Re: Connection solutions (from Ask the Staff)

[Hymwen]

I know you didn't ask for my opinion, but I think that what it takes to reach MMORPG status is a fee to play the game. I personally wouldn't mind paying 10 dollars a month to play Armageddon, but I know that a lot of people don't want to, and I think it would steer the game in the wrong direction. I hope the connection issues become better, but apart from when it happens during an HRPT or the rare once in a while where it happens several times in a day or the MUD is down for hours, I think it's pretty good and more than acceptable for a free game. The staff are doing a fantastic job and spending a lot of time to give us a game that is top quality, and from previous experience, MUDs that turn pay-to-play status tend to develop a negative atmosphere and a "we pay for this game so you better give us what we want!" tone.

[Larrath]

Arm can't go pay-to-play because it would go against the DIKU license.  Well, it could and would probably avoid any legal consequences, but it would just be immoral and very very crappy.

There's a MUD that already did that, turn pay-to-play (pay-for-perks in that specific case) from a DIKU-based MUD, and they're notorious and vastly hated by the mudding community.
I won't mention their name, but you may have seen the backlash on the Top MUD Sites forums after they were added into the list - and were eventually, thankfully, removed.

All that said, I'd love to see Ginka and its mechanical appendages grow to Cthulhuian size and power, though my own means are a bit meager at this time.
Perhaps one day, after I join a major corporation and use my Zalanthan training to become the CEO in ten years flat...heh.

[Halaster]

Just a note, we have said through the years that ArmageddonMUD will never, ever become pay-to-play.   We accept donations, anonymously, through the Community links, but that's it.  No one is solicited or asked to donate.

Having been on staff 12.5 years, I can say that our player numbers are currently at an all-time high, however, not by much.   If it's taken this many years to maybe get double our average numbers, then I have a feeling it may never get incredibly high.  Why?  A lot of reasons, but I think the biggest is because it's a text-based game.  This is even more noticable in today's age of MMORPG's that have great graphics (hell, I love them and have played a few myself).

Do I want to have hundreds if not thousands of people on?  You bet I do - that'd be a dream come true.  I'll even do my part to help us get there.  But I'm also being realistic in saying I don't genuinely expect it'll happen (I hope I'm proven wrong one day!).

Just my opinions.

[Anonymous]

Furthermore, pay to play is not a guarantee of network stability - something that is, as far as I know, out of the scope of staff control.

I've played numerous MMORPGs where I've tried to log on and couldn't play because of lag, bad connection, netsplit, etc.

If you really want to pay to play for an RPI mud, try out Eternal City. That's what pay to play will get you.  Arm's still more fun, AND it's free.

However, if you do like the game, and the staff is willing, I see no issue with voluntary donation to maintain server hardware, monthly internet connect fees, and the like.

But in today's realm of shiny pictures and graphics snobs, I would find it hard to believe that it would be easier to expand the existent player base by charging for a text-based game.  Without knowing what it would take to convert it from its current glory to something graphically playable, I don't know this would be worth it, even for an extra $2,000 a month.

[Xygax]

Furthermore, pay to play is not a guarantee of network stability - something that is, as far as I know, out of the scope of staff control.

You can, in fact, pay for network stability.  But it's expensive.  

-- X

[Ritley.]

I tell you what guys.. I'm going to try something. It might take a couple of weeks, but will guarantee almost over 100 players more if this works out the way I want it too.

[John]

I tell you what guys.. I'm going to try something. It might take a couple of weeks, but will guarantee almost over 100 players more if this works out the way I want it too.

No hacking into Achaea and shutting it down

[Ritley]

I tell you what guys.. I'm going to try something. It might take a couple of weeks, but will guarantee almost over 100 players more if this works out the way I want it too.

No hacking into Achaea and shutting it down

Damn.....



Although, this was my idea:

Like I said in Enriah's groupie thread, I've got a friend who owns a fairly famous website, which thousands of people visit everyday. If the next day I go to tae kwon do, I can persuade (force) him to advertise Arm, and even, maybe, put another link to the site which is all about Arm.

No promises....

But, I'll do my best.

He's a very good friend to me, perhaps one of my only -proper- friends, so to speak.

[John]

Aaah, good stuff! Good luck Ritley. Hopefully it works

[Ritley]

Aaah, good stuff! Good luck Ritley. Hopefully it works

Yeah, I'll do my fucking best. I will.. I'll have to wait until thursday to see him though.


Edit: And staffers.. if I do manage to get over a hundred players for us, then I expect lot's of luvin' and kisses.

[Zhaky]

1. Im really glad that arm isn't a pay to play, cause not everyone lives in USA and have a valuta that matches it, fx me, 10 dollars will be almost two hours work, and I earn the minimum of what is allowed.

2. I don't think arm was made to get as many playes as the big mmorpgs, and I think it is alright that we aren't that many players, cause I've already experienced how crappy the connectipn can get.

3. I have played many free as well as paid mmorpgs with a good graphich and all, but I admit that non of them had as much RP in them as arm has, and besides that, I think that it is cool that it is only textbased, cause my fantasy is way better than any computer-graphic.

Armageddon ROXER  

[Bogre]

If something as shitty as Achea or Aardwolf can get 500 players on at one time, I see no reason why we can't get there.

And remember, the average number of players online only represents a fraction of the entire playerbase...so there might be 200 players online to interact with, but 2000 more active characters...which is what the mud really needs...more active characters, then every clan could have its ranks filled, and there would be tons of independents and tribals too. Mmmm.

[Larrath]

The difference is that many of the larger MUDs cater to the lowest common denominators - in other words, they build their MUD in a way that everyone can enjoy it; casual players, intensive players, social players, raging PKillers, roleplayers and anti-roleplayers and people that just like running scripts.

To do that, permadeath has to be softened (multiple deaths or easy resurrections), levels probably need to be added, karma has to be made much easier for people wanting to play mages, we'd probably need a global channel or two and the creatures around the cities would have to be made easier so the real dangers are only around if you purposely look for them.
And that's not even mentioning Recall and, worst of all, limiting and downsizing the roleplay so the non-roleplayers can fit in.

Character approval would probably need to go out, too, and the magick system might need simplification.  And don't expect on keeping the game secrets secret for very long with such a diverse playerbase.


Arm caters to a niche (heavy-duty roleplayers) within a niche (mudding as a whole), so it's not really possible to compete against Achaea or Aardwolf.  It's not that they're better, they just appeal to more people.
Think about it like pizza - almost anyone would eat an onion pizza, but pineapple pizzas are only consumed by the select few.

[Morgenes]

Not to mention, many of those muds allow multiplaying.  Not hard to get to 500 when each player is playing 5 chars

[Anonymous]

Xygax -

You can pay for more stable network - but it's still not guaranteed to be perfect.  There's nothing stopping some guy from nailing an important cable and causing a total disconnect, or from someone ddosing a major backbone with a new virus....

It's happened.

[Xygax]

You can pay for more stable network - but it's still not guaranteed to be perfect.  There's nothing stopping some guy from nailing an important cable and causing a total disconnect, or from someone ddosing a major backbone with a new virus.

That's why you pay for redundant trunks through different providers in different locales.  Believe me, I have spent a lot of time thinking about network uptime for games at my Real Job.  But yeah, if a disgruntled someone runs through your datacenter with a shovel, your network is likely to be less than "perfect".  That's not the issue we're dealing with (unless Saikun is more disgruntled than he appears to be).

At any rate, I didn't say you could pay for perfection, I said you could pay for stability.  

-- X

ps - Referring back to your original post, "netsplits" are an IRC term, not a general network topology one, and so not an issue for Arm.

[Anonymous]

Fair enough.

May I amend my original statement to say "within reasonable cost"? =)

[Xygax]

That I definitely agree with, and was what I was aiming for in my original Ask the Staff post.  Running a game like EQ is exceptionally costly, and basically Arm is doing the very best it can with its budget.

And we're not going pay-for-play.

-- X

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Xygax wrote:

And we're not going pay-for-play.

*Shudders*
Thank God. Even if I could pay for it, I wouldn't. I love Arm, but if it went pay-for-play, three things would happen:
1. A sizeable chunk of the playerbase would leave.
2. We'd suffer even more accusations of elitism.
3. You might think the quality of RP would increase, due to "weeding out" the twinks, but trust me, it wouldn't. Paying for something creates a sense of entitlement. Eventually you'll get people saying, "hey, I pay $10 a month for this game, so I should get to have fun the way I want. So let me spam-kick gith!"
Pay-for-play Armageddon would be an incredible tragedy. It'd be like hollowing the pyramids of Gizeh for a mall, or something.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I never want to see Armageddon pay for play. I hope that never entered the air of what I posted. I'm simply interested in seeing the network stable for things like RPTs and the like, and seeing the machine stable enough to support these players.

The machine seems to be no trouble at all, considering that the server runs on only one of the available four CPUs in the Ginka Tower. If it ever got to be more of a load, the machine could easily handle it using another of the CPUs in tandem with the current, as I'll assume that at least one if not all of those other CPUs are doing nothing at all.

On that note, what is the approximate monthly cost of redundant network systems and so forth and so on? We wouldn't need an EQ quality system, most likely, but three or four routes would probably make a huge difference.

If Ginka's specific connection costs are concealed under the NDA, can anyone tell me what one would normally run for a like-populated game? Or do I need to go find out about this on my own?

[Anonymous]

Our company paid something like $1.5k per month.

But that was a greater bandwidth (by far) than I could assume Arm would use.

I'm not even sure if you can get it in smaller bandwidths...

Can you spend $1,600 a month and get redundant links with "high" bandwidth  from joe-random ISP?

edited because I realize I missed a decimal point =/

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

For what, precisely?

[Anonymous]

dedicated fiber.

[Halaster]

At the company I work at, I'm in charge of the I.T. dept as well as all purchasing, etc.

We have a 5Mb/5Mb dedicated fiber connection - $800 a month.
A 10Mb/10Mb dedicated fiber connection is $1200 a month.

Time Warner.

Our uptime has been good - down maybe twice in 12 months, and then not for long.

Not bad prices, for a business.  Obviously way more than we would afford or pay for Ginka.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

5 MB doesn't seem that good. For that matter, neither does 10MB. Of course, I am thinking of those things in terms of computers, and not so much connections.

What does that mean, in dumb-ass' terms? What would a 1MB connection do for us, or does such a thing even exist?