Tulukies Heading to Allanak

[Proud Tuluki]

How can Tulukies travel to a city full of magickers when

Despite the fact that the vast majority of Tuluki citizens were not alive during the initial destruction of the city- state at the hands of powerful elementals, the burning fear and hatred for the chaos wreaked by these creatures has instilled an inimitable hatred for all things magick within the hearts and souls of the population

Now despite this, many still do (virtually, NPC wise and PC wise) and rightly so. So how do you get around the mindset of the city allowing magickers to walk around and having Templars who often do magickal things themselves and are probably just glorified magickers?

Also, how do you get around the fact that all Tulukies hate southrons?

[Cenghiz]

I don't know.. players playing the exception? I myself hate playing the exception, but still one merchant of mine could go to Allanak for trade.. He would avoid staying far too long, but he would go.

[ShaLeah]

How can Tulukies travel to a city full of magickers when

Despite the fact that the vast majority of Tuluki citizens were not alive during the initial destruction of the city- state at the hands of powerful elementals, the burning fear and hatred for the chaos wreaked by these creatures has instilled an inimitable hatred for all things magick within the hearts and souls of the population

Now despite this, many still do (virtually, NPC wise and PC wise) and rightly so. So how do you get around the mindset of the city allowing magickers to walk around and having Templars who often do magickal things themselves and are probably just glorified magickers?

Also, how do you get around the fact that all Tulukies hate southrons?

Duh - everyone knows we travellers are really spies. Where you been???

[ale six]

People -shouldn't- be getting around the fact. People should hate the opposing cities and everyone from them.

I don't like the trends of seeing people ride back and forth between cities for "trade" or other rationalised reasons and would really like to see more xenophobia worked into the game environment. Maybe if NPC merchants would make prices less favorable to non-citizens in both cities it would help it some.

If really wish northerners in Allanak or a southerners in Tuluk would carefully examine their reasons for being there, besides simple profit-driven issues like wood sells for more in the south and obsidian for more in the north etc. I wish there were more risk involved.

Luir's and Red Storm are different cases, and so I won't really extend this to people from there. With the ability to change your accent, this has all been lessened somewhat, too. But if you're playing a PC who comes from 'nak and Tuluk, I think you should both hate the opposite city and be treated like dirt there. The only way you should even get off partly okay is if you're working for someone like a Merchant House -- and even then it shouldn't be a free pass.

[Proud Tuluki]

With the ability to change your accent, this has all been lessened somewhat, too.

That's another thing. Would Tuluki's actively seek to hide their caste tattoos to avoid standing out in Allanak?

[Marauder Moe]

With the ability to change your accent, this has all been lessened somewhat, too.

That's another thing. Would Tuluki's actively seek to hide their caste tattoos to avoid standing out in Allanak?

Would your character expect a traveling 'Nakki to hide a jade cross tattoo?  Would you expect Allanak to be more forgiving or less forgiving than Tuluk of symbols of opposing nationalism?  I'd say probably you would try to hide it, but it depends on how foolish/brave/proud your character is.

[Malifaxis]

One must realize that for a lot of people coin and greed are by far stronger than hate.  I also think that there are too many people who decide, on a lark and a whim, to go to TuluNak in order to buy low sell high on woodsidian, but I can understand why some of them do.

Many also have no choice.  Merchant House Muckity says go, and they do it.  They may not like it, but they do it, because they're being paid to do it.


Personally I think any smart Tuluki would take extravagent measures to conceal those tats.

[Jherlen]

With the ability to change your accent, this has all been lessened somewhat, too.

That's another thing. Would Tuluki's actively seek to hide their caste tattoos to avoid standing out in Allanak?

If they were going to be in Allanak anyway and wanted to avoid the danger and attention, it's probably a smart thing to do.

A foolhardily proud Tuluki might not, but if he wants to flaunt how northern he is in Allanak... he may not last long.

[Gaare]

- I do not think today's understanding of nationalism is as same as it is in Zalanthas.

- Unless a group of people begin to live together to face the harsh conditions against them by goverment, militia etc., I do not think people care much about being proud (and adapting into new society) when they are thirsty or dying from hunger.

[UnderSeven]

I think more should be considered in the 'playing the exception bit'.  

GUESS what, you're all playing the exception.  A majority of people in the game and by majority I mean 99.9 are poorer then dirt, work all their lives harder than our chars will ever work, are less educated, hob nob with less important people, probably never have a sid long enough to put in a nenyuk account...

Seriously, you already play the exception.  That's a real poor arguement considering if you didn't play the exception, you'd probably not play at all.  As far as allanak and tuluk and vice versa, I think it's perfectly fine rping hating something and still having some minor involement with it.  Some people hate templarate, elves, ect.  Yeah, people often have to live with elements they despise, a northerner going into Allanak might hate everyone around them, or might just hate the magickers, or the templarate.  That's for your char to decide.  The majority of tuluki's maybe couldn't stand allanak, but the majority probably couldn't afford not to go to their job digging clay long enough to travel there in the first place.

[Cuusardo]

Some people are so driven to making a profit that they either put aside those hatreds, or at least pretend to.  Greed is a powerful thing.

[bloodfromstone]

Another thing to keep in mind is that there are some legitimate playability concerns in place. It's pretty easy to end up in need of deserting your clan, if you stay involved in a lot of personal or political matters. Most clans want you to stay there forever and ever, and, if you don't, will kill you or pay people to kill you. Staying in the same City-State as your former clanmates after deserting would be pretty dumb, so you decide to hop ship. Red Storm is the place to go for this business, ICly. This is what I did. Red Storm also bored me completely out of my skull. Luir's? Might be a little better, but you're also far more likely to run into your former Sergeant and his pack of angry underlings. Tuluk has players to interact with, and it doesn't have your former clanmates. Same for Allanak, if things are happening vice versa.
Also, sometimes things happen despite a PC's best intentions. Not everyone breaks clan oath or tries to kill a noble to get put on the 'kill on sight' list. Some of them are just pickpockets or shit-talkers that could, in all reality, hide out in another part of town until things die down and then next slick-fingered, bad-mouthing 'rinthi becomes the target, but we all know this cannot happen IG.

Should they become hunted in their home for either of these reasons or more, a PC would be able to run and hide in some outskirts village or down to Red Storm or hole in at a trading post somewhere, but some of us dislike solo-rping. Next time I desert or get a bullseye painted on me, I'm running to the opposing City-State, regardless of xenophobia and all that.

[Forty Winks]

Huh, I don't get it. There's scrimages between the armies of the city-states often enough, and yet PCs are still willing to assume that it's safer to run/trade at the opposing city-state than make some living in Liur's/Redstorm? Not to mention the fact that your Tuluki will have to face the fact that there's an ENTIRE QUARTER filled with MAGICKERS, who are sanctioned to cast their spells within their temples. If ever there's an exception, it'll be only under the most rarest of occurances, I would think.

Not to mention the fact that, not only will you be suspect the moment people see you within an opposing city-state, but the fact that you shouldn't possibly be able to get a better deal/trade than within your own city-state due to your accent/tattoos/clothes, and other such instances. I would think the prices for selling things to a known foreigner would be much higher than to a normal citizen, not to mention the prices merchants would be willing to pay for your own wares. And, if you don't like the prices these merchants give you, I wouldn't be surprised if you're accused of stealing or cheating or whatnot.

Of course, with the current coded market, the NPC merchants aren't prejudiced for citizen/noncitizens, but that still shouldn't be the only reason for going to an opposing city-state unless it's apart of a neccesary clan assignment.

And even if your independant is going for the so called 'greed', your character should consider if it's worth the risk involved in travelling for so long a distance, with the numerous dangers that (should/are) along the road, the price for water, mount, food for the travel, etc. And that's without having even arrived at your destination. Though, once again, the code doesn't really support that too much.  :wink:

On an off-note, I really think there should be more raiding instances along the North Road. Perhaps the halflings being opened up will help with this somewhat.  :roll:  I do recall an instance abit back of a wagon being ambushed by halflings. Kekeke.

[Forty Winks]

Another thing to keep in mind is that there are some legitimate playability concerns in place. It's pretty easy to end up in need of deserting your clan, if you stay involved in a lot of personal or political matters. Most clans want you to stay there forever and ever, and, if you don't, will kill you or pay people to kill you. Staying in the same City-State as your former clanmates after deserting would be pretty dumb, so you decide to hop ship. Red Storm is the place to go for this business, ICly. This is what I did. Red Storm also bored me completely out of my skull. Luir's? Might be a little better, but you're also far more likely to run into your former Sergeant and his pack of angry underlings. Tuluk has players to interact with, and it doesn't have your former clanmates. Same for Allanak, if things are happening vice versa.
Also, sometimes things happen despite a PC's best intentions. Not everyone breaks clan oath or tries to kill a noble to get put on the 'kill on sight' list. Some of them are just pickpockets or shit-talkers that could, in all reality, hide out in another part of town until things die down and then next slick-fingered, bad-mouthing 'rinthi becomes the target, but we all know this cannot happen IG.

Should they become hunted in their home for either of these reasons or more, a PC would be able to run and hide in some outskirts village or down to Red Storm or hole in at a trading post somewhere, but some of us dislike solo-rping. Next time I desert or get a bullseye painted on me, I'm running to the opposing City-State, regardless of xenophobia and all that.

About someone deserting their clan and going to an opposing city-state. There would have to be considerable reason why someone would desert, and I wouldn't think this would be a common occurance. And even if you desert, the most possible reason would be due to your character afraid for his/her life due to his assignments, or some great revelation regarding the purpose of his life...  :roll:  I don't see why they would flee to an opposing city-state rather than the desert or redstorm where there would be just as many dangers, likely more, unless they were a traitor to begin with.

As for thieves and criminals, there's plenty of places within their own city-state to hide it out without having to enter into the territory of other gangs and crime families, in an opposing city-state, to say the least.

[Forty Winks]

Next time I desert or get a bullseye painted on me, I'm running to the opposing City-State, regardless of xenophobia and all that.

If you come down to the gist of the matter, the most likely reason someone would want to go to another city-state would be for OOC reasons. Either they don't want to solo-rp out in an outskirt, or are bored with their current role and would like to see what's going on in the opposing city-state.There's not much you can say about this, seeing that they would be willing to go out of character to satisfy their out of character curiousity in the first place. In that case, the only thing I could hope for is for them to at least experience some of what the other city-state does to foreign strangers they despise.  :roll:

[Marauder Moe]

I dunno, with Luirs and Red Storm being somewhat neutral, as a traitor I'd be afraid that city-sponsored assassins would be more likely to reach me there than in the opposing city.  I'd be worried that the local law would be more easily bribed too.

[MorganChaos]

Gloves and a collar will work wonders. If a Tuluki really, really needed to blend in, like as a spy, they might scar their hands so badly the tattoo looks like a yellowish patch of skin, and get another tattoo around their neck that covered the band. When they came home they could get the star on their palms and the band above or below the new tat, or on the head or shoulder or whatever else the accepted places were.

Last time I was obviously northern and Tuluki in Allanak, I nearly got arrested, got banned from the Trader's, and a few other things that are IC events still in living memory for PCs. I only was saved because by the time the guard caught up with me, I was in the stable and had my erdlu hitched. The dude looked me and the erdlu over, told me to get out of Nak and stay away from the Trader's, and left.

[jmordetsky]

Traveling to another city is a great way to make big bucks in a hotter market.

Everyone wants money.

[bloodfromstone]

If you come down to the gist of the matter, the most likely reason someone would want to go to another city-state would be for OOC reasons.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't think there is anything wrong with doing that, rather than sitting in Red Storm, emoting with your spice sifter and your kank. Some people are more hardcore than me about this stuff, I suppose, but I'd as soon not play as to interact with no other PCs.

[Angela Christine]

Maybe you just aren't that patriotic.  Some people wouldn't want to contaminate themselves by setting foot onto soil controlled by the enemy state.   Others may not care so much.

If your main problem is magick, as yourself how personally terrified your character is.  The tame elementalists of Allanak can't be all that powerful, or else Allanak would have won the war of liberation.  Not only did Allanak lose, they didn't even inflict much structural damage on the city during or after the war.  Long ago the old city was destroyed by magick, but no one claims that magick came from Allanak.  There are crazy stories that Tektolnes once buried a whole city in sand, but nobody really knows where that city was, and he certainly didn't try anything like that with Tuluk.  Wild magick is dangerous, but what Allanak has seems a little toothless.  If your character is fairly young (say under 30) and has a bit of an adventurous streak they might be willing to risk it.  What happens on that trip, assuming they survive, will determine whether they are willing to ever risk it again.  If while she is there she gets the impression that the mages are mostly confined to one quarter, and your character never sees any elementalists or magick performed, then she may decide that they aren't any more dangerous than gith, scarabs and Templars.  If she is harassed by a mage outside the city, or she witnesses a southern Templar performing magick, or she seems to bump into obvious elementalists with the matching robes and everything everywhere she goes, then she may decide that no amount of coin is worth it and never return.  Let her actual experiences mold her attitude.



* * *


Travelling between the cities is dangerous.  I've probably died more than a dozen times while traveling between Tuluk, Luir's and Allanak.  On the roads, off the roads, through the tablelands, the steppes or the red desert, alone or with a group, it is dangerous no matter how you do it.  I've never died in a city just for being in the wrong city, but my characters are generally pretty cautious inside the cities.  I don't think it needs to be made any more dangerous than it already is.


Their ought to be interaction between the cities, they aren't supposed to be iso clans.  Personally I would be deliriously happy if the diplomats of the world organized an official cease-fire and moved into cold-war mode.  (NOTE: an official cease fire does not preclude "unofficial" skirmishes by people not in uniform, nor does it prevent the agreement being ended by a surprise attack or preemptive retaliation once one side thinks they have the means to crush the other).  There would be an exchange of diplomats/hostages.  These people would be honoured but hated guests in the opposing city, which is a role ripe with potential.  If you want to Wow the Allanaki Ambassador, give 'em part of the old Renolte estate* as their embassy, then see if Allanak can come up with anything half so nice in return, and then snicker at them when they can't .  There would be a little more travel between the cities, which means that much more opportunity for barroom brawls.  Then the local law has the headache of supporting local bully boys, or the annoying foreigners who just happen to work at the embassy.

This would also open up the possibility of negotiating for exchanges of information, goods, and prisoners.  Right now if someone steals a Borsail's ring and runs away to Tuluk you are out of luck.  With diplomatic ties you could attempt to negotiate/bribe the Tuluk authorities to arrest the miscreant and return him, and possibly the ring as well -- even though he has committed no crime in Tuluk.  Having a permanent presence in the opposing city also makes it much easier and more useful to use spies and assassins.  Instead of telling your assassin to go try to kill some soldiers, maybe a Templar or noble if you get the chance, and generally make trouble you can tell them to go after the specific target that will best serve your interests.

You could have specific enemies in the opposing city, rather than hating them all indiscriminately.  For example, with greater trade House Oash and whatever House run the Renolte Vineyards come into competition.  Not to the point where one could actually drive the other out of business, but there will be some market for "exotic" wines from the other side of the world.  Oash might want to sabotage the northern vineyards.  !Renolte might want to sabotage the Oash ocotillo fields.  Damaging the opposing crop would help to protect your market at home, and slightly increase demand in the foreign market.



*Just part of the Renolte Estate, definitely not the whole thing.  The guards on the gate would remain loyal members of the Sun Legions, and the would admit anyone clanned "Allanak diplomats" and also any Tuluk Templar, and probably also Tuluk Nobles and members of the Legions (possibly even family members of the Great Merchant Houses).  The House would be the embassy, with the ground floor forming the semi-public rooms of embassy, and the other floors forming the private quarters for embassy staff.  Allanak Soldiers would only be allowed inside the house itself, the grounds would be patrolled by Tuluk soldiers.  The grounds and gardens might become an exclusive upper crust cafe (the sort of place the Sanctuary could be but isn't) a place for important people to negotiate deals away from the riff-raff.  The stables would be the kind that use tickets rather than loose animals, and would be accessible both to embassy staff and visitors, the stablehand would be Tuluki.  Other features of the old estate might be put to use or walled off.  Both embassies would have carefully regulated and negotiated limits on how many soldiers are allowed in the embassy, and how many armed guards the embassy staff are allowed to take with them outside the embassy.


It wouldn't soften the world, or make things nice nice.  In fact, more interaction would greatly increase the possibilities for conflict.  It is hard to nurse a burning hate for people you've never seen, and who haven't done any significant harm to your people in your entire lifetime.



Angela Christine

[bloodfromstone]

That's pretty hot stuff, AC. I like it.

[naatok]

My character travels between the cities to meet hot chicks.
There is simply nothing more important than that.  Including
evil magickers and unreasoning fear thereof.

:twisted:

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I beg the Staff to take a very close look at AC's idea. That is absolute brilliance.

[Cale_Knight]

AC's idea is fantastic. Please don't toss it away with a typical "be the change you want to see" dismissal.

[Cenghiz]

Did AC evet blubber nonsense in GDB? Of course her idea is brilliant as always. I totally vote for such a change.

[Empress]

I beg the Staff to take a very close look at AC's idea. That is absolute brilliance.

I second that!

[Ktavialt]

I beg the Staff to take a very close look at AC's idea. That is absolute brilliance.

Ditto, so long as the staff doesn't see an IC reason as to why it wouldn't
ever happen. I mean, you ain't gonna see a southern templar visit Tuluk,
but -perhaps- a southern (junior) noble.

[Maybe42or54]

And you know Borsail wants to get rid of atleast a few of its kin without opennly executing them.

[bloodfromstone]

Yes, god, yes. That's the sexiest idea AC has ever had.

[Yang]

The trouble with making pacts with the devil is that you don't need to say 'yes' to get screwed.

[Synthesis]

I don't think Allanak and Tuluk could reach a Cold War state of affairs until Tek and Muk reached the point of mutually assured destruction.

Right now, I'm guessing they're more at the level of mutually assured nullifcation...each can repel the other's attack, but that's it.  And I'm fairly sure neither one ultimately cares for their city-state, beyond the point where it cements their power.

These guys don't talk to each other because there's only a limited amount of suckable life-force in the world, and in their rush to become the next Dragon-level wielder of power, they want all of that energy available for their sole use.

The only way I can see Noble Houses getting together and doing diplomacy is if an end-result was the overthrow of both Tek and Muk in one world-spanning rebellion event.  Sure, diplomacy might be cool, and it might generate a bunch of plots and whatnot, but it just isn't possible given the current state of Known-World affairs.

Now, if there were some immensely powerful otherworldly force or being from outside the Known World with Dragon-level power, who could be repulsed -only- by the combined efforts of both Tek and Muk...then the two might set aside their differences to deal with it.  They certainly wouldn't bury the hatchet, but they might say "Hey, ya know...we're both gonna die here, bud." "...Hmm...okay...let's do this thing."