Nobles

[From a Noble Family]

DISCLAIMER: This thread is not intended as a flame or a criticism.  It is not directed at anyone in particular, and is a general observation.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the general attitude toward nobility in the game seems to be that they are just there, occupying space.  It also seems that templars expect nobles to just do anything for them without anything in return, and it seems that commoners don't think nobles can do anything for them.  In general, it seems that no one bothers to even attempt bribing nobles for anything.

Yes, I am fully aware that there are exceptions to my observation.  They seem to be few and far in between, however.  I hope this thread inspires people to bring nobles more into their roleplay.  For all you newer folks who aren't sure how to do it, don't be afraid to approach a noble through their servants.  Nobles can do a lot, and I hope more people see this.

[Dalmeth]

I can sympathize with this view.  I see alot of nobles just sitting around and doing nothing.  Alot of this is due to the separation they are supposed to have from the masses.   Commoners simply don't consider approaching nobles about anything.

[Delirium]

Dalmeth:  How do you know they're doing nothing?

They could be busy with the Way, they could be working on their political contacts.

People seem to equate doing physical work with doing 'something' - not always true.

[Dalmeth]

Huh?  Just sitting there, using the Way is just about as good as doing nothing in regard to the original poster's commentary.  The issue of this post is how commoners have so little interaction with nobles.

Physical work is not the issue.  Meet in person.  It's always more fun to meet in person, anyway.  Besides, you don't make new contacts through the Way, you just manage your own little cadre.

[Malken]

First, I'd never want to play a noble.. The sitting on the couch for hours while everyone around you is having a good time is not too far from reality.

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Born into wealth and power, most nobles expect to be treated with respect by those of inferior or common blood. Their social status allows them to interact with templars as equals, and to expect special consideration from the templarate when it comes to dealing with commoners.

I edited my post because, boy, was I wrong after reading this.. I always thought that Templars were above Nobles, it certainly seem that way to me as I play the game..

[Morfeus]

Second, why would I want to bribe a noble when I can just cut the middle man and go where the real power is, the Templars?

I think this is part of the problem. Are templars really only people with power? Aren't there things nobles could do as well or even things only nobles could do?

One thing I totally agree with: people are not bribing nobles enough. People are not bribing anyone enough, but in case of nobility it is even more visible. Even worse in cases you want the noble to do something for you - why would s/he agree if you offer him nothing for his/her time?

[From a Noble Family]

First, I'd never want to play a noble.. The sitting on the couch for hours while everyone around you is having a good time is not too far from reality.

If you think that that is all nobles do, you are mistaken.

Second, why would I want to bribe a noble when I can just cut the middle man and go where the real power is, the Templars?

This is part of the problem.  Nobles have a great deal of power, and are (at least they should be) much more accessible than templars for this sort of thing.

If it wasn't the case, then I'd certainly see how bribing a noble might be useful.. But for now.. I'm not sure my character would see the point of doing so.

It is unfortunate that you see things that way.  A noble is far more likely than a templar to take an interest in the affairs of a commoner, and far more likely to help with the problems of a commoner.  Let's say you are being harassed by someone, as a general example.  A templar will likely blow you off unless it is something that threatens the security of the city, or his own business.  A noble is far more likely to take interest and stop the person from harassing you.  Why?  Because templars often don't have the time to deal with such matters, and nobles do.

[Hymwen]

In my experience, nobles rarely give you a reason or opportunity to bribe them. Few of my characters have had any significant interaction with nobles, and I've never been in a situation where bribing one would serve any purpose because Templars are the police and nobles tend to not care whatever the hell you do (again, that's from personal experience).

[A Different Noble]

When I first got accepted for a noble role, I vowed that I would always Make Things Happen. I would never sit by myself in a tavern, I would always create roleplay, no one would ever accuse me of "doing nothing".

The sad reality is that sticking to the above is really really hard. It's challenging to be a noble. Your role exists in a large part to create roleplay for others, because you often can't do things directly yourself. You are forced to employ minions to do everything from fetching your mul mix to assassinating your enemies, while you sit around and sip wine waiting for them to get it done. And this isn't a bad thing, but I really don't think critiscising a noble because she isn't visibly outwardly doing something is warranted.

Consider also that many times it simply is hard for nobles to be able to realistically approach commoners about things. I can't even count the number of times this has happened to me:

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The Trader's Sanctuary
     You are sitting here, alone and bored. A bunch of NPCs are in here too but they're all too cool to roleplay with you.

> The tall, muscular man has arrived from above.
You think, oocly:
    "Yay! Another PC is here!"

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> look muscular (with a brief glance)
With a brief glance, you look at the tall muscular man.
This man is tall and muscular and completely common and uninteresting and wearing a bunch of common and uninteresting gear.
The tall muscular man is in excellent condition.
You think, oocly:
    "Hmm, so he's just an average commoner, need to think of a reason to actually care about him.

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>The tall, muscular man looks at you.
*insert a ten second pause here while you're wracking your brain trying to think of something to do with this guy besides turn up your nose and sniff at him*
You think, oocly:
    "I've got it! I'll ask him to --"

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> The tall, muscular man walks up.
You think, oocly:
    "Damn it!"

Okay, so the example was simplified a bit, but my point is that it's harder for nobles to find reasons to approach commoners than it is for commoners to approach nobles. And there are lots of good reasons a commoner could have to do that. But the commoners need to make themselves get noticed. As desperate as you can sometimes be for something to do when playing a noble, ICly your character still needs good reason to burden themself with the peasantry.

[Malken]

Oh, don't get me wrong! I'd really love to be able to bring nobles in my roleplay, but like I said (before I edited my post with the help file on Nobles), I think that currently, where I play, and I've seen this happening for a long while now, Templars are much more accessible and 'friendlier', even helpful, to the population more than Nobles are.. At least that's how I see it, with my current character.

From my point of view, it seems to me that Nobles just want to do their own thing, with their own House members and be left alone.

If you could give us some ideas on why we would want to bribe a noble, I'd be more than happy to try and introduce it in my roleplay.

I would also like to add that in no way do I want to criticise players that take on the role of Nobles.. I've got much respect to anyone that takes on a role that is mostly for creating roleplay opportunities for other players more than for themselves.

[Dalmeth]

The fact is that Templars have a much better image in regard to seeming to care about the average commoner with their role as the police of the city.  They are the enforcers, of course they care about what's going on.

I'd suggest nobles try inviting single commoners over to them and interrogate them on gossip and other trivial matters.  Be condescending as you should be, and try to make them a little uncomfortable.  Make it just seem like you're trying to entertain yourself by poking fun on some random dope from the crowd.

[marko]

When discussing nobility and / or templars please indicate which city you are talking about.

Nobility in Tuluk is fundementally and significantly different than nobility in Allanak.  

In Tuluk, it is expected that nobles are approachable and should be actively attempting to bring more commoners into their realms of influence by assisting them.  That's what patronage is about.

In Allanak, it is slightly more difficult to be directly involved with commoners but it is doable.  You can achieve an awful lot by treating commoners for what they are - toys, pets, or tools.  

I've seen many nobles who expect the game to come to them and power to simply accumulate.  It doesn't work like that in either city.  To gain in prestige, power, and influence you have to earn it and work for it.

[John]

One thing I totally agree with: people are not bribing nobles enough. People are not bribing anyone enough, but in case of nobility it is even more visible. Even worse in cases you want the noble to do something for you - why would s/he agree if you offer him nothing for his/her time?

If I want a noble to do something for me, I'll bribe them. But what could a noble do for me, Amos Commoner? Now a templar can find out who broke into my apartment, look the other way when I commit crimes and provide me with a license (for merchanting, thieving or even killing).

[From a Noble Family]

I don't think that people should see templars in either city as more friendly or more approchable than the nobility.  Templars should be more feared than that.

[ale six]

Bribing a noble seems backwards to me. Especially if you're a commoner, most members of even the junior nobility already have more wealth than your character could realistically imagine.

Nobles have Money with a capital M. This should be plenty reason to interact with them no matter who you are. As Naiona said in a thread a while back, nobles aren't given four and five-digit stipends just so they can buy hats in fifteen different shades of chartreuse.

A somewhat amusing way to view a noble is as a venture capitalist. They have lots of money to throw around and are usually on the hunt for good things to invest in - templars, assassins, aides, bodyguards, hunters, spies, etc. Convincing a noble to lend you the force of their checkbook can be a HUGELY powerful thing. I had a burglar who was on the payroll of a noble house and oh man could she afford nice stuff. So rather than trying to bribe nobles for things, I'd be more focused on trying to get -them- to pay -you- for services. If you're going to bribe them, at the very least offer something other than sid.

As far as political power goes, at the PC levels, most nobility and templars are on fairly equal footing. Nobles have enough money to be bribing a templar or two consistently for favors, and will be doing so if they're smart. Templars are also more likely to listen to the noble dropping sid into their pocket than the whiny commoner wasting their time, which is an important fact to keep in mind.

I've seen and played with some very powerful and influential nobles, who got a lot of big things done even if they never got much exposure to the common PCs. IMO saying that nobles are introverts who want to do their own thing inside their House and be left alone is pretty far from the truth.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I hear a lot of talk about bribing nobles.  Be aware of how this must be done.  In Allanak, bribing a noble with coins is futile, because nobles already have a great deal of coins.  In fact, one of the most important things that a noble in Allanak can do for you (and a templar can't) is give you money.  Instead of bribing them with money, you should offer them useful services, information, and items in order to win their favor.

In Allanak at least, thinking that a templar is friendlier, cares more about you, or is more interested in your well-being than a noble is just WRONG.  In Allanak, dealing with a templar should be the last thing on anybodies mind, while dealing with a noble is a rather pleasant alternative.  Templars gain in prestige by building a reputation of being cruel and merciless, and immediately slaughtering anybody who disagrees with or annoys them.  A noble on the other hand, gains reputation by being relatively generous and benevolent.  Therefore, a noble has nothing to gain from killing you for no reason, while a templar very well may.

Of course, if Allanak is currently full of friendly templars and aloof nobles, then the point is moot.  But without a doubt, this is how Allanak should be.

[Hymwen]

Seems to me that:

In Allanak, nobles are less visible. Rarely seen, rarely going out in public and very "behind the scenes".

In Tuluk, nobles are visible, but are glued to the couch in the Sun King's Sanctuary (okay, a little exaggarated, but still) and basically ignoring everything that goes on around them.

There are exceptions to both, but that's generally how it appears to me.

[Larrath]

A point that most people seem to miss is that, as a rule (and many times in practice), templars don't really care about your character.  Templars are not your friends, templars are people full of mystical powers and forbidden knowledge, and they all have a very clear purpose: to keep the order in their city-state.
They simply don't see the world the way most other people see it, and their concerns are completely different.

The sheer distance between a templar and everyone else becomes more apparent the more powerful the templar is.  The fact is, and I'm sure everyone knows this, is that a black-robed templar is so mind-bogglingly powerful that one of them could most likely pop up out nowhere five hundred leagues away from Allanak, take on four reasonably powerful defilers at the same time, and still emerge victorious.
And yet these black-robes don't seem to prowl the streets hunting down sorcerers.

Templars aren't exactly people the same way a commoner, a noble or even an elementalist are people.  They care about the city-state and sometimes they also care about their personal standing.
That said, unless your character is an extremely prominent commoner, there's very little you could do to boost a templar's standing.

And that's what you need to remember.  Even if a templar is nice, polite and they listen to you, it doesn't mean they care.
Symapthy (and help, as long as the city-state itself isn't threatened) is much, much easier to get from a noble than it is from a templar, and this makes nobles more dependable.
Nobles are also easier to understand - they're rich, they're super-smart, but they're still ordinary people with generally nonmagickal problems.

All this said, bribing a noble is harder than bribing a templar.  I can't really see someone slipping a Borsail Noble a pouch with 100 'sids.  Of course, there are still other wares and goods that can be delivered...

[Gaare]

Nobles with  house merchants at least should be the people whom make the wheel turn. I believe a noble/templar/house merchant player must be ashamed if s/he finds himself sitting in a tavern without doing anything but glancing (Considering there are more then 10-15 players around).. Then.. people would really care and see nobles not only silk clad people whom must be showed some respect, but powerful figures. There are a lot of threads about playing some good leader in ARM.

PS.

      (i) For case of templars do not give more importance to nobles.. well.. I guess Noble House influence on templarates should be more visible/affective.
      (ii) A bit detrailment but.. I think (i) is true for Merchant Houses as well. I  hate to see a family merchant to be killed by a templar like a mere commoner.

[Delirium]

To note:  Bribing nobles with coin is useless.

Bribing them with things, services, or information is far better.

Just in case it hasn't already been said.

[A Different Noble]

I'd suggest nobles try inviting single commoners over to them and interrogate them on gossip and other trivial matters. Be condescending as you should be, and try to make them a little uncomfortable. Make it just seem like you're trying to entertain yourself by poking fun on some random dope from the crowd.

I've tried to do this. It's harder to do than it sounds. Yes, nobles in general should be more approachable and care more about the commoners than templars do, but that doesn't mean it makes any more sense for them to want to sit and listen to Minor Amos telling them how Crafter Malik is kanking Aide Jade.

As I said, giving yourself a reason to be picked out of the crowd (or approaching the noble yourself) will go a lot farther towards getting noticed and starting something than just looking like part of the nondescript unwashed masses. If you want to -avoid- notice, on the other hand, that's a good strategy.

In Allanak, nobles are less visible. Rarely seen, rarely going out in public and very "behind the scenes".

In Tuluk, nobles are visible, but are glued to the couch in the Sun King's Sanctuary (okay, a little exaggarated, but still) and basically ignoring everything that goes on around them.

Nobles tend to like upscale places, so you're more likely to find them in the Trader's or the Sanctuary than you are the Barrel or the Tembo's Tooth. In the case of them being "less visible" in Allanak I think that's because few people but nobility and templars actually hang out at the Trader's, which is why no one else ever sees them.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

The problem, I guess, is the question of "what can this noble do for me?", coupled with "will I be useful to this noble?" unless the answers are "something" and "yes", respectively, then you will probably never have to deal with that noble (they're certainly easy enough to avoid... all you have to do is never step in the Trader's/Sanctuary).
These questions are more easily answered when the noble in question (and, by extension, the noble house in question) has a certain reputation. There is already a pretty brilliant IC example of this in Allanak, with the relationship between House Oash and gemmed magickers. You a magicker? You got a gem? You want work? Well, then go see an Oashi. It's pretty clear-cut.
I'd like to see more of this in general. I think will the re-opening of Fale, we'll soon see every PC southern bard vying for their patronage, which will be good. Maybe Tor is well-known for employing the T'zai Byn constantly? Maybe Borsail is constantly putting out contracts on escaped slaves, deserters, and general riff-raff, making Borsail very popular with local head-hunters and contract-killers? I think if each noble house had a more clearly-defined "niche", then we'd see a lot more commoner-noble interaction in general.

[Malken]

I haven't had the pleasure of playing in Allanak in over five years, at least.. So my points were mostly about Tuluk Nobles and Templars.  

[John]

I haven't had the pleasure of playing in Allanak in over five years, at least.. So my points were mostly about Tuluk Nobles and Templars.  

I hope that's just the one char for you (If so you're one lucky bastard).

[From a Noble Family]

Seems to me that:

In Allanak, nobles are less visible. Rarely seen, rarely going out in public and very "behind the scenes".

In Tuluk, nobles are visible, but are glued to the couch in the Sun King's Sanctuary (okay, a little exaggarated, but still) and basically ignoring everything that goes on around them.

There are exceptions to both, but that's generally how it appears to me.

Maybe those nobles go to those taverns in hopes of finding someone for something.  It's true that the nobles can reach out to the commoners, but they will reach out to the ones who draw their attention for whatever reason.  If you want the attention of a particular noble, do something to get it.  That noble might be ignoring you because you haven't given him reason to pay attention to you.

Communication and interaction is a two way street.

[ale six]

What can nobles do for me?

1. Give me a job.
2. Give me protection.
3. Buy me supplies to craft things with.
4. Buy me weapons/armor to hunt with.
5. Buy me shady supplies to burgle/assassinate people with.
6. Pay templars to look the other way while I burgle/assassinate people.
7. Pay templars and militia to harass people I don't like, if they like me enough.
8. Set me up with a nice apartment.
9. Make me their concubine and give me hawt mudseks.

I'm sure you can think of more reasons if you need 'em.

As I said, most of it comes down to nobles being REALLY REALLY RICH compared to commoners, and in addition to being rich, being willing to invest in me if I can convince them I'll help them get ahead.

[Kelen]

I'll make one statement on this, I've lost a few characters by just running into a templar. One of my first characters got beat up by his half-gaint.

Now, It is fun to get involved sometimes, but All those characters that were involved with nobles and templars usually ended up dying to the same ones they served. It's just not an appealing lifestyle.

Oh, and, one of my most recent activities with a templar, happened to be an incident where my nose wasn't touching the ground, so that templar steps on my neck and walked across the room. If a certain noble or Templar is having trouble having people approach them, it might just be the image.

[marko]

Playing a noble can be difficult but it can also be incredibly rewarding.  

Two of my best characters ever were nobles.  I loved them and they accomplished a lot.  

A noble who wants to get something done has to involve PCs.

If one sits like a lump and ignores everyone then everyone will ignore the lump.  For all intents and purposes that character does not exist and is merely an npc.  

A commoner usually will not approach a noble unless they want to join the Noble House.  In Allanak, that's great, fine, and dandy since most noble houses have House Guards (aka special forces) and servant roles.

In the North, nobles can act as patrons to those who benefit the noble directly by having them as a partisan - the easy example is a noble who is thinking of having a sculpture of themselves made and thus becomes the patron of an aspiring sculptor.

On the flip side of this - a noble who's interests are in the arts would have no use or reason to have a partisan who is a hunter.  But, if said interested noble wanted to see a particular flower they could hire a hunter to retrieve it as a one-off.  No need to become the patron for that.

But the big thing here is this - if a noble feels they are being ignored it is probably because they aren't doing anything to make commoners think they should become known to the noble.

Playing nobility is a role that takes effort to establish a base amount of power and influence and then it takes a lot of effort to maintain that.  One screw up and you lose ground - and sometimes screw ups aren't even obvious.  Any gains made, patiently, over the span of RL months can be wiped out by a single mess up.

Being a noble is a social role.  Whether or not the noble character has aspirations for power and great projects planned does not change this.  A noble who just wants to be a noble and doesn't have any grand plans or projects in mind still gets to interact and enjoy the benefits of nobility.  There is nothing wrong with a noble wanting to do nothing so long as they are playing the role well.  

But, the point here is this, you are interacting with people as a noble.  If you aren't then why play the role?  

I've known nobles who spent the majority of their time in their estates and were considered by many to be very well played nobles - even sequestered away from the population as a whole they interacted with people and made their presence known.  They played the role actively and engaged many different characters through one mechanism or another without necessarily interacting directly with them.

Playing passively as a noble will just lead to an eventual storing of the character because nothing ever gets done and no one wants to interact with the character.  A lot of people make the mistake of going, "Here's my noble alright everyone line up to be in awe of my char."  It doesn't work like that.  To get that respect and power requires active participation.

[From a Noble Family]

This thread was not intended to become a thread about what a noble should do.  This thread was intended to point out that the noble caste often does not get used as it should be.  It was intended to spark a discussion about why commoners and templars should interact more often with nobles, and what they can do for each other.

[Anonymous]

I'll second the one poster's chagrin about the following all too common scenario:

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the foobar commoner has entered from the west.
the foobar commoner looks at you.
the foobar commoner leaves to the west.
You think oocly,
   "Dammit! Come back here, you little... "


And it happens -exactly- like that. I don't know whether it's because people are too terrified of nobles/templars to initiate some form of role play with them, or whether it's because they've got no IC reason to attempt to interact with a noble; but the only PCs I typically get to interact with are the people I already employ (who are the ones who should be handling recruitment), high-scale merchants, templars, and other nobles.

And while that's -certainly- enough to roll some plot, it's easy to get caught up in "high level politics" that "low level players" (i.e. 'the commons') never see.

As a noble, I would be thrilled to have the chance to even chastise someone brave enough to walk up to me and ask me for a job.  And I would give them a job.  I would MAKE SOMETHING UP. Seriously, I'm all about some private celebrity deathmatch.

But noble aides, employees, merchants, other nobles, and templars are the quintessential crutches upon which nobles rely for interaction more often than not. If these people don't provide us with the reasons to interact with the commons, we ARE NPCs.

But, nobles also put on 'city events' - god how many bardic competitions have we had sponsored by templars or nobility? Or gladiator events? - and attempt to be the fundamental source of income for the populace - one way or another.  The Byn is -not- the only place to start. Merchants are -not- the only people who have interest in buying certain things.

Allanaki nobles should be untouchable and unapproachable, but doing so in spite of all that should not necessarily be a death sentence.

[Bebop]

If you are a noble and you want to see more interaction then interact.  PCs can't just approach nobles for random reasons.  As a noble it's your job as a leader to come up with things not the PCs around them.  From my experience nobles are usually very unapproachable, play their characters mercilessly (north or south) and sit around tavern sit.

Not the commoners fault.

[From a Noble Family]

Mercilessly sit on the couch?  If a noble did not want to be bothered by anyone, that noble would sit mercilessly in its bedroom behind a locked door with a barrier around its mind.

Nobility has servants for a reason, and one of those reasons is to serve as a conduit for communication.  If you don't want to talk directly to the noble, ask that noble's aide/guard/slave/love toy to speak with the noble on your behalf.

[Anonymous]

Exactly.

[Gimfalisette]

All players should always be looking for IC reasons for their characters to approach other players' characters, whether they are noble or commoner or templar or slave or whatever. Isn't that the heart of RP? For all that some players are good at solo RP and enjoy it, I doubt that anyone's here purely for that. Interaction is definitely a two-way street.

I think I'd be bolder about approaching nobles and even templars if I wasn't still a newbie. Once I know my way around the Zalanthas universe better, and once I've gotten over the fear that talking to a noble or templar means death for sure, then I'll definitely make it a regular part of my repertoire.

And heck, it's way more fun to do things when you have to get Amos to talk to Malik to talk to Lady Fale for you, I think.

[Anonymous]

And for real fun, put a half-giant somewhere in the telephone chain.

Oh boy.

[Gimfalisette]

And for real fun, put a half-giant somewhere in the telephone chain.

Oh boy.

I think that's part of the curriculum in "Talking to Nobles 301", isn't it? And I'm barely starting 101

[marko]

Bebop says it succinctly.  The onus for interaction is upon those who wish to interact.

That being said, here are a bunch of reasons why nobles, commoners, and templars can and often do interact.

South

A noble's first priority upon entering the game world is to establish a communication method with the rest of the common class by hiring aides and servants.  Therefore, initial reason to interact - the hiring process.

After servants and aides are hired the real fun begins.  This is where the noble pursues whatever objectives they wish to pursue.  They create plots, work towards projects, etc etc.  

Why do commoners approach nobles?  Because said noble has made it known that they are looking for X or Y.  Let's say it is the latest fashion craze to wear bahamet earrings - then commoners would know to approach the nobles (or their servants) to find out more and / or sell bahamet shell.

The noble may make it known that they wish to find out information.  Then those commoners who know things or deal in the information trade would know to approach the noble.

The point is - the noble first has to make it known that they are seeking something (anything) and then commoners will approach.

Otherwise, an ambitious commoner may take it upon themselves to approach a noble for employment or possibly to discuss some matter.  But really, there isn't much reason for a random reason to approach a noble since interactions between the classes is so aberrant and nobles are so holier than thou and know it.  Go through the servant channels for most things.

It's a little tougher in the south but it can be done.  The commoner simply has to have something they feel a noble might want.  Or wishes to get on a noble's good side.

North

The northern nobles have it easy.  Really easy for interacting with commoners.  

Nobles can take on partisans - which means any aspiring artisan can seek out a noble to entice them into becoming a patron.

There is no need for a buffering level between the common caste and the noble caste.  Nobles and commoners interact freely which is a throw-back to the days when the commoners hid and assisted the nobility during the Occupation of Tuluk.

This familiarity and casual level of interaction is further enhanced by the knowledge that any actual physical interaction is taboo and would never happen.  If it does happen both parties are destroyed.  That means nobles and commoners are free to interact and even become friends because everyone knows the limits.

To some this is somewhat counter-intuitive but it works for historical reasons and because the Caste system is so potent.  There is no need to act superior because they are superior.  There is no mixing of blood (like in the South) that blurs the lines which then leads to the necessity of constantly reinforcing the differences between noble and commoner.

Northern nobles should be approachable and willing to talk to any commoner.  That is where they are getting their real power in Tuluki politics - from their relationships with the commoners.  

Commoners can approach Tuluki nobles for anything and everything - it is in the best interests of both parties to do so.  Nobles gain prestige and power.  Commoners gain access to greater resources and protection.  Patronage is powerful and even one-off offers are advantageous and good.

In the North nobles don't need aides to act as a buffer - they need aides to act as assistants for when they get really busy.  If a noble has half a dozen partisans, a couple projects on the go, and is overseeing some event then an aide makes sense.  If a noble is just hanging out and having fun they don't need an aide (but an aide might be fun).  

Commoners can approach nobles directly - there is no need for buffering.  Historically there hasn't been buffering between nobility and the common caste since the Cataclysm.  PCs introduce the idea when they bring Allanaki concepts of nobility into Tuluk.  

Each of the Houses in the north have defined roles and a lot of great hook-ins for projects (Tenneshi construction, Winrothol slaving, Uaptal farming, etc etc) that can be used.  Again, nobles should make it known that they have particular needs to encourage commoners to seek them out.

So really, commoners have all sorts of reasons to approach nobility.  Basically anything you can think of - wanna go hunting but don't have a bow?  Approach a noble about it.  See if the noble can provide the bow in return for something.  

Starting out as a bard and need to fund living?  Go to a noble and get them as a patron.  Impress them and hook up.

Wanna start a band of mercenaries?  Great!  Go gab with a noble about their potential interest in supporting the group....

But, if this isn't happening, then it is because the noble is being played as aloof and unapproachable (or there is some other reason going on) - which the commoner PCs are simply respecting and running with.

[Seeker]

In the majority of my play, directly interacting with a noble on a serious level generally drastically shortens the life expectancy of my commoner nonmerchant PC's.


Seeker

[Intrepid]

Part of the problem is that nobles hate everyone but humans.  I don't think half-elves
and elves and dwarves were ever meant to be completely isolated portions of the
game, but they've certainly become exactly that.  Even the aides won't seem to want
to deal with them anymore, and the gameworld itself becomes partitioned off a bit more
each year because of it.  Yes, I realize that elves are untrustworthy and half-elves are
moody.  How is anyone ever going to even remember that if no one ever interacts with
them, though?  The game population is small enough that if a significant number of
players are playing the unmentionable races, the noble's pool of individuals to deal
with shrinks considerably.

[spawnloser]

Just to pick a few things out...

PCs can't just approach nobles for random reasons.

Not the commoners fault.

I have to disagree with these parts of your post, Bebop, at least in some small part.

Really, noone should ever approach anyone for a random reason.  There's a reason.  If that reason warrants approaching a noble is another thing entirely, and if you could approach another commoner for it, you could possibly approach a noble for it, provided you act appropriately and have something to interest that noble.  (I've done this a few times, so trust me on this one.  I've been 'hired' to do things by nobles that you wouldn't think would 'hire' the character in question.)

Thing is, EVERYONE should want the protection of people more powerful than they.  If commoner PC #! doesn't seek that, someone else like commoner PC #2 will.  If your commoner PC doesn't get noble protection/patronage, it is not the noble's fault.  It is the commoners for not seeking it.

Granted, a PC noble should make themselves interesting.  I played a noble with a love of cheese...was constantly seeking new cheeses to try.  You know what?  Noone, and I mean noone, ever thought to seek cheeses not available to any and every schmuck walking through town.  I would have LOVED it if someone went, "Hey, he really likes cheese, maybe if I get him some cheese he can't get readily, he'd remember me well?"  It's not about the PC noble making themselves interesting, it's about the PC noble making themselves have reasons to talk to people, which is easy enough, and making those reasons noticeable.  After that, it's up to the commoner.

[ale six]

If you're a different race than human, you can go through a noble's servants instead of the noble herself. As long as the noble isn't dealing with your ugly tainted self personally, I imagine she's less likely to be bothered, and if you're providing good service you should be fine. Smart aides may not want to admit to their noble they're getting gossip from an elf or breed anyway. Sure, it'll be harder than if you're a human, but when you created a non-human PC you should have realised the game was going to be harder anyway.

---

As a commoner, you should be afraid of templars period. You do not matter to them. Some templars probably kill five commoners a day just for fun. If you're not employed by somebody powerful who'll get pissed if you get hurt, you probably won't want to get a templar's attention..

Nobles should certainly be feared too, but here the fear should be of pissing them off rather than just being afraid in general. If you don't give a noble a reason to be annoyed with you you're probably okay. They won't just kill you for walking up to them (templars just might do that on a bad day). And as already established, being on a noble's good side is a very nice place to be.

---

I agree with a lot of what davien said re: nobles and interaction. I think a lot of noble players will stay up in their "high level politics" working on the plots they're already involved in, because so many "low level" players seem to avoid anyone in silk like the plague. And as much as I agree that nobles should be active and initiating things... Lady Borsail is not going to walk into the Gaj and offer your 'sid miner a job. If you want something from a noble it's up to you to go get it. (And the point of this thread is that people may not realise what all nobles can offer -- see my list of stuff earlier.) Just sitting at the bar while a noble is in the room doesn't mean they should be forced to give you something to do - and I think it's unfair to claim the noble is "doing nothing" if they don't.

On the flip side, nobles shouldn't be totally passive. They have lots of ways they can dig their hooks into people. Suddenly deciding to amuse themselves at the expense of some random commoner is usually IC for them, and oh look, there's one, let's pick him. (How convenient that he's the only other PC in the room, cos talking to vnpc commoners doesn't sound fun for too long.) Or, sometimes as an aide, my nobles would notice another PC commoner in the tavern and send me to talk to them instead of doing it themselves. That way, they can still listen to the conversation and decide if the commoner is worth their time or not, and meanwhile they've created some roleplay for two PCs.

---

Maybe some people could use this thread to post about past noble PCs they liked and what made them interesting and fun to interact with, if that would help the conversation at all?

[From a Noble Family]

Spot on, ale six!  This last post of yours and the one about what nobles can do for you are exactly the kinds of things I was aiming for when I started this thread.  I hope that people (especially you timid newbies out there who are still getting your feet wet) will read those and get some good ideas from them.

[Vesperas]

For me....  I'm almost almost exclusively southern player.  And the simplest and truest excuse I can come up with for not interacting with nobles, is... well, nobles are just scarier than the templarate.

1.)  It's easier to find a templar (with the exception of a particularly social Fale).  They actually enter the realm of the common masses.  Nobles.. well, do not.

2.)  Templars are far more accessible.  Nobles just like [spice/other nobles/insert some vice here] and always plainly annoyed if bothered, and that discourages my PC from bothering them ever again.  Would YOU bother someone who had the powers to make you go "poof" with a facial twith?

In the north, I havn't had nearly as much trouble making out a difference between 'templar' and 'noble' -- both are equally scary to me.

[Armaddict]

I think people should use the request tool more to give props to those they think are doing a good job as a noble, and those they think aren't getting people involved enough.

In my opinion...it may be easy for a noble to think they're doing a good job with such, while popular opinion may say otherwise.  This is also vice versa.

While I know nobles have nice money and such, I hesitate to call it their -duty- or -job- to get all the random commoners involved in plots.  Sometimes, I just don't think it's suitable.  Likewise, I don't like the idea that nobles of certain houses should be -actively- carrying out this single role of the house...nobles are PC's too, who have an individual progression like a commoner PC.  It's just another role being played, and putting ooc obligations on a character kind of sucks.

On the flip side, I -do- think that the money given to nobles should be used in ways more constructive than building up a wardrobe or weapon collection.  That's a hobby, and really...I don't think the stipend of a house being used frivolously would be much incentive for that noble to continue receiving a generous amount of coin.  Spare coin used for such is well and good, as are things to keep you from hoarding -huge- amounts of coin...but try to put the coin to a use where the coin is required.

[Fnord]

On the opposite side, i've seen leaders (sometimes nobles) that were so popular they pulled a noticeable chunk of the playerbase into their fold. Been a while though, at least down south. Is that a nice problem to have?

[Ava]

All right, nobles: can you give us commoner-types some concrete examples of interactions that a generic noble character might welcome?  What can J. Random Amos do for you?

I'm aware (thanks to some of the posts in this thread) of what a noble can do for me...but why and when they would is harder for me to grasp.

[From a Noble Family]

All right, nobles: can you give us commoner-types some concrete examples of interactions that a generic noble character might welcome?  What can J. Random Amos do for you?

I'm aware (thanks to some of the posts in this thread) of what a noble can do for me...but why and when they would is harder for me to grasp.

For example, you could approach a noble, and ask the noble's guard if the noble is free to speak with you.  If the answer is yes:

"Good day Chosen Lord/Lady/Lord/Lady Fancy pants (depending on which city you're in).  My name is Amos, and I am a woodcarver/dancer/good fighter/etc.  I was wondering if you were looking for the services of someone like myself."

[Seeker]

For example, you could approach a noble, and ask the noble's guard if the noble is free to speak with you.  If the answer is yes:

"Good day Chosen Lord/Lady/Lord/Lady Fancy pants (depending on which city you're in).  My name is Amos, and I am a woodcarver/dancer/good fighter/etc.  I was wondering if you were looking for the services of someone like myself."

Which is fine if you are currently unclanned (understanding that in the northlands this is much less an issue), have developed skills that are marketable, and actually wish to have a Noble all up in your business.

In my experience, this approach is a recipe for having the rest of your character's existence becoming entirely beholden to the fickle, selfish scheming whims of whatever Noble you approach with such an offer.


Seeker

[Armaddict]

In my experience, this approach is a recipe for having the rest of your character's existence becoming entirely beholden to the fickle, selfish scheming whims of whatever Noble you approach with such an offer.

So...what is it you want, exactly?  Free money?  Sociable nobles?  If you want interaction with a noble, there -are- going to be things to take into account.

[Cale_Knight]

So...what is it you want, exactly?  Free money?  Sociable nobles?  If you want interaction with a noble, there -are- going to be things to take into account.

Yeah, but that was in response to a noble's request for how to interact with them as a commoner.

If the only way to RP with a noble is to basically sell yourself to them, I can understand why many PCs simply choose not to interact at all.

[Gimfalisette]

In my experience, this approach is a recipe for having the rest of your character's existence becoming entirely beholden to the fickle, selfish scheming whims of whatever Noble you approach with such an offer.

Well, just thinking about things from the player's perspective, noble players probably get somewhat starved for RP, so if someone is brave enough ICly to approach them, then it's going to be normal impulse to continue to try to engage ICly. Isn't that what we all do, once we've met someone at the tavern? "Oh hey Amos, I'm SO glad you came in, come help me with this thing..." But nobles of course have to maintain a particular IC attitude of selfishness etc. or they get accused of being "too nice."

I haven't played a noble (obviously, since I'm still a noob), however it sounds like a really tough role. Can't approach commoners yourself; can't be too nice or really interactive or interested when you're approached; yet you're supposed to create things for people to do and involve people; yet again, supposed to stay at arm's reach...A bunch of big catch-22s.

[marko]

All right, nobles: can you give us commoner-types some concrete examples of interactions that a generic noble character might welcome?  What can J. Random Amos do for you?

I'm aware (thanks to some of the posts in this thread) of what a noble can do for me...but why and when they would is harder for me to grasp.

Here are some that should work just fine in the north:

tell lord Chosen Lord, care for a game of cards?

tell lady Chosen Lady, do you have a moment to speak about whateveritishousedoes

tell lord Might I buy you a drink?

tell lady I was hoping to talk to you about X.

tell lord I would like to introduce myself to you.  I am so blah.

tell lady Hi!  I'm X.

Anyway - just talk to the Lord or Lady in question and don't worry about the guards.  Some lords or ladies in the north might get kinda miffed but most wouldn't be.

The South - make certain you go through their aide, guard, servant, whatever.   Bow and then bow some more.  Be subserviant.  The are better than you and you have to show that at all times.  Therefore something like:

tell noble's guard (bowing as he approaches ~noble table) Does Lord Borsail have a spare moment to speak with me regarding X?

tell noble's guard (bowing really low and getting ready to lick the boots of ~noble) I have discovered something that may interest the Lord Oash.  Please inform him I am available at his earliest convenience.

tell noble's guard (wetting their lips and fretting with the hem of his shirt) I wants ta talk to tha Lord 'bout some stuff.  Yah know.. quiet stuff.  So, tell 'im I'm here neh?

Anyway - the point - In the North just approach a noble about anything.  

In the South - go through the buffer layers between the greatness of nobility and the lowness of being a commoner.  Approach through their minions.

The when is whenever they are alone and looking bored.  

[Anonymous]

Assassination attempts are always fun.

Offers of interesting news and information is typically going to pique noble interest - especially if it's about the doings of some competing house. This is information that many nobles may not otherwise have because their minions are many and obvious (and thus not privy to the doings of any competent opposition).

Bards, believe it or not, are welcome - provided that they are interesting and suited for noble ears.

If you have Cool Stuff (tm) to sell - i.e. things that may not otherwise be found in the common marketplace. If you're able to come up with a story that makes it cooler, hey, all the better.  I personally think more people should -attempt- to swindle the rich and famous.

Slaves... since the noble houses are the only dealers. Let's say you're poor and you've got a kid you want to sell off for some quick 'sid, or you have given up on earning a living as a freeperson... Don't laugh. If you can convince a staffer to provide you with an NPC - or EVEN BETTER you can come up with a willing PC to do this, there's big money in something like this. Even if you volunteer to be the slave, you could earn some interesting benefits.

Beggars are always entertaining. You may not -get- anything other than a boot to the face or roughly shoved aside, but you're very unlikely to be killed for it if the nobles/templars in question have half a brain... and persistence can lead to some interesting role play.

Bastard children of a noble (see swindle, above) can be interesting - although you should mail the staffmember over that noble house before doing something like this to, at least, give warning.

I think the main fallacy I see with the noble/pc interaction concept is that it must necessarily be some form of long-term until-death-do-we-part relationship. That's simply not so.

And let's not forget, that entertaining yourself with a friend while in the presence of nobility is still fair game. What I hate the absolute most is when people all go into a tavern, sit at their very separate tables, and use -talk- constantly about absolutely frigging nothing.

Sure, it cuts down on spam, but if the only way you can get interaction out of it is for people to use you to max their listen skill, they're still not as likely to interact with you because they weren't -supposed- to overhear you.

Sit at a table, start up a rowdy effin' game of cards or a drinking game, or a dicing game, and use TELL rather than talk.

Open the door so that the others may walk through.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Davien...

...that is an excellent post.

I don't know how long you've been back, but you've been missed, if for nothing else but your posts.

Kudos.

[Cenghiz]

To tell the truth, I'm confused.. I don't get what the problem is.

In North, nobles are already social.. At least the last noble I saw was. If you're a merchant, offer your goods. If you're something else, offer your service and wait. He'll ask you what you want as an award already.

In south, as people have said, the usual way to approach any noble - including templars - is approaching to a guard. If the guard is a PC, whisper him your wish. If he's a NPC, tell guard (in a hushed tone) and wait because the templar has the power to emote for the guard. Do your business and go away. If you've nothing to fear - you've nothing to fear already. They're able to kill your char at whim, but you only lower this chance by offering your service. Why would they kill someone useful.

I've been killed only once by a noble, it was my mistake 100% and other than that, all my relations with nobles caused wealth and social power for my character.

Communication may only be harmful if the noble is the wrong person to speak to. You want to sell arrows? Find the quartermaster. Ask the guard who the quartermaster is, but not to the noble. You want to become recruited? Find an aide. Find a sergeant. Find someone but not the noble. You saw a mul running loose and you know where he remains? Find the Borsail/Winrothol Sergeant again. You want to sell your silk, fluffy dress? Then speak to the noble.

All the workers already report to the noble and they'll make sure the noble knows. If he wants to speak to you, he'll have you summoned. And those servants are there for a reason. Approach the correct contact for your business.

[Anonymous]

Cenghiz, the only problem I have with your post, and it's a problem I have with many of the posts on this topic, is that people are so focused on propriety that they miss a critical fact: role play tends to be immensely more interesting when things go wrong.

Imagine this from the standpoint of everyone who is not you for a second.

What is going to be more intertaining: A brief and proper interlude where the random guy manages to ask the NPC guard about some minor and largely inconsequential event that causes a single interaction; or A brief and wholly improper event where a random guy manages to make a PC noble look foolish or feel completely out of place for several minutes of improvisation that leads to a ham-juggling competition, a noble soaked in ale, a templar and an innuendo about a tandu sausage, and a random guy being thrown forcefully into the street after having been lashed six times in the public square.

I know which one is going to be the most memorable.

Take Risks. That's what Armageddon RP should be about.

[Seeker]

So...what is it you want, exactly?  Free money?  Sociable nobles?  If you want interaction with a noble, there -are- going to be things to take into account.

I guess I want people to understand that, as in Marko's and davien's posts above, there are more interesting, less restricting ways to interact with the nobility, then the single "I am useful, use me" example that I commented on, Armaddict.

I also want the Nobility to consider that not every interaction with a commoner PC should necessarily end with the Noble acquiring a new disposable puppet.


Seeker

[Ava]

Imagine this from the standpoint of everyone who is not you for a second.

What is going to be more intertaining: A brief and proper interlude where the random guy manages to ask the NPC guard about some minor and largely inconsequential event that causes a single interaction; or A brief and wholly improper event where a random guy manages to make a PC noble look foolish or feel completely out of place for several minutes of improvisation that leads to a ham-juggling competition, a noble soaked in ale, a templar and an innuendo about a tandu sausage, and a random guy being thrown forcefully into the street after having been lashed six times in the public square.

It's entertaining for all and sundry, while it lasts. However...most people don't want to be lashed six times in the public square and have to move to the enemy city-state in order to have a successful career (because each PC represents a large percentage of the harrassable, non-virtual population).  If you're playing a stupid, bumbling commoner, that's fine; if you're playing an ordinarily smart commoner who wants to gain some small amount of wealth, power, and prestige...you're going to be very, very careful how and when you interact with nobles.

[A Different Noble]

For me.... I'm almost almost exclusively southern player. And the simplest and truest excuse I can come up with for not interacting with nobles, is... well, nobles are just scarier than the templarate.

1.) It's easier to find a templar (with the exception of a particularly social Fale). They actually enter the realm of the common masses. Nobles.. well, do not.

You aren't going to be finding many nobles visiting the Barrel - documentation tends to discourage them from hanging out there often. Lamentably, lots of commoner PCs don't seem to want to go anywhere else.

This is just personal opinion, but the Trader's Inn is still very much in the "realm of the common masses". If you're playing a character who wears silk (i.e. a senior aide, a senior crafter, a merchant) or an officer-level PC, you can hang out in the Trader's. It isn't a "nobles only" tavern and the NPCs there reflect that. It's also a cleaner and nicer atmosphere befitting people of decent station.  If nobles wanted a place all to themselves, then can (and do) visit their estates, the Arboretum, etc.

Tuluk doesn't have this problem as much because everyone uses the Sanctuary anyway. In Allanak it isn't that nobles are less visible as much as they're not visible where commoners like to tend to be.

Marko and davien made some pretty good points on what you can do for a noble and the fact that you don't always have to be added to their personal collection of tools. In fact sometimes I actually welcome the PCs who are looking for more independent sponsorship versus life employment, because sometimes you have everybody employed that you can possibly take, and hiring more people means you wouldn't have enough for them all to do.

Anyway, I hope that if this thread can do one thing it would be to dispel the illusion that all nobles are vicious, evil torturers who like to kill every commoner who dares speak to them. In either city there are plenty of ways to get involved, for better or for worse, for a PC's lifetime or just a small while. Nobles are usually somewhere near the center of political roleplay in either city, and that's an aspect of the game that can be quite fun, especially if you like getting caught up in big events.

[Cale_Knight]

I also want the Nobility to consider that not every interaction with a commoner PC should necessarily end with the Noble acquiring a new disposable puppet.

*slow clap*

[Anonymous]

It's entertaining for all and sundry, while it lasts. However...most people don't want to be lashed six times in the public square and have to move to the enemy city-state in order to have a successful career ...

"I don't want to get punished" "I don't want to go to jail" "I don't want to get enslaved, even temporarily." "I don't ever want anything -bad- to happen to my character"

What fun is that?  Really? The problem is that people are so worried about the perfect health of their perfect characters that they won't ever take any risks. This is what causes Tavernspotting.  

Your adrenaline never gets pumping from maxing your hemorrhoids at the bar and talking about meaningless nothings with your buddies. It gets pumping when your life is at risk. Let's not forget that you have no money invested in this character, and nothing that happens to this character reflects on you in real life. It's a character, and it should be considered to be disposable in the interest of creating an interesting story. Especially now that app turnaround for regular apps is so quick.

Now, again - an assassination attempt is not necessarily a death sentence. I am certain there are circles within both cities where something like this, even failed, would garner immense respect. But short of this, you can do so much without being given a death sentence.

I hope that if this thread can do one thing it would be to dispel the illusion that all nobles are vicious, evil torturers who like to kill every commoner who dares speak to them.

Ditto. It's all about knowing which ones to screw with, and which ones not to.

And by the way, getting lashed in the square for overstepping the bounds does not end your life in the city.

[bloodfromstone]

I don't want to get punished" "I don't want to go to jail" "I don't want to get enslaved, even temporarily." "I don't ever want anything -bad- to happen to my character"

What fun is that?

That, in all fairness, is not what Ava was saying. It is fun to have faults, and it is fun to play out mistakes. It is not fun to be killed outright for doing so. No, not all nobles are ready to kill at a moment's notice. Neither are all templars or sergeants or merchants. But some of them are, and some people lose the drive to play something like that out upon happening across one of them.

Personally, I've had attempts at playing up a character's flaws end in ultimatums. Stop doing X (and I'm not talking about spying or stealing) or you will be killed. Apparently no one in Zalanthas is a drunk, mentally unstable, or a coward. They are all ruthlessly pked upon getting employed. Ok, that sounded bitter, and I'm not really bitter. I'm just saying, from the perspective of the fully punishable, easily killed masses, doing something like the example stated can end in a swift, unsatisfactory death for a beloved and well thought out character.

[Anonymous kank with wings]

"I don't want to get punished" "I don't want to go to jail" "I don't want to get enslaved, even temporarily." "I don't ever want anything -bad- to happen to my character"

What fun is that?  Really? The problem is that people are so worried about the perfect health of their perfect characters that they won't ever take any risks. This is what causes Tavernspotting.

People are reward-driven. If there's a large chance of a large downside and a small chance of a (likely) small upside to a given plan, why should anyone follow through with it? Only out of desperation.

[Cenghiz]

Err.. To Davien... I always play 'average' characters. Average characters don't make really stupid things. They fear magickers - not befriend them. They fear and know the power of the nobles. They don't trust elves and dislike halfbreeds bla bla...

Such a commoner would not make a mistake speaking to a noble. Trust me. Things can go wrong, but no char of mine dives into the silt sea, attack a seasoned magicker or speak foul to a noble.

Though, I believe sometimes I should play an exceptional char who does not. Just... not yet.

[Aldiel]

Dude, nobles rock.  They aren't always as much fun to play, I think, so I give everyone who plays them props.  I'm not sure how to respond to this thread, because I really do try to bring nobility into my characters' roles, but maybe I can agree with the poster in saying that interaction with nobility is always fun; sometimes it is beneficial....  Other time, it is very dangerous, but it is always a load of fun and stress.  

[Tamarin]

Personally, I've always found that not giving a shit about losing your character heightens the fun factor when playing with a noble.

[LauraMars]

Personally, I've always found that not giving a shit about losing your character heightens the fun factor when playing with a noble.

Word.

[Malken]

"I don't want to get punished" "I don't want to go to jail" "I don't want to get enslaved, even temporarily." "I don't ever want anything -bad- to happen to my character"

What fun is that? Really?

I must be really strange, but it's great fun to me when a character I've put time in it to develop friendships, contacts, a background and a nifty description lives for many days of playtime.

[Melody]

I must be really strange, but it's great fun to me when a character I've put time in it to develop friendships, contacts, a background and a nifty description lives for many days of playtime.

I concur. I'm very slow at creating characters, and each one takes a lot of details and time. As much as I approve of permanent death, I don't really enjoy playing a different shallow character with three lines of description every day of the week because the 'risks'. It can be fun and exciting, but so is watching my character grow and develop. That said, I don't go out of my way to avoid nobles and templars, but I think a lot of other new players would also agree that it's very intimidating and quite fatal, especially as we are not familiar with a lot of etiquettes that our characters should know, but we as players might overlook.

[Moofassa]

Welcome to Zalanthas.



Nobles can act however they want to act, within certain boundaries, of course.

[bloodfromstone]

The thread is devoted to OOC concerns about playing with and having reasons to interact with nobles. I don't think anyone is saying that ICly it is unfair for a noble to kill PCs, do nothing but tavern-sit, and make cloaks out of babies. I'm not picking on you specifically Moofassa, but every time a thread like this starts up, a few "Zalanathas is harsh."s and "Welcome to Armageddon."s start to pop up, but that isn't at all what the thread is about.

[Moofassa]

It just seems to me, that there is far too much complaining when it comes to people playing nobles.

People seem to have alot of problems with how the nobles are interacting with the general populace, aka, commoners. I've never really seen a big problem with any noble. For the most part, most nobles I've seen have been played very well. If there is such a reoccuring problem, why is it that the immortals haven't intervened and done something? I don't believe the issue of playability should be superimposed over the issue of roleplaying a character.

If I wrote my noble to tavern sit, and do relatively nothing, that's what the immortals approved him to do, so that's generally what he'll do. Now, if I wrote him up to be a bloodthirsty scum bag, who enjoys to collect the left nipples of dwarven albino's during his spare time, that's what he's going to do.

Granted, I understand the issues dealing with nobles creating roleplay for other characters. However, I don't believe that a player, playing a noble should abandon his character (approved by the immortals) for the sake of Joe.Ispentayearwritingthischaracterup's happiness. Fuck that shit.

Now, I'm in a fairly bad mood, so this post is gonna sound.. shitty.

As for people worried about how to interact with a noble: Find out IC. Har har, I hate that answer too. However, if you take a step back and think about it, that's really what you should be doing. If you see a bunch of commoners going up to a noble, and getting their private parts thrown to Tek, maybe you should second guess going up and doing that exact same thing. As a general rule, EVERY noble and EVERY templar is approacheable, you simply need to figure out how.


Um. Yeah. I reiterate my apology, bad mood.

(I'll add, it pisses me off when nobles kill me too. But I understand.)

Players in power, I salute you. It isn't easy to work at playing.

[Anonymous kank with wings]

People aren't complaining about how nobles are being played. They're just replying to the basic question as to why commoners don't initiate roleplay with nobles more often.

If your character approaches a noble (or a templar), he's taking a very substantial risk of humiliation, pain, loss and even death. That's how it is. Naturally, under these conditions, most people would ICly avoid nobles and templars like the plague unless they had a very compelling reason to approach them.

[Anonymous]

Being able to approach a noble/templar and being able to hang out in the same place then in the south is why i play almost exclusively in the north.

While just roleplay is good i've always thought Roleplay and Gameplay are better so should i ever choose to play a noble i would probably be working on getting more powerful/richer and influencial through RP means..if you have a goal your going to need people around you to achieve it ...and BOOM instant and fun RP.

That said its obvious to me this is not the play style of everyone here..some people don't have goal or give a damn whether their PC lives or doesn't...some people play just for the hell of emoting and this is completely alright but for me...hmm...how can i put this...I prefer a good movie to a sitcom...just like some people prefer west wing or 24 to say family guy.

I find getting my full developed and detailed PC in a nice juicy plot and storyline where permadeath is always hanging over its head..mmmMMM oh so much more fun and enjoyable for me then getting a 2 week PC tortured to death by a templar for being stupid..though coincidently the ending are sometimes similar, its the reason that is different    Usually having some small ambition/goal helps alot in getting myself enrolled in a good plot.

Sorry to derail the thread a bit but basically this is not to say you 'care' whether your PC lives or not but playing them with a little ambition/goal/ or just without a deathwish does have its RP rewards. I've always found that PC's with a bit of ambition even if its just to secure a meal for the next day has an easier time approaching noble or just in general oocly coming up with IC excuses for doing almost anything 'fun' or worthwhile there a PC who is there just to be there.