly social Fale).  They actually enter the realm of the common masses.  Nobles.. well, do not.

2.)  Templars are far more accessible.  Nobles just like [spice/other nobles/insert some vice here] and always plainly annoyed if bothered, and that discourages my PC from bothering them ever again.  Would YOU bother someone who had the powers to make you go "poof" with a facial twith?

In the north, I havn't had nearly as much trouble making out a difference between 'templar' and 'noble' -- both are equally scary to me.

[Armaddict]

I think people should use the request tool more to give props to those they think are doing a good job as a noble, and those they think aren't getting people involved enough.

In my opinion...it may be easy for a noble to think they're doing a good job with such, while popular opinion may say otherwise.  This is also vice versa.

While I know nobles have nice money and such, I hesitate to call it their -duty- or -job- to get all the random commoners involved in plots.  Sometimes, I just don't think it's suitable.  Likewise, I don't like the idea that nobles of certain houses should be -actively- carrying out this single role of the house...nobles are PC's too, who have an individual progression like a commoner PC.  It's just another role being played, and putting ooc obligations on a character kind of sucks.

On the flip side, I -do- think that the money given to nobles should be used in ways more constructive than building up a wardrobe or weapon collection.  That's a hobby, and really...I don't think the stipend of a house being used frivolously would be much incentive for that noble to continue receiving a generous amount of coin.  Spare coin used for such is well and good, as are things to keep you from hoarding -huge- amounts of coin...but try to put the coin to a use where the coin is required.

[Fnord]

On the opposite side, i've seen leaders (sometimes nobles) that were so popular they pulled a noticeable chunk of the playerbase into their fold. Been a while though, at least down south. Is that a nice problem to have?

[Ava]

All right, nobles: can you give us commoner-types some concrete examples of interactions that a generic noble character might welcome?  What can J. Random Amos do for you?

I'm aware (thanks to some of the posts in this thread) of what a noble can do for me...but why and when they would is harder for me to grasp.

[From a Noble Family]

All right, nobles: can you give us commoner-types some concrete examples of interactions that a generic noble character might welcome?  What can J. Random Amos do for you?

I'm aware (thanks to some of the posts in this thread) of what a noble can do for me...but why and when they would is harder for me to grasp.

For example, you could approach a noble, and ask the noble's guard if the noble is free to speak with you.  If the answer is yes:

"Good day Chosen Lord/Lady/Lord/Lady Fancy pants (depending on which city you're in).  My name is Amos, and I am a woodcarver/dancer/good fighter/etc.  I was wondering if you were looking for the services of someone like myself."

[Seeker]

For example, you could approach a noble, and ask the noble's guard if the noble is free to speak with you.  If the answer is yes:

"Good day Chosen Lord/Lady/Lord/Lady Fancy pants (depending on which city you're in).  My name is Amos, and I am a woodcarver/dancer/good fighter/etc.  I was wondering if you were looking for the services of someone like myself."

Which is fine if you are currently unclanned (understanding that in the northlands this is much less an issue), have developed skills that are marketable, and actually wish to have a Noble all up in your business.

In my experience, this approach is a recipe for having the rest of your character's existence becoming entirely beholden to the fickle, selfish scheming whims of whatever Noble you approach with such an offer.


Seeker

[Armaddict]

In my experience, this approach is a recipe for having the rest of your character's existence becoming entirely beholden to the fickle, selfish scheming whims of whatever Noble you approach with such an offer.

So...what is it you want, exactly?  Free money?  Sociable nobles?  If you want interaction with a noble, there -are- going to be things to take into account.

[Cale_Knight]

So...what is it you want, exactly?  Free money?  Sociable nobles?  If you want interaction with a noble, there -are- going to be things to take into account.

Yeah, but that was in response to a noble's request for how to interact with them as a commoner.

If the only way to RP with a noble is to basically sell yourself to them, I can understand why many PCs simply choose not to interact at all.